umm.... this is actaully REALLY old... i was gona put it on my xanga but deicded not to...
DAMN u ppl wuldnt belive how long it took to put all the "br" things in...
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: dude...
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: you know, you have to think about what religion is
MystikD109: its bullshit thats wat it is
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: it's well...
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: see, it is total bullshit
MystikD109: i agree
MystikD109: its wat ppl had in ancient times to explain wat we can now explain w/ science
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: but what is religion now?
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: mystik, why do people keep believing in it
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: in enormous numbers, no less
MystikD109: i dont know y ppl keep believing it
MystikD109: it amazes me how some scientists can believe it
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: i'll tell you, mystik
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: this may throw you off any counterargument
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: it gives people a sense of hope
MystikD109: yea
MystikD109: i guess
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: it makes them more sure of themselves
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: buuut
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: i have a counterargument against that!
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: hahah
MystikD109: wat?
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: ok
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: there's this thing
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: in psychology
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: known as the placebo effect
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: (psychology is DAMN useful!)
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: placebo effect
MystikD109: which is?
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: is when you give someone, for example, an empty pill
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: a pill with just the outer coat
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: nothing inside of any medicinal/chemical value
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: and tell them it's medicine
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: and they actually get better
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: the placebo effect
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: illustrates how if people are made to believe something
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: that that something will make them feel better
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: it actually does make them feel better
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: and i think that completely explains the effects of religion in our time
MystikD109: thats very true
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: i think religion was divided into three stages
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: the history
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: of religion i mean
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: 1) the earliest stage, from prehistory to about...iono, 1500
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: when people needed religion to explain their world
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: because they had no way of explaining it otherwise, no science
MystikD109: oohoo
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: and then came science
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: the second stage which kinda occurs during the late part of the first stage
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: is the stage when it was used to control people
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: actually
MystikD109: the renaisanse
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: for the christian religion, that stage occurred during the middle ages
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: and even after the renaissance
MystikD109: im mean thats when it started
MystikD109: or around there
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: what did
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: the second stage?
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: or science?
MystikD109: both
MystikD109: kinda
MystikD109: beginings of science
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: science started...well really started around 1500, yea
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: even though greeks had science...
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: astronomy and shit
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: and archimedes (we do still use his principles in physics today, surprisingly)
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: but yea, their science wasn't too well-developed
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: it was mostly bloody wrong
MystikD109: lol
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: and it somehow managed not to conflict with their religion
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: ok
MystikD109: anyway...
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: but yea, real science flourished beginning about 1500
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: and after
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: now the second age...
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: of religion, mystik
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: it depends which religion you're talking about
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: iono about all those really far eastern religions
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: buddhism
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: shintoism
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: etc. etc.
MystikD109: lets take chirstianity
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: not only
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: islam, also
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: christianity has (and this is surprising) been around since, obviously, about 20 AD
MystikD109: yea jesus and all the stuff
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: and the medieval period was the second stage of christianity
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: you know, when the fucking pope controlled even the highest and most powerful rulers of europe?
MystikD109: yea
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: that second period for christianity was c. AD 900-1650
MystikD109: the pope has a pretty nice castle in Rome
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: i say 1650 cuz even that late, those stupid catholic bastards were still threatening galileo and his comrades and impeding our scientific progress
MystikD109: oohoo
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: but the interesting thing
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: is that islam which started with mohammed
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: ca. ad 600
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: is, just now, experiencing what's probably the beginning of its second stage
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: you know, those terrorists who are basically brainwashed by bin laden...
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: they're basically the same as the crusades were to christianity
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: i dunno about judaism, judaism is HELLA FUCKING OLD so hell knows if there ever was a second stage...
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: i can say for sure though
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: that jews, even though i am one myself, are sorta...
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: or were
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: sorta stupid
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: up till about the 1940s (you can pretty much guess why)
MystikD109: oohoo
MystikD109: maybe thats the second age
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: maybe
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: the jewish people have, indeed, been continually hounded for their religion
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: ever since they started migrating to & fro across europe
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: and i can't honestly say anti-semitism has been rooted out
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: i can say
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: that i think anti-semitism would experience a pretty fat reduction
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: or would have experienced
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: if jewish people simply became atheistic
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: and merged with the population
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: soon enough you'd just have a general population and the jews would be indistinguishable
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: the point:
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: if jewish people weren't so fucking blunt
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: and didn't insist on keeping their traditions
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: (and i'm not saying anything about the cultural/anthropological value of those traditions)
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: then they would have been off a LOT easier
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: and certainly wouldn't have experienced that rather drastic 6,000,000-person cut that we thank herr hitler for
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: so...think a bit about that second stage
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: shit i didn't even enter the third stage, oh well
CaRoLvSMaGnVs359: do that later
this is in no way finished... we just kinda ran out of time... i think it was like 12am or later...
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