(( posted with permission of author )) From: "Micheal Owens" Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 04:54:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [rulescircle] Lores question > One of my players recently made the following statement about lores. > > "A Brujah with Tremere Lore 3 would have, from a Tremere's > perspective, the equivalent of Tremere Lore 1." > > I think he was smoking some of that wicked strawberry flavored crack. *deep inhale* ... puff ... puff ... *deep inhale* ... puff ... puff ... I really think that is a defensive statement which has been made/ started by people who are astonished by the levels of out-of-clan Lores which people are garnering so easily. But, if Billy Brujah has Tremere Lore x3, he knows just as much as Tommy Tremere who has the same Lore Level, and with just as much intimacy. I think that the intimacy levels are what escapes most STs and players. Lores are not simply a set of specific knowledge, who upon garnering more knowledge, you can improve upon. Lore has a level of intimacy involved in it. Whosoever possesses a given Lore has seen/practiced such knowledges many times to bolster the belief in such knowledge. It isn't a matter of, "Hey, Rodney the Rogue told me he could shoot flames from fingers and so could any other Tremere. How about that Tremere x3?" You could think of it, instead, as Rodney sat down with Billy and explained, in great detail, all the various aspects of the commonly known Paths of Thaumaturgy, including the various applications, and how they are used. This delves into learning the basics of somatic components and how they interrelate to the specific discipline set being used, why Kindred Vitae is a necessary component of the power, regardless of the Path, and how these specific powers are viewed within the Pyramid. Not to mention, he'd have to get acquainted with a few rituals and the differences between rituals and thaumaturgy paths, and has seen examples of how to implement rituals and may have experienced a few rituals or even practiced some on his own (you sprinkle the newt dust in a pentagram, like this?). Also.. there's that thing about the Code of Tremere. He'd have to know that, backwards and forwards, and be able to recite it in full, knowing all the literal interpretations of various aspects of the Code, and has even heard about something called a Peripheral Code... but hasn't quite got that one figured out yet. Someone with that amount of knowledge knows intimately the inner-workings of a Chantry, usually through countless amount of experience or having observed or been informed over a long period of time of nightly events and how various members of a Chantry were involved, and what happened, and why. You'd have to know the Pyramid like it was the back of your hand, and understand the difference between a Regent of the First Circle and a Regent of the Seventh Circle is a lot more than one guy has a better title than the other. That being a member of the First Circle is like being a probationary Circle member. You've just made it to that level, and now they will be watching you. You get all the shit jobs and little of that stuff called respect, except maybe from Apprentices. Of the 7th, though? Hey, you're almost a Lord. They wouldn't have made you a R7 if they weren't thinking about it, and they watch you like a HAWK. A mean nasty hawk with a fetish for killing. Hey, what about those things like Traditionalist and the Transitionalist camps? He'd have to know about those, too, and not only know about them, but know where each stands in the whole scheme of things, and probably whose got what foot where who is in the general area. Hey, while those who bear the mark of Goratrix aren't around anymore, there's that continuing education that whosoever bears that mark is a traitor to House and Clan and MUST be destroyed. You've even seen some sketchings of what the mark looks like, and now where it can be found, and why you can't see it, but Tremere can. Then there are the Salubri. You've heard of those monsters. They all must die, and you've been filled with a ton of literal propaganda to incite any decent Tremere, and pretty much anyone else for that matter, into calling for a hunt if even the whiff of a possibility that a Salubri may be around. Then there's that story about Tremere and his buddies and how they all became Vampires by magic. You've read about fifteen renditions of that story, and it's become an old hat to you. It fits and is kind of comfortable. You'd know how a Regent interprets the Code and the issues around it, and not only know how, but why, and how he may react to various issues when dealing with the Code directly, not to mention, you'd know the internal politics of a Chantry and how and why things are done by different people who are of different levels. Why, you're even familiar with a Tribunal and know the reasons one might be called, and how it may be done, not to mention how you act in one, when you can talk, when you should jump, and whose butt you have to stick your nose into. Not to mention, you've even heard rumors of a few Secret Tremere Societies! You know for certain that one or two exist, and you even know a little bit about them. Not much, just that they're there, and the general scuttlebutt. You have a decent knowledge of the history of Clan Tremere as the Council desires the history of Clan Tremere to be out and presented. Nothing bad, all good. They did it all, didn't you know? Everything good comes from the Tremere. Even that great Assamite Curse. Hell, if it weren't for the Tremere cursing the Assamites, everyone would have been a juicebag by now. That's pretty neat, eh? NOW... if Billy Brujah doesn't know all this, then I wouldn't have approved him for Tremere Lore x3. Yet, someone did! So, we have to work on the assumption that somewhere down the line, Billy Brujah learned just as much as any Tremere of Greater Apprentice rank has learned through many decades of learning, researching, and experiencing direct from hours upon hours upon hours of direct involvement in the Clan. Billy could walk into a Tribunal, and so long as he were able to lie effectively and not get caught, and his Blood wouldn't be tested, sampled, etc... he could answer all the questions without a hitch, just like any other Tremere might be able to, and no one would be the wiser. Why? Because Billy knows just as much or more than many Tremere do, that's why. There's the crux. Many people view Lores as just a set of what you may know and never have come to the conclusion that there's a level of intimacy and experience that supports such knowledge. You not only know it, you know why, how, what, and when and all of the myriad interpretations which could be derived from [it] and how they interrelate with the Clan in question and everything else, like members, and a society, and the Sect, and other Clans, and ... , and ... That's why someone said, "A Brujah with Tremere Lore x3 would have, from a Tremere's perspective, the equivalent of Tremere Lore x1." Because, more often than not, those who have been approved higher levels of out-of-clan Lore, or any Lore, for that matter, really haven't done their homework and have no basis of foundation for such award. Sad, but true. BUT, in truth, if Billy Brujah has Tremere Lore x3 approved on his sheet... Billy Brujah knows Tremere Lore --> x3. STs need to learn how to say, "NO." Just say NO, ST. Just say NO. Heheh Micheal Owens, 9808-069 WuNamed: *Cybernetic Tiger* *doesn't like to play within the system* -- SC-RST www.recordstore.com/cgi-bin/wuname/wuname.pl "The toughest time...in anyone's life...is when you have to kill a loved one just because they're the devil." - Emo Philips