(( posted with permission of author, a few typos corrected with permission of author )) From: "marc" Subject: [stcircle] More Genuine advice... Date sent: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:33:13 +0100 Well, I sent the player the silly answer. Now it's time for a serious one. Dunno if people are going to scream at me for this. Hope not. marc Message begins- Yesterday I sent out some advice on how to deal with Justicars IC... my answers were glib and silly. This was intentional. However, I also have some serious advice on how as members and players we should cope with our IC interactions with Justicar NPC's and PC and NPC archons. You see one line I included in my advice holds the key- 'You cannot win'. Herein lies the problem with Archons and Justicars. Your PC's cannot win. Not really. Not unless you are very lucky both IC and OOC. Justicars represent the top of the food chain. They represent about as powerful as this campaign gets. They are the power behind the power. They also represent something BEYOND players ability to interact with. One of the things many ST's of late have tried to push, one of the things for example I believe Wade Jones will be remembered for (not just him alone, many of the US NST's staff and indeed many ST's across the world) is the idea of the 'player controlled campaign'. This was at the heart of the Protocols of the Camarilla. The idea that the ST was removed from certain aspects of the game and that the players themselves took over- that the rise and fall of any given PC was in the hands of that PC and in the hands of those PC's around them. The Protocols were about providing as much ammunition for the players as possible. Establishing 'ground rules' to allow the players and their characters do whatever they wanted. Now, rather then re-debate the merits of if they worked or not, what is important here is the idea what their existance means in principle- in principle it means there no longer exists any deus ex machina- any Godstrikes for player stuff. In principle Godstrikes ceased the moment they came in. It was now left to players to do stuff. That the whole universe was in the hands of the PC's. That was the principle and in principle that was what existed. However at the heart of this principle lay one problem. Justicars. Justicars are the top of the food chain. They are NPC's because they are top of the food chain. They fulfill a campaign duty. They remain in the control of the ST's. No, let's not debate if this is right or not- let's look at the side effect of this. By remaining in the hands of the ST's (nearly always ANST's) we are also faced with one problem- they are PERCEIVED as the Godstrikes. People feel they are the Godstrikes. And players resent the hell out of it. In the face of a living campaign where ther is no impediment for a character to become prince of the entire East Coast of the USA, or no impediment for someone to become permenant Royal Harpy for Australia except OTHER characters, the Justicars repreent the final authority and the block to stuff. They are the one thing you cannot effect. The one 'Sorry- no' that remains. They seem to be a throwback. This is not the case. But I am concerned not with the facts but more with the perception. This leads for me into the MOST crucial side of this campaign- the core of ST'ing, the heart of the problem that each player whose PC is taken by the Justicars has to face in one way or another. The issue of cause and effect. Vampire is a game ALL about cause and effect. We see it in the very existance of paths and humanity and the beast- you do stuff you pay the price. That is what makes it differant form most other RPG's. YOU do stuff IC and YOU pay the price IC. You cause an effect and the equal and opposition effect comes back at you. The game world ripples and shifts. And it is in this shifting, this conflict, that the best stories come out. And this after all is a storytelling game. An example- you create a PC- you try for praxis- you impact upon the game world and your fellow PC's react- maybe you get Prince but lots hate you. Maybe you fail- and get bloodhunted. Whatever. It is all part of the game. The Justicars are the same. They are effectively REACTIVE NPC's. They REACT to your characters. To what they do. Or maybe they react to what others say and do. Understanding that is important- in all my time as an ST I have NEVER heard of a Justicar impacting upon in a game without a REASON for it. I am sure some ST's could say 'Well I know a time...'. Maybe. But I bet somewhere down the line someone who was involved with the decision for the Justicar to be there would disagree. Does any of this make sense? I hope so. Anyway- I'll try and stop waffling and get to my main point- The thing is we are involved not in a RPG. But in a storytelling game. The two are so alike it can be missed a lot. But the differances are there and they are important. I had this conversation a few weeks ago with a certain US RST in a bar acros the street from the British Museum and what I felt then I actually feel more passionatly about now. What makes a storytelling game differant from a simple RPG is the fact that the principle duty of those involved is to make sure stories ARE told. We are after all ST's- storytellers. The aim of this is to allow our players and ourelves fabricate a game world of rich detail and infinate connections. A universe that allows our members express their creativity and inspiration. As ST's we often are the only ones to see the sheer splendour of this- how many of us have been honoured to recive a GREAT backround- as one of our players creates a PC of depth and weight- and as they role-play and interact with others we get to see them smile at something and none of the other players know why but because we know the PC's background WE do and we go 'Wow!'. How many ST's have seen detailed and wonderful moments of role-play- have been honoured to help fashion them- how many characters have we seen be created- tell thier tales and then die. In all venues, not just Vampire? These are the stories. They represent a vast amount of work, appreciation, dedication and effort on behalf of many players. They are the life blood of our campaign. And sometimes, if we are lucky- we get to see a character last for years- creating a story cycle that is immense and awesome- look at some of the most well know PC's over the years, think about the tales they tell- the stories they represent. And then they die. (smile) End of character. Time for a new one. The real issue lies in the end of a character. The death scene. All PC's die. Unless they retire off into the sunset. It's just the nature of it really. I mean- hands up ANYONE who has never lost a PC? I rest my case. I have found however that what most members want is a STORY behind their deaths. Reasons for it. Some pleyers will be pissed off. A natural reaction. It's hard not to feel pissed of when you lose a good character. It's hard not to feel upset. It's an automatic reaction- no one is perfect. Even the most experienced of us will sometimes sit and say we are playing a combat of something and find ourselves being raelly carried away and maybe if we are lucky a voice goes 'What are you doing? Your taking this personally?' and maybe not. And maybe we give our fellow ST's a hard time over it. And maybe we give our fellow members a hard time over it. It happens. To everyone. PC death does this. In some extream cases we can look at folks and worry that they are taking it WAY too seriously- even going so far as to judge the depth of their reaction as being indicative of being unable to step back from their PC's. And yes, this does happen, but luckily very, VERY rarely. But my whole point is that all of us have felt this at some point. Which is where the desire for a story comes into it. Because many members if they know the story behind it, will happily go 'oh, OK' and get on with it. I should know. I am one of those players. I don't mind what the hell happens to my PC's as long as the story is good. Or at least this is what I say to myself. On occasion I have caught myself getting pissed off. But then I am not anything special. I am just human and this is natural. IF we are lucky- if we are really lucky- we are able to work out with our ST's the nature of our PC's death. I know of many classic examples of great stories which were brought about by a player accepting beforehand or even requesting beforehand that THIS is how their PC will die. They plan it. The ST's know about it ahead of time. Both sides are able to create epic moments that live in the memory for the longest time and like all good stories are passed person to person- recalled with fond memories years later. For a storytelling game this is about as great a reward we can get. To be PART of the end of our characters story. To be part of making sure the story was ended in a way we felt was right. This rocks. But most times we ain't THAT lucky. Most times we face a certain degree helplessness as to how our PC's end their stories. Usually you see it is caused because other PC's do things to your PC. Mostly it is because someone attacked your PC lets be honest. And given what I said before- THAT can be OK. We can sit there and when our characters die we can go 'well, my PC did slay that PC's sire' or something. The death could be because of of the natural cause and effect of our campaign. And we can reconcile that. We can go 'Fair enough- my PC had it coming'. But this leads us to the most difficult kind of PC death- thunderbolts. A thunderbolt is ALWAYS problematic. It is when the PC and the player has NO idea what the heck hit them. Many Assamite contracts can be thunderbolts (although one can always go 'Bloody hell- an assamite! Eep!' and have an OOC idea that someone hired them). But I have ran games, and played in games where someone just strikes down another PC and I (and the player of that other PC) has no idea IC or OOC why. And it can cause problems ooc as people can feel upset. No, not always, 'rip up character sheet and scream' upset- I mean a 'they get on with it but deep down they are curious and surprised' upset. In this we gotta remember that what is really upsetting them is bad change management. They had a PC, now they don't. This is a fundermental change in the way they will play. Change management tells us that making this change like any other drastic change requires good and solid reasoning or else it will probably cause upset. This is why change management is all about communications and getting people USE to change. And bottom line the reason for upset at PC's death. It is drastic change in situation. In many cases however, there is nothing so solves this porblem than taking the player to one side ooc and talking it out with them the reasons why the PC died... explaining why to them. Telling the story. And all of this brings me full circle. The Justicars. Usually they are Thunderbolts. You turn up at a game- Archons turn up and BANG! There goes your character. What is worse is because Archons and Justicars fundermentally answer to an ST- it can been seen as a Godstrike. So as well as the change of PC status and the issues that come with that- there is also the issue that Justicarical use BECAUSE it is so final can be seen as an unfair godstrike. What this all means is really simple- If your PC is suddenly arrested by a Justicar or an Archon you can feel ooc quite bewildered and pissed off. And if they are killed the same applies. Let me say here and now- this is normal. Given what I said (if you agree with what I said) above- feeling this way is completely and utterly normal. Yes, there ARE members who would not feel like this- but chances are I bet you they have interacted with Justicars before (smile). Now to ANYONE who has had their PC arrested IC by a Justicar or an Archon I offer the following in the hope it helps you. Maybe it won't. Maybe it will. I say the following is based on a very specific example that took place a few years ago- I as an ST had the NPC Brujah Justicar ask the NPC Toreador Justicar slay a PC at a game in the US. This was done. The player of the PC sent me a mail- he was confused, bewildered and wanted answers. I sent him a personal version of what I wrote below. He replied and we kept on mailing each other. The player is now one of my best friends in the world. And what we discussed, what I said to him for the first time became one of the most important things I ever learned as an ST. What follows below then is a variation of that mail and is sent to you and to ALL players who ever run into the wrath of the Justicarical NPC's in the genuine hope it allows you smile and be happy about it... ***************************** It is a TV show. Real good horror/thriller show. It is the end of season finale. Everyone is watching. It's real last episode of season one of The West Wing stuff. The episode begins- the show is about the PC's at your game- we have followed your PC's all series- we have seen them interact with everyone- maybe they fought, maybe they killed, maybe they just bitched all the time. Everyone has their heroes and villians. Your Elysium game was the start of the episode. PC's doing stuff. The show cuts to a new location- one NEVER seen before. Somewhere dark- scary. The music becomes menacing and dangerous. A new character appears- well not so much a new character- just one we rarely EVER see. The Justicar. Stood in shadows. Awesome. A real GOOD screen bad guy. Before the Justicars there are a few Archons. Kneeling. The Justicar is scanning peice of paper. The camera closes in on his face and a voice over begins- what the paper says... What does it say? It depends- maybe it is the voice of an Archon saying that a certain PC is guilty of a crime- the viewers who watched the crime take place go 'Oh, they have him now'.. or maybe they recognise the voice as the person who did the crime and they are blaming someone innocent and the viewers are going 'Oh, no, not HER. She's really nice- they are setting her up!'. Maybe the voice over is the voice of an Archon saying how the Prince was inept and the whole Domain must be judged... the viewer sits there and shakes their head 'Oh lord, they can't do that can they? It's the Princes fault...' or something like that. The reason is given. The Justicar stares up at their Archons... "Judge them." Dramatic music. Cut. Back to your game- your PC's- like all good dramas the storylines are unfolding- dramatic moments- boring moments that just build character. As this is TV, we can cut for a flashback from a PC's background... The screen cuts as we view the Archons on their way to the Elysium. Something wicked this way comes. The audience squirms. Who is it gonna be? We return to the Elysium or current location of the main show... things carry on; characters interact, and then BANG! Archons arrive. Scary music, dramatic moments- maybe a fight- maybe just an arrest- maybe an execution. The viewers remember that in one season the Archons turned up, read a warrent for one characters arrest, arrested him and then killed him... but not tonight. Tonight they give no reasons. They point... "You" and a character flees. The character is shocked and scared- why? What happened? Why are they being arrested? Why? The audience knows... they don't. *********************** In the end there is no audience. But the above holds true. All that happened is that the story impacted upon your PC. I want you to think about your PC. All their existance. Everything they said and done. Everything they planned. Their story. Think about them- try and put yourself in their shoes. One night they were just there and then WHAM! Along come the Archons. A brutal anti-climax; every they had planned for nothing- their hopes and dreams for nothing- all their skill and power for NOTHING. The worst is when they don't even know why? Imagine your PC, maybe staked, maybe torpored, maybe just in chains... being taken away to a probable death- or a definite death... they are scared. They are terrified. they are going to die and they don't know why? Their existance reduced to this moment of helplessness, and fear. And maybe they DO die... head forced down by an Archon with great potence as another drings the sword down upon their neck... or maybe they are burned... staked and dismembered... or worse... screaming... begging- wondering why them? What did they ever do? And of course they never know. Their existance is removed without a thought. And maybe deep down the audience knows that there IS no good reason for the PC's death. They were framed or they were killed because they upset someone. And now they suffer an brutal, pointless death. How utterly tragic. How utterly pathetic. How utterly dark and pointless and bleak. How utterly Vampire. More than that- how utterly and completly true to the world of darkness. You see when we think about it- the feelings of victimisation, helplessness and pointlessness is one any victim of crime can relate to. Indeed anyone who has ever suffered from such expereinces can relate to this at once- they CAN feel empathy with the PC's. Not too much mind- some of us don't like to remember such things. But it is also horror in it's truest form. Horror is not always the monster under the bed. Sometimes horror is nothing more than facing something, some aspect of human existance and not liking what it says. In the end your PC was taken for a VERY good reason. Some players object to the excuse 'Well, it's in keeping with the world of darkness', but basically this is what is happening. The words are not a bad reason. They are just not emphasising what the full implication of them means. When a PC falls to Justicar it is an example of the capricious and ferocious nature of the Jyhad. No differant to the struggle against the Wyrm in the Garou venue... or the Black Hand in Sabbat... the weight of Banality... the power of Oblivion... the inevitability of Paradox. These things, these words, represent themes so powerful and so large that we can overlook them. Be assured that if your ever lose your PC to an Archon or a Justicar- that your PC was part of something much larger. A giagantic storyline- filled with thousands of characters all interacting. If you were lucky- if you were really lucky, the thing that actually took out your PC was something TINY. A cross word said to a wrong person on the other side of the world. Because if that's the case then it's chaos theory in action- a butterfly flaps in wings in New York and a storm breaks over Beijing. One small thing said miles away and months ago leads to your character being taken out. And if you are really lucky you may get a chance to role-play out your 'interrogation'- this is great. Your PC is a victim- they should react accordingly. I have seen PC's taken out by Justicars for hundreds of reasons- many if not most can be seen in terms of us, the players, the cold rational human beings- as unfair and capricious. But that's also the point. That is very in keeping with the idea of these NPC's. Be assured of one thing- your PC's removal from play (maybe death- maybe turned into a door whetever) IS part of the story. It IS the story. As long and as detailed, or as short and as harsh as it is, it IS legit. You PC's story has joined a larger story- their identity is lost amidst the Jyhad and the example of the Justicars power. It becomes a brick in the wall which builds the horror of the campaign up. Hell, maybe you had other plans in mind for your PC. But it ain't THAT bad. In fact when you think about it- it's pretty good. For a moment there this huge and massive global campaign came down upon your game and your PC. For a second, a scene, an evening- your PC was the focus of the world. For a moment your story was the most important one going. At least that's the way I see. People can disagree. In the end arrest by the Justicars does not mean your PC IS dead. Maybe your PC has powerful friends. Maybe they will get them out. Maybe your PC don't have powerful friends, but another PC does. Maybe they will get out and yours won't. Is that fair- no? Not for your PC- for the player? Yes it is. It teaches you that for your next PC- you will cultivate as many powerful friends as possible. Or failing that have many people owe you boons. I for one don't think it unreasonable for players (not characters) to know why they were killed. I also know that it is not beholden unto any ANST-Justicar to have to go out of their way to explain to the players 'why?'. I am the long time advocate of the bastard school of St'ing- what is that? It is being a bastard- being harsh when harshness is needed. Any player who has had me as their ST (in any venue) will testify that I have a ferocious death toll at times. But I always give a reason. I always try and explain how the PC's death made sense and how it made a story. But that's just me. I believe the stories must be told. I will also say that being a bastard ST means knowing that death is by FAR the easiest option when it comes to PC's. That you can do things to characters that are much worse. But again- just a personal view. These words may help- they may not. Why did I write them? Because someone asked my opinion and I figured I'd give it. I am an opinionated little sod. Are they RIGHT? To me, yes. They make sense, they help me accepot PC death and they have helped others. This does not mean I speak for any other ST on Earth. And what I will say- if anyone thinks my words are a criticism of an ANST-Justicar on EARTH then I will say here and now they ain't. Nor do they criticise any ST around. Applying cause and effect- demonstrating the horror of the game and the changes these bring to characetrs and players is NEVER easy. There is NO correct way to do it. Each game, each player has their own taste and their own desires. All we can do is try our best and hope to God someone understands what we were trying to do. I hope this helps you and other players and ST's and just people involved with Justicarical storylines. If your PC died, I hope you will see that it was an example of either your PC doing something or someones PC screwing over your PC. If the latter- congradulate the player who did it. They play a mean game. Learn from them and if at some point in the future you can do the ame to their PC (for IC reasons folks- don't fall prey to petty OOC reasons) then respect to ya. And if you are part of an entire Domain that was arrested or a batch of PC's that were arrested, or the Archons arrest your Prince and several 'leading members of your Domain' (all of which I have sabctioned as an ST in the past), see it this way- the only way your characters death would be wasted is if no one heeds the warning of what happened to your PC and carries on as if they are untouchable. Your PC shows that any Domain or any prince- if they rock the boat enough, then cause and effect says someone will notice. Make you next character know this- warn other PC's. Spread the fear. Say the words. Because if it does happen again- you can play a differant role in the story- the cassandra- the prophet of doom- stood, one step ahead- ready to take advantage of the situation. If you are lucky. :) Anyway- as I said before- hope that helps. If not- well, good luck. remember- there is NO such thing as a wasted character. Make your next one better than the last and enjoy them as long as you can. marc torley UK179 timelines project lead founder of the 'bastard league' "I am a bastard too; I love bastards. I am bastard begot, bastard instructed, bastard in mind, bastard in valor, in everything illegitimate..." -William Shakespeare Troilus and Cressida.