"One could scarcely refer to the majority of that population as being "Indo-European" by ethnicity, whatever that would mean. They're visibly non-caucasian"
Loborubro wrote:
> .. Precisely.
Precisely what, sir (or madame as the case may be)? This is a point that weighs against the validity of your position, not in favor of it. You casually equate a philological relationship between languages, with a genetic relationship between those speaking those languages, which you then casually relate to a relationship between their cultures, ignoring the reality that the cultural slate can be wiped clean.
An obvious example : one has the visibly non-mongolian population of modern Turkey speaking an Altaic language, telling folk tales about their ancestors' time of slavery in western China. Cultural transmission has obviously occurred here, without a substantial flow of genetic material.
In the case of Mexico, the visibly non-european population of Mexico isn't merely speaking a language related to that of Spain, they are speaking a dialect of that very language, far more closely related to the language of any place in Castile, than are any of the non-castilian Romance languages, much less any of the Germanic ones. Yet, Loborubro maintains that there is a closer relationship by blood between the Germans and the Spanish, than there is between the Mexicans and the Spanish. How can s/he seriously maintain that this is a confirmation of a theory that holds that closeness in language implies closeness in ancestry?
Let's add that such an assertion flies in the face of available DNA evidence. The Finns speak a language in the Uralic-Altaic grouping (*), yet not only do they resemble other Scandinavians, available genetic markers indicate that they are in fact related to their western neighbors. Here, one has an apparently "Indo-European" people speaking a blatantly non-Indo-European language, if we are to take the Swedes, who are related to the Finns, as being an Indo-European people.
Loborubro writes :
> .. --- In ReligioRomana@y..., medius@m... wrote:
>
> .. > .. Language is not ethnicity.
>
> .. But <<indo-europeanity>> is ethnicity,
> .. or, at least, a proto-ethnicity.
But, as we can see, it is not. Taken as an ethnic classification, "Indo-Europeanaity" (sic) takes us into a maze of logical contradictions that one can't seem to get out of. With all due apologies to Godwin, one can't help be reminded of World War Two era German racial doctrine, which ended up asserting that the Germans, Italians and the Japanese were all "Aryans", as well as the Sioux Indians as well, if I recall correctly. (One of their propagandists turned out to have a Native American grandmother. Transatlantic immigration doesn't just go one way).
Loborubro writes:
> .. > .. May I suggest to our Asatruar visitor that
> .. > .. the Romans were far from the first
> .. > .. Indo-European people to conquer a
> .. > .. non-Indo-European speaking population,
> .. > .. without eliminating it? Note that the population
> .. > .. of northern India bears little physical resemblance
> .. Resemblance enough. Some of their faces are
> .. remarkably european. And such proximity is
> .. even more evident when one compare the
> .. Iranians, and the Curds, with the Europeans.
I'm in a position to make that comparison every time I talk to my department head or advisor, or drop by a sweet shop on Devon. (Indian milk sweets - you really must try them, if you ever get the chance). From first hand experience, I can tell you that my Tunisian ex-girlfriend has a far better shot at passing herself off as a European, than any Asian Indian I have ever seen, and Chicago is Indian immigration central in the US. I might say the same about myself, and as with most people of partially Sephardic extraction, my "Indo-Europeanaity" may be suspect.
Here's the question for you : when my ancestors became US citizens, and started speaking English, did we slowly start mutating into Anglo-Saxons, or has language become detached from ethnicity? If it has today, what makes Loborubro so absolutely sure that it hasn't in the past? Let me add that the only blond hair that has been seen in my family lately has come out of a bottle of peroxide.
Mutation would seem to be a slow process.
Click here to continue.
(*) To be precise, it is a member of the Finno-Ugric subfamily of the Uralic languages.