Hi all, this got erased the first time with no reason as to why, so here it goes again. I have been hitting the phones , going through the classifieds trying to find my first deal. I have a few different scripts I have tried, including a LeGrand script, a Conti script and even a good ol' Carlton Sheets script. Now being a software engineer by trade, I tend to be a "just the facts ma'am" type of person, and I am learning sales from ground zero. However, I always seem to dive into the phone call by asking "are you looking to cash out, or would you be will to L/O or owner finance?" This is where the conversation allways ends with a "NO, we want to cash out"... I feel I am doing something POORLY here Everything I have read in books, as well as other forum postings, says you should build rapport before going into the hard questions, the question is: How do I build rapport and for how long? Talking about the weather seems cheesy, and it seems like the person on the other end will find it odd that I want to have a conversation about the weather instead of asking details about the property at hand! Any specific advice for the phone/sales newbie ? Thanks in advance, Jon Profile of AustinREIProfile of AustinREI Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post AustinREI's Loan ProgramsReport this post gonza Posts: 3 Joined on: 07/19/2004 New Port Richey, FL Posted: 16:38 on 04-13-2005 forget the scripts...be yourself. Folks seem to appreciate that. Its never cheesy to speak of everyday life..its just the way it is. Rapport is most necessary to lead to subject at hand, it doesn't work every time. Be persistant! Ask the FSBO what is he looking for? Let me know how you make out! Profile of gonzaProfile of gonza Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post gonza's Loan ProgramsReport this post JohnLocke Posts: 3471 Joined on: 06/17/2002 Tampa, FL Posted: 17:35 on 04-13-2005 AustinREI, Glad to meet you. If you check the highest paid people today use a scripted presentation, so it is hard to argue with success. You need to spend some time reading some good books on sales techniques, I recommend Zig Ziglar Secrets of Closing the Sale as it is a very good one. Once you learn what to say over the phone in the proper structure then you will start getting deals, if this is how you choose to contact people. The difference of being your self over the phone with petty conversation that comes to mind and knowing what you want to say is the difference between closing a deal and shooting dice hoping snake eyes don't come up. John $Cash$ Locke _________________ "If people like you they'll listen to you, but if they trust you they'll do business with you." Profile of JohnLockeProfile of JohnLocke JohnLocke's ProductsJohnLocke's Products Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post JohnLocke's Loan ProgramsReport this post NancyChadwick Posts: 1458 Joined on: 10/02/2003 North Wales, PA Posted: 23:12 on 04-13-2005 I would add: 1. "The 5 Great Rules of Selling" by Percy Whiting (may be out of print but you can still find copies of it). 2. "How To Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie I feel that success in the real estate business is more about people than it is property. The more practice you have engaging with people (whether on the phone or face to face), the better your people skills will be. People skills being the ability to pick up clues from their body language or things that they say, your getting gut feelings about the best/most effective way to interact with them, being able to think on your feet. This takes practice and time. And with practice and time, it becomes almost second nature. Yes, you have a plan, approach or "script" of sorts, but it doesn't come off as if you're sitting there reading a script. It comes across as natural and improvised. Nancy Profile of NancyChadwickProfile of NancyChadwick NancyChadwick's ProductsNancyChadwick's Products Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post NancyChadwick's Loan ProgramsReport this post AustinREI Posts: 10 Joined on: 10/14/2004 Austin, TX Posted: 08:49 on 04-14-2005 Thanks all, I am finding so much more to investment than just what Legrand or Sheets write into their courses. I think they should be more honest in that they should describe more than just how a subject-to or L/O works (not that I was dumb enough to believe money would start fall from the trees but...)., They should go into how this is SALES , MARKETING, as well as TAX and RE LAW. lol and structure the sections on each topic appropriately to cover all needed topics for business. Question two: How is the best way to ask someone if they are willing to do a L/O or owner financing? I like they way Peter Conti uses descriptive language in his L/O book "Mr . Smith, what if we were to make you a guaranteed monthly payment and then at some point down the road we were to cash you out of the property at the full $150,000 price we talked about a moment ago. Is that something we should talk about or probably not?" What techniques do you use to prequal on the phone when many people do not a) know what a L/O is b) they automatically THINK they need all their equity at closing ? I love this site, so chocked full of knowledge, Thanks again, Jon [ Edited by AustinREI on Date 04/14/2005 ] Profile of AustinREIProfile of AustinREI Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post AustinREI's Loan ProgramsReport this post JohnLocke Posts: 3471 Joined on: 06/17/2002 Tampa, FL Posted: 10:20 on 04-14-2005 AustinREI, Sales is about numbers and proper closing techniques. Sure if you called enough people someone would reply yes, however your closing percentiles would be so out of line a person would give up because of the rejection factor long before they get their fist deal. If you are selling pens and pencils then use the phone, if you are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars in properties then it should be face to face and belly to belly so you can see the reactions of the seller. Let's take a look at the question you proposed: "Mr . Smith, what if we were to make you a guaranteed monthly payment and then at some point down the road we were to cash you out of the property at the full $150,000 price we talked about a moment ago. Is that something we should talk about or probably not?" You asked a question that can be answered "yes" or "no" thus you have reduced your closing the deal by 50% as it can go either way, now factor in that the seller does not know who you are over the phone, so reduce this by another 25%. Along with this you have put a negative in the mind of the seller by saying at the end of your question "probably not" and in the sellers mind it is "easy" for him to say "you are right probably not." Now you are down to the rejection figure of 0% I talked about as he has blocked out the first part of your question.. Knowing what to say and when to say makes the difference in being successful or having the seller think "I wish this guy was on my "do not call list". Personally I have used a presentaion for many years I could set in front of a group of people start talking and they would have no idea I was using a scripted presentation. I have trained not only my own students in using a presentation, but for major companies in the art of giving successful presentations. The closing the deal percentiles of those who use a presentation are way above the folks who wing it with questions that can be anwered yes or no. John $Cash$ Locke _________________ "If people like you they'll listen to you, but if they trust you they'll do business with you." Profile of JohnLockeProfile of JohnLocke JohnLocke's ProductsJohnLocke's Products Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post JohnLocke's Loan ProgramsReport this post AustinREI Posts: 10 Joined on: 10/14/2004 Austin, TX Posted: 15:54 on 04-14-2005 John, My question was how to prequal a person on the phone for either owner financing or L/O so I don't drive 40 minutes with no chance of buying their house. I am not sure I got a clear statement of what your answer is as to how to handle this? Are you implying that there is no way to prequal a seller on the phone, I should just get the numbers (equity, asking price etc) and set every appointment I can w/o prequalifying the seller? As it is I have a paper ad and will be getting bandit signs and mailers going in the next week. If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that these techniques are what I should focus on and NOT on calling FSBO ads from the paper because this doesn't have the odds in my favor? Am I understanding you clearly? As to your breakdown of Peter Conti's "descriptive language" example, I tend to agree, I thought the same thing when I read the "probably not" part, a negative would lead to a negative response. I think it is a bizarre way to end a sentence. What I do like is the way the sentence lays out in layman's term what a L/O entails. Thanks [ Edited by AustinREI on Date 04/14/2005 ] Profile of AustinREIProfile of AustinREI Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post AustinREI's Loan ProgramsReport this post ray_higdon Posts: 1086 Joined on: 05/19/2004 Naples, FL Posted: 19:42 on 04-14-2005 Austin, listen to John and Nancy, some great advice in there. The benefit of being able to read someone you are standing in front of will increase your chances of a successful presentation. In my opinion that Zig Ziglar book John mentioned is the best book on sales ever written. I do like Carnegie and anything by Tom Hopkins too. _________________ Ray Higdon SWFLA Investments Profile of ray_higdonProfile of ray_higdon Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post ray_higdon's Group ray_higdon's Group ray_higdon's Loan ProgramsReport this post DougON Posts: 27 Joined on: 08/13/2003 Posted: 10:15 on 04-27-2005 Austin, calling ads is the most reliable source of deals I've found, and I've tried all the common types of marketing (classified ads, display ads, signs, flyers, letters, postcards, business cards etc.) nothing comes close to calling. However, I break with what's been recommended above. I find that asking yes or no questions saves an enormous amount of time that would otherwise be wasted. I use the phone as a sorting tool rather than a selling tool. Years ago I used to ask all the simple questions and try to "build rapport" before asking if they want to L/O. It never worked. Now I START by asking if they want to L/O, that's the very first question out of my mouth. 50% say no, 50% say yes or tell me more. To the "tell me more" crowd I explain that it's like leasing a car, only with houses. Most want some specific questions answered like: "Will the T/B damage my house?" To which I've developed some great replies based on my years of real world experience with L/Os. When it's all said and done I'm down to about 6% of the ads and they all: 1. Want to L/O 2. Have agreed to terms 3. Have set up an appointment The other 94% of the ads are sorted out in 30 seconds - 3 minutes. Sure, I have a 94% rejection rate, but thats the whole point, I want the curious ones to be removed through the sorting process. I don't want to spend 2 hours driving there and meeting with them only to find out they need $50,000 cash to start a business and they need to sell their house for $50,000 more than it's worth to get it. Just think... 3 minutes vs. 2 hours. The success rate would have to be 40 times higher for face to face presentations to compete with making the deal over the phone. By my calculations that's 240%. So unless you can get an L/O from every FSBO just by meeting with them face to face, then you might as well make the deal over the phone. Profile of DougONProfile of DougON Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post DougON's Loan ProgramsReport this post brickboo Posts: 3 Joined on: 04/26/2005 Fruita, CO Posted: 14:18 on 04-27-2005 DougOn's post makes sense. His advice is similar to the advice in the Peter Conti book about Foreclosure investing. Mostly it talks about very motivated sellers. If they aren't extremely motivated you're wasting your time offering a L/O. Perhaps in your pre-qualify phone conversation you should add "What if we could give you some cash up front" along with the offer to take over their payments and purchase at a later date. That I think would be more appealing. Don’t forget this is a what if suggestion. You don’t make offers on the phone. On the phone, you separate the highly motivated from the not so motivated seller who is not in distress. Such as: People facing divorce, bankruptcy, sick and tired landlords, people who inherited something they don’t want etc. The actual negotiating and making an offer is done in person as presented very well in the Peter Conti books. His negotiating method is by far the most intelligent and logical I’ve found after reading at least 5 books and viewing the older Carleton Sheets VHS that I’ve watch twice for free from the local library. I also have the Peter Conti book on foreclosure investing free from the local library. The library in my small town is full of free real estate investing books. The negative questions like “ What if I would so on and so forth ” along with “but that probably won’t work for you” is great with added suggestions presented subtly in his book such as, “but you’d probably prefer to keep renting the place yourself”, or “maybe it would be better for you to list with a broker,“ or “it probably really doesn’t matter if you have to make two payments when your new house is ready to move in?” You actually get them to be on your side. They may say, "Oh no we don't want to list with a broker," or "oh no we don't want to make two payments," or "oh no we are tired of the tenants" etc. After all of this is said I’m still skeptical about the whole process. In the investing in foreclosures book by Peter Conti, the first recommendation for advertising is the classified “I buy houses” ad.. Then you need a voice mail box with a 24 hour message. One for motivated sellers who leave their phone number with info about the property. Then you need another voice mail for the “Rent To Own Buyers.” The message asks how much they can pay a month, how much they can put down and so on. Then of course they call the qualified people and set up appointments. This is a real sophisticated system and seems like it is sure to work. If you can afford the $hundreds need for the classified ad. The voice mail is cheap, that is until the voice mail people find out how much the local newspapers are charging for the classified ads! All of this sounds so easy and makes you think you’ll get rich real quick and easy. If this is true please straighten up this problem I have with all of this. I live across the Rocky Mountains in Grand Junction Colorado from Peter Conti’s headquarters in the Denver area, where just this past weekend he had a three-day seminar. I subscribe to the Denver Post. There are a few “I buy houses” ads. One has an “800” number. I called it expecting the Peter Conti message that I read somewhere in his book. It definitely was not his script. There were only a few such ads in the Denver post. All but that one “800” number were local phone numbers. Maybe about 6 ads all total. Now just think! Denver is Peter Conti’s backyard. There’s only 6 or 7 “I buy houses” ads in the Denver Post. The Denver post is a very large newspaper! Where are all the ads from his thousands of students and most importantly, where is his ad that he makes millions from investing in Real Estate? I don’t think Peter Conti has an ad in the Denver Post to buy property. If I’m correct, why is he telling me that this is the best way to advertise? Why is he telling me if I do this, I can make lots of money, if he isn’t doing it? You’d think with his headquarters near the city of Denver, maybe within 15 miles or so, they’d be dozens of ads in the classified as he suggest. I don’t know about you, but this looks mighty fishy to me. Do you think he's making all of his money investing in Real Estate or perhaps talking about investing in Real Estate in his books, Cds and such? I don't sell anything but brickwork. I'm like you trying to find an easier way. If you can help me, please do at **Please See My Profile** Profile of brickbooProfile of brickboo Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post brickboo's Loan ProgramsReport this post AustinREI Posts: 10 Joined on: 10/14/2004 Austin, TX Posted: 12:23 on 04-28-2005 Thanks DougOn and Brickboo, I agree with you both. It seems very unproductive, which was my point above, to make an appointment with an _unqualified_ lead. That would waste a couple of hours of my time and the seller's time, leading to frustration for both of us! DougOn - I agree with your method, if you have the mindset of "sorting", than a "no" is not a rejection, it is just a sorted lead. A 6% success rate is pretty darn good I'll take it! On top of that, if you make a call and someone says "tell me more" to a L/O, then they are sounding more motivated then the norm. Now how many calls do you make where you reach either 1) another investor or 2) a realtor, and how do you handle these calls? It seems like many ads are one of these two types, and agents don't always id themselves in an ad. Brickboo- I grew up in Littleton (now Centennial), CO. I haven't been back much in the last 4 years. With the prices in CO, I'm sure that is a hot market for pre-foreclosures, especially in Douglas County. When I do go back, I wonder everytime I see new mansions pop up in south Denver, highland's ranch etc...how do people afford these? Chances are they are financed to the hilt and if they lose their executive position, they are $crewed. As to Conti not having an ad in the post, I do think that is odd, but I'll bet he does most of his RE business now via his mentorship students. They bring him deals so he doesn't have to find them! I agree with the prices of RE ads...I do Sunday only in the austin-american statesman, and it is $140/ month! I have gotten 1 call this month that did not turn into a deal. But if you think that one deal can pay for an ad many many times over, it does make sense to keep it there. What I do like about Conti's approach is how he breaks things down into layman's terms. It's kind of like when I have to explain a piece of software to non-technical managment. Give them too technical a description, and they get either fearful, or their eyes glaze over. I also like how Conti's method leads the seller and buyer into building need and motivation for themselves. You can lead a horse to water.... Profile of AustinREIProfile of AustinREI Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post AustinREI's Loan ProgramsReport this post DougON Posts: 27 Joined on: 08/13/2003 Posted: 16:09 on 04-28-2005 Austin, I agree. I've just started sending info in the mail to everyone who says "tell me more" but didn't sign up right away. Converting just a small number of those would improve the percentages quite a bit. Realtors always identify themselves in the ad so I don't call them. I don't think I've ever talked to an investor FSBO either. Profile of DougONProfile of DougON Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post DougON's Loan ProgramsReport this post ray_higdon Posts: 1086 Joined on: 05/19/2004 Naples, FL Posted: 16:29 on 04-28-2005 I agree with DougON as well. The existence of an ad shouldn't mandate you going to their house, now, I believe if the people CALL YOU, it is more than likely worth a trip as they are at least somewhat motivated as they CALLED YOU. I don't believe anyone said to go visit each property that has an ad in the paper, that would certainly be crazy. _________________ Ray Higdon SWFLA Investments Profile of ray_higdonProfile of ray_higdon Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post ray_higdon's Group ray_higdon's Group ray_higdon's Loan ProgramsReport this post bigdredd Posts: 114 Joined on: 11/09/2002 Hempstead, NY Posted: 16:47 on 04-28-2005 If I were you I would read Joe Kaisers ebook on negotiating http://www.****This URL Not allowed****.com/authors/kaiser/swatteamleader.pdf Profile of bigdreddProfile of bigdredd Edit/Delete PostEdit/Delete Post Quote this PostQuote this Post bigdredd's Group bigdredd's Group bigdredd's Loan ProgramsReport this post edmeyer Posts: 824 Joined on: 09/18/2003 Morgan Hill, CA Posted: 18:08 on 04-28-2005 Here is my two cents worth to add to the mix of the good responses you have received so far. This is a bit different from your other responses. I do not do sales for a living, but at one time I was doing consulting and had the need to sell my services. I hired a very interesting sales consultant who said that there are two necessary ingredients for a sale to take place. 1) sufficient discontent 2) having a specific means for removing the discontent Many of the qualifying questions were constructed (by me) to probe the discontent. In the case of RE purchases, the goal is to learn as much as possible about motivation to sell. You certainly want to know why the seller wants to sell. If you think asking directly is too uncomfortable you can soften it with a something like "Your house seems like a great house, why would you want to sell it?" Then you can follow up with something like "Tell me what some of your concerns are about selling your house?" You can then dig deeper with "What makes _____ a concern for you? After you have listened intently and gathered some info, then it is time to paraphrase it back. "Let me see if I understand you correctly. You need to move to East Sheboygan Falls to help look after your ailing mother. You are anxious about having open house because someone's kid might scratch your antique French dining table and you are very uncomfortable about real estate forms. Is that about right?" The seller will either indicate that you are spot on or will give mild corrections to your interpretations. At this point you try a conditional close. "If we come to an agreement soon you won't need to have an open house and your lovely table will be safe. Furthermore, I am pretty good with the paperwork. So with this in mind and if I can help you close quickly, would you be willing to do business with me?" The paraphrasing will help you greatly with rapport since you are exhibiting an understand about seller's concerns. All of this can be done over the phone and you can gather enough info to decide whether to make an appointment to see the house and close. One last item. If you ask what a seller wants from the sale, they will almost always say cash. No one will tell you they want to do a five year lease option with some seller financing. When they say cash, you ask, "If you had cash, what would you do with it?". One time someone told me he wanted to move in to a mobile home park to be near his wife's sister. Guess what I offered for a down payment? I hope this is of some help. Good luck to you, Ed