(An Interview given to Mr Kostas Karaiskos, editor of the Greek weekly
«Antifonitis» on Partition, the Rise of Jews in Russia, and the duty to
resist Zionism) 

Q: Dear Mr. Shamir, after working for so many years as a writer and
journalist, a day came and you surprised all people by your daring,
heretic point of view. What had really happened? How can an established
Jewish writer speak openly about racist Israel, the right of the
Palestinians to resist and return, the American crimes in Iraq etc?
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A: It is not strange that in the critical moment I stood by my adoptive
country, the Holy Land, this delightful and charming sister of Hellas,
so similar to Peloponnesus or Crete, the living temple of God, for it
was destroyed before our eyes by the mad forces of Sharon. It is strange
I kept quiet until recently. But the instinct of self-preservation makes
cowards of us all, and besides, Man is optimistic by nature. As long as
the child does not cry, we do not pay much attention to his discomfort.
As long as the native Palestinians were quiet, one thought: "Well,
probably they can manage, and the country can manage". 

But the Intifada was a sign that these extremely peaceful and patient
people are pushed into slow death, and with them Palestine is going for
good. I felt that every bullet shot by the Israeli Army kills my
brothers, and every torched olive tree, every razed house, every
demolished Church damage the very fabric of our existence. It does not
make sense to live if our earth is destroyed, and that is true
everywhere. Just objections or critique were not sufficient anymore. 

If I were younger, maybe I would join the fighters of Jenin standing
fast at assault of the armoured monsters. But writing is also a form of
warfare. A writer can emulate a fighter by disregarding mortal danger,
by putting his goal above self-preservation. Later I discovered that
this war of words is good not only for Palestine, but for my soul as
well. Thus, the struggle for Palestine became a spiritual quest for me
and for many others.
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Q: Your thesis about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is that it can be
ended only by the construction of a unified state, with equality for all
its citizens. Do you believe that this is more realistic than the two
states framework? Which could be the steps for the solution you propose?
--------------------------------------------------------------- 

A: Judging by your question, there are separate Israel and Palestine,
while Shamir wishes to unite them. But it is not the case. We have 'one
state' and practically always had it. Palestine was partitioned for a
very short time, from 1948 to 1967, but before and after this break we -
the different communities of Palestine - live together in one beautiful
country between Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. It can't be
divided, for it is too small and people live in close quarters with each
other. Moreover, without Palestinians, Palestine dies. 

Like Cyprus before 1974, we are still one country, and the idea of
partition of Palestine is as wrong as that of Cyprus partition. Now,
when the communities of Cyprus try to reconcile, we should not promote
partition of Palestine. We must learn from others' errors: the partition
of Cyprus brought no blessing to the Cypriots, and we should not try it
here. The enormous tragedy of Greek - Turkish partition and transfers is
a living proof it was a wrong way to solve the problem. 

Whenever I travel in the Eastern Mediterranean, I deeply regret that
there are no Greeks in Smyrna, no Turks in Thessalonica. In
Constantinople, Hagia Sophia and Hagia Irini still remember their
Orthodox Past, and the mosques in Rhodes bewail their glory. This
tragedy is still with us, for the Greeks were an important and leading
element in the Ottoman Empire, this successor of the Byzantines. The
Turks were soldiers and shepherds, the Greeks represented state and
trade. There is a coin minted in 1455 in Constantinople; its one side is
inscribed with legend 'Mehmet, Sultan of the Faithful' in Arabic, and
the reverse side is inscribed in Greek, 'Mehmet, the Emperor of the
Orthodox'. The Ottoman Empire was like this coin, and under the Turkish
warriors and Greek ministers it kept peace and prosperity of the
Mediterranean. The West envied its successes and undermined it. 

From the Sack of Constantinople in 1204 to Smyrna in 1921, the
imperialist West tried to disintegrate our beautiful Eastern
Mediterranean and eventually they made it. Out of Greek-Turkish
partition, came Mustafa Ataturk, and his policies (for a while) broke
the spirit of the Turks, turned them into an American tool, forbade them
to worship God and even wear national dress. Greece was subjugated by
the British forces for many years. Greeks were the real force in the
Empire, while in their independent state they serve Western tourists. 

Looking back, one understands that the partition of the Empire was a
costly mistake that we all still pay for. Partition of Cyprus, partition
of Ireland, partition of India - so many partitions promoted by the
imperialist West, and all of them lead to perdition. It is enough. In my
view, partition of Palestine should be avoided, while the real problems
attended by promoting equality, democracy, love of our country and its
spirit. Maybe non-partition of Palestine will be the turning point for
mankind.
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--- Q: Vladimir Guzinski, the Russian media baron, was arrested in
Athens and is expected to be deported to Russia. Other fabulously rich
members of Jewish community are also prosecuted (Berezovsky,
Khodorkovski) and others continue to keep good relations with Putin and
authorities (Abramovich, Chubais). You have been born and you have
worked in Russia, you know the country and its culture. How do you
explain the unrestricted power which was gathered in Jewish hands after
1989? Do you believe that Putin is trying to put some limits to their
power or he is just rearranging the scene?
-------------------------------------------------------- 

A: Rise of the Jews in post-Soviet Russia is one of the most bewildering
phenomena. Six out of seven wealthiest men of Russia are Jews, and they
are influential in media, banking, in control over natural resources. It
is not easy to explain why a Jewish accountant from Tashkent, Chernoy,
with monthly salary of one hundred Rouble, became the owner of Russian
aluminium industry. 

One explanation lies in the religious sphere. The Orthodox Christians
are ashamed of being rich. They remember the comparative size of a
needle and a camel. They understand that riches rarely come to honest
men. They are ashamed of power, for they were told: the last ones here
will be among the first there. This quality of Orthodox Christianity was
partly inherited by Communism, and that is why Communism was successful
in Russia. (It would succeed in Greece, too, but England crushed
Communists in post-war Greece). 

The unreconstructed Jews and the Calvinists have no such misgivings.
They seek power for the Old Testament says, “be a master to your
brothers, and they will bow to you”. They believe wealth is a sign of
being blessed. That is why they are ready to grasp all there is. On a
less religious note, I shall quote Victor Pelevin, a modern Russian
writer: “In tumultuous times, an unscrupulous and cunning man manages
better than an honest one for he quickly adapts to the changes. At a
certain level of dishonesty and cunning, the man foresees the oncoming
changes well in advance, and thus he adapts even faster. The worst
rogues adapt themselves to the changes before these changes actually
occur. These worst rogues are the engine of change, for they do not
foresee the future, but they form it. These unscrupulous, shameless,
pushy rogues convince the rest that their forecast is correct, and thus
the change occurs”. 

In other words, ‘success’ of a group at the expense of others is a sign
of their lack of scruples. But in more pragmatic way, the Russian Jews
owe their success to their close relations with the American Jews. When
the US Jews entered the big game of sharing the spoils of Russia, they
needed local allies, and the Russian Jews were available for this role.
Thus, this prominence of Russian Jews is even worse than it appears, for
the prominent ones are extremely pro-American and pro-capitalist. They
support Western domination, fight the Russian Orthodox Church, and
promote 'modernity', this poisonous mix of CNN, MTV and IMF. 

They enjoy support of the important American Jews. Khodorkovsky is
defended by such differing and mutually hostile Jewish players as
Richard Perle and George Soros. The NY Times (July 23, 2003) reported
from Moscow: “When key Washington policy advisor Richard Perle sat down
this week for a meeting with leading Russian political analysts, he had
an unsolicited word of advice: Lay off Yukos Oil Co., the Russian energy
giant locked in a showdown with criminal prosecutors.” (Yukos is
Khodorkovsky). Charles Grant, a Soros’ man, wrote: “today, in strict
utilitarian terms, Khodorkovsky is a force for good in Russia. He gives
direct and indirect support to a range of organisations and individuals
that are trying to raise the standards of Russian capitalism, civil
society and democracy. He wants to make Russia more western, which in my
view is exactly what it needs”. 

When Putin moved against Gusinsky, NY Times of Sulzberger called to
‘defend freedom of independent press’, another code-word for the
Jewish-owned one, as the NY Times did not defend Zavtra and other
opposition media. 

But ordinary Jews, or Russians of Jewish origin - and there are millions
of such people - are a different story. I meet them, music teachers,
journalists, economists; they are normal people, and they reject the New
World Order and regret the fall of the Soviet Union. Even oligarchs are
only human: Berezovsky was received in the Russian Orthodox Church,
married a Russian woman, he supports the national opposition, and who
knows? Maybe he changed his ways. The Manichaean approach should be
rejected – reality is more complicated than any scheme.