{Ed. note: Article posted with permission of author. Edited slightly for web formatting.}

From:		"marc" <[email protected]>
Subject:		Re: [stcircle] Campaign vs Rules
Date sent:		Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:32:37 +0100

> I've used a lot of different rules systems over time. And I tell you,
> without the Campiagn setting changing, the rules made a massive difference
> to the roleplay.

Problem however-

This way of thinking is based on RPG's.
In a RPG EVRYTHING is within the realm of the dice.
Anyone who has ever lost a PC playing MERP because they 'tripped' knows what I mean.
With US however- only the spfx are formally under the rules.
The rest we DO.
Which liberates us and makes ENDLESS possibilities.

> Look at it this way. The rules are how the world works. If our lives had a
> set of rules, you could look at them (and your character sheet) and use them
> to guess if you could safely cross the road or not (gee, I've got a good
> dexterity and excellent depth perception, I know I should make the roll to
> get across the road before the driver hits me).

Ah...

no.

:)

Remember- life cannot be reduced to a character sheet- character sheets are attempts to appoxminate life.
Live action removes 90% of character sheets useage.
I remember the first larp fantasy game I ever played- got into this big fight with a guy with my rubber sword... I tripped, fell, slashed my hand open... and he just stood there and plonked me on the had and my PC died.
First fight.
stupid.
The grass was slippy, I was unbalanced whatever- that just happened.

The first cam game I ever played I bluffed out the entire Clan Brujah in the room- just me and my voice- wonderful memory... no tests.

To recreate both in TT you need DICE.
To do the second one in LARP you need- nothing. Just do it.
Or not.
:)

Thus these rules effect how
> you live your life, whether to be afraid of the 6'10" man with the baseball
> bat, or whether you should talk to your boss about a pay rise. Rules hgive
> rise to behaviour.

Nope.
Rules are the expression of probability.
Recreated by either dice or paper scissors stone.
And as anyone can testify- proability trees based on hyuman interaction keep failing.
Read the essey in 'Violence' RPG. Try not to laugh.

The try and take dice rolling seriously again.

> Imagine if the rules for life were badly written.

But they aren't.
And besides the metaphor IS invalid.
No, honest, it IS...
Promise.

You are told that you
> should be polite to massive, intimidating men with baseball bats, but one
> day you accidentally side swipe such a man's car. He get's out and starts
> walking towards you, you know they is no way out of this, it's going to
> hurt. He swings the baseball bat and it bounces off you, barely hurting at
> all. Suddenly all this background knowledge you have about the campaign (The
> Real World RPG) make no sense as huge men with baseball bats can barely
> touch you.

Yes, but two things-
Real World RPG is a metaphor that only applies when you have failed you 'Get out more often' test...
:)

And we are not in the buisness of recreating the real world. 'Cos if we were?

Seven foot tall furry walls of dead?
Undead bloodsuckers?
ghosts?
Magi?

PIXIES!!!!!

(smile)
We are in the realm of fantasy. Or to be closer to what was intended- a game world designed to recreate the cimimatic expression of the horror genre.

I want CINEMATIC violence folks.
Realism?
That went away when we allowed celerity, dominate, Gnosis and Forces Five effects.
:)

'Realism' used a basis for the validity of rules in this game is like trying to add 'grim horror' to a session of Care Bears RPG.
Sure we can give it some lip service... but we play VAMPIRES! C'mon! (grin)

> Cause and Effect. Those are the watchwords over here in the UK. But they are
> pointless unless the players can make intelligent decisions based on their
> knowledge of the campaign and the rules to project what effect a cause will
> have.

Nonsense. campaign knowledge and knowing the way to do three agg per round are two differant things.
One is IC the other is OOC- ALL rule based stuff is OOC.

If they cannot make predictions, they cannot make decisions properly,
> and things start becoming silly. The Campaign is half of the world knowledge
> that they require to make predictions about their actions, the Rules are the
> other half.

That's not campaign- that's player information.
For example what's the best weapon to use against chaos creature in WFRP etc.

> The world must make sense. The Campaign is half of that. The Rules are the
> other half.

The rules sit in the corner and get told what to do and if the campaign is feeling nice the rules get to leave the house maybe twice a week.
:)

They should know their damn place.
A rules dominated society is one where from follows function- in the WoD function follows form- rules follow on from the campaign.
Rules can change willy nilly.
they HAVE changed willy nilly. They will change willy nilly again.
And again.

(sigh!)
Please folks-
for all my 'anti-rules' comments let me get one thing clear here. Sure, I am saying inflammatory things about rules deliberatly... but in the end I have to because there is NO balance.

Yes, rules ARE important etc. And YES, I appraciate and admire the rules boys and girls for their hard work and stuff.
BUT-
The rules discussions and debate dominate the camapign, they dominate ST's way of thinking and they dominate players way of thinking.

Campaign has been marginalised and side tracked... it has been treated like the poor counsin.
Rules always seep onto this list...

It's a joke man.
:)

I personally have played under about a dozen rules systems. NONE give all the answers. EVERY nitpick generates more problems.
Someone- somewhere- will ALWAYS say the rules are crap.
ALWAYS.
Forever.

So, like... what's the point huh?
Go with a set of rules, relax, and focus on the campaign.

In fact I will go one stage further- focusing upon making the campaign stronger will mean the rules problems can be sidestepped or neautralised.

For example- mob rules...
There is no problem with the mob rules is there?

There is a problem with people wanting to use them to impact upon other PC's.

Some may say -'That's the same thing', but it isn't.

I say-
In a fight Campaign against Rules, Rules loses every time. EVERY time.

I repeat- NO ONE ever joined our society because we have great rules.

The history of RPG's has shown the games which place Campaign first survive and those which don't fail.

SIGH!

I must really LIKE this table...

marc torley
UK179
timelines project lead
founder of the 'bastard league'

"I am a bastard too; I love bastards.
I am bastard begot, bastard instructed,
bastard in mind, bastard in valor,
in everything illegitimate..."
-William Shakespeare
Troilus and Cressida.