Paradise: Land of the Meat Puppets
Notes From Underground
March 1983
The following is an interview transcribed almost in it's entirety. The group is the Meat Puppets. The time Is March 1983. The place is the Meat Puppets dining room, somewhere In Glendale Ariz. READ AND ENJOY!
NFU - Tony Victor
Derrick Bostrom - Drums
Curt Kirkwood
Guitar, vocals
Cris Kirkwood Bass, vocals
NFU: Describe, if any, the
effect drugs have on your music
Curt: They don't have any effect on my
music. They effect my ability to play it. The music is always at a certain point
at a certain time with me, so if I take drugs, it just distorts the way I
perceive or translate at that time. But it's always at a certain point, more or
less.
Derrick: All lies, all lies! Well, I have all these pet theories,
and, of course, theories are are things that haven't been proven yet, so you
should take my theories with a grain of salt...The pot helps keep us...It makes
the weakest link in any arguement seem, ah...If I'm going to do something...No,
if I have the choice of doing eight different things, I can get stoned and some
of the things will seem out of the question and others I'll be able to do. Drugs
never kept me from making music. They have kept me from doing other things. For
instance, if we get ripped off by a promoter, and we're really stoned, we won't
even care; at least for the moment. Drugs help me focus or the music -- in
theory.
NFU: Do you think music can have an effect on
change?
Curt: I think that as I watch, I know that it does because
everything that is in society has an effect on social change because everything
changes. I think that say like if you were to explode a nuclear device somewhere
downtown, it would have a bigger effect on society. I think that, society is
vanishing and at this point I'd like to reach out and touch each and every one
of the readers.
NFU: Can I use that lighter for a second?
Derrick:
Sure.
NFU: What direction do you think the human race Is heading
in?
C: I think it's disappearing.
NFU: Can it be
stopped?
C: I don't see why anyone would want to stop it. I mean, what
good has it ever been?
NFU: So you don't worry about political
issues?
C: I don't think I'm accurately informed on any of that stuff.
All I get to read is the newspaper. All you ever get is second-hand
information.
D: I'm very opinionated about the press but I don't know
anything about the facts.
C: I mean,let's all get worked up about a
little note that somebody drops by; and that's all it amounts to.
NFU: Do
you think there's an absolute good and evil?
D: Yeah, and your looking at
him. No, I think there's an "absolute" but not a good and evil.
C: I
don't know, that sounds pretty abstract. To me, it sounds abstract because I can
only feel so good before I'm reminded of how bad I can feel. I relate good and
bad just to my own personal feelings.
D: Do you think good and evil can
be defined? That's almost the same question.In thinking that there is a good and
evil -- that might be evil.
K: I specifically say no,there is no good or
evil. That's a totally absurd, primitive, pagan concept.Every form of life is
only Reality Documentation. There reality,and then there's the documentation of
it. There's no such thing as true experieince. It's all separated from real life
as far as I'm concerned. The mind, being the way it is, won't allow us to have
the experience of life. Life is the truth and this is the documentation of it.
And we take our document with us into the truth and match wits with the worms.
I'm just being funny, that's all.
NFU: What is a Meat Puppet?
D:
Generally, most people who ask what it is already know.The song,"Meat Puppets"
goes, "Meat Puppets can do this, this, this, this and this; Meat Puppets can do
anything; Meat Puppets can also do this, this,this, this and this; and this is
what I think about that".
C: Our subtitle is,"Reality
Documentationalists". It means, try as you will to do anyhing in a graceful
way...the truth is always way different than the way you percieve it, and so
your at odds with nature literally. What art would be is basically an outcry and
a protest against nature; that gives it no boundary. That would make nature the
string puller; and Meat Puppets is just a way of saying "Reality
Documentationalizer
Experianceist".
D: To me, the best may to control
your life would be to not control your life. By taking control of your life in
the common respect would be to merely react to circumstances under which you
have no control so you're not really in control of your life. But,if you ignore
the things that affect you...In a sense, not to take control is the only way to
take control.
NFU: So thoughtlessness is something to be
achieved?
C: Oh,we already have utter thoughtlessness.
D: The
band,when we first played together,we played so good that we were able to make
the music our foundation.We started with good music, so that leaves us an awful
lot of time to spend on other efforts; to really experiment with what happens on
earth and document it. I don't really understand Documentar
Realization.
C: It's everythingl It's like there's a truth,but....
D: But what about people like Nixon who don't think that way. They never
find that out and they confound me.
C: Their lives are exactly the same
as ours because there's no way you can hit upon a documentation that is original
in any way. It's all just cleverness; and walking is a ploy; thinking is a ploy;
living is a ploy; it's all a ploy.
(Conversation quickly changes to the
relationship between Derrick and audience)
D: I wanted to stay in touch
with the humans, but I realize that, just like in real life, I can't like
members of the audience if I don't know them. I can't remain accessible to the
audience because there is no audience, there's just people I don't know as
opposed to people I'm intimate with. It's like I realize that the concept of
accessibility is not real and that all it really comes down to is letting people
walk all
over you.
NFU: Can art be prostituted?
C: No, it
can't; the concept of life itself is a prostitution.
D: No,we don't
prostitute our music,we date our music, we go Dutch Treat with our
music.
NFU: How often are you happy?
D: That's a very relative
question. In some respects I'm happy all the time; in some respects I'm happy
none of the time. Uh,most of the time I'm happy.
C: I'm sick of being
just happy. I wanna be...
D: King?
C: No, I'm sick of being just
happy. I think the government should set up a program that would keep me
ecstatic continually.
NFU: What would keep you ecstatic
continually?
C: I don't know. I think they should figure it
out.
D: I'm not happy that pot is against the law; that I can't get more
pot; that smoking pot hurts my health; that smoking pot costs a lot of money;
that people...
C: That they hated the man and that he was a
robot?
D: I'm not happy that people who don't smoke pot are difficult to
comprehend. I know that I have explored my alternatives, so I'm happy
enough.
C: Don't you think our lives lend us pitifully little conclusive
evidence to deal with?
NFU: Does that mean we are all in a constant state
of confusion?
C: Yes. Confusion envelopes that
question....
(Subject changes)
C: He's (Tony) not gonna be able to
transcribe this interview...
NFU: No, I'll do it alright.
D: If he
can make up the questions he can edit it, too.
C: Alright then, I'd like
to kill everyone; and walk on the little guy, stomp, mutilate....
NFU:
What's your favorite pastime, aside from music and drugs?
D: Well, I
personally had always put more of my eggs into the writing and drawing area than
in the music area....Living....Reading....
NFU: Do you have any goals
and ambitions?
D: Well, Curt talked about how held like to step on the
little guy already.
NFU: I'm prettly little!
C: No, come on now, I
didn't mean it that way. I meant all little people. That was just figurative,
it's a media term.
Chris: Oh,are you doing the interview?
NFU:
Yes.
Ch: I've got to go to the store.
NFU: Do you like living in
Phoenix?
D: Yes.
C: I like to think in terms of Phoenix living off
me.
NFU: Tell me some things about your national tour.
D:
Well,there was a lot of these hateful things about the Bad Brains while we were
on tour and when we got back and it's nobody's business what I do!
NFU:
So you don't want to talk about the tour.
D: No, I do. One of the things
I want to talk about is how fucked everybody is (who said) "Well,the Bad Brains
don't like homosexuals and the Bad Brains are thieves" and it's just racism.
People who don't like the Bad Brains are racists.
NFU: You think that
people who don't like them shouldn't say so?
D: They should but if they
do then they run the risk of being thought stupid by me. I can see right through
their petty, stupid little argumerts and they are wrong.
(conversation
returns to pop music)
C: I think the stuff on the radio today is top
notch. I don't care what anybody says. I think anyone that comes up with a
negative reality documentation must have a brain tumor.
NFU: Oh
yeah?
C: Sure,it's obvious.
D: I don't even like records that
much.
C: See,Derrirk has got a really big brain tumor; it's the size of a
basketball.
D: He doesn't know what he's taking about. I'm just trying to
answer the questions. I don't give a shit if people understand me. And I don't
have a brain tumor; I'm healthy.
C: Wait! Here's the thing that I just
realized that I have to say. Besides the bullshit we've spewed out, ,the Meat
Puppets are indeed the greatest band that you'd hope for, the band that will
stay out of your way and produce the great music...
D: Yeah, what do I
have to say? If anybody wants to read this and pay attention to the words,
please feel free to. If anybody wants to ignore what I've said, please feel free
to as well because that is equally valid.
C: Oh wow! He's giving the
audience the opportunity of freedom.
NFU: What a swell guy.
D: No,
I'm trying to make a point. What I'm. trying to say is it's not
historical....
C: Well, I don't know about you, Tony, but I don't think I
want to give the audience that choice. Do you?
NFU: I don't think thay
have any choice whether Derrick gives it to them or not. I think we are all
devoid of choice.
C: I tend to agree with that. I'll go along with
anything that will keep me from disagreeing.
D: Well, any of the readers
that could get pissed at me, had better.T hat's the way I feel.
C:
Derrick swallows jism and doesn't spit it out.
D: 1 don't see how you can
say that about me. That would be misconstrued immediately. These....These people
who don't like me....
C: Hey! If the Bad Brains are listening, I'd like
to say that was a joke!
D: Look, these people who don't like me
C: You denied having a tumor, right? Derrick denied the tumor, right?(To
Tony)
D: I don't have a tumor! I don't have a brain tumor!
C: A
basketball-sized brain tumor.
D: My head's not even the size of a
basketball. I don't know what you're talking about. If you're gonna get semantic
on me, I'm gonna tell you that all my answers are conceived around the
interview. My conceptual brain may or nay not be tumored, but my actual
brain
certainly is not.
NFU: (To Curt) So I guess he does deny
it.
C: Yep.
D: Of course I deny it!
C: That's the classic
sign of someone that has sorething wrong with their head, is that they won't
admit it.
D: What if I said that I admitted having something wrong with
my head?
C: Why would you want to go around spouting it off like that?
Why would you want, to make it a public announcement? I wouldn't,
myself.
D: You brang up the concept of a brain tumor because you said
that anybody who would come up with anything but positive reality projection
must have a brain tumor. Well, obviously I don't have a brain tumor: what have I
said that's negative? You're just projecting your own negativity off on me. I'm
taking all this in good faith.
C: Wait a second.I'm the one who said you
had a brain tumor; I'm the one with the credibility at stake!
D:
Yeah,well, I know what you mean, but I can't see why you would want to appear to
discredit me regardless of what your true intentions were. The people who read
this mag are animals.
C: No! Don't tell them that!
D: I could give
a shit!
C: Now what if there is some girl out there reading this that
might want to take your stiff,moss covered, elastic penis up her?
D: I
can't take time for beauty, Curt, I'm trying to rush through my life as quickly
as possible.
C: I know, but what if she has a vagina the size of a life
preserver? People are trained not to think about filthy stuff.
D: I do
all the time.
C: They're not trained to deal with too open knowledge of
everyone knowing that, ah...
D: Well, I'd like everyone to know that my
penis is covered with moss.
C: Right! They're not trained to deal with
everyone hearing the word penis at one time.
D: Not penis, but other
words are ok. We're just working up to penis.We're just slow.
C: Well,
penis is just too rubberry a word.
D: I have faith in the human race. I
think they'll oneday be able to approach the word penis.
C: I don't know
about faith but I think that as the human beings fade off into the distance, I'd
like to call out to them: PENIS!
D: I don't see why people like
us.
C: Because for a quarter (50 cents),they get to hear another chapter
of your faulty, tumor-affected documentation.
D: My words are worth a
million dollars and I am seriously giving them to Mr.Victor for free.And, if in
the course of our relationship I ever feel the need to remind Mr. Victor that I
gave him these words for free,I will.
C: Hi.This is Curt Kirkwood and
under orders from Derrick Bostrom I am physically forcing Tony to beg Derrick
for his advice. Thank you Tony.
D: It's like all these bands that don't
think there is any business involved are just getting ripped off really badly;
like me, for instance.
NFU: You don't think there's any business
involved?
D: I do,but I'm getting ripped off anyway. No, we're all
getting ripped off in one way or another.
K: Right. It's a big fight
against nature.
D: I'm preaching the line of non-acceptance to the my
things are. That's why I have a brain tumor. Curt doesn't have to worry,
though,because I accept him the way he is.
C: Yeah,we have decided that
my tumor is to remain a secret.
D: I love it, because the people who
don't like me will attack me whether there is a reason or not, so why should I
be consistant? The people who like me are gonna be able to see through that
anyway. The people who like me for the wrong reasons are gonna get the worst of
it in the long run anyway,one way or another.
NFU: Do you dislike
anybody?
D: Not for very long.
NFU: Is anything
important?
D: Yeah.What I think is important.
C: Our fans are
important. Our record-buying audience is important. They are among the most
important people in the world. They cherish our munitions and put bread on our
table. Relatively important.
NFU: Would you like to say anything in
closing?
D: I'm still looking for an angel with a broken wing.
C:
I'm still looking for an angel that can give head and cook at the same
time.
D: That's not fair, you should have asked us in seperate
rooms.