Thanks to Rowan Moonstone,  of Oklahoma City,  for the following materials.
Section  One is an excerpt from the May 28,  1986  broadcast of a Christian
radio talk-show called "Point of View"  by Marlin Maddoux,  interviewing  a
Mr. Ed Decker on the subject of Mormonism.  Section Two is the letter which
Rowan  wrote to request clarification.   Section Three is the response  she
recieved,  not from Ed Decker, but from a former Milwaukee witch named Bill
Schnoebelen.
___________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________

Decker: "...  The Mormon goes up to the veil and embraces the man represen-
ting the Lord.  Foot to foot, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand to back,
and  mouth to ear,  exactly as you do in Masonry on the five points of fel-
lowship.  And when the Mason whispers 'Ma Ha Bone' the Mormon says, 'Health
in the navel, marrow in the bones, strength in the loins and in the sinews,
power  in  the priesthood be upon me and upon my posterity  throughout  all
generations of time and eternity.'"

Maddoux: "They say things like this in the Masons?   Talk about priesthoods
and so on?"

Decker:  "Well, no, but see, the interesting part about that same chant:  I
have  a manuscript of a High Priest in Wicca priesthood.   Again,  they use
the Enochian Keys,  the Keys of Enoch,  which is actually backward masking,
backward language, and in the Grimorum Verum, which is the highest document
of  the highest ritual of Wicca Witchcraft.   They use the,  'Health in the
navel,  marrow in the bone, strength in the loins and sinews,'  except they
use some foul language along with it, but it's word for word the same chant
that is done in the Mormon temple ritual.   Word for word.   And so,  we're
dealing  with Witchcraft here,  we're dealing with Satanism,  and this  all
ties  together not only with Mormonism,  but it carries over into  Masonry.
..."
___________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________

                                                              P O Box 21058
                                                              OKC, OK 73120
                                                              May 28, 1986

Mr. Ed Decker
Box 1076
Issaquah, Wash. 98027

Dear Mr. Decker,
     Today I heard you speak with Mr. Marlin Maddoux on "Point of View."  I
was very interested to learn of the connections between Mormonism and Free-
masonry.   One other thing that you mentioned has me  curious.   You stated
that you had a transcript of a Wiccan High Priest chanting  "Health to  the
navel,  Marrow in the bone,  strength in the loins and the sinews, power in
the  Priesthood be upon me and my posterity from  generation  to generation
through all Eternity."  I find this very interesting.  I myself am a Pries-
tess of Wicca.  You are erroneous, I believe on several counts.  First, the
Wicca rituals are conducted  by a Priestess,  as we believe that the repre-
sentative  of the Goddess rules supreme in the Circle.   Secondly,   I have
never heard of the Grimorum Verbum in ANY Wicca Tradition.   I  myself am a
Priestess  in  the  Georgian Tradition,  and have  studied  enough  of  the
Alexandrian, Gardnerian, Celtic, and Isian traditions to know that there is
nothing  by that name in any tradition I have ever heard of.   Our book  of
rituals  is called the Book of Shadows and it contains all of the  documen-
tation belonging to our religion.   Thirdly, I have led and participated in
numerous rituals all across the country for several years and I have  NEVER
heard any "backward masking"  or backwards language used in any ritual any-
where,  nor have I ever seen it used in print in any of  the numerous Wicca
or Pagan publications or any of the better books on the subject.   The only
time  I  have ever seen it used is in some of the terrible books  that came
out  in  the early 60's.   The people who wrote these  works  were  neither
Witches,   nor had most of them ever even met a Witch,  let alone practiced
the true teachings of the Craft.   I  don't know what kind of material  you
have in your possession,  but it certainly isn't Wicca material.  It may be
some  kind  of Ceremonial Magic ritual,  or Satanic in nature,  but  I  can
assure you,  it isn't Wicca.   I  would be very interested to see a copy of
this manuscript if you would be willing to Xerox me a copy of it.   If  you
are  interested  in the true teachings of Wicca,  I  suggest you check  out
"What Witches Do",  "Eight Sabbats for Witches",  and "Witches Way"  all by
Stewart and Janet Farrar,  "The Complete Art of Witchcraft"  by Sybil Leek,
"Witchcraft for Tomorrow"  by Doreen Valiente,  "Positive Magic"  by Marion
Weinstein,  "Drawing Down the Moon" by Margot Adler,  or "The Spiral Dance"
by Starhawk.  Other good books include "Witchcraft Today" by Gerald Gardner
(the founder of the Gardnerian Tradition),  "The Meaning of Witchcraft"  by
the same man,  and "A History of Witches, Sorcerors, Heretics,  and Pagans"
by  Jeffrey  B.  Russell.   If you are interested,  I  would be willing  to
correspond with you on the subject.   I  don't mind if you disagree with me
on theology, just get your facts straight.  Please let me know if I need to
send you postage for the copy of the ritual you mentioned.

                                                 Thank you, and Blessed Be,
                                                 (signed)
                                                 Rowan Moonstone
                                                 P O Box 21058
                                                 OKC. OK 73120

P.S.
Two other points I forgot to mention:
1. I have never heard any foul language used in any Wicca ritual. In fact I
   have  never  heard or seen anything in a Wicca Circle that could not  be
   done in the presence of small children (who are frequently there!).

2. Satanism and Wicca are NOT the same thing.   If you read the books I re-
   commended  to  you and then read some of the works on Satanism  such  as
   Mike  Warnke's "Satan Seller",  "Michelle Remembers",  and "The  Satanic
   Bible"  by Anton Levay,  I  think you will find a vast difference in the
   philosophies.  Nowhere in the Wicca books is Child Abuse, white slavery,
   sexual  depravity,   or  violence  advocated.   Not so  in  the  Satanic
   references.  There IS a BIG difference.
___________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________

Box 3352
Dubuque, IA. 52001
July 2, 1986

Rowan Moonstone
P.O.Box 21058
Oklahoma City, OK. 73120

Dear Ms. Moonstone,

I hope you will pardon me for taking the liberty of writing to you  direct-
ly.    Ed Decker was kind enough to forward to me a copy of the letter  you
sent  him concerning his radio remarks on witchcraft.   You see,  I  am the
"Wiccan high priest"  he mentioned,  and he felt I might be able to  better
respond to your questions.

To begin with,  I  must say that in all candour, I  would have written just
such a letter as yours in response to Mr.  Decker about ten years ago.    I
was  a  sincere devotee of the Great Mother and believed that there  was  a
profound difference between the Wicca and satanists.

I  thought  that all that Wicca consisted of was beneficial rituals to  the
nature deities and rites of passage.   It only took me 16  years of  ardent
effort  to  find  out I was wrong and that my only hope for  true  spritual
fulfillment  in this life was in Jesus--to say nothing of my  condition  in
the afterlife!

Since  you  seem  to  doubt  my existence,  please  allow  me  to  list  my
credentials,  such as they are.  I  was initiated into the Alexandrian rite
of Wicca in 1968,  and was made a 3rd degree high priest and magus in 1973.
I  and my wife established covens all over the Midwest--Dubuque,   Madison,
Milwaukee,  Chicago,  etc.; and have initiated over 170  people.   We moved
onto higher degrees in the Craft and also were made a high priestly  couple
in the Druidic Craft of the Wise.

We were,  up until our departure from the city of Milwaukee in 1984,   pre-
siding over the oldest  and largest network of covens  in the southern Wis-
consin area.    We have also studied under Tim and Morning G'zell and Gavin
and Yvonne Frost.

I  don't  know how long you have been involved in Wicca,  and  I  certainly
don't want to seem condescending;   but I'm afraid that you are in the dark
about the true  nature of your religion--not only spiritual,  but even his-
torically.

About a year after becoming a high priest (1974),  I  was told by my initi-
ators  that  actually Wicca was not what it seems.   Although much  of  the
extant  material written by witches (and also Dr.  Margaret Murray's  work)
would lead one to believe that Wicca is a survival of the ancient fertility
cults, still practicing in the modern world, there is not one shred of real
historical  proof  for any connection between Paleolithic cults and  modern
witchcraft.

Actually a careful study of Doreen Valiente's work,  as well as of our tea-
cher's (craft name Hieronymous) research in the British Museum would reveal
that Wicca is,  in fact, a  manufactured religion--not much older than this
century.   There is no evidence for any "Book of Shadows"  being older than
the 1910's!

I  don't know what version of the Book of Shadows you use (not being  fami-
liar with your tradition),  but the Alexandrian/Gardnerian BofS was made up
out of whole cloth, mostly by the infamous satanist Aleister Crowley;  with
a  few additions by Gerald Gardner.   The only witches prior to the  1890's
were,  in fact, classical satanists!   This is a matter of historical fact,
researched by witches much more scholarly than I!

Even  a  cursory study of such works as IL VANGELO DELLA STREGA (Gospel  of
the  Witches)  by Leland will reveal that the god of witchcraft is  Lucifer
(although he goes by many other names: Kernunnos, Pan, Bel, etc.).  Lucifer
is the enemy of Jesus Christ.

Now obviously, you have the right to worship anyone you please,  anyhow you
please;    but  you  must realize that the religion you follow  is  just  a
slightly sanitized version of continental Satan-worship!  If you think it's
just  a nice little nature cult with herbs and circles,  you  are  deluding
yourself tragically.

Let's look at the word "Wicca",  as an example.  The Oxford English Dictio-
nary  reveals that the word does not mean "Wise One"--nor is it  pronounced
"Wikka" but "Wicha!"  (So much for careful research.)  It means "twisted or
bent,  warped."  As Anton Levay points out,  virtually every language has a
word  for "witch"  and ALL of them are of evil meaning:   venefica ("curse-
bringer"), pharmacopaeia ("poisoner"), strega ("curser").  It has only been
since  the  1920's that witches have been trying to make  themselves  sound
"nice."

In  my own personal development as a witch (and those of all our colleagues
and  pupils;   which is the only area I feel I can comment  authoritatively
upon);  I found that after about 6 years it was necessary to begin pursuing
the study of Satanism in order to keep growing.   In short,  my friend,  if
you aren't a Satanist yet, it's only because you haven't gotten that far in
it.

By the time of my tenth anniversary in the Craft, I  had found it necessary
to  become a full-fledged satanist;   but even in our earlier days,   there
were many things going  on in circles which we  would not have wanted chil-
dren to see (i.e., the "Great Rite").   You are correct, there is no actual
obscenity  in  most  Wicca rituals--although I've been at  several  of  the
Madison based CIRCLE NETWORK festivals where original rituals were done  in
which "four-letter words" abounded.

Please  allow  me the courtesy of responding specifically to the  excellent
points  raised  in your letter.   About the actual chant mentioned  by  Mr.
Decker--"Health  in the navel,  marrow in the bones,  strength in the loins
and in the  sinews;    power in the priesthood be upon  me and upon my pos-
terity throughout all generations of time and all eternity."  Is there any-
thing in that chant that you, as a witch, would object to?  I don't honest-
ly think there is.

It is a perfectly Pagan thing to work for--health,  vitality and  children;
both  now and through all time.   Now you protest in your letter  that  the
Priestess rules the circle,  and that a High Priest would not be doing  any
chanting.  That may be true in the Georgian tradition, but it is not in the
Alexandrian/Gardnerian.

We followed what Frederick Adams called the Royal Passions of the Year--the
Sabbaths.   We believed that the Goddess (and her representative,  the High
Priestess) reigns supreme from Beltane to Samhain because this was the time
of  the fertility of the earth--farming &c.   Then from Samhain to  Beltane
the  Horned  God reigned supreme (and ergo,  the High Priest);   since  the
winter was the  time when hunting was the only means of survival in ancient
times.

Therefore, in our rite,  it was perfectly acceptable for the High Priest to
reign and perform ceremonies during the winter sabbaths.  This even went so
far  as  to have the High Priestess crown the High Priest on  Samhain  (and
then  have the crown returned to her on Beltane).   You are right in saying
that the Goddess reigns supreme, in our trad. because she was thought to be
eternal  while the god lives and dies and then is reborn through her  every
Imbolc.    For us,  the High Priestess reigns supreme in all esbats  (lunar
feasts), and in half the sabbaths (solar feasts).  Okay?

Now,  in the Alexandrian rite, the "sign" of the 2nd degree is the inverted
pentagram--the  symbol  of the Goat of Mendez,  covering the  seven  bottom
Sephirot  of the Tree of Life.   In our rite,  the 2nd dgree is more  male-
oriented,   and  we are taught that to invoke power and prosperity  on  the
earth plane, it was necessary to use inverted invoking pentagrams.  For us,
the inverted pentagram was the symbol of the god,  the upright, the sign of
the Goddess.   Thus, already in 2nd degree,  we were skating on the fringes
of satanic practice.

About the GRIMORUM VERUM, don't be surprised if you haven't heard about it.
Very  few  witches have heard of it below the grade of Adeptus  Major  (6th
degree).   It, and another grimoire, THE GREAT MOTHER, are the ritual books
of  the highest degrees of witchcraft I got into.   Only after eleven years
of hard work did I learn of their existence.   To be "worthy", I  needed to
have  seven  covens under us and over 99  initiates directly linked to  us.
That was how we learned of it.

Concerning backward masking in rituals,  Brother Decker was talking about a
common enough practice in the upper degrees of magick.   The Enochian keys,
or  calls,  which I trust you have heard of,  were first published  by  Dr.
Israel  Regardie in his GOLDEN DAWN.   Regardie,  whether intentionally  or
ignorantly,  published the calls backwards!  Now many ceremonial magickians
used the GOLDEN DAWN volumes as their ritual bibles, not realizing this.

Anton  LaVey came along in 1967  and published his SATANIC BIBLE and aluded
coyly to the fact that to really work,  the keys had to be said backwards--
which is correct.  Therefore, any magickian worth his or her salt, would be
saying the Enochian calls backwards.

You are right in saying that this is not precisely Paganism,  there being a
slight  difference between a witch and a magickian.   Witches  worship  the
gods,  magickians try to command and conquer them, and believe they can be-
come  gods themselves.   In the Alexandrian rite,  we get into  magick  and
hermetics in the higher degrees--many Wicca groups don't.

All  of this neglects the central dilemma you are in.   You are part  of  a
system of ritual which is ultimately controlled by Satan!   It doesn't mat-
ter if you don't believe in Satan, since most witches deny him.  He's still
there.  Just because you don't believe in gravity, doesn't mean that if you
jump  off  a cliff you won't get splattered all over the  landscape!    I'm
afraid you're whistling in the dark.

May I tell you why I left the Craft?   Both my wife and I worked VERY  hard
to be the best possible leaders of covens.   We knocked ourselves out!   We
studdied, we practiced rituals;  we counselled our people and tried to help
them with their various problems.  We were desperately sincere; and thought
we were worshipping the true Ancient Harmonies of the Universe.  We thought
Christianity was just a bigoted, monotheistic system of legalistic jive.

But we were never really at peace.  We did all the right things,  and tried
to help our people grow on the path of Wisdom,  but they were never  really
fulfilled either.  They would say they were happy, but their eyes were dark
and hollow.  They would say they were fulfilled, but their lives denied it.
We  were  the  ONLY married couple we knew in all our years of  Wicca  that
didn't break up!

Most of the people we tried to help got worse!   Many of them became either
so  filled with their own egos that they could never relate to anyone else;
or  else they sank deeper and deeper into the mire of dope or liquor.   Two
or three ended up insane and institutionalized.   The longest standing mar-
riage in our sphere of groups (next to ours)  ended with the husband an al-
coholic and the wife psychotic!

Now  maybe this hasn't been your experience,  but again--are you running  a
coven?  Have you seen the inside of the people you work with as they hunger
and  strive  for happiness and peace?   Or have you just seen  the  smiling
fronts  they put up so everone thinks they're happy?   Believe me,   Rowan,
there's an awful lot of really HURTING people out there in Wicca.

In Milwaukee,  we had psychic wars between groups.  Witches in other groups
were  shooting each other because of adultery!   Pagans like to make fun of
Catholics  because of all the wars they started,  but let me tell  you--the
only  difference  between the Pagans and the Catholics is that  the  Pagans
never ran a government and had the power to raise armies.   I  used to read
THE  GREEN EGG,  Tim Zell's magazine from the Church of All Worlds  in  St.
Louis,   and every month there would be some vicious feud going on  in  the
letter columns.   I don't know if you go back that far or not,  but it sad-
dened me, even then!

Why  is this?   Because you are dealing with sinful,  fallen human beings--
that's why?  The human heart is desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9).   With-
out  Jesus  Christ,  people are going to act just like a bunch  of  spoiled
brats!    Look  around  you--how else can you account for the evil  in  the
world?  Killing, rapes, bigotry, wars--these are the fruits of Satan.   But
love,  joy,  peace, patience,  long-suffering,--these are the fruits of the
Holy Spirit.

You may not call yourself a satanist, but if you have not made Jesus Christ
the absolute Lord of your life,  then you are in Satan's power.  We learned
this  the hard way!   No amount of effort,  study or practice on your  part
will ever bring you the peace or fulfillment you seek.   Nor will belonging
to any church, Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, or Pagan.

Christianity is not a religion,  it is a RELATIONSHIP with the Lord of  the
universe,  Jesus Christ.  I don't know what your religious background (pre-
Wicca)  was, but don't let the churches and the bigotry confuse you.   Only
trusting  in Jesus for salvation can make you a Christian (Romans  10:13)--
not  church membership or following some bunch of legalistic rules.    That
was a lie foisted on the world by the Catholics, and then gradually adopted
by many major denominations--but it is not what the Bible says:

"If you shall confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord,  and shall
believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead,  YOU SHALL  BE
SAVED.   For with the heart, man believes unto righteousness;  and with the
mouth confession is made unto salvation."--Romans 10:9-10.

Those  religionists  who have made a career out of frightening  people  and
making  them  work  their way to God were preaching a lie from the  pit  of
hell.  You don't have to live your life in an agony of wondering about your
fate after death.   Nor do you have to worry about "karma" and the wheel of
rebirth.  John the Apostle wrote:

"These things have I written to you THAT BELIEVE IN THE NAME OF THE SON  OF
GOD;   that you may KNOW that you have eternal life."--1  John 5:13.    Not
hope--but  KNOW that you can have eternal life with God  forever.    That's
some promise!  All you need to receive it is simply do these four things:
1)  Admit that you're not perfect, that you're a sinner, as we all are "for
all have sinned and come short of the glory  of God"--(Romans 3:23) and re-
alize that it is only by having faith in Jesus and Him only for your salva-
tion that you can  become a child of God and heir to the promise (Ephesians
2:8-9).
2)  Pray and ask Jesus to come into your heart and take away your sins--ask
Him to be your saviour (1 Timothy 2:5).
3)   Make Him the Lord of your life, which means that you will do your best
to keep His Word (John 14:15).  This will simply be an act of gratitude for
the precious gift that He has given you.
4)    Then KNOW that you are saved,  and that Satan has no hold on you  any
longer.  You have full assurance of heaven--assurance that no man can give,
but that Jesus can (John 14:6).

It's that simple!  Please consider it, Rowan.   Why put your trust in books
and rituals written by flawed men and women--especially since much of it is
phoney?   Put your trust in the Bible!  God has promised that His Word (who
is Jesus--see John 1:1,14) is perfect and eternal and will outlast the hea-
vens and the earth.  Can't you take Him at His word?

Realize  (as I did,  after much study and research)  that not one  Biblical
prophecy has failed to happen EXACTLY as predicted;  and that Jesus Himself
was the fulfillment of over 300 Old Testament prophecies.   Some prophecies
in Daniel were for events hundreds of years in the future, and yet all have
been fulfilled.  What witch or occultist has that kind of track record?

Please  remember  we're talking about eternity here.   What if your  belief
system is wrong?   God's Word says that without Jesus you will go into  the
lake of fire (Revelations 21:8).

Are  the books and people in whom you are putting your faith for  spiritual
success really that trustworthy?   Don't you owe it to yourself to at least
investigate what I'm saying?

Wicca,  however noble and idealistic it might seem,  is a modern,  manufac-
tured  religion created by cleaning up continental satanism a bit.    There
are really only two kinds of Wiccans--the higher ups who know that Satan is
their god;   and the innocent ones of lower rank who think they're worship-
ping nature deities.  Listen to what God's Word says about that:

"Professing to be wise..."  (wise ones?)"...they became fools,  and changed
the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible  man
--and birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things.
"Therefore  God  also  gave them up to uncleaness,  in the lusts  of  their
hearts,  to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth
of God for the lie,  and worshipped and served the creature rather than the
Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen." (Romans 1:22-25)

I'm  sorry to be so longwinded,  but I know just where you're coming  from,
and you're dreadfully,  tragically wrong.  Like me, you're trusting men and
women instead of the God of the universe.  Please, give Jesus a chance.   I
did, when I was finally at the end of my rope, and he lifted the incredibly
heavy burden of sin off me.

Believe me,  Rowan, you don't know how good it feels to be with Jesus until
you confess Him as  Lord and Saviour.   If you  have  any questions or com-
ments,  don't hesitate to write.   Jesus loves you very much,  and so do I.
Let Him come in and bind up all your hurts.  He, and He alone can do it.

Thanks for your patience with this LONG letter, and know that we're praying
for you!

Yours in Jesus' precious name,
(signed Bill)
Bill Schnoebelen,
aka "Christopher Syn"--my name while a witch.
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