Mothers Against Madness
This is a place to discuss the madness that surrounds us.
Immigration

Immigration


Summary:  The problem of illegal immigrants is creeping into many facets of our lives and must be resolved.  Some of the solutions suggested have prompted a public outcry because they are examples of the madness we seek to obliterate.  We are looking for rational solutions and suggestions for what our country, our state, our city and individuals can do to resolve this matter.  The problem has been divided into several categories below.  Please feel free to comment or make suggestions.  A list of possible actions by MAM members will then be presented for a vote. 


REMEMBER:  There is power in numbers, and numbers are more powerful in small concentrated doses.  That is why it is important that we remain united, and continuously inform others.  Please e-mail this website to anyone against madness (you don’t really have to be a mom.)


Immigration Issues:


 1.Securing the Border


 2.Employing Illegal Immigrants


3.   3. Settled Illegal Immigrants


4.  4. Children of Illegal Immigrant


5.   5. Illegal Right to Social Programs?


6.   6. Illegals in School & Community Colleges


7.   7. What Washington Should Do


8.   8. What States Can Do




9.  9. What Cities Can Do




10. 10.What MAM Members Can Do




General thoughts and comments from MAM members on each issue as listed above:


1.      1.SECURING THE BORDER:  Yes, the borders need to be secured and the laws enforced.  What must we do to get this done?




2.      2.EMPLOYING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS:  It is our understanding that some businesses actually advertise at or near the border of Mexico for illegal immigrant workers.  If this is actually going on and no one is doing anything about it – well! – this would be an example of the MADNESS that makes us MAMs crazy!




In a small business operating legally in this country, if the employee withholding is off by even a few cents or is made late, the penalties, the flurry of letters from the IRS, is unbelievable!  And yet, according to an article in the Jan. 2008 issue of Reader’s Digest (see rd.com) “about $59 billion dollars is lost annually due to underreporting and underpayment of employment taxes.  The article claims that there are about 8 million undocumented workers in this country due to our broken immigration system, who are not paying taxes and who have no withholding.


Instead of running after honest businessmen making minor errors it seems that the government should answer some of these ads by the border, and FINE these businesses!  However, according to the RD article, David Walker of the Government Accountability Office would have us believe that the IRS is “outgunned” by the high priced lawyers employed by these businesses to defend them against such action.  FLOTSAM!  The RD article also says that the government wastes nearly $1 trillion per year.  They should “waste” some of our money to stop businesses from providing the jobs that make illegal immigration so attractive.


3.     3. SETTLED ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS:  General Amnesty for these people is the madness that prompted a public outcry.  (Thank Goodness)  This would make a mockery of our legal system and is unfair to the many legal immigrants who have taken the time and trouble to go through legal channels.  It is also a terrific way for terrorists and those who would prey on our good will to enter this country and eat its heart out.


This is not to say that we want to round them all up, jam them into a bus and send them home.  Many illegal immigrants appreciate what they have here, are hard workers and would do what they have to if the laws were enforced.  We should give those already in the country illegally a choice:  either begin the legal process or go back to your own country.


Not easy you say?  Of course it’s not.  It should not be a maze, though.  If we need to revamp the immigration laws, streamline them, make them easier to understand and to deal with, okay, let’s do it.  We want to find out if they want to be citizens.


Consider this: even for something simple, like a speeding ticket, those charged are asked to do something to show their remorse.  Quite often this is a class, or a certain number of hours of community service work with a nonprofit group of their choice.  In return, their charge may be reduced or they may obtain some other leniency from the court.  Why not do something like this with those already settled here illegally?  They could put their hours in with the government’s immigration office, to offset the need for increased manpower to enforce the immigration laws.  Or they could do something else.  Comments?


4.      4.CHILDREN OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS:  We haven’t heard much debate about this but we are interested in hearing your comments.  Currently, we think it is US policy to declare anyone born in this country a US citizen.  True?  Not?  If it is true, should it be this way?  Many countries do not do this, and if we do, we must decide if we should continue with this policy.  Do we want Osama Bin Laden’s kid to have citizenship in our country just because one of his wives gets in and delivers?




5.      5/ ILLEGAL RIGHT TO SOCIAL PROGRAMS?  We definitely do not think that illegal immigrants should be receiving welfare, disability payments, free health care, educational scholarships or anything else.  They are breaking the law, do not pay taxes and are entitled to NOTHING.  However, obviously there are illegals receiving all of this.  It seems that the people who allowed this to happen should be reprimanded (and maybe fined to help pay for the bus).  And, so as not to be real jerks about all this, the people receiving the benefits should be told that they have got X amount of time before their benefits will end and that they need to begin the process to get legal.  If this sounds harsh, let us hear your comments, please!


6.     6. ILLEGALS IN SCHOOL & COMMUNITY COLLEGES:  As Austin Allran stated in the Winter 2008 issue of Conservative Citizen, “By law, employers cannot hire an illegal immigrant, which makes one wonder why a community college education would be useful.”  Once again, we do not feel these people are entitled to anything in our education system unless they are willing to go through legal channels.  The exception is children through high school age.  They have no control over what their parents do, but once they are of adult age and wish to enter the community college system or a university, they should be forced to go through legal channels just like everyone else. 


7.      7. WHAT WASHINGTON SHOULD DO:  We want to hear your comments.


8.      8. WHAT STATES CAN DO:  North Carolina Governor Mike Easley was quoted in the 2008 Winter edition of Conservative Citizen as saying, “I don’t want any illegal immigrants in North Carolina, and the only way we can stop that is for Washington control the borders … Washington has not acted.”  Easley is passing the buck on this issue.  There are plenty of illegal immigrants employed in North Carolina illegally.  They are being hired by independent contractors and by companies who choose to look the other way about immigration laws.  The state of North Carolina could choose to enforce the current immigration laws while they are waiting for Washington to do something about the border.  If nothing else, they could do it through the NC Department of Revenue.  By law employers must also deduct state withholding, which of course requires a Tax ID number, which illegal immigrants do not have.  Other suggestions?


9.      9. WHAT CITIES CAN DO:  Some of the things that we have heard cities doing to curb or reduce the illegal population include requiring landlords to ask for proof of citizenship before renting a dwelling, and increasing fines on businesses that hire illegal immigrants.  What should our cities do?


10.  10. WHAT MAM MEMBERS CAN DO:  Of course, the first thing all members should do is send the MAM website to five new people if you have already sent it to everyone in your address book.  Secondly, give us your ideas.  We could, of course, e-mail, write or phone various politicians who may be able to do something about all this, but ….


But let’s get creative and get people talking.  We could … attach something to our cars to make a statement, have a rally, send all e-mails to one politician, real mail to another, phone calls to another; contact someone semi-famous who will speak for us; call all the radio stations and ask to have a song played to get a specific result, get a state rep to challenge cities, a mayor to challenge the state; enlist the help of a big business that wants to set an example; let all our dogs run loose at an appointed hour (JK!!!!!!) or something that only YOU have got in your brain.  Tell us what it is – we want to be heard because we want to STOP THE MADNESS.  Don’t get MAD, get something done!  Join MAM today.


2008-03-15 15:16:56 GMT
Comments (7 total)
Author:Anonymous
Check this article out from 2/23/2008- this came from a newspaper from California. Perhaps if we had adopted this type of protocol in the first place on deporting illegal, repeat criminals, we wouldn't have to do it now - in such large numbers:

"ESCONDIDO ---- In an inaugural three-day sweep that ended Friday, Escondido police took into custody 15 criminal illegal immigrants, people who have been formally deported from the country only to return. The sweep was empowered by a new department policy that allows officers to check the immigration status of almost any suspect, drawing criticism from Latino activists.

According to authorities, the operation marked the first time a local police force in the region has specifically targeted the criminal illegal immigrant population, although regional law enforcement agencies have worked previously with federal authorities to deport gang members in the country illegally...."


Imagine, being able to enforce the law and being allowed to do their job, protecting the citizens from people who don't obey the law (repeatedly)!
2008-03-16 02:06:45 GMT
Author:Anonymous
I have blogged on this topic so much and debated every topic above to some extent. If interested see my blog at http://triadblogs.com/BrendaFayBowers under the Category: Immigration. Or see my blog at http:///BrendaBowers.wordpress.com as I have been experiencing trouble with the first blog site.

Several comment:
4. It is the law of the land that any child born on American soil is automatically an American citizen. Pregnant women have forever taken terrible chances to get into this country to have their babies here so that they then can remain as the baby's relative and caretaker. They of course also become eligible to apply on the baby's behalf for welfare.
One can hardly blame the women as I, and I am sure you too, would try to get a much better life for your child. The need for greater and much better border security to stop this action at the source.

1. Border security: Robert Frost said it best, "good fences make good neighbors". It has to start here with a good and secure fence. The problem is that many ranchers on the border are fighting the building of the fence. So the representatives in Congress of these well off ranchers who operate with immigrant labor are allowing for actual "holes" or entries to be left in the fence now being built.

2. Employing illegal aliens: all you say above is true. Here again big companies and big ranchers and farmers making big money off of the cheap immigrant labor and "buying" Congressmen. We really can't blame the immigrants for wanting the work because if your family was starving you would cross the border for a job too. Most when asked really don't want to come to the United States. This is especially true of Hispanics who are very family oriented and have to leave these families when they come here. They would stay home if they had the jobs there. This is the fault of the ever corrupt Central and South American governments which goes back to the early days of the colonies when only a few migrated to these areas and became the rich land owners who used the native populations to become rich thus creating a two layered population: the very rich and the extremely poor with no middle class. The United States and Canada on the other hand were populated with immigrants wishing to bring their families and settle the land as their own. The native populations were exploited not for their labor which wasn't wanted, but they were forced off their land which was. That is how and why our country grew as a multi-leveled society that could thrive and compete with enough jobs for our people that they didn't have to immigrate across borders for the very food on their tables. European counties are having this same immigrant problem with people coming from the Middle East and Africa.

3. We must make some laws in which those immigrants here can become citizens. The one proposed whereby they return to their own country and then apply and be given preference was down right stupid! Many of our illegal immigrants have been in this country for 20 or 30 years. This then IS their country and in no way are they going to submit to going back where they have no family and reapplying to come back. The system needs to be changed to allow these people to start the process towards gaining citizenship just as if they had come here legally. Otherwise they will remain hidden and illegal.
After A time for enrollment in this system any registered immigrant arrested for a felony is to be given a one way ticket out of our country Any immigrant not registered and arrested for anything should be sent back across the border.
We can not possibly round them all up and transport them but we certainly can transport them when we have them in custody. Now we just let them go.

5. We can't let these people starve or die on our streets, but we don't have to do what we are doing. After the immigrants are registered in the citizenship program they can get help.

I have over stayed.
--Brenda Bowers
2008-03-17 16:26:28 GMT
Author:Anonymous
Dear Anonymous,
Thanks for your input. Maybe this is where we should start -- by just enforcing the laws that we already have available. To be effective we need to narrow things down, though, and focus on one action. How could we get local or state officials to do the same here? Suggestions?

--1MAM
2008-03-20 04:22:42 GMT
Author:Anonymous
Dear Brenda,
Thanks for your comments. You have obviously put a lot of thought into this problem. It is so big, though, it is difficult to know where to begin. If we were going to focus on one action to bring about the most benefit to help slow this problem what would you suggest? We could move onto another aspect of the problem later.
--1MAM
2008-03-20 04:29:06 GMT
Author:Anonymous
Sorry I haven't been back for a while.

The first problem I would work on after securing the borders of course, is education. There is no rounding up and sending illegal aliens back as it is an impossible task. There are too many of them. I suggest we send back those who are arrested for any, and I mean any, infraction of our laws. We aren't doing that now; we are just letting them go.

Anyhow, back to the issue. The illegal aliens are here to stay so we have to admit that and deal with it. We need to help these people assimilate into our culture. We do this with education. When my grandparents came from Russia in 1910 the public schools offered classes in English and reading English for immigrants free of charge on nights and weekends. It worked! Adults lined up to get in to these classes according to my grandfather. He was enrolled within a week of getting off the ship. We need to offer these same classes in English and getting along in our society so as to help these people become "Americans". It is not that they don't want to learn, it is that it is hard to learn English just from what daily contact they have during work. Formal lessons are needed where both the men and the women can attend and so that English can become the language used in the home. Children use English at school and then Spanish at home so as a result their English tends to be limited or difficult to understand when they speak. In short, we need to educate the adults. Brenda Bowers
--Brenda Bowers
<mailto:[email protected]>
2008-05-17 21:33:37 GMT
Author:Anonymous
I read an article about illegal immigrants being eligible for organ donation - free of charge - and in some cases, they were bumped up to the top of the list, regardless of how long others had been on the list. The article stated that these illegal immigrants had specifically come to the U.S. to receive a transplant and the doctors involved saw an ethical problem with not giving them first-rate care, regardless of payment, just because they were illegal immigrants. This seems very wrong to me.
--Anonymous
2008-06-05 21:01:31 GMT
Author:Anonymous
I don't think the problem is that the ILLEGAL immigrants should be taught free english classes or be given' top of the list' organ donation. The problem begins at the beginning. THEY ARE HERE ILLEGALLY!!! IL-LEGALLY ---that means NOT LAWFULLY--IT IS AGAINST THE LAW.ONE DAY THEY MADE A CONSIOUS DECISION TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES ILLEGALLY. THAT WAS WHERE THEY MADE THEIR BIG MISTAKE , IN MY OPINION. At some point I think we need to give these people credit for having brains. No matter how poor, overcrowded, or pitiful these people are in their own country, THEY KNOW THE LAW. "They just want to make life better for their children", you say. Well, I would love to run away with my children to FANTASYLAND too, but, if it is against the law, I CAN NOT DO IT , no matter what kind of "BETTER LIFE " I want for my children.
2008-07-26 15:22:24 GMT
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