GnarlyOcelot: are u into the atheist religion or are u just plain not believing in
god?
Atheist142: just plain not believing
GnarlyOcelot: ah, and wuld this be a strong or weak, (u dont really care, er u
are dead certain there is no god)
Atheist142: I just haven't seen any evidence for any god/s
GnarlyOcelot: ok, haf u ever believed in god at one point?
Atheist142: yeah
Atheist142: I was a Christian for most of my life
GnarlyOcelot: oh? why did u stop?
Atheist142: read above reason.
GnarlyOcelot: explain
Atheist142: I just haven't seen any evidence for any god/s. I did believe,
but then I realized there was no evidence, sooo I stopped
GnarlyOcelot: ..lol, everything is evidence.. im shure you tot about this but i
wuld lyke to hear you answer to the explanation of the universe
Atheist142: eh, just the Inflationary Big Bang theory and evolution. That
about sums it up.
GnarlyOcelot: ..er.. wut big banged...
Atheist142: what do you mean?
GnarlyOcelot: sumthing wuld haf had to big bang
Atheist142: a singularity
GnarlyOcelot: ..ok, think a lil deeper, were did the singularity come frum and so
forth, sumwhere down the line it has to stop
GnarlyOcelot: listen, du u know the second law of thermodynamics
Atheist142: um, it came from a random quantum fluctuation. it was
random.
GnarlyOcelot: ??
Atheist142: I don't think you'll quite understand this.
GnarlyOcelot: i'll understand
GnarlyOcelot: so, the universe was infinitately goin on in the past
Atheist142: Yes, I know the second law... it only applies to closed
systems.
GnarlyOcelot: there was no beginning?
Atheist142: pretty much.
GnarlyOcelot: ok.. hold up.. lemme give ya sumtin
GnarlyOcelot: ahite.. im gonna copy and paste sumtin
Atheist142: please make it in actual english please... your abreviations
are giving me a headache,
GnarlyOcelot: hopefuly this will help u
GnarlyOcelot: ok:-D
GnarlyOcelot: The universe is not infinitely old because it is not in a state of
entropy.
If the universe were infinitely old, it would have reached a state of entropy long
ago.
But, we are not in a state of entropy, therefore, the universe is not infinitely old
and must have had a beginning.
Because the universe has had a beginning it is not infinite in size.
It would require an infinite amount of time to become infinite in size. Since the
universe had a beginning, it has not had an infinite amount of time to expand,
therefore it is finite in size.
All events have causes.
There cannot be an infinite regress of events because that would mean the
universe were infinitely old.
If it were infinitely old, the universe would be in a state of entropy, which it is not.
If it were infinitely old, the universe would be infinitely large, which it is not.
Since the universe is finite and had a beginning and there cannot be an infinite
number of regressions of causes to bring it into existence, there must be a single
uncaused cause of the universe.
A single uncaused cause of the universe must be greater in size and duration than
the universe it has brought into existence.
Otherwise, we have the uncaused cause bringing into existence something greater
than or equal to itself.
Any cause that is natural to the universe is part of the universe.
An event that is part of the universe cannot cause itself to exit.
Therefore, there must be an uncaused cause outside the universe.
An uncaused cause cannot be a natural part of the universe which is finite.
An uncaused cause would be infinite in both space and time since it is greater
than which it has caused to exist.
This uncaused cause is supernatural.
By supernatural I mean it is completely 'other' than the universe is not natural to
it.
This would make the uncaused cause supernatural.
This uncaused cause is God.
At this point I admit to making a leap of logic and assert that the supernatural,
uncaused cause is the God of the Bible.
The Bible teaches that God infinite in time and scope and is wholly other than the
universe of which He created.
God is defined as being infinite in size, duration, and power.
Therefore, the God of the Bible is the uncaused cause of the universe.
Atheist142: i read that before
Atheist142: well then if your god is "infinite" then why can't the universe
be so also?
GnarlyOcelot: ..the law
Atheist142: no
GnarlyOcelot: we wuld be in chaos
GnarlyOcelot: and we arent
Atheist142: we are
GnarlyOcelot: no no, way more chaos than that
Atheist142: actually, most of the universe is chaos. pockets of order can
form because the universe isn't a CLOSED SYSTEM, it is expanding
GnarlyOcelot: pockets of order dont form... chaos cannot turn into order
Atheist142: yes they can, in an open system
GnarlyOcelot: lol, wer did you get this open system?
Atheist142: this is an open system we live in because of the expanding
universe
Atheist142: from particle physicists
GnarlyOcelot: im talking about earth
Atheist142: the earth is an open system because it recieves energy from
the sun
GnarlyOcelot: are u sayin earth wuz wun of these pockets?
Atheist142: our entire little bubble of the universe, with the stars and all
that, is a tiny pocket of order in chaos.
GnarlyOcelot: ok, honestly i dont haf the answer, wut u say might be true, but
nobody can be iny more sure than the god thing.. but wut about all the other
things?
Atheist142: what other things?
GnarlyOcelot: er.. lyke the prophesies and stuff
GnarlyOcelot: and how did the bible know about the earth being round way
befor we found out
Atheist142: where did it say that?
GnarlyOcelot: the bible was a book made by 40 different men over a 1500
period, most of whome never met
GnarlyOcelot: (here, lemme find it)
GnarlyOcelot: oh by the way, there were all on 3 diff continents and came with
3 different languages
Atheist142: and please USE COMMON ENGLISH.
Atheist142: pleease
GnarlyOcelot: they*
GnarlyOcelot: sorry
GnarlyOcelot: i will
Atheist142: thank you
GnarlyOcelot: "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people
are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads
them out like a tent to live in" (Isaiah 40:22, NIV).
Atheist142: yes, the heavens are like a canopy and a tent.
GnarlyOcelot: "He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he
suspends the earth over nothing" (Job 26:7, NIV).
Atheist142: the earth isn't "suspended" in any way
GnarlyOcelot: "above the circle of the earth"
Atheist142: okay, is the heaven a tent?
Atheist142: heavens^^^
GnarlyOcelot: suspended by not sitting on inything
Atheist142: okay, you take one literally and not the other.
Atheist142: pick one, all or nothing
GnarlyOcelot: god uses phrases like that all the time, but the circle of the earth
isnt used as an explanitory thing
Atheist142: how do you know?
GnarlyOcelot: the canopy is a similie
Atheist142: and the earth isn't a "circle", it's a sphere.
Atheist142: there's a big difference, one is flat and the other round.
GnarlyOcelot: ok, now u'r getting crazy
GnarlyOcelot: lol
GnarlyOcelot: you are*
Atheist142: no, you just need to take geography...
Atheist142: a circle is a two-dimenstional figure... it's flat. a sphere is a
three-dimensional figure... it's round.
GnarlyOcelot: its is obviose what he ment, and remember, this was translated
from a different language
Atheist142: no, it's not.
Atheist142: not really.
GnarlyOcelot: if you are looking at the earth, it looks like a circle
Atheist142: even if this one time someone stretched their mind around
this one, alright, go ahead and explain the Noah's ark story? how did all
the animals get there in 7 days? including the kiwi, which can't fly or
swim?
GnarlyOcelot: get where?
Atheist142: all of the animals came to Noah in 7 days
GnarlyOcelot: god sent them to him
GnarlyOcelot: some where being sent before he even told Noah
Atheist142: in 7 days? over oceans? when they can't fly or swim? no, it
says only 7 days. in your bible
GnarlyOcelot: maybe, im not sure of the answer, but i will get back to you on
it... if i give an answer i want it to be the right one
GnarlyOcelot: there are many things in the bible i have not read
Atheist142: you're defending something you haven't even read yet?
Atheist142: you believe it although you don't know what it says?
GnarlyOcelot: i know part of it, but i have not memorized it
GnarlyOcelot: i have read that part
Atheist142: but you believe all of it?
GnarlyOcelot: yes i do
Atheist142: you said yourself you haven't read all of the bible.
Atheist142: why do you believe it when you don't even know what's in it?
GnarlyOcelot: not all, i am about half way there
GnarlyOcelot: i do know what is in it
GnarlyOcelot: i have learned from church since i was born
GnarlyOcelot: never really seriously believed in it but i learned it, then i started
to get into my own self study
GnarlyOcelot: i would sent you some web sites that have hit me, if you would
like
Atheist142: hmm... did you ever read Deuteronomy 21:18-21 ?
GnarlyOcelot: if you have any questions i will try my hardest to answer them
Atheist142: or Numbers 31:1-18?
GnarlyOcelot: maybe, i dont know what it is
Atheist142: well read it
GnarlyOcelot: im not much into "memorizing verses"
GnarlyOcelot: ok
Atheist142: neither am I, but these are really big ones for me
GnarlyOcelot: ok
GnarlyOcelot: i read the deuteronomy wun, but im not going to say anything im
not sure about
GnarlyOcelot: i think...
GnarlyOcelot: n/m
Atheist142: lol
GnarlyOcelot: i'll check out the other
GnarlyOcelot: ( i wuz going to say something but didnt want to give you the
wrong info)
Atheist142: riight
GnarlyOcelot: well.. i think, back then that dieing wasnt as big of a deal, most
of them couldnt go to heaven anyway, because they were full of sin and were not
worthy of heaven.
Atheist142: !
GnarlyOcelot: i believe that the few who did make it clensed their sin by
sacrafices
Atheist142: alright, that's your opinion.
GnarlyOcelot: (until Jesus, we now have Jesus)
GnarlyOcelot: what do u think?
Atheist142: I think life is, was, and always will be precious.
GnarlyOcelot: (like i said, i check into it)
GnarlyOcelot: ok
GnarlyOcelot: did u check any of the sites out yet?
Atheist142: no, do you want me to now?
GnarlyOcelot: shure, maybe it will stir up some questions
Atheist142: okies
Atheist142: the first doesn't stir up much
GnarlyOcelot: the second is a FAQ wun
Atheist142: no.
Atheist142: errk, sorry, wrong window :-P
Atheist142: gosh-darn popup windows
GnarlyOcelot: hehe
GnarlyOcelot: lol
Atheist142: the second one doesn't really bring up much either, nope
GnarlyOcelot: ok.. well im gonna try to answer you questions
GnarlyOcelot: can we continue the talk later?
Atheist142: sure
GnarlyOcelot signed on at 4:16:37 PM.
