    An interesting debate between Gilad Atzmon and an 'antizionist Jew for
    peace' Tony Greenstein. This Tony fights mainly against other
    non-Zionists, calls for dismantling of Deir Yassin Remembered and has no
    qualms about his support of ADL clones.

    Gilad Atzmon - Tony Greenstein debate
    A debate between Tony Greenstein, an anti-Zionist ethnic Jewish activist and
    Gilad Atzmon, an ordinary Jazz musician

    http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/

    What follows is a brief version of a private email exchange between Tony
    Greenstein and Gilad Atzmon which was posted by Tony Greenstein on JPUK.
    Many have asked for wide distribution, Mr Greenstein in primis, and due to
    space reasons, I present only an edit here. Basic typos have been corrected
    and it has been arranged into a dialogue style to aid in comprehension, yet
    the content remains unvaried. An unabridged version is available here
    (http://www.gilad.co.uk/html%20files/Greenstein-Atzmon.html).

    T: I note that in the tirade below, (The Elders of London*) you accuse Jews
    Against Zionism and myself of being 'undercover Zionist agents of
    influence'.

    G: As it seems, you are calling for Jews to act under their ethnic/racial
    banner. i.e. Jewishness. I was sure that as a Marxist you should aim to let
    Jews become ordinary human beings i.e. equal comrades, rather than an
    isolated and segregated ethnic group.

    T: By your own admission you are distributing Eisen’s holocaust denial text.

    G: Holocaust Denial is in itself a Zionist terminology and I refuse to
    accept it or to use it.

    T: I understand that you have been distributing Paul Eisen's most recent The
    Holocaust Wars which denies, in the course of defending Ernest Zundel, that
    there ever was a holocaust or extermination of European Jewry by the Nazis.

    G: Mr Greenstein, True, I circulated Paul Eisen's paper. I do believe that
    argumentative texts must be circulated as widely as possible. I am sure that
    in case you have a counter argument to suggest Paul will be delighted to
    address it. By the way, my take on the subject is slightly different than
    Paul's one and yet, I found Paul very attentive to my criticism.
    Furthermore, let me assure you that if I ever see a great text written by
    yourself I’ll be the first to circulate it. This is my way, that is what I
    believe in.

    T: You admit you only disagree ‘slightly’. By your own admission you are
    condemned as either a knave or a fool or more probably both. I haven’t the
    slightest intention of engaging with holocaust deniers, any more than I have
    time to waste on flat earthers.

    G: I assume that if you had just a hint of integrity you may have realised
    along time ago that the Holocaust doesn't lead necessarily to just one
    'conclusion'. First, there might be more than one and if this is not enough,
    it might even provide us with more than one moral lesson (in case you don't
    realise, a moral lesson is a dynamic process while a conclusion is a firm
    and fixed idea). For me, the Holocaust like any other historical narrative
    is a dynamic process of realisation and interpretation. For me to be in the
    world is to be engaged in a dynamic process of interpretation. For me and
    not only me...Judaism at its very best is merely a dynamic critical process
    of re-reading and re-writing. For me the beauty of Judaism is conveyed by
    the imagery of a single Biblical page: a few lines of Biblical text and many
    different interpretations around it (deconstruction). On the other hand,
    Jewishness in its lowest form is the aim towards the imprisonment of meaning
    and fixation of ideas. In that very sense, I am very sorry to tell you Mr.
    Greenstein, you are presenting the lowest form of rabbinical and talmudic
    Jewish existence. You try to determine meanings and to stop any possible
    critical scholarship and interpretation. As bizarre as it may sound, Mr Paul
    Eisen, a man you try to destroy for being an anti-Semite, is presenting us
    with the ultimate beauty of Judaic thinking. Unlike you, Eisen is engaged in
    interpretation (Parshanut). Eisen is engaged in a process of re-reading and
    re-writing. Eisen follows the most radical form of orthodox Judaic spirit.

    Let me tell you, Eisen was raised as a Jew, unlike you he managed to
    internalise the essence of Judaism, this is enough to make him into a very
    important voice. If you were a real Jew rather than just a shallow form of
    talmudic Zionist you would stand up to Eisen and fight with his
    interpretation with dignity. But as it seems you are incapable.

    Instead of doing that you prefer to act under your Jewish banner whatever it
    means (something that you do constantly). You run campaigns solely with your
    Jewish comrades (rather than in the forefront of world working class).
    Rather than joining or even forming a humanistic open discourse, you try to
    stop the world from moving on. You insist on locating your worldview in the
    centre of any possible discourse. Why do you do it? Because you are a
    supremacist Jew. You must believe that you know better. You must believe
    that you know better than the SWP what is important for the British working
    class. You must think that you know better than the Palestinians what is
    right for the Palestinian people. Are you familiar with the notion of
    modesty? Just contemplate over the remote possibility that you may not know
    better......Let me tell you Mr. Greenstein, Marxism isn't an internal Jewish
    affair (it may had been for a while, but not any more) and so with the
    Palestinian cause. It is our duty (as human beings) to show our support to
    the Palestinian people but we are not allowed to tell them what to do. We
    are not allowed to tell them what is right or wrong, we can only offer
    ourselves as soldiers, this is what Paul is doing, this is what I try to do.

    Your frequent usage of the word 'insist' (you insist that the SWP kick me
    out and you insist that DYR will spit out Shamir or Eisen etc.) reveals a
    clear image of classic Jewish supremacist tendencies. You blame others for
    being white supremacists, just because you are daily engaged in supremacist
    practices. Considering the clear fact that you can't even present a simple
    argument. I would conclude that you should scrutinise your own conduct. You
    better look in the mirror Mr Greenstein, you better get used to the idea
    that you are just an ordinary human being like all of us, you can't 'insist'
    anymore, you can only suggest, and you better be polite about it.

    T: Not that this should be any surprise given your association with Israel
    Shamir, who makes a habit of supporting and defending white supremacists.

    G: With all due respect, you won't find any support for white supremacists
    in any of my writings. If you read my writings you will find the very
    opposite. I am against any form of supremacism. I wrote 2 books about the
    subject. Anyhow, I assume that you have a serious problem with Shamir, and
    yet I do not know what do you mean by the term 'association'. As you should
    know I am not a politician and not even a political activist. I am an
    artist: I am a musician and a writer. The notion of association means
    nothing to me. I am not a member in any party, I act solely as an
    individual. I am interested in Shamir’s writings as much as I am interested
    in any other writer who supports the Palestinian people. For me Palestine is
    more important than all those childish political games. I believe in freedom
    of spirit and freedom of speech. I would fight for you or anyone else in
    case someone would try to censor your writings. But then, let me admit, you
    are right about one thing, I am not associated with any pro Palestinian
    Jewish organisation. I do believe that the Palestinian cause is a human
    issue, it is far more important than Jewish politics. I hope that sooner
    rather than later you will realise it yourself.

    T: I didn’t accuse you of supporting white supremacists, I stated that you
    associate with Shamir who supports white supremacists. That is clear from
    his web site, his repetition of the blood-libel myths and his collaboration
    with neo-Nazis.

    G: I already addressed the association issue, again you use a terminology
    that is inapplicable to me. I am not associated with anyone. I am reading
    Israel occasionally, I think that he is a very important writer. But at the
    same time I would read every paper written by Brenner. I just read, I am a
    reader and a writer. Again, it is possible that you associate me with Shamir
    but this is your problem.

    T: I certainly wish to see a speedy end to Deir Yassin Remembered. It can
    only do great damage to the Palestinian cause in so far as it is led by a
    holocaust denier and associated with another virulent anti-Semite.

    G: As you may know, I performed in DYR this year and it was one of the most
    emotionally moving events I’ve ever taken part of. Mind you I am performing
    every night for over 25 years. You insist to bring DYR down, and let me tell
    you, this is enough to make you into a Zionist.

    T: Some, who draw the necessary conclusions from the holocaust, will hold
    that racism whomsoever it is directed against is wrong and will therefore
    adopt anti-Zionist and indeed anti-fascist politics.

    G: For a change I am in total agreement with you, I am against racism and in
    fact in my writing you won't find a single racial reference. Moreover, when
    I write about Jewish identity I analyse it in ideological and philosophical
    terms. For me Jewishness is a mind set. Nothing to do with the quality of
    one's blood or the religion of one's mother.

    T: Ironically it also mirrors the Zionist libel that
    anti-Zionism=anti-Semitism.

    G: I agree with you and this is another reason for me not to come with such
    a conclusion. And yet you blame me for being an Anti-Semite just because I
    am ridiculing yourself and your own shallow Marxism. Mr Greenstein, I must
    let you know that to be a Marxist is not just a 'language game', It is not
    enough to call someone a 'comrade' and to expect him to remove Gilad Atzmon
    from his conference. To be a Marxist is to be a critical thinker. But then
    not only that you aren't critical, you engage in censorship of any possible
    critical thinking. Basically you follow the most devastating Rabbinical
    practices. No wonder why you act as 'Marxist Jew' rather than just a
    Marxist. You probably regard Marxism as an internal Jewish affair, this may
    explain the fact that you allow yourself to come to the SWP with demands.

    T: I have no intention of taking lectures in respect of Marxism from someone
    who is supportive of Eisen's thesis that the holocaust didn't happen.

    G: This may be true but somehow you don't stop visiting my mail box. Being
    educated as a German philosopher I am very interested in different aspects
    of Master Slave dialectic (Hegel). Thus, I wonder why you are begging for my
    recognition. Why do you take the role of the slave in this debate? I ask
    just because I am really not interested in being your master or anyone else’
    s master.

    T: Clearly it is outrageous that a socialist organisation should invite you
    to their annual beanfeast. However that is their problem, not mine.

    G: Apparently it isn't their problem. They are very happy with it, this will
    be my third successful appearance in the conference. But somehow you aren't
    happy at all. You keep humiliating yourself sending them lengthy letters and
    get a short clear cut dismissal.

    If you have any dignity in your system you better take a rest. Look for
    enemies somewhere else.

    With Love and Peace
    Gilad Atzmon

    *http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editorials/2005%20Opinion%20Editorials
    /April/21%20o/The%20Protocols%20of%20the%20Elders%20of%20London%20By%20Gilad
    %20Atzmon.htm