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#: 253 S1/Collation & Chats
    05-Oct-92  08:51:13
Sb: #Call To Work!
Fm: Carl Lopez 73100,2526
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil;

Over in SafetyNet we've been campaigning for a seperate law enforcement forum
forever (at least it seems so). As one who has successfully made the split,
what advice can you give?

-Carl



There is 1 Reply.

#: 262 S1/Collation & Chats
    05-Oct-92  09:35:25
Sb: #253-Call To Work!
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Carl Lopez 73100,2526

The best advice is to write a proposal to CIS that treats it very much as a
business proposition. You need to convince CIS that you can, and will, atract
NEW customers and not just be pushing the existing customers from Forum to
Forum....
-- Neil

#: 296 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  00:23:25
Sb: Call To Work!
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil,
I have made it a Masonic and Work policy that Friday nights are reserved for
the observance of the Sabbath.
Just my 2 cents...
Scott 

#: 269 S1/Collation & Chats
    05-Oct-92  19:16:23
Sb: #213-Call To Work!
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: Allan E. Elliott 100033,1572 (X)

Bro. Allan: All magazines are send via surface (sea) mail because of the cost.
The PSoc subsidizes all "foreign" memberships without adding to the cost by
using airmail. I'll have to check the additional cost for sending a 4 oz
publication via air and let you know. 'Tis good to have you with us. Best.
Allen

#: 254 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    05-Oct-92  09:23:37
Sb: #233-Membership Matters
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Barry Axelrood, PM 76350,3650

Barry --
I feel the same way about mailings. A 10% response would be very, very good. I
am thinking that perhaps a telephone "tree" could be setup so that ten or
fifteen active members could each make maybe ten calls to Brothers inviting
them to a Communication...
-- Neil

#: 304 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  00:23:52
Sb: #233-Membership Matters
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Barry Axelrood, PM 76350,3650

Wor. Barry,
Welcome!  I presume by the PM after you name that you are indicating you are a
Past Master of a Blue Lodge.  I am very glad you found your way to our new
Forum here.  How did you find us?  Would you mind sharing with me you Blue
Lodge name and location for my records?  Thanks.

I just wanted to jump in here to extend an official welcome to you.  Please
don't hesitate to write if I can do anything to make your visits here more
enjoyable.
Wor. Scott Sherman, Sysop
PM of Waltham Triad Lodge, Waltham, MA -- Living in MD 

#: 255 S2/History/Symbolism
    05-Oct-92  09:24:04
Sb: #234-Born In Blood
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Paul M. Bessel 71041,365 (X)

Paul --
I will hope that is one of the ones being presented! Thanks,
-- Neil

#: 281 S2/History/Symbolism
    05-Oct-92  21:09:18
Sb: #223-#Born In Blood
Fm: Mark Spangler 72157,105
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil now that you mention it the library of the lodge that I worked in in
Germany had a copy of that book.  I think that portions were taken and placed
the TLML.  I wonder how many other books of great interest are out there that
are of age and we are rewriting them?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 328 S2/History/Symbolism
    06-Oct-92  10:04:20
Sb: #281-Born In Blood
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Mark Spangler 72157,105

Mark --
I guess that is one of the "things" about History in any field -- many things
get rediscovered and reapproached. One can only hope that such a rediscovery at
least brings a new view, a new perspective on the facts. I think this is why
organizations such as The Philalethes are so important -- they bring together
various scholars and their work which, otherwise, might never leave a local, or
even national research Lodge....
-- Neil

#: 302 S2/History/Symbolism
    06-Oct-92  00:23:45
Sb: #223-#Born In Blood
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Bro. Neil,
Did I ever mention that I used to be a member of the SCA?

I had not heard the etymology you mention for the term Freemasonry.  The
generally accepted point (at least as far as I understand it) is that it
indicated men who were free to travel around Europe to where the work (Lodges)
were.  They were not endentured servants to be held to a piece of property (a
town or manor estate or what have you).

Wor. Scott 

There are 2 Replies.

#: 332 S2/History/Symbolism
    06-Oct-92  10:26:59
Sb: #302-#Born In Blood
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645 (X)

Scott --
Yes, that is the generally-accepted explanation. But like most things in
History which seem "obvious" to people in modern times, it might have been far
more complex back then. I know that I have never been satisfied with the
explanation of free to travel. Try to put yourself into a medieval mindset. It
was not that indentured masons would be considering themselves the opposite of
free -- slave. Those masons who the Guild expected to remain at home would have
felt themselves just as worthy and as "free" as their traveling brothers. In
medieval times one had their place -- and one's place was not neccessarily
"better" or "worse" then another's but just different. I have always felt that
it was unlikely that a Mason who built homes and businesses, government
buildings and more all in one locality would consider himself any the less
"free" then one of his continent-travelling Brothers who built cathedrals in
various communities.

Free as in freedom is a very modern concept. Indeed, a good case could be made
that freedom as we understand it was a concept advanced by Masons after the
Fraternity became speculative. So, I think that explanation tends to use a
modern word in an anachronistic setting for its useage.

To _me_ the idea of a freemason being one authorized to work freely in stone
without template makes more sense. Unfortunately, when we get to this type of
discussion no one has as yet found any proof toward any one of the many
explanations. Someday, though, perhaps...

I am reminded that for three hundred and more years most people thought that
Malory had written Le Mort D'Arthur with dozens of chapter headings and with
illogical flow. Not until Vinaver found a copy of Malory's MS in Winchester
Cathedral in 1947 did people realize what a great author he was and what
liberties editor Caxton took with his work.

It may yet be another hundred years before a Masonic MS or Rosetta Stone is
found. Or, maybe, tomorrow....
-- Neil

There is 1 Reply.

#: 423 S2/History/Symbolism
    07-Oct-92  23:46:19
Sb: #332-Born In Blood
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401

An excellent post Neil.  As you are correct in that we do not know for sure
then we can speculate, within reason, all around what we are talking about
here.
Scott 

#: 353 S2/History/Symbolism
    06-Oct-92  17:03:51
Sb: #302-#Born In Blood
Fm: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123
To: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645 (X)

Scott: A good lodge friend of mine was a King in the SCA.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 424 S2/History/Symbolism
    07-Oct-92  23:46:24
Sb: #353-Born In Blood
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123

Brian,
Nice job if you can get it.  The only way to being a King of one of the SCA
Kingdoms was via the route of combat.  Those of us in the gentler arts never
stood a chance.
Scott 

#: 273 S2/History/Symbolism
    05-Oct-92  19:44:37
Sb: #250-#Born In Blood
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bill: The Northern Jurisdiction doesn't follow Pike's work. In fact, it stays
way clear of it. So Morals and Dogma won't help Neil, or anyone else in the

NJ.  Best, Allen

There is 1 Reply.

#: 314 S2/History/Symbolism
    06-Oct-92  02:58:06
Sb: #273-Born In Blood
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741 (X)

Thanks Allen -- Obviously I did not know this. Interesting. Sure learn
something new in the Forum everyday. <G> ----> Bill

#: 277 S2/History/Symbolism
    05-Oct-92  20:46:33
Sb: #250-#Born In Blood
Fm: Paul M. Bessel 71041,365
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bro. Bill:

I think I can comment fairly freely since I'll be paraphrasing "A Bridge To
Light", a book which was given to me when I completed my Scottish Rite degrees.

The 30th degree is specifically based on the suppression of the Knights Templar
and the burning at the stake of Jacques DeMolay.  During the degree, there are
lessons that, I believe, are exactly what "Born in Blood" shows to be the best
elements of the merger of the Templars, after their persecution, with the
beginning elements of modern Freemasonry.  As pointed out in "A Bridge to
Light", a crown is used to represent kings and emperors who abused power and
reigned for themselves and not the people, who robbed free people of their
liberty.  A tiara is symbolic of ignorance that enslaved humanity through fear
and superstition.  Candidates are taught that we will advance the cause of
human progress through freedom and equal rights.

These are the highest ideals of Freemasonry.  I like to think that Robinson is
correct in his thesis that Templars adopted these ideas in response to their
persecution, and that they then promoted them in Freemasonry until these ideals
prevailed in Western thought during the Enlightenment.  Freedom of thought,
freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of conscience are at the
core of Masonry, and what the United States stands for.

This is why I suggested that Neil and others pay the closest attention to the
30th degree in Scottish Rite, and this is why I enjoy participating in
presenting it each year.

Fraternally,

Paul

There are 2 Replies.

#: 315 S2/History/Symbolism
    06-Oct-92  02:58:11
Sb: #277-Born In Blood
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Paul M. Bessel 71041,365 (X)

Bro. Paul,

I appreciate your explaination regarding the 30th degree. It has been about 15
years since I witnessed this one and had forgotten. As a Sr. DeMolay it was
memorable but I did not remember what degree it was in. From your fine
explaination I can better understand why you enjoy participating in this
particular degree. Thanks.

----> Bill /DL (PM Mt. Diablo #448-Concord, Calif)

#: 344 S2/History/Symbolism
    06-Oct-92  12:14:31
Sb: #277-#Born In Blood
Fm: William A. Siebert 70421,3064
To: Paul M. Bessel 71041,365 (X)

You, of course mean the Southern 30th.  The Northern 30th derives also from the
historic Knights Templar, but recalls a happier period in Templar history: when
the Templars were created for the protection of Christians making pilgrimages
to Jerusalem (then newly captured from the Islamic power).

                                       -- WAS, 32d Degree

There are 2 Replies.

#: 374 S2/History/Symbolism
    06-Oct-92  23:11:27
Sb: #344-#Born In Blood
Fm: Paul M. Bessel 71041,365
To: William A. Siebert 70421,3064 (X)

Thanks for telling me the difference in the 30th degree between the Northern
and Southern jurisdictions of the Scottish Rite.  I'd be interested in
attending a reunion of the Northern jurisdiction some time so I can see all the
differences and similarities.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 403 S2/History/Symbolism
    07-Oct-92  19:00:05
Sb: #374-Born In Blood
Fm: William A. Siebert 70421,3064
To: Paul M. Bessel 71041,365 (X)

Interesting!  I would be interested in seeing the Southern Jurisdiction work
someday.  Maybe we should get together <g> ...

#: 385 S2/History/Symbolism
    07-Oct-92  04:28:00
Sb: #344-Born In Blood
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: William A. Siebert 70421,3064 (X)

Bro. Bill & Paul,

At a pre-Stated meeting dinner this evening I took the oppportunity to study my
place mat. It showed various organizations within the Masonic Family. I have
'seen' this before but realize that I had never really studied it. I now see
that some of the degrees in the Northern and Southern Jurisdictions of the SR
do vary. I wonder if that is why there IS a No. & So. Jurisdiction? Never would
have stopped to consider this had it not been for your comments. Thanks.

----> Bill

#: 256 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    05-Oct-92  09:24:59
Sb: #235-Candidate Presentations
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Dick Leurig 72245,1503 (X)

Hi Dick --
I really like the idea of inviting the families to attend, that's a nice touch!
-- Neil

#: 258 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    05-Oct-92  09:29:06
Sb: #239-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Hi Bill --
Yes, I think if I do certificates that I will go that route. The holdup on what
I have is some processing where I apply gold-toned tape to the main headline,
run it through the Laserwriter again and it comes out looking like gold type.
VERY pretty but that extra step is a killer!
-- Neil

There is 1 Reply.

#: 313 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  02:58:02
Sb: #258-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil --- Gold-tone lettering? That sounds beautiful. Never tried the metalic?
tape. Got a catalog on it some time back but never ordered anything from it. I
believe thats the same one that had a lot of certificate blanks to choose from.
----> Bill

There is 1 Reply.

#: 334 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  10:30:45
Sb: #313-Candidate Presentations
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

The goldtone tape is wonderful but it takes a relatively long time to apply.
For one or two documents it would be easy....
-- Neil

#: 272 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    05-Oct-92  19:35:00
Sb: #225-Candidate Presentations
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

NeilN [A Neil: Forget Kiltzner!!! See my previous message about pins. Allen

#: 298 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  00:23:33
Sb: #192-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bro. Bill,
No, you were correct, Klitzner only requires minimum quantities on special
orders (unique for your Lodge, for example).  You can by onesies of all the
general stuff.
Wor. Scott 

There is 1 Reply.

#: 320 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  03:55:03
Sb: #298-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645 (X)

Wor. Scott -- Advisement notice. Bro. Roberts has taken exception to Klitzner's
catalog. Don't know why yet. Thanks for the update. ---> Bill

There is 1 Reply.

#: 363 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  19:35:41
Sb: #320-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bill: NO, NO. I ain't taking exception to Klitzner's catalog -- only to the
special work they'll do -- for an enormous die and per piece cost. The stuff in
their catalogs appears fairly reasonable; their special work ain't. Best Allen

There is 1 Reply.

#: 388 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    07-Oct-92  04:28:16
Sb: #363-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741 (X)

Allen --- Thanks for restating your position. Guess I misunderstood you. You
know the old saying 'When EF Hutton speaks ...'. This same thing could apply to
a person by the name Allen Roberts. <G>

----> Bill

There is 1 Reply.

#: 400 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    07-Oct-92  18:21:08
Sb: #388-Candidate Presentations
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bill: No harm done. I'm often misunderstood -- or misquoted -- or missomething
or other. Best [D, Allen

#: 257 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    05-Oct-92  09:26:55
Sb: #236-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Dick Leurig 72245,1503 (X)

Hi Dick --
As near as I can tell from the catalogs, my cost for a pin would be $2.50 to
$3.50 apiece for a quantity of around 300. That's a little more then I would
want to advance up front but.... Well, let's see what my Prod Mgr. at CIS has
to suggest....
-- Neil

There is 1 Reply.

#: 414 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    07-Oct-92  20:53:58
Sb: #257-Candidate Presentations
Fm: Mark R. Sandstrom 72406,303
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401

Bro. Neil:

I talked with a local company that does pins all over the USA for mainly
masonic organizations.  Those who run the company are masons SR and Shriners. 
I asked them about making a pin for our lodge and was very pleased with the
proposed cost: 81 cents each and a die charge of $50.  If you are interested:
        Clarepin Co.
        1637 Mural Dr.
        Claremont, CA  91711
        Sam Rollos and Chet Olson
        (714)985-7633
        (714)624-4301

If you would like me to do some checking further I will.

Bro. Neil 

#: 270 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    05-Oct-92  19:26:52
Sb: #228-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil: I have connections for having pins (and other stuff [D) manufactured. If
you decide the pin is a good idea, let me know and if you want me to I'll have
them made. No money will have to exchange hands. I'll make it my contribution
to the good work being done here. Best. Allen.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 326 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  09:59:15
Sb: #270-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741 (X)

Hi Allen --
I really appreciate the offer but let's see how things go. I would rather have
the pins be a self-supporting thing over the long term if at all possible....
But I sure could use those "connections!" Maybe you can send me some EMAIL with
what the costs might be?
-- Neil

There is 1 Reply.

#: 359 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  19:06:38
Sb: #326-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil: Will be happy to when we know about what we want. I have found most men
don't want a large lapel pin. One-half inch is best, but some will settle for
3/4". This would probably rule out the 3 1/2" disk as a background.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 367 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  20:23:09
Sb: #359-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741 (X)

Hi Allen --
Well, I was thinking of a pin about 3/4" but in the outline of the 3.5" disk. I
think that would be recognizable to anyone interested in computers. Heck, on
the Macintosh or in Windows an icon for a 3.5" disk is even smaller then 3/4"!
I want to talk a bit more to CIS about this on Thursday (tomorrow being a
Jewish Holiday) and see how we could begin to plan....
-- Neil

There is 1 Reply.

#: 399 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    07-Oct-92  18:19:16
Sb: #367-Candidate Presentations
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401

Neil: Whatever you say. I'll try to help. Allen

#: 271 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    05-Oct-92  19:33:06
Sb: #222-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

For obvious reasons I dislike to say this, but wouldn't it be far better to
give a new Entered Apprentice (or MM) a book about Freemasonry? Do you think
for a moment that your new candidate doesn't own a Bible? Or several of them?
Best. Allen E. Roberts

There are 3 Replies.

#: 306 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  00:29:58
Sb: #271-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Duke Lane 76004,2356
To: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741 (X)

--> For obvious reasons I dislike to say this, but wouldn't it be far better to
give a new Entered Apprentice (or MM) a book about Freemasonry? Do you think
for a moment that your new candidate doesn't own a Bible? Or several of them?

I'm not so certain that this is a fair presumption to make (and I likewise
hesitate to say this), especially given a (hopefully) growing number of younger
folks who havn't settled down yet to worry about ensuring they have a Bible in
the house. Yes, I *do* think for a minute that a new candidate might not have a
Bible....

When I entered as EA, I received three books on Freemasonry: two that were
designed for general family reading and one a little more skewed toward the EA
(tho' I don't have it handy to recall the title, but a little 4x5 dark
blue-bound book). At FC, nada, and am working on MM, don't know what will come
then.

But yes, I agree that a Bible would be a handy addition to any Mason's assets,
whether they never had one of their own or the one they'd had is worn. Don't I
wish that my Dad handed one down to ME; maybe my future generations will be
luckier? I'll let you know!<G>

--Duke
  Grapevine, TX

(PMJI and all that)




There is 1 Reply.

#: 345 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  12:22:09
Sb: #306-Candidate Presentations
Fm: Ed Klutz 71061,1025
To: Duke Lane 76004,2356

The idea on a COMPREHENSIVE book on Freemasonry is a good one. I received a
booklet but need for additional information has led me to read the Bible more
than ever. (Hence the support for the presentation Bible) I have also aquired
an electronic Bible for my home PC and assembled a modest masonic library which
is growing weekly.

BTW, Thanks to all responsible for this forum. It is truely an additional
source of "Light".
                              Fraternally, Ed Klutz
                                                                Federal Point
Lodge #753
                                           Carolina Beach, NC

#: 312 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  02:57:57
Sb: #271-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741 (X)

<< Do you think for a moment that your new candidate doesn't own a Bible? >>

QUESTION: Can a person have too many Bibles or Books of their faith?

Bro. Allen,

Let us sincerely hope that those who join our fraternity do have a Bible or
some other Work commensurate with their religion. As for the Heritage Masonic
Bible, I am very proud of mine and have it on display on a coffee table in my
living room. Can't begin to tell you how many Bibles are in my house. My great
Grandfather was a minister and & inherited a lot besides the ones I already had
but ... I am very proud of the big Bible with the S&Q on the cover.
   My Lodge normally presents this big Bible to the new MM along with your 'The
Craft and Its Symbols' (which I always recommend quite highly). I just thought,
since we have some difficulty in getting EAs to progress, that such a Bible
presented by the Lodge in the beginning, might serve to remind him of his
obligation to continue his journey in our mysteries. I also agre that a book
about Freemasonry would also be important. All of this IMHO. <G>

Do you feel that your book should be presented to the EA or the new MM?

Fraternally & respectively ----> Bill




There are 2 Replies.

#: 341 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  11:16:23
Sb: #312-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bill --
How many copies of The Koran do you have in your home, though? What do you do
in the case of a non-Christian Brother?
-- Neil

There is 1 Reply.

#: 387 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    07-Oct-92  04:28:12
Sb: #341-Candidate Presentations
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

<< How many copies of The Koran do you have in your home, though? What do you
do in the case of a non-Christian Brother? >>

Bro. Neil,

I tried to choose my words well realizing that their certainly are other Works
that Masons use other than the Bible. The Koran being one. BTW-I do not own one
of those. Actually I have often felt uncomfortable with our Grand Lodge ruling
that every candidate must be obligated on the King James Bible. I believe that
rule may have been dropped recently however.

----> Bill

#: 358 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  19:04:01
Sb: #312-Candidate Presentations
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bill: Ralph Herbold of SCRL has determined (and I agree) that it should be
presented to the EA. Most men are asked by the wife (or someone) what happened.
He has been cautioned not to answer. If he has a copy of *The Craft* he can
hand it to the questioner and say "read all about it!" Incidently, my wife,
Dottie, agrees!! Best,Allen

#: 340 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  11:15:12
Sb: #271-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741 (X)

Allen --
Speaking as a Jewish Brother although I much appreciated the gift, it did (and
does) feel funny to me to have a New Testament Bible on my bookshelf next to my
family Bible (Old Testament) and the 75 year-old heirloom Five Books Of Moses
left to me by my grandfather. Yet one of the nicest things about the Bible
presented to me is that it contains a complete Masonic cross-reference to both
Old and New Testament text pointing out uses of such things as the word "Light"
and the various Masonic Tools.

It seems to me that one of the great lights of Masonic thought has to be the
Word of God. Now to some people this is the Bible of the New Testament. To
others it is the Bible of the old. To others it may be the Bible called the
Koran.

I agree with you that a better presentation would be a book having to do with
Masonry per se. But I think that a cross-reference to Masonic thought in the
Bible (Old and New) is handy to have too.

Obviously Masons must love the Word of God. Yet, we need to keep in mind that
God has spoken (and speaks) in different ways to different Brothers. This, I
believe, is one of the main challenges facing Masonry today. Unfortunately, I
have no absolute solutions!
-- Neil

There are 3 Replies.

#: 360 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  19:08:51
Sb: #340-Candidate Presentations
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil: Unfortunately much of the "Masonic explanation" is erroneous. One must
try to sought out the wheat from the chaff. Allen

#: 375 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  23:11:33
Sb: #340-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Paul M. Bessel 71041,365
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil:

You reminded me of something that caused me some hesitation when I received my
MM degree and was presented with a Bible and told that it was the very same
Bible that had been used in each of my degrees.  I quietly told my "mentor"
that I, like you, appreciated having a Bible that included both the old and new
testaments, plus Masonic references and pictures, since until then I only had a
Jewish Bible.  But I pointed out that perhaps it would have been more
appropriate if I had taken my oaths on the Bible of my faith. Considering the
state I was in at the time of my obligations I did not know what Bible I was
taking oaths on at the time.  My mentor said that he agreed that the lodge
investigation committee, or someone else, should always find out what Bible
each candidate has faith in, and use that Bible for the obligations.  I don't
think this is too great a problem, since each of us should respect the books
that our brethren respect, as well as the Bible of our own religion.

Paul



There are 2 Replies.

#: 378 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    07-Oct-92  00:13:27
Sb: #375-Candidate Presentations
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Paul M. Bessel 71041,365 (X)

Paul --
I agree with your feelings. On the other hand, having also used the New
Testament in my Lodge degrees, it was my feeling that the New Testament as a
physical book contained the Old Testament. Still, I wonder what would be done
with a Moslem Brother in similar circumstance. It is a question to which more
Lodges should give some thought....
-- Neil

#: 392 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    07-Oct-92  13:20:51
Sb: #375-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123
To: Paul M. Bessel 71041,365 (X)

Paul: A good point.

Masonic trivia: In California, it is technically illegal to put any other book
on the altar but a King James Bible (Old and New Testaments)! A proposal to
allow other types of VSL was soundly DEFEATED at last year's Grand Lodge.

Of course, this does not prevent certain lodges from using other books when the
Inspector isn't looking. ;)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 433 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    08-Oct-92  00:13:52
Sb: #392-Candidate Presentations
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123

Now, now brother Brian. We would not want to give a wrong impression about our
California Lodges to Paul and others. You did say our current Grand Master is a
member of your Lodge. Hmmmmm. Don't worry, I do not believe our Grand Lecturer
Useless (oops!) Ulysses Patropulos is a member of this Forum ... yet. <BG>

----> Bill

PS: Remember next week. As an officer you do have a 'voice' a full vote at the
Annual Communication and probably not a small amount of persuasive capability.
Use these prevliges and talents well at this and future meetings of the Grand
Lodge. Some small gains have been made in correcting irregularities inherent in
our Grand Lodge. More adjustments are needed. I do all I can to persuade those
who have a vote in my Lodge. May you do the same with yours. Perhaps in the not
too distant future we will finally correct this problem as to which VofSL a
candidate may use.

#: 412 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    07-Oct-92  20:53:53
Sb: #340-Candidate Presentations
Fm: Mark R. Sandstrom 72406,303
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401

Bro. Neil,

FYI, I do have a copy of the Koran, and many other sacred writings for other
faith traditions in my library (though this has a lot to do with my profession
and educational pursuits.)

As a side issue, in scholastic circles is becoming the norm to refer to "The
Hebrew Testament" and "The Christian Testament" instead of "Old" and "New"
Testaments.  In this way one is not held superior to the other.  Also, BCE
(Before the Common Era) and CE (Common Era) are replacing BC and AD, in
referencing dates.

Bro. Mark
  

#: 376 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  23:33:50
Sb: #222-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Tom Hunter 71541,1764
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bro. Bill,

A bible presentation, while not required, is strongly suggested by our GL. 
They leave it up to each lodge that does so to determine when and how it is to
be done.  The brother who does our presentation has worked up a very beautiful
presentation speech.  Presentation of individual gifts such as rings, etc. are
discouraged during the ritual.  GL feels they would be better presented
afterwards at the collation.

Tom
  

There is 1 Reply.

#: 434 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    08-Oct-92  00:13:58
Sb: #376-Candidate Presentations
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Tom Hunter 71541,1764

Bro. Tom,

There are probably various kinds of formal Bible presentations although I have
never seen or heard of one in my area. Do you have the capability and would it
be possible for you to obtain permission to upload to our library the Bible
presentation you mentioned. I assume it would be suitable for the public.
Sounds like something I might want to start in my Lodge.

Fraternally ----> Bill /DL (PM Mt. Diablo #448-Concord, Calif) 

#: 288 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    05-Oct-92  23:35:26
Sb: #248-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: Dick Leurig 72245,1503
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bill

I have not yet seen the msg on the Grand Lodge Mexicana.  Will try to get hold
of the message and see what I can find out.  I did see your "on line" message
asking me to look.

I think giving the bible after the EA is a very good idea.  Especially the
version we give that has a lot of references to Masonry and explanations.

The more I am around the rituals, the more I feel there should be something
more than the memory work for EA and FC.  It seems everything comes after the
MM.  Being a part of an organization from the beginning always seems to make
sense to me.

But, I am not an officer or have much input (G).....Just keep bringing up ideas
and offering to help,

Dick

There is 1 Reply.

#: 321 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  03:55:07
Sb: #288-#Candidate Presentations
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Dick Leurig 72245,1503

Bro. Dick -- Keep those ideas and comments coming. Only in this sharing of
ideas can we hope to learn and improve ourselves in this aspect of our Masonic
endeavors.
----> Bill

PS: Some of the best ideas come from those just joing the Craft. Don't feel
like you are too new to have something to offer. <G>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 339 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  11:11:43
Sb: #321-Candidate Presentations
Fm: Joe Leo 76020,1727
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

     I would like to add my two cents worth, with your indulgence of course. In
the months preceding my First Degree, I read anything that I could get my hands
on regarding Masonry, which was, surprisingly, a lot. I still have a stack of
books in my library that came well recommended (including many recommended
here) and the temptation to open them is great BUT--
        After taking my EA Degree, I promised myself that I would put these on
hold until I had taken my MM. To start off, the work appears daunting and I
don't want to jeopardize my proficiencies. Secondly, I feel that I may get more
from them after I get a better education in Masonry.
        In fact, my only justification for taking the time to stop here as
often as I do is the charge I received to converse with knowledgeable brothers.
I found this to be excellent advice both before and after my 1st Degree, have
spoken with many Brothers now, and intend to continue both at home and here. So
I guess the summary of my 'more like half a dollar's worth' is: Consider your
time to be as valuable as any presentation you might make. Sometimes the best
education comes from the heart. Thanks for your patience. Joe.

#: 261 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    05-Oct-92  09:34:25
Sb: #251-#This New Section
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

LOTS of people who do! Take a look at the latest Philalethes Magazine which has
an excellent article on the spiritual basis of the King Solomon Temply mythos
relating it to the Kaballah....
-- Neil

There is 1 Reply.

#: 316 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    06-Oct-92  02:58:18
Sb: #261-#This New Section
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Bro. Neil -- I was just teasing you a bit. <G> I realize there are probably a
large number of members as well as non-members participating here who enjoy the
study of Metaphysics. Just got home from a Dist. School of Instruction, 2nd*,
my Lodge performing the work. During refreshment discussed this subject at
length with the Master of one of the Lodges. He's really into Crowley, Manley
Hall and the others you've discussed. Trying to convience him to get involved
with this Forum. It was the lure of Metaphysics that is helping to convince
him. <G>

BTW--Talked with his Officers Coach the other evening who stated that many of
the members of his Lodge are getting turned off with the Master trying to force
feed them Crowley and Manley Hall concepts. Can you agree that his subject has
a limited following and is probably not palatable to the average Lodge member?
Just my humble opinion. <G>

Fraternally ---> Bill /DL (PM Mt. Diablo #448-Concord,Calif)

PS: I will read the article in the Philalethes you mentioned.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 335 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    06-Oct-92  10:41:22
Sb: #316-#This New Section
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bill --
Well, yes, I would agree that this subject has a limited following amongst
modern Masons. Whether it is "palatable" or not though, I believe that an
understanding of the works of Manly Hall, Al Pike and others can truly
contribute to Masonic understanding of Light. I feel that a lot of today's
problems in the Fraternity as to how, in some areas, it is becoming too
oriented to one Religion or the other instead of being true to the concept of
the Level is because some Masonic leaders do not understand the very basics of
Masonic thought and Masonic metaphysics. While for our sideliners and even
officers of Lodges such things as discussing Hall, Pike, Leadbetter and others
might be, say, supplemental to their mainline thinking -- I think it is
imperative that those who "move" the Fraternity along -- whether as sideliners,
officers, or GL'ers -- understand what people like Hall were thinking about.
Sure it means cutting through a veil of symbols. But it is the very veil which
makes their work timeless.

And, heck, how many Masons even read "stuff" that I think all of us would agree
makes complete sense -- things like Bro. Roberts' The Craft And Its Symbols, or
Haywood's Newly-Made Mason? The problem is that thinking itself is not
palatable to many people including some of the Brethren! This is, in my mind,
an illustration of the state of Western Civilization in the midst of what
future generations will, I am sure, call "The TV Age."

I see this Forum as being a big plate of thoughts, a nice balanced meal for the
Masonic mind. Let's offer sweets and starches, fruits and meats, dairy and
even, yep, let's eat our veggies too -- even broccoli once in a while. You
never know, you might just like the taste!
-- Neil

There is 1 Reply.

#: 386 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    07-Oct-92  04:28:05
Sb: #335-#This New Section
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Bro. Neil --

I yeild to the voices of wisdom and enlightenment. Your msg was beautifully
stated. May I quote you? I know I have much to learn in this area .. but .. for
some reason this subject is making me very hungry. :)  ----> Bill

There is 1 Reply.

#: 389 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    07-Oct-92  11:48:05
Sb: #386-This New Section
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bill --
Quote me? Sure!! <grin>
-- Neil

#: 263 S1/Collation & Chats
    05-Oct-92  09:40:14
Sb: New Uploads -- 10/5
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: all

.In LIBrary 1 and thanks to the uploader!

[71202,22]              *New Upload (23:54:18 EDT)*
SIMCOE.ZIP/Bin  Bytes:  18539, Count:    0, 04-Oct-92            Last:**Never**

  Title   : SOLDIER STATESMAN & FREEMASON
  Keywords: EARLY CANADIAN FREEMASON

  JOHN GRAVES SIMCOE, FIRST G-G OF UPPER CANADA


REMEMBER: A very contribution to the success of this NEW FORUM is to
upload here and share with our membership any Masonically-oriented files
or programs you might have. They will be MUCH appreciated. Thanks!

Neil

#: 266 S12/Books/Magazines
    05-Oct-92  14:11:29
Sb: #241-NEWSLETTER
Fm: Russell D. Fort / IL 70020,664
To: harry howell 71053,1751 (X)

Hi Harry -

        Ask Jim to say hi to Alan Stacell.

-Russ-

#: 287 S12/Books/Magazines
    05-Oct-92  23:30:38
Sb: #242-NEWSLETTER
Fm: Dick Leurig 72245,1503
To: harry howell 71053,1751 (X)

Harry Sounds great with all the history.  Maybe I can get down and visit some
time on my travels. Texas history is filled with Masonic stories; and almost
all of the early leaders were Masons. Dick

#: 268 S4/York Rite
    05-Oct-92  17:14:06
Sb: #Welcome\York Rite Sect'n
Fm: Dr. PRESS 72730,1170
To: [F] all

From: Dr. Stephen J. PRESS, PM
      Wm F. BURK #230  F& AM, Bogota, NJ
To:   All
Re:   Scott SHERMAN's comment re: whether it is even Masonic to restrict to
Christians the commandery.

I think it is not particularly Masonic to do so as we are supposed to be
non-sectarian.... but to be honest, even if you opened the Commandery to
non-christians, very few would join because of the fundamental nature of the
commandery, and its modern inheritance of the Knights etc...

I personally think the best course is the one opened in New York by the
founding of the "Order of Judas Maccabeus" on the same level in the York Rite
bodies. This should, in my opinion be accompanied by an opening of the
commandery to all comers... not a change in its ritual or symbolism, just a
greater openess regarding what it represents,  and it will likely remain
99.999% Christian.




There is 1 Reply.

#: 338 S4/York Rite
    06-Oct-92  10:59:54
Sb: #268-#Welcome\York Rite Sect'n
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Dr. PRESS 72730,1170

Bro. Stephen --
I forwarded your note to ALL as it appears that is who you wish to address.
Note that when you reply to a message the message is sent to the person you are
replying to BUT as this is a bulletin board, all are free to answer. But, your
message seemed to be a good spot to also begin a conversation.

My thoughts are based on only a short time as a Master Mason. I have petitioned
Scottish Rite but have not yet been accepted. I also have a petition here to
York Rite that I picked up at Lodge on Friday, I will probably send that in too
and go both sides. But....

It seems to me that if we do not discuss Politics or Religion in Lodge, that we
have the concept of meeting on a Level, that if Masonry is pan-Religion, not
oriented toward one Religion or the other -- then why should we have any Body
that is 99.999% Christian or Jewish or Muslim? I already know that the
Commanderies do wonderful work and so forth and I very much respect that.

But if we accept one-Religion-symbols or rituals in one Body then what happens
to the concept of the Level? The proposal of '"Order of Judas Maccabeus" on the
same level" is simply a restating of what I think to be the rather empty
philosophy of Separate But Equal. It simply does not work that way in any human
Society throughout History. Just IMHO and offered not in an adversarial manner
but for conversational reasons. Thanks,
-- Neil

There is 1 Reply.

#: 425 S4/York Rite
    07-Oct-92  23:46:33
Sb: #338-Welcome\York Rite Sect'n
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401

Neil,
FYI I started up this topic in its own thread and put my reply to Bro. Press
there.
Scott 

#: 290 S4/York Rite
    06-Oct-92  00:23:11
Sb: Welcome\York Rite Sect'n
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Dick Leurig 72245,1503

Bro. Dick,
You make some very good points.  In the business of Freemasonry we are supposed
to be about sharing light (e.g., knowledge) with out Brethren. Information, 
not pressure, is what should be presented to new MM's.  Whenever I have taught
classes of candidates at Lodges of Instruction in Mass I always make it a point
to tell them that they stand on the threshold of some truly marvelous
opportunities.  But that they should always remember to give their primary
loyalty to their Blue Lodge to the extent of, at least, attending Lodge on the
regular meeting night every month.

I think to many of those men who are coerced into joining (or just talked into
it) other bodies never do more thereafter than to, maybe, pay their dues.

I'm glad you enjoyed the 3rd Veil Master.  I liked doing the Veils myself.

Ex. Scott 

#: 279 S7/TCL/Grotto
    05-Oct-92  20:48:57
Sb: #252-#Welcome\Tall Cedars
Fm: Rob Nelson 70534,2023
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Hi William,

That a Masonic effort donated that much money doesn't suprise me. I just had
the third interviewer over tonight. I was right to petition the Masons.  I've
met 3 outstanding people because of my petition. Neil Shapiro is on target >>in
your heart you realize you are a Mason<<.

-Rob Nelson (hopefully of Kestone Lodge 1143, Dallas Texas)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 317 S7/TCL/Grotto
    06-Oct-92  02:58:24
Sb: #279-#Welcome\Tall Cedars
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Rob Nelson 70534,2023 (X)

Dear Almost-A-Brother Rob,

Thanks for the reply. Your right. That one of our Masonic orgnizations could
raise 1/2 a million $ for such a worth while cause really doesn't suprise me
either. Its just one example of the many things our Masonic Family does each
year. It is not necessary but does not hurt to get some public recognition for
our good deeds.

Thanks for letting me know you are from Texas. We have a number of members from
Texas who have been active in this Forum.

Fraternally ---> Bill /DL (PM Mt. Diablo #448-Concord, Calif)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 370 S7/TCL/Grotto
    06-Oct-92  21:16:04
Sb: #317-Welcome\Tall Cedars
Fm: Rob Nelson 70534,2023
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

William,

I think the Masons do get some sort of recognition. You know how the fire dept
and other fundraising volunteers will hang around intersections? Well when the
hands come out of windows, the Shriners get bills, the others get change.

-Rob

#: 280 S1/Collation & Chats
    05-Oct-92  20:56:54
Sb: #232-Clandestine Bodies
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123 (X)

Bro. Brian,

Had to go get my Freemason. I see that the item you are refering to is a carry
over resolution 91-40. I doubt that this has anything to do with the Lodge I
mentioned. I was not able to attend on Tuesday last year so missed the
resolutions. Had to take a 2 day DOS Word Perfect class. (Yuck!) I also do not
have the detailed packet of resolutions that I normally receive. This might
pertain to some Lodges in Southern California. Thought perhaps Leurig or
Spangler may have heard someting about this group.

I will check my private mail as you suggested.

BTW-Never did see a response to my question on *P* ERL#1 about whether or not
those who are also active on this net would be welcome to the gathering at
Grand Lodge Monday Oct 12 at 11:45 'G' floor near the blackboard. I plan on
being there. Hope you'll be able to make it also.

Fraternally ----> Bill PM /DL (Mt. Diablo #448-Concord, Calif) 

#: 289 S1/Collation & Chats
    05-Oct-92  23:55:36
Sb: #219-#Clandestine Bodies
Fm: Will Linden 72737,2150
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

 According to the Grand Archivist General OTO, the "secrets" of the VII degree
are the same as those of 32o SR, formerly allowing 32s to skip the lower
degrees on admission to OTO; and it was the SR which broke off the
"co-recognition" arrangement.
  I anticipate that SR sources may give a different account.




There is 1 Reply.

#: 355 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  17:10:28
Sb: #289-#Clandestine Bodies
Fm: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123
To: Will Linden 72737,2150 (X)

Will: Your post suggests that the Scottish Rite has the authority to extend or
deny Masonic recognition. Let me assure you that this is not the case.

The American Scottish Rite does not have and has never possessed the power to
determine whether any organization is a regular, "recognized" Masonic body.
That responsibility rests solely in the hands of the various Grand Lodges, to
which all Scottish Rite Masons must belong and whose authority they are
obligated to acknowledge.

As far as I can tell, OTO has never been recognized as a Masonic body by any
Grand Jurisdiction in the United States. In fact, the Grand Lodge of Conneticut
specifically condemned the OTO as "irregular, fraudulent and clandestine" in
testimony given during a 1980 court case in that state. The United Grand Lodge
of England has also identified OTO as clandestine.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 356 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  17:40:52
Sb: #355-#Clandestine Bodies
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123 (X)

Brian --
Back on the NEW AGE section I recall a note from someone to the effect that
California Grand Lodge recognizes... and now my memory is going... it was
either OTO or a Rosicrucian GL. One or t'other. Maybe a CA Brother would
know....
-- Neil

There are 2 Replies.

#: 382 S1/Collation & Chats
    07-Oct-92  04:27:39
Sb: #356-Clandestine Bodies
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Bro. Neil -- JIH --

Brian, as he has closer ties to GL than I, could probably field this question
better but from what I have noticed in the past the GL of California guards
with a passion against ANY other Grand Lodge even attempting to form in
California. The only exception to this would be PH although we still do not
maintain formal recognition with them ..... yet. ----> Bill

#: 390 S1/Collation & Chats
    07-Oct-92  13:15:02
Sb: #356-#Clandestine Bodies
Fm: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401

Neil: California does not recognize OTO, or even acknowledge its existence.

I've never heard of any "Rosicrucian" body being recognized here. The most
likely candidate would be the East Coast-based Masonic Rosicrucians, but as far
as I know we don't acknowledge them either.

I will ask our Grand Secretary at the Annual Communication this weekend about
this.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 407 S1/Collation & Chats
    07-Oct-92  20:16:05
Sb: #390-Clandestine Bodies
Fm: John Coan 72377,25
To: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123

PMBIH, What are "masonic" rosicrucians??

 Fraternally, John Coan , JS of Hiram Lodge #40 of the GL of AF & AM of NC



#: 301 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  00:23:42
Sb: #219-Clandestine Bodies
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bro. Bill,
You have a begal break?!  You eat those cute little doggies?  Shame on you! 
...Oh... You meant Bagel.  Never mind. [g]

Otherwise, I can't help you about this Lodge.  I agree that we have to
revisedly use the word Clandestine around here.  It would have to something
pretty clear to be considered such by us.  (Though our respective
jurisdictions, and we as individuals by extenstion, may have to consider
certain groups as such.)
Wor. Scott 

#: 282 S9/Youth Groups
    05-Oct-92  21:09:30
Sb: #224-#Remote Rainbow?
Fm: Mark Spangler 72157,105
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

My daughter was dedicated in Germany at less then a year old to the ideals of
Rainbow at the Germany Grand Assembly with Mrs. Pauline Stonehocker, Supreme
Inspector to Geramny.  When she was 12 she joined Rainbow and was Worthy
Advisor at 15.  My son joined DeMolay at 13 and had his Representative DeMolay
Award before he had a year in DeMolay.  He is the JPMC of his chapter and the
Deputy District State Master Councilor of the Lee Lockwood District here in
Texas.  To night, he is now 16, he is in Austin on his official visit to
Stephen F. Austin Chapter.  My youngest will turn 13 the 24th of this month and
will be initiated next month at the joint district initiation class in Austin. 
The youngest has learned the Recognition Button talk as he wanted to do
something when he heard his brother compete in the Flower Talk.  The best thing
you can do is go to the different public activities so that they will meet
onthers of their age and you will meet a lot of great people lyour age.  Once
they see that the organizations are fun and they know a couple of people they
might thaw.

Spang

There is 1 Reply.

#: 329 S9/Youth Groups
    06-Oct-92  10:05:49
Sb: #282-Remote Rainbow?
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Mark Spangler 72157,105

Mark --
It's a shame that Triangle and Rainbow seem so, well, non-functioning in my
immediate area. I am still investigating though....
-- Neil

#: 293 S9/Youth Groups
    06-Oct-92  00:23:19
Sb: #224-#Remote Rainbow?
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil,
Haven't your girls been in any extracurricular classes, groups, or activities
by the ages of 8 and 13?  What is it about Rainbow or Jobs that does not thrill
your daughters?
Scott 

There is 1 Reply.

#: 331 S9/Youth Groups
    06-Oct-92  10:15:23
Sb: #293-#Remote Rainbow?
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645 (X)

Hi Scott --
Well, I think a normal parent-child relationship is that Daddy suggests that
the child do something and the suggestion itself is one strike in the child's
mind against what is being suggested.... When they joined other organizations
it was different in that they knew kids in those organizations already and it
was their own peer group which suggested it to them. But it's not like they
_hate_ the idea or anything. They just feel unsure about it!
--Neil

There is 1 Reply.

#: 428 S9/Youth Groups
    07-Oct-92  23:46:45
Sb: #331-Remote Rainbow?
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401

Neil,
OIC.  Nothing wrong with that.  I have found out about Jobies in NY and will be
sending you a private message on it.
Scott 

#: 291 S9/Youth Groups
    06-Oct-92  00:23:14
Sb: Remote Rainbow?
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil,
I put a call into the gentleman, (The Supreme Inner Guard), who is in
California for a bit (that's where his counterpart lady to be the top adults in
the International Order of Jobs Daughters resides).  His daughter said she
would have him call and I will be sure to follow up.
Scott 

#: 292 S9/Youth Groups
    06-Oct-92  00:23:16
Sb: #199-#Remote Rainbow?
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bill,
I have often had amazement expressed to me that I would serve as I have for
these youth organizations without having children in them.  I find the
experiences well worth it.  I also share your concern and upset for the lack of
interest many parents show today.  I don't understand what happened to my
generation.
Scott 

There is 1 Reply.

#: 324 S9/Youth Groups
    06-Oct-92  03:55:21
Sb: #292-#Remote Rainbow?
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645 (X)

Wor. Scott,

As I recall you and I are about the same age. At 43 I guess I'm a little older
but the same generation. Guess we simply enjoyed our DeMolay experience and
wanted to give something back something for the enjoyable benefits we received.
As for understanding what happened to our generation I'm sure that could fill
volumes. For many of our generation who survived the VN War and the cultural
explosion of the 60s, organized Fraternities simply were not as attractive as
they were for those who came out of the 40s and WWII. ----> Bill  

There is 1 Reply.

#: 427 S9/Youth Groups
    07-Oct-92  23:46:43
Sb: #324-#Remote Rainbow?
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bill,
Well, you are right that we are not too far apart in age as I am less than 4
months shy of 35.  But I am afraid I left you with a misimpression.  I never
had the opportunity to become a DeMolay until I was 19 and already a member of
a college fraternity.  It held no appeal for me at that point.  If I knew I
would be a Chapter Advisor 5 yrs. later I might have changed my mind.  So my
motivation was different than you mentioned.
OTOH, I do understand about our generation, the Viet Nam war and not wanting to
join anything belonging to the 'establishment'.  And now we are not only seeing
the effects of that on our Masonic Fraternity, but on the kids groups as well. 
It is unfortunate that parents don't seem to care enough these days.  A story I
like to tell is about a good friend of mine who was not interested in DeMolay
at all because his father was a 'too busy' Mason.  His dad forced him to join
DeMolay and said he had to stay in for one term; afterwhich he could quit if he
wanted to.  The young man went on to become State Master Councilor, has
presided over several Masonic groups, married the GWA of his term, etc. He
attributes all of this to his dad forcing him to do something he wouldn't have
done on his own.
Scott 

There is 1 Reply.

#: 438 S9/Youth Groups
    08-Oct-92  02:44:46
Sb: #427-Remote Rainbow?
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645

Wor. Scott,

Regarding your membership with DeMolay guess I was getting you confused with Ed
King. <G> ---- I'm reminded of my Jurisdictional JC when I was JMC. He joined
DeMolay when he was 18. Was active with his Chapter for one year before wanting
more out of the organization than the Chapter was able to provide in the few
years he had left as an active member. He was a great addition to the
Jurisdictional officer corp. He told me that the same night he was to be
initiated into DeMolay he also had an opportunity to join the Hells Angles
Motorcycle Club. It was a hard decision as he a few friends in the motorcycle
club. Fortunately for him and us he chose DeMolay.
   Like your story about the father and his son. Don't imagine it always works
out positive like this though.

----> Bill

BTW--You're 34 now and have served 2 different terms as Master? Boy! How old
were you when you first served in the East? I was 29. Did you have an
occasional odd feeling about presiding over a Lodge of men who probably, if its
the same there as here, had an average age of 55+? I had no real problem with
this but it did sometimes feel a little strange.

SAVING A MSG SLOT: Don't need bro. Wilson's phone or address. Just hope he's
ok. 

#: 283 S1/Collation & Chats
    05-Oct-92  21:16:21
Sb: #Anti-Mason
Fm: Russell D. Fort / IL 70020,664
To: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741 (X)

Hi Allen -

        My Grand Secretary, Robert Kalb, has just shared a letter with me that
he recieved from Roy B. Delaney, M.W. Grand Master from Louisiana. The letter
is to encourage Masons to "stand up and be counted", and is in response to the
recent attack made during the Southern Baptist Convetion.

        In the letter M.W. Bro. Delaney asks for our "members to write a note
to the Southern Baptist Convention."  He goes on to state that a simple
statement such as :

        "I am a Southern Baptist (Christian, Jew, etc.).  I have been a
Freemason for "X" number of years and can find no conflict between Masonry and
my chosen God."

        The letters should be sent to Mr. Gary Leazer, Director of the
Interfaith Witness Department.  Mr. Leazer will be spending the next 90 days
(August, September, October) determining if "Freemasonry is compatible with
Christianity."
        
The letters should be mailed to :               with copies to :
Mr. Gary Leazer, Director                       Rev. Dr. Ron Phillips, Chairman
Interfaith Witness Dept.                                Home Mission Board
1350 Spring Street N.W.                         Central Baptist Church
Atlanta, Georgia  30309                         5208 Hixon Pike
                                                                Hixon,
Tennessee  37343

        M.W. Bro. Delaney is in hopes that we can flood Mr. Leazer with letter
in support of Masonry.  He also notes that letter should be mailed no later
than October 31.

[continued]

There are 3 Replies.

#: 284 S1/Collation & Chats
    05-Oct-92  21:20:29
Sb: #283-#Anti-Mason
Fm: Russell D. Fort / IL 70020,664
To: Russell D. Fort / IL 70020,664 (X)

[continued]

        In addition to the letter from M.W. Bro. Delaney, there was an attached
letter from Mr. Gary Leazer to Mr. Fred W. McPeake, Secretary of the Scottish
Rite Temple in Knoxville, Tennessee.  The letter is written on Home Mission
Board, SBC letterhead.

        Mr. Leazer's letter was thanking Bro. McPeake for is offer to meet and
discuss Freemasonry.  Mr. Leazer states that he "did NOT volunteer for the
assignment and really wish[es] it had not come up."  He does state that he
intends to conduct an objective study.  Mr. Leazer goes on to say that he has
been offered the use of the Atlanta Masonic Temple Library, "with no strings
attached".

        The most disturbing sentence of this letter however was :

"I [Mr. Leazer] am receiving an unbelievable amount of anti-Mason information
and desperately need some responses from Masons."

        It sounds like we need to ALL drop Mr. Leazer a note in the next few
weeks.

-Russell-
George A. Sentel Lodge No. 764
Grand Lodge of Illinois, A.F. & A.M.


There is 1 Reply.

#: 362 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  19:26:17
Sb: #284-#Anti-Mason
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: Russell D. Fort / IL 70020,664 (X)

I think the better part of valor is to research the character and life of that
fellow Holly. And I would like to have the results of this research. There is a
plan to bring suit against that guy for slander and worst. Who knows, he may
have to tell the truth one day soon. Best. Allen

There is 1 Reply.

#: 393 S1/Collation & Chats
    07-Oct-92  13:23:59
Sb: #362-Anti-Mason
Fm: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123
To: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741 (X)

Allen: Good luck on your research into the good Dr. Holly. ;)

#: 361 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  19:23:23
Sb: #283-Anti-Mason
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: Russell D. Fort / IL 70020,664 (X)

Good!! This is being recommended in many places. Won't do any harm - but I fear
it won't do a lot of good. I understand the investigator finds nothing wrong
with Freemasonry (close relatives of his are members of the Craft). The
opponents are demanding his resignation. If he approves of F/My a resolution
will be immediately  submitted to throw him away and rescing anything he might
have to say. Characters such as Holly ain't gonna stand still for honesty. They
ain't gonna be confused by facts. Best. Allen

#: 381 S1/Collation & Chats
    07-Oct-92  04:27:31
Sb: #283-Anti-Mason
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Russell D. Fort / IL 70020,664 (X)

Bro. Russ,

My response to Mr. Leazer with a copy to Mr. Phillips is in the mail. As Bro.
Roberts mentioned, it might not do a whole lot of good, but then it doesn't
hurt to try.

----> Bill Wine /DL (PM Mt. Diablo #448-Concord, Calif.)

#: 285 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    05-Oct-92  23:19:11
Sb: Historical Metaphysics
Fm: Tony 70751,3077
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil, Scott & safetynet:

<<OK, I know this is NOT the mainstream of Masonic thought today...>>

Even if modern, 'mainstream' American (or for that matter, British) Masonry
doesn't like to be associated with magical orders of fraternity; even if it
doesn't 'believe' in it, the historical fact is that the "Institution", as
Albert Mackey called it, is of interest to anyone studying Hermeticism,
Kabbala, Ceremonial Magic, Alchemy, Rosicrucianism etc. Most contemporary
magical societies trace their roots back to various 19th century Masonic
sources. Eliphas Levi (Alfonse Louis Constant), Papus (Gerard Encause'),
Arthur Edward Waite, Aleister Crowley, Josephin Peladan, all the seminal
figures of modern magical theory and practice were ensconced within the
Masonic camp at one point or other during their careers. As early as the
1770s Speculative Freemasonry had come to function as a major repository
for nearly all the esoteric traditions of the west.

<<we should have some Brethren and others who will enjoy the discussions>>

I fall under the "others" category... :-)

[Continues...]
  

#: 286 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    05-Oct-92  23:19:44
Sb: #Historical Metaphysics
Fm: Tony 70751,3077
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

[...continuation]

Scott Sherman says:
<<Well, Neil, About all I guess I can say is let's see what happens and I
will render a more informed opinion later.>>

Good! I hope it stays!

Safetynet says:
<<I just read a pamphlet that says masonry is based on the Cabala, a Jewish
book of  mysticism and ritual.>>

It's more complicated than that! :-)

Joseph Fort Newton says (The Builders, p59) that "Albert Pike was more
indebted to Eliphas Levi than he let us know."

H. Spencer Lewis, the greatest Imperator the Rosicrucian Order has had this
century writes: "...Albert Pike, the honored & respected writer of American
Freemasonry, was a very thorough Rosicrucian student." (Meaning student of
things Rosicrucian.)

Because this is a masonic FORUM and not simply a section in another, If you
"guys" want to cover everything Masonic, it is my "cowan's" humble opinion you
cannot shy away from this section... :-)

Saludos,

Tony 

There is 1 Reply.

#: 330 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    06-Oct-92  10:12:47
Sb: #286-#Historical Metaphysics
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Tony 70751,3077 (X)

Tony --
Hi! I agree that to truly understand such people as Mackey and even Pike one
must also study Manly Hall, Eliphas Levi, A.E. Waite and many of the others you
mentioned. The one exception I might take to your list is Crowley.... Not
because I perceive anything "wrong" with good ol' 666 but because many of his
thoughts as expressed in the Book Of Lies and Equinox were rather -- in my view
-- based on some of his Masonic studies but once translated to his Thelemic
beliefs no longer had much to do with Masonry per se. On the other hand, I
don't see how any of today's modern Masons can afford to simply shrug off
reading Manly Hall's The Lost Keys To Freemasonry and other such tomes. I know
that Hall's work in particular is most illuminating.

When you say Al Pike was a Rosicrucian (or quote Lewis as saying that) do you
happen to know if he belonged to a Rosicrucian order or Lodge? Or did he just
read the various publications of the time?
-- Neil

There is 1 Reply.

#: 357 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    06-Oct-92  18:35:51
Sb: #330-#Historical Metaphysics
Fm: Tony Alicea 70751,3077
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil:

<<I know that Hall's work in particular is most illuminating. >>

I haven't pursued all of Hall's *Masonic* writings <but you know he wrote A LOT
about a LOT! :-) > but because you mentioned it I'll get THE LOST KEYS.

I *do* have other works by him, on the Rosicrucian "side" of things...

Did you know that he was a 33*?

<<When you say Al Pike was a Rosicrucian... do you happen to know if he
belonged to a Rosicrucian order or Lodge? Or did he just read the various
publications of the time?>>

Good question. I was careful to say :-) :

"...Albert Pike, the honored & respected writer of American Freemasonry,
was a very thorough Rosicrucian student." (Meaning student of things
Rosicrucian.) "

There was NO Rosicrucian Order (public) activity in the USA during his
lifetime. The Order was in a cycle of silence so there were no Lodges much less
meetings going on between 1802 and 1910 (give or take a yr or two).
Albert Pike was an avid student of things Rosicrucian, though.

The first Rosicrucians came to America in 1694 to what is now Germantown,
PA. That's the colony that Franklin and Jefferson dealt with, but I
digress... 

     This section seems to have a lot of potential and let me congratulate you
again (and the other Masons too!) for having accomplished so much (your own
Forum) in so little time!  ...Now, if the Government could do as much! :-)

Tony A.

  

There are 2 Replies.

#: 366 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    06-Oct-92  20:21:10
Sb: #357-#Historical Metaphysics
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: Tony Alicea 70751,3077 (X)

Tony --
I believe we have THE LOST KEYS in the LIBs here (it having become public
domain long, long ago). But it would be pretty awful, actually, to read it on
computer printout. You'd be much better off picking it up in book form. His
basic concept on relating symbols to the Egyptian Mystery Schools is very
interesting.
-- Neil

There is 1 Reply.

#: 371 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    06-Oct-92  21:27:54
Sb: #366-Historical Metaphysics
Fm: Tony Alicea 70751,3077
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil:

I will order (LOST KEYS) directly from PRS!...

Later...

Tony

#: 391 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    07-Oct-92  13:17:15
Sb: #357-Historical Metaphysics
Fm: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123
To: Tony Alicea 70751,3077 (X)

Something to bear in mind when reading Hall's LOST KEYS: It was written when he
was 22, nearly five decades BEFORE he became a Mason!

I probably would have met Hall had I joined the fraternity three years sooner.
Sigh.

#: 294 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  00:23:21
Sb: Clergy & Craft (Cont)
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Brett Dickerson 75570,742

Bro. Brett,
Seeing as how you are joining us here I decided to respond to your lst message
to me in the New Age forum here as well.

I just wanted to acknowledge the message and thank you for your kind words.  We
all can have something to learn from our involvement in this forum.

Wor. Scott 

#: 297 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  00:23:31
Sb: Call To Work!
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: harry howell 71053,1751 (X)

Bro. Harry,
Hello and Welcome to the Forum!  How di you find out about us?  I am glad you
did and hope you tell all the Brethren down there in Texas.  I see you are
about to have a very busy year as Master of your Lodge.  Please let me
congratulate you in advance and assure you that you can find a lot of opinions
here in this Forum.

Please feel free to drop in and participate any time.  Don't hesitate to write
if I can do anything to make your visits more enjoyable.
Fraternally,
Wor. Scott Sherman, Sysop
PM of Waltham Triad Lodge, Waltham, MA -- Living in MD 

#: 299 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  00:23:35
Sb: #221-#Bring your own apron
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bro. Bill,
Your comment about Bro. Neil getting nervous over the topic reminded me of my
surprise at finding out how my my barious "Past" aprons cost.  And how glad I
was not to be paying that bull out of pocket.  (My PM apron cost something in
the range of $500 in 1987.)
Wor. Scott 

There is 1 Reply.

#: 319 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  03:54:57
Sb: #299-Bring your own apron
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645 (X)

Wor. Scott,

Occasionally we have a PM visit us from the East. I have seen the aprons they
usually bring with them. Some are more ellegant than our Grand Master's Apron.
<G> We are a little more modest here with our purchase of PM aprons. Mine in
1979 cost about $100. Course they saved $ on me in 1986. <G> But I did have my
gavel re-engraved adding the 2nd year. One thing we do is give the outgoing
Master a monitary gift. Usually about $200. He can us it any way he wishes. It
is often out toward a PM ring. WHich reminds me at our November Stated meeting
I had better remind the SW to put in a motion for this. He will be stepping up
that night to the East.

----> Bill

#: 342 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  12:14:14
Sb: #214-Bring your own apron
Fm: William A. Siebert 70421,3064
To: Allan E. Elliott 100033,1572 (X)

       >>Proved not as a Master Mason, but as a Past Master.

Considering the purpose of requiring proof of Masonic status, why is there a
difference?  As far as ability to speak in Lodge, one MM should be as good as
any other.

#: 300 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  00:23:40
Sb: #187-The Demolay Lodge
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Edward L. King 76050,2023

Wor. Ed,
What I sent you was a Private message.  If you had replied to the message
instead of (what I believe you did) starting another thread with the same name,
it would have been private too; and so on.  Yes it would be safe and only you
or I could delete them.  I believe only the parties involved, or the scroll
rate, get rid of Private messages.
Wor. Scott 

#: 303 S2/History/Symbolism
    06-Oct-92  00:23:48
Sb: Fraternal greetings!
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Jim Hawthorne 76570,366

Wor. Jim,
Greetings and welcome to our forum!  I am happy you found your way to us from
British Columbia in the fine nation of Canada.  Would you mind sharing with me
your Lodge name and number for my records?  thanks.

Being a TPGM of the Lodge of Perfection is quite a distinction.  I am sure you
will bring some interesting stories to our Forum here and in the Scottish Rite
Section.

Please let me know if I can do anything to make your stay here more enjoyable.
Fraternally,
Wor. Scott Sherman, Sysop
PM of Waltham Triad Lodge, Waltham, MA -- Living in Maryland, USA
32nd8 & Life member of the Valley of Boston, AASR 

#: 305 S3/Blue Lodge Mngmnt
    06-Oct-92  00:23:53
Sb: Loud Past Masters
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Wor. Bill,
You make some very good points, as usual.  It just shows that there really are
two sides to most every issue.
Wor. Scott 

#: 310 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  01:27:54
Sb: Call To Work!
Fm: harry howell 71053,1751
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil, Yes, I am using CIM. I think that it might take a while to post the text.
I am new at this CS thing
Harry

#: 311 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  01:42:05
Sb: #MNEMONICS
Fm: harry howell 71053,1751
To: Neil Shapiro 76703,401 (X)

Neil, I would like to publish a paper in Texas Lodge or Research Bulletin on
mnemonics used in American(first then British) Masonry. For example in Texas we
use "San Antonio Hat Company" as a mnemonic in the FC. I am sure that something
else is used in other states. If not, we are going to be real proud down here
in Texas. If you think this is an appropriate use of the Forum, I would like to
query the members for their mnemonics from their states or regions.
Frat'ly
Harry Howell

There are 3 Replies.

#: 333 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  10:30:03
Sb: #311-#MNEMONICS
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: harry howell 71053,1751 (X)

Hi Harry --
Well, my feeling is that sure we could trade mnemonics as long as we did not
actually ever quote any of the ritual itself. I.E., we could say as you did
that something would be a good mnemonic for FC. But we should not ever have a
message such as '" In lower Idaho for the words _____________________ we use
such-and-such to remember." Others are welcome to pipe up here with their
suggestions as to how we should handle this....
-- Neil

There is 1 Reply.

#: 379 S1/Collation & Chats
    07-Oct-92  01:28:45
Sb: #333-#MNEMONICS
Fm: harry howell 71053,1751
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil, Well, that was/is my intent. If we do not know what the mnemonic means
then we shouldn't be here anyway. In Texas we use "SAM SMITH AND HENRY KING DID
BUY SOME COTTON AT VARIOUS COUNTRY GINS" for the long one. I am sure that Sam
and Henry don't buy any cotton in Idaho.
I would appreciate folks from each state letting me know what mnemonics they
use, and I will write a paper to be published in the"Transactions of the Texas
Lodge of Research".
Frat'ly,
Harry


There is 1 Reply.

#: 435 S1/Collation & Chats
    08-Oct-92  00:14:03
Sb: #379-MNEMONICS
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: harry howell 71053,1751

<< If we do not know what the mnemonic means then we shouldn't be here anyway.
>>

Bro. Harry,

PMFJIH-- I take a little exception to your above comment. I take pride in being
a fairly good ritualist in California Blue Lodge Masonry but ... this is the
second mnemonic you've given that I have tried to rack my brain and can not
come up with what it relates to. You said the 'long one' meaning the MM
obligation? That has one group of 9 paragraphs not counting the lead in. You
could be a little more specific. <G>

Fraternally ----> Bill /DL (PM Mt. Diablo #448-Concord, Calif)
                  Officers Coach a.k.a. Director of Ritual   

#: 354 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  17:06:48
Sb: #311-MNEMONICS
Fm: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123
To: harry howell 71053,1751 (X)

Harry: We use "Time For Prune Juice" as a mnemonic for the Virtues in the EA
degree.

We have some other mnemonics used for floor work which are not suitable for a
family network. ;)

#: 384 S1/Collation & Chats
    07-Oct-92  04:27:54
Sb: #311-#MNEMONICS
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: harry howell 71053,1751 (X)

Bro. Harry,

Sounds like an interesting project. I would tend to side with Neil in that
discussions in this area should be tempered with a little prudence. Speaking of
prudence I would have found nothing wrong had bro. Moriarty went a little
further and stated Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence and Justice. This is
exoteric work in California. I have even listened to a Past Grand Master give a
talk to a public gathering on these virtues. I would not, however, want to see
long passages of ritual given here monitorial or not. This is simply a personal
preference .

One problem you may run into is the various differences in the ritual. A
mnemonic, or aid to the memory, may work fine in one Jurisdiction but totally
lose its meaning in another. As a Ritual Director for my Lodge I believe I know
the ritual pretty well and try to create or learn various mnemonics. I have
already, however, missed where the mnemonic you gave applies to the FC in our
California F&AM ritual. In two of our degrees the Master says 'being again
brought from darkness'. To keep the order of the first two words from being
reversed we often use the mnemonic 'Bank of America' or 'B of A'. Would you
understand this in your ritual? If not, you may be able to understand my point.
Nor would I feel comfortable giving any more of the ritual other than the few
words I've given to clearify the Master's words at that point.

It will be interesting to here what others have to say on this subbject.

Fraternally ----> Bill Wine (PM Mt. Diablo #448-Concord,Calif)    

There are 2 Replies.

#: 395 S1/Collation & Chats
    07-Oct-92  13:35:33
Sb: #384-MNEMONICS
Fm: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

Bill: Hey! I didn't say "Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence and Justice." YOU did.
All I said was "the Virtues." :)

#: 437 S1/Collation & Chats
    08-Oct-92  00:26:22
Sb: #384-MNEMONICS
Fm: harry howell 71053,1751
To: William Wine/DL 72435,1512 (X)

William, I have decided to scrap the whole thing soas to avoid those types of
problems. I will pursue my research in a more private manner. Frat'ly
harry

#: 346 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    06-Oct-92  14:52:20
Sb: #Historical Metaphysics
Fm: safetynet 76570,1354
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Neil and Tony,

I think many times as masons, we try so hard to deny charges of being a secret
society based on heretic teachings, mysticism, symbolism and all of the other
"negative" things we hear, we never have an opportunity to truly study masonic
thought and belief. 

When you speak to people in the New Age community, and the occult community,
Masons are highly reguarded for keeping the craft alive without drastic
persecution for so many years.  When you read any of the metaphysical volumes
presented, you will always find refences to Freemasonry.  There is a saying
"When you seek a master, one will come to you."  I think that this is a very
poignant issue when related to masonry.  By study and learning through
exploration, we find the light that is behind the veil.  There are no secrets,
only information that people choose not to explore.  It is the duty of every
mason to find that portion of Freemasonry that is right for him and to do his
best work in that area, and at the same time, realizing that there is more to
the work than meets the casual eye.

Our founding fathers were very involved in the metaphysical realm, George
Washington, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson all regularly consulted
Astrologers and Psychics for answers.  As recently as the 1980's, we see
President Reagan still using metaphysical sciences to further goals. 
Interestingly enough, our founding fathers were masons, and recongnized the
ties between metaphysics and masonry.  One a side note, I would like to know if
Pres. Reagan, Pres Bush, or Rush Limbaugh are masons, just for my own
curiosity.

Interestingly enough, when we speak of symbolism, blood oaths, and a number of
other things deemed "bad" by anti-masonic individuals who profess to be
christians, we fail to mention that christianity is based very fully on
mysticism and symbolism.  One need merely to take communion (the body and blood
of Christ) or listen to someone talk of speaking in tongues to see some of the
symbolism. 
  

There is 1 Reply.

#: 429 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    07-Oct-92  23:46:47
Sb: #346-Historical Metaphysics
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: safetynet 76570,1354

Bro. Dave,
RE: Presidents Reagan & Bush = NO
Rush Limbaugh = I don't know.

Wor. Scott 

#: 347 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    06-Oct-92  14:52:25
Sb: Historical Metaphysics
Fm: safetynet 76570,1354
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Continued...

I think that this is a great forum section, and look forward to more
information, and discussion.

Also, Tony, you said you were an uninformed "Cowan" I assume you are not a
mason, but have some rosicrutian ties.  I would be interested in knowing more
about you and what you do.

Again, send all Email attn:  Dave Lakhani, my room mate and I share compuserve,
and the registration is in his name.  Look forward to hearing back from all.

Dave Lakhani
Ashlar Lodge #29
Nampa, ID  

#: 349 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  15:09:02
Sb: SCRL App, Thanks!
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To:  72406,303 (X)

Bro. Mark --
I received the application to the SCRL in this morning's mail. (Well,
afternoon's thanks to the local Post Awful). Thank you very much for having
sent it and I will return it to them later this week. Fraternally,
-- Neil

#: 350 S6/The Shrine
    06-Oct-92  15:11:38
Sb: The Shrine
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: All Shriners

Hi --
I'm surprised that we have not as yet had any activity in this section or about
The Shrine in the databases. How about it, Shriners? Don't hide your light!
Please use this section to announce any local or regional events you are
planning. And a wonderful use of the LIBs could be such things as uploading
information on Shriner's Hospitals and the like....
-- Neil

#: 351 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    06-Oct-92  16:19:26
Sb: This New Section
Fm: Dave Lakhani 76570,1354
To: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401 (X)

Bro. Neil

Thanks for the info.  I didn't know I was safetynet, that is another forum that
I participate in relating to law enforcement, my primary occupation.

Thanks for the help, I'm checking into tapcis now, hopefully it will help save
some $$$.

Thanks
Dave 

#: 364 S4/York Rite
    06-Oct-92  20:14:39
Sb: #Ohio Grand Council
Fm: Edward C. Mack 76234,1020
To: ALL ALL

I just got back from the 163rd Assembly of the Grand Council of Royal and
Select Masons of Ohio (why did Ray Stevens just pop into my head? <g>), held at
the Aladdin Temple Shrine Mosque in Columbus. Met a few computer oriented type
Companions and made them aware of this forum.

This was my first "Grand" anything and found it most fascinating. I received
the Order of the Silver Trowel. I also solved the Petals Around the Rose
presented by a Past Ill. Grand Master. I got to wondering, was anyone at that
assembly who belongs to this forum?

-Ed Mack (Ill. M., Belmont Council 54, St. Clairsville, OH)

There are 2 Replies.

#: 404 S4/York Rite
    07-Oct-92  19:43:05
Sb: #364-Ohio Grand Council
Fm: William A. Siebert 70421,3064
To: Edward C. Mack 76234,1020

I was invited to it:  our new Grand High Priest being a Buckeye born and bred.
Didn't go:  I live too far north in MI, and besides the work locally keeps me
hopping.

               -- William A. Siebert
                       King, Bay City Chapter #59
                       PCW, Saginaw Council #20
                       EC, Bay City Commandery #26
                       Primate, NE Michigan College #16

#: 426 S4/York Rite
    07-Oct-92  23:46:36
Sb: #364-Ohio Grand Council
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Edward C. Mack 76234,1020

Ill. Ed,
Congratulations on receiving the Order of the Silver Trowel at your Grand
Council session.  I received mine at the session of my Grand Council of Mass in
1990.  I don't know if anyone else from the Forum was at your Grand session,
but I wanted to let you know you weren't alone in this regard.  I am afraid I
have never heard about the Petals Around the Rose that you solved.  Not part of
the work in Mass.
Fraternally,
Ill. Scott
PIM of Melrose Council, Melrose, MA 

#: 365 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  20:14:50
Sb: #Ring wanted (cheap)!
Fm: Edward C. Mack 76234,1020
To: ALL ALL

I'm interested in extremely inexpensive, new, signet type Blue Lodge rings,
solid alloy. I purchased one a number of months ago. The shiny gold finish has
worn off, expecially under the finger. I don't know what the base metal is, I
don't know who manufactured the ring, and I don't want to get lead poisoning.

If anyone would know of a manufacturer or a dealer of something like this, I
would appreciate any information. I will be using this as a "day" or "work"
ring. I don't want to ruin my gold ring.

Fraternally,

-Ed Mack

There is 1 Reply.

#: 413 S1/Collation & Chats
    07-Oct-92  20:53:54
Sb: #365-Ring wanted (cheap)!
Fm: Mark R. Sandstrom 72406,303
To: Edward C. Mack 76234,1020

Ed,

Macoy  has a selection of inexpensive rings in their catalog.  Give them a call
at 804/262-6551, or write to PO Box9759 / 3011 Old Dumbarton Rd., Richmond VA 
23228-0759.

Mark 

#: 368 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  20:57:33
Sb: #greetings
Fm: william white,jr. 76326,671
To:  76703,401 (X)

Congradulations on getting this forum going. I'm glad to see the hard work paid
off. In the directory of members is it possiable to have a listings of
affiliations? Do you have the Oasis files? I think Bro. Burner would share them
with you. I received more than I could read in a year from him for around 25.00
on hd ibm disc. Keep up the good work. WJWJR

There are 3 Replies.

#: 372 S1/Collation & Chats
    06-Oct-92  21:43:11
Sb: #368-greetings
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: william white,jr. 76326,671 (X)

Hi William --
Bro. Burner once told me we could have anything from Hiram's so I guess
uploading selections from those disks or however much you would like to would
be fine -- and appreciated!

In the directory you can enter any affiliations you would like. I am
encouraging members to do so!

Glad you found us! The What's New will hit on Thursday so we should be even
more active then!!
-- Neil

#: 383 S1/Collation & Chats
    07-Oct-92  04:27:43
Sb: #368-greetings
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: william white,jr. 76326,671 (X)

Bro. White <--- (I am assuming you are a Mason)

Allow me to bid you a hearty welcome to this Forum. I trust you will find your
participation here both educational and enjoyable.

Fraternally ----> Bill /DL (PM Mt. Diablo #448-Concord, Calif) 

#: 422 S1/Collation & Chats
    07-Oct-92  23:46:12
Sb: #368-greetings
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: william white,jr. 76326,671

Greetings Bro. William,
As I don't believe I have had the pleasure of corresponding with you before I
wanted to say hello and tell you how glad I am that you found us here.  Please
feel free to get in touch with me if I can do anything to make your visits here
more enjoyable.  Also, would you mind sharing with me your Lodge name and
location for our records?  Thanks!

Fraternally,
Wor. Scott Sherman, Sysop
PM of Waltham Triad Lodge, Waltham, MA -- living in MD 

#: 369 S14/Masonry & Computers
    06-Oct-92  20:58:17
Sb: computers
Fm: william white,jr. 76326,671
To:  70020,664 (X)

Russell, I think you may find a couple of programs for lodge secretaries on the
Hirams Oasis BBS. I uploaded a simple one there several months ago. The
information needs for most all Lodges will b e the same but those keeping it
will want to keep it the way they use at work. Our lodge sec uses an airloom (a
DEC Rainbow 100 I donated to them) dbase and WP.

Our GL has a new system which I havent seen but think is just a mass mail
system. They continue to maintain a card system in Columbia, S.C. I think they
paid some service to computerize the list with z+4. It seems to work quite well
(It looks good anyway with the bars and all) and Im sure that this will be of
immediate concern as the postal rate breaks become harder to get.

I work in xbase languages with Foxbase-Pro language and can compile to EXE's
(although there rather large files.) Will be glad to help in the logde programs
if there is a need for work in these languages.

WJWJR.

#: 373 S4/York Rite
    06-Oct-92  21:53:13
Sb: #Commandery=Christian=OK?
Fm: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645
To: Dr. PRESS 72730,1170

Wor. Bro. Stephen,
I decided to start a new thread and respond to your message to me here.  This
way others might see this topic and jump in.

I tend to agree that it is improper to call something Masonic that predicates
its membership on belief in a particular dogmatic theology instead of the
universality without dogma that is Masonry.  I also maintain that a
non-Christian who becomes a Knights Templar (and I have known several who have
said there is no problem or who have been used by others to show me there is no
problem) is in fact either untrue to his faith or his oath as a KT.  Either
condition would not make him someone worthy of membership.  IMHO.  That is, at
least, why I have never joined no matter how often I have been pressed to.

I have heard of the Order of Judah Maccabeus and think it is interesting; but
we don't need a "separate but equal" organization.  If Masonry is indeed color
blind as well as blind to those particulars of religion beyond belief in a
monotheistic Supreme Being;  then organizations which base their membership on
those things which we are charged not to talk about in Lodge because they can
separate men are, in fact, seemingly suspicious to me in a claim of being
Masonic.
Just my opinion.  But this place would be kind of dull if we didn't light some
fires and get people thinking once in awhile.

By the way, let me switch to my Sysop hat and extend to you a warm and
fraternal welcome to our Forum.  I am very happy you found us.  Would you mind
sharing with me how you heard about us?  Thank you also for providing you Lodge
information.
Fraternally,
Comp. Scott Sherman, Sysop
PHP of Reading RAC in Reading, MA & PIM of Melrose Council R&SM in Melrose, MA.


There is 1 Reply.

#: 396 S4/York Rite
    07-Oct-92  13:38:56
Sb: #373-Commandery=Christian=OK?
Fm: Brian Moriarty 76004,2123
To: Scott M. Sherman/Sysop 76547,2645 (X)

Scott: I now face a similar position. I'm receiving the Royal Arch degrees next
week, and the members of my Chapter are wondering why I have not also applied
for the Commandery. They become rather quiet when I tell them that I am not
interested in joining a group in which my Jewish friends cannot comfortably
participate. The embarrassment is compounded by the fact that the WM of my Blue
Lodge (I am his JW) is also the head of the local Commandery.

No Mason should have to face this kind of awkwardness. I agree with you 100%.

#: 377 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    06-Oct-92  23:47:34
Sb: #What ARE Rosicrucians?
Fm: John Coan 72377,25
To: All

I have heard that in 18th century England three organizations were considered
practically one in the same:  Freemasonry, the Royal Society, and Rosicrucians.
I am unable to find out much about the latter, the other two being fairly
straightforward to research.  So, my question, just what ARE Rosicrucians? 
What do they believe.  How similar are the degrees?  How many of them in the
US?  The World?  What are the connections?  Very curious am I on this...

 Fraternally, John Coan , JS of Hiram Lodge #40 of the GL of AF & AM of NC.



There are 3 Replies.

#: 397 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    07-Oct-92  16:12:25
Sb: #377-#What ARE Rosicrucians?
Fm: Ken McEntee 71241,2763
To: John Coan 72377,25 (X)


I am not a Mason, but am a former member of the Rosicrucian order (AMORC).
Being unfamiliar with the beliefs of the first two you mentioned, I cannot
compare them with Rosicrucian teachings. However, the Rosicrucians claim to go
back to o the ancient Egyptian period and have passed along through the ages
through such sects as the Essenes and the Great White Brotherhood and were much
involved in th the coming of the Messiah. Currently, world headquarters is
Rosicrician Park, San Jose, Calif. Contact them for info. The teachings are of
a mystical nature and focus on spiritual development, meditation, healing and
the essence of the universe. The teachings are most beneficial for everyday
living. I recently dropped out of the organization when political conflicts
developed in the upper ranks. Until now, the reputation of AMORC has been
unblemished and has truly been worthwhile to me. I still follow the teachings.
But, like everything else in this day and age, money makes people do strange
things. The infighting, which led to a coup in leadership, spoiled it for me.
Who was right and who was wrong is irrelevent. I thought the Rosicrucians were
above this material nonsense.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 405 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    07-Oct-92  19:47:22
Sb: #397-What ARE Rosicrucians?
Fm: John Coan 72377,25
To: Ken McEntee 71241,2763

Huummmm, sounds interesting Ken.  I did not know that there was a palace coup
recently in your group.  You might find it interesting to invest a little time
studying freemasonry.  Although I don't believe anyone considers our teachings
as being direct from the ancient mysteries, there are aspects of same which
carry forth the tradition.  Thanks for taking the time to reply!

Best Regards,

John



#: 410 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    07-Oct-92  20:26:24
Sb: #397-What ARE Rosicrucians?
Fm: Tony Alicea 70751,3077
To: Ken McEntee 71241,2763

Ken:

<<who was wrong is irrelevent. I thought the Rosicrucians were above this
material nonsense.>>

Not so, Frater, I'll get back to you & this section on that.
Rmember: As long as there is a material org, things CAN go wrong for
a short while until they are right again. Otherwise there would be
nothing to learn/gain. Repeat: As long as we are in the "material world", s___
can and will happen... As long as you have humans involved, s___ can happen.
IMHO I think you should check AMORC again...

Fraternally,

Tony Alicea
   

#: 398 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    07-Oct-92  16:19:11
Sb: #377-#What ARE Rosicrucians?
Fm: Ken McEntee 71241,2763
To: John Coan 72377,25 (X)

To help you further, let me quote from AMORC membership ad: Discover in your
lifetime the secrets of a thousand lifetimes. Since the dawn of civilization
humanity has attempted to solve the mysteries of life. What knowledge has been
unearthed unearthed about who we are and what governs our universe? For
centuries, the Rosicrician Order, AMORC, a non-profit worldwide, educational
institution, has revealed the knowledge gained revealed the knowledge gained
from all ages that can help you create, in your own spectacular way, a life
filled with purpose and meaning. Today it's hard for anyone to discern truthful
claims from fantasy. That's why we offer a free introductory booklet fully
explaining who we are and how we can help you reach your potential....Call
800-88-AMORC. 1342 Naglee Ave. San Jose, CA 95191-0001. Good luck in your
search. - Ken

There is 1 Reply.

#: 406 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    07-Oct-92  19:47:29
Sb: #398-What ARE Rosicrucians?
Fm: John Coan 72377,25
To: Ken McEntee 71241,2763

Thank you Ken for your reply.  Are you a mason too?  Can you shed any light
upon the similarities or dissimilarities of the two orders?  I have always
heard that Rosicrucians are believers in reincarnation.   True?

Best Regards,

John



#: 411 S15/Masonic Metaphysics
    07-Oct-92  20:27:56
Sb: #377-What ARE Rosicrucians?
Fm: Tony Alicea 70751,3077
To: John Coan 72377,25

John, Ken and the rest: 

<<For centuries, the Rosicrician Order... the knowledge gained
from all ages...  Today it's hard for anyone to discern truthful
claims from fantasy.>>

Let me suggest that anyone interested in the Rosicrucian theme,
for starters, consult an encyclopedia. How about the one that we
can access here in Compuserve, the "American" something
encyclopedia...

Rosicrucianism is not just an org you join; it is a philosophy,
an attitude towards life which is essentially empirical and
scientific in it's approach AND mystical too! :-)

Fact: A Rosicrucian is an ambulating question mark.

Before a Royal Society there was the "Invisible College",
"Invisible" being a long time nick name for the Rosicrucians :-)
There are historians that doubt whether there was ever an
organized society known as Rosicrucians! But respected authors
say that the Royal Society was an offshoot of the Rosicrucian
Enlightenment of the time (Sir Francis Bacon is big here...) Ask
me for references... :-)

About the Egyptian connection, there was *no* society then called
"Rosicrucian". The mystical ideals of (esp.) Pharaoh Akhnaton
have had a great influence in what subsequently became the
Rosicrucian movement. Also, the society is molded in the likeness
of the early Egyptian Mystery schools when knowledge about the
universe was (unfortunately) available to the few because of the
prevalent ignorance of the (then) masses (no public schools then!
:-)  Joseph Fort Newton, great (IMHO) masonic writer begins his
book (THE BUILDERS) by mentioning the Egyptians mystery
schools... I have to say that that book is one of the best
masonic books I have ever read! (Newton seems to have doubted
himself the actual existence of the Rosicrucians...)

Tony Alicea 

#: 401 S1/Collation & Chats
    07-Oct-92  18:40:51
Sb: mag via airmail
Fm: Allen E. Roberts 70007,1741
To: Allan Elliott

Allan [D:It will cost $2.93 to send *The Philalethes* via air to Australia.
It's hardly worth spending that much every two months. There's usually nothing
of immediate urgency published. Your first issue is on the way -- and you may
have already received it. Your next one will arrive about two months from now.
It's gonna be that way regardless of whether it flies or swims. Best, Allen

#: 402 S13/Becoming A Mason
    07-Oct-92  18:56:58
Sb: #I've had my 1st letter
Fm: pryce morgan jones 100060,321
To: all

Greetings to you all from a (hopefully) new member from North Wales, UK.

I have been fortunate enough to be put forward for nomination in one of the
local lodges, I have at long last received my 1st letter. "My case comes up
next week or so" <G>. If you lot would welcome "Masonry in the eyes of a
newboy" once in a while I would very much enjoy the opportunity.

My future lodge (again..hopefully) will be St. Christopher #6034 UK.
       my kindest regards to all........ pryce morgan jones.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 409 S13/Becoming A Mason
    07-Oct-92  20:16:13
Sb: #402-I've had my 1st letter
Fm: John Coan 72377,25
To: pryce morgan jones 100060,321

Pryce,  What a interesting story!  I don't know exactly what a "first letter"
means to you, but from the context I would surmise that it means that your
petition was received and will soon be voted upon.  Good luck to you! I and I'm
sure many of the other forum members will look forward to hearing of your
experiences.

Best Regards,

John



#: 432 S13/Becoming A Mason
    08-Oct-92  00:13:44
Sb: #402-I've had my 1st letter
Fm: William Wine/DL 72435,1512
To: pryce morgan jones 100060,321

Dear (almost-a-brother) Pryce,

A most hearty fraternal welcome my friend to this truely international Masonic
Forum. As for being new. Some of the best and more enjoyable information comes
from the eyes and minds of those just starting out in our Fraternity. You are
the first one from the UK that I have noticed here. We all here come from
various parts of the US and the world with differing Masonic and non-Masonic
backgrounds. I trust your participation with be educational, inspirational, and
more importantly enjoyable. I know I'd be sorely disappointed if you didn't
continue here especially after telling us that you are just starting out on
your Masonic journey. <G> Good luck with your interviews and please keep us
posted.

Sinserely ---> Bill Wine /DL (PM Mt. Diablo #448-Concord, California) 

#: 415 S1/Collation & Chats
    07-Oct-92  21:22:12
Sb: files
Fm: william white,jr. 76326,671
To:  76703,401

Bro. Neil, Is it possiable for me to mail the files I have here to you? If so
leave email to me with address. As I have only LD connection to CIS which gets
rather expensive. I may be able to get a listing from Bro. Burner already
sorted as to catagories.
                         William J. White, Jr.
                         Centre #37
                         Honea Path, S.C.

#: 416 S6/The Shrine
    07-Oct-92  21:24:49
Sb: HEJAZ
Fm: william white,jr. 76326,671
To: all

AIN'T NO JAZZ LIKE HEJAZ -  Weeere fixing to get started back up. Will probably
be having degree work again this fall. Glad Ive already been through.. WJWJR.

Exiting at 08-Oct-92  05:44:50
Thank you for visiting Masonry Forum

Off at 05:44 EDT 8-
NO CARRIER
