Date: 03-14-97 (12:57)              Number: 149 of 151 (Refer# NONE)
  To: ALL
From: glof1001@aol.com, PATRICE D  [FR]
Subj: Re: Older v. Younger
Read: (N/A)                         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Conf: alt.freemasonry (12)       Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+)

Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry
Organization: Lodge l'Etoile #1001 @ GLoF
Message-ID: <AF4EFBAD966898134@ppp63.par.hol.fr>

In article <33234DC5.4F19@horizon.hit.net>,
"Rob H." <tornado@horizon.hit.net> wrote:

>We _must_
>develop a business sense about us and maintain growth in the
>marketplace.
>
>Some may look upon the previous statement with disdain, but, fact is
>fact be it sad or not. If you do not move forward, you will stagnate and
>die. Business fact folks. Like it or not. This fact not only applies to
>business, but to each and every individual aspect of our personal lives
>also.

My Dear Brother,

Congratulations for your actions.

Please, do not consider my post as disdain, but I thought that you would
like to know that where I live, Freemasonry is far more discreet than in
the US. It is very difficult to get in and it takes at least a year between
the petition and the Initiation. From then on it takes between 4 and 6
years to go from EA to MM and about 17 more to reach the 32nd (and few
manage that). Our fees are about US$ 400 per year (and per Lodge). The
Brethren are expected to prepare original papers about symbolism, history,
philosophy or even on a scientific subject, viewed from a Masonic
perspective. After delivering their paper to the Lodge, they must defend it
and answer the questions from the Brethren.

Masonry here is a rather difficult path. One needs much patience and
determination to get in, must show assiduousness and efforts to progress,
and it is not cheap. However, since the 1960's, my Grand Lodge has doubled
its membership every ten years and keeps growing. The average attendance is
over 80%.

All this to say that, although I do respect your efforts and dearly hope
you will keep up the good work, I am not convinced that "selling" Masonry
is the way to attract dedicated Brethren. Our Craft is, I think, an
initiatic path, a quest. Joining must be an individual and personal
decision and I think that it is utterly important for the quality of
initiation that the candidates feel that they have found us, not that
they've been recruited.

Sincerely and Fraternally,

Patrice
Loge l'Etoile #1001
Grande Loge de France


Date: 04-06-97 (12:14)              Number: 443318 of 443691 (Refer# NONE)
  To: preston.burner, PRESTON BURNER
From: nking@onramp.ca, NELSON KING, FPS
Subj: PSOC Quality vs Quantity
Read: NO                            Status: RECEIVER ONLY
Conf: Internet E-Mail (1)        Read Type: MAIL FOR YOU (A) (+)

Message-Id: <m0wDuaz-001DfvC@mail.tor.onramp.ca>
Reply-To: <nking@onramp.ca>
From: "Nelson King, FPS" <nking@onramp.ca>

Some months ago a friend sent me this. It is the procedure for becoming a
Mason, in The Grand Lodge of France. A Grand Lodge that doubles in size
every 9 - 10 years. A Grand Lodge where it takes a year or more between
degrees. Although most of our Grand Lodges do not recognize the Grand Lodge
of France, it appears that the Grand Lodge of France adheres to the Ancient
Charges, and therefore COULD be considered Regular but unrecognized. This
posting is NOT about recognition, it is about the quality of candidates. If
appears that when the quality goes up so does the quantity

1) The potential candidate gets in touch with a Master Mason or writes to
the Grand Lodge, which appoints a proposer from a lodge which, in the Grand
Secretary's opinion, best fits the potential candidate's profile.

2) The proposer gets from the candidate a signed application on a special
application form, two photographs, a curriculum vitae and a certificate
indicating that he has no police or criminal record, all of which he gives
to the WM. The proposer, unless appointed by the GS, remains anonymous so
as not to influence the decision of the Lodge.

2) The WM meets the candidate so as to get a first-hand opinion about him.
If the opinion is unfavourable, the WM informs the proposer, explains his
reasons, and  has the right to stop the process right here.

3) If the WM has no objection, he presents the application to the Lodge.
The curriculum vitae is read, the photographs circulated. The committee is
the whole Lodge. If anyone knows the candidate, he says so and makes his
comments. Brethren who do not know the candidate refrain from commenting.
The Lodge casts a first ballot. If the ballot is favourable (three quarters
of the members present) the WM nominates three investigators. Their names
are not communicated to the Lodge.

4) Each investigator separately meets the candidate as often as required to
form an opinion of him. One, preferably, at the candidate's home, another
at his work, the third one in a public place. Then each prepares a written
report (the one I detailed in my previous message), clearly stating in his
conclusions if he is favourable or not to the candidate's admission. The WM
reads the reports in Lodge and a second ballot is cast. If the ballot is
favourable the candidate is invited for an interview in Lodge.

5) The candidate is brought in Lodge blindfolded, and seated on a straight-
backed chair in the middle of the Western part of the Lodge. The Brethren
ask him any questions they deem necessary. Some questions are meant to be
destabilising, to test the candidate's self-control. This lasts 20 minutes
to half an hour, but is often perceived and remembered as having lasted for
hours. I remember it so. Then the candidate is led out and the Lodge casts
the third and last ballot. If the ballot is favourable, the candidate will
be initiated at the next opportunity.

If any of the first two ballots are negative, the candidate is postponed
for a year and the process restarted from the beginning. If the third
ballot is negative, the Lodge may decide a postponement or a rejection.
Applications are sometimes withdrawn during the process if it appears that
the candidate stands little chance to be admitted. There is very little
chance for one, or even a few bigots of any nature to stop the progression
of a good candidate. No one knows who the proposer or the investigators
are, so personal animosity against one of them does not affect the
selection process.

The Grand Lodge of France have a form printed  which the investigators must
use. This form defines some opinions each of the three investigators must
try and develop about the candidate as well as questions which must be
asked as a minimum. The list is as follows:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
1.- THE MAN AS AN INDIVIDUAL.

	A.- THE PAST:
		a) training and schooling, university degrees.
		b) Education and life experience.
	B.- THE PRESENT:
		a) Morality
		b) Religious sentiments.
		c) Philosophical ideas.
		d) appearance.
		e) Tastes.
		f ) Character.
		g) Group activities (group sports, charity, active
		    membership in cultural and educational organizations, etc.)
h) Recreational activities (music, other arts, individual sports, reading,
           hobbies.
		I ) The company he keeps.
	C.- THE FUTURE:
		a) Capacity for self-betterment.
		b) Hopes.
		c) Ambitions.
		d) Aims in life.

2.- THE MAN AND HIS FAMILY.
	Parents, wife, children; relationship with siblings and friends.
	Relations with Masons he might know.

3.- THE MAN AND HIS JOB.
	Attitude and behavior at work.
	Relationship with co-workers, customers and suppliers.

4.- THE MAN AND HIS FELLOW MEN.
	Courtesy, good manners, generosity, fairness, economic
              and social views, political preferences.

5).- THE MAN AND FREEMASONRY.
	A.- How and why did he decide to apply?
	B.- How much can he profit, morally and spiritually, from
	     becoming a Mason?
	C.- How much does he seem able to usefully participate
	     to the construction of the symbolic Temple?
6.- POLICE OR CRIMINAL RECORD.
	Does the candidate have any criminal or police record, even
	pardoned or amnestied?

7.- THE INVESTIGATOR'S CONCLUSIONS.
	The investigator's general opinion of the candidate and the
	advisability of accepting his application, postponing and re-
	investigating the candidate or rejecting him.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Notes:
a) The questions about the candidate's religious, philosophical and
political ideas are meant to weed out fanaticism of any kind: Atheistic or
religious, right- wing or left- wing political or philosophical extremism.
b) Any police or criminal record more serious than a traffic ticket is
grounds for immediate rejection of a candidate, even if pardoned or
amnestied.

.
Date: 04-07-97 (01:35)              Number: 443673 of 443691 (Refer# NONE)
  To: preston.burner, PRESTON BURNER
From: Jacques_R_M_Huyghebaert@compuserve.com, JACQUES HUYGHEBAERT
Subj: PSOC Quality vs Quantity
Read: NO                            Status: RECEIVER ONLY
Conf: Internet E-Mail (1)        Read Type: GENERAL (-)

From: Jacques Huyghebaert <Jacques_R_M_Huyghebaert@compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <199704070135_MC2-13DE-C712@compuserve.com>

Dear Nelson,

>> It is the procedure for becoming a Mason, in The Grand Lodge of France
... This posting is NOT about recognition, it is about the quality of
candidates. If appears that when the quality goes up so does the quantity
<<

Indeed, quality generates invariably more quality .  The method you
describe is however in no way unique for the GLF but has been followed for
about 2 centuries at least by European Masons in general.

You may be interested to know that even among the most irregular bodies in
Europe e.g. the Grand Orient of France the same strict method applies.  It
is neither easy to become a member, nor easy to advance.  Only after having
been thoroughly examined are GOF candidates accepted, only after having
presented their own work in lodge can they be taken into consideration for
the next degree. One year between degrees applies nearly everywhere.  Never
has this been an obtstacle for developement !

I think that on the contrary, exclusivity of membership produces respect of
the order with non-masons and increases their desire to join.  When I lived
in India, in Sri Lanka or even in Guyana, I observed the same phenomenon.
Now living in the Czech Republic I can again see the same attitude : it
takes average one year to screen a candidate and many are rejected. In none
of these countries has Masonry problems of membership.

Fraternally yours
Jacques


