thenonsquirrel (5:43:44 PM): and my fortune cookie is on crack
MagicRoar (5:44:38 PM): what does it say?
thenonsquirrel (5:45:23 PM): "your love life will be happy and harmonious"
MagicRoar (5:45:56 PM): impossible
MagicRoar (5:46:05 PM): it wouldn't be a love life then
thenonsquirrel (5:46:14 PM): well
thenonsquirrel (5:46:16 PM): I dunno about that
MagicRoar (5:46:19 PM): it'd just be finding someone you got along w/ reasonably well to screw
MagicRoar (5:46:19 PM): yes
thenonsquirrel (5:46:20 PM): but it is impossible
thenonsquirrel (5:46:54 PM): it would still be "a" love life, just not a good one
MagicRoar (5:47:18 PM): not if you define love as "true love" or "being madly in love"
thenonsquirrel (5:47:49 PM): they aren't the same
thenonsquirrel (5:48:12 PM): a life w/out anything in it is still a life
thenonsquirrel (5:48:18 PM): sort of
MagicRoar (5:48:50 PM): but love w/o passion is merely affection
thenonsquirrel (5:49:05 PM): yeah
thenonsquirrel (5:49:08 PM): but what I mean is
thenonsquirrel (5:49:45 PM): a love life exists no matter what your actual situation is, unless you never see anyone at all
MagicRoar (5:50:33 PM): oh
MagicRoar (5:50:34 PM): i see
MagicRoar (5:50:44 PM): so you can have a love life w/o ever being in love
MagicRoar (5:50:46 PM): in any form
MagicRoar (5:50:48 PM): hm
MagicRoar (5:50:58 PM): it says happy and harmonious, htough
MagicRoar (5:51:00 PM): they contradict
thenonsquirrel (5:51:08 PM): that doesn't contradict
MagicRoar (5:51:47 PM): either you're happy w/ someone you don't love, you're happy w/ someone you love passionatly and fight w/ them, or you're miserable, but harmonious, alone
MagicRoar (5:52:07 PM): but eventually, even if you had a substantial affection for a person, you'd feel deprived
MagicRoar (5:52:12 PM): so even that couldn't be happy
thenonsquirrel (5:52:32 PM): I don't see why you have to fight w/someone you love
MagicRoar (5:53:02 PM): b/c stupidity is a fundamental aspect of human nature
MagicRoar (5:53:03 PM): at times
MagicRoar (5:53:07 PM): so if you love them
MagicRoar (5:53:13 PM): you have to get pissed when they do stupid things
thenonsquirrel (5:53:36 PM): no you don't
thenonsquirrel (5:54:37 PM): or
MagicRoar (5:54:39 PM): how can you love a person and yet stand back and watch them a. make themselves miserable, b. make you miserable, or c. fuck up their life - depending on what form their stupidity takes?
thenonsquirrel (5:54:50 PM): you could just say, I am pissed
thenonsquirrel (5:54:54 PM): w/out fighting
thenonsquirrel (5:55:16 PM): wouldn't that be much simpler
MagicRoar (5:56:19 PM): if you marry such a pushover that he instantly admits stupidity and bows to your superior judgement then i will kick you
thenonsquirrel (5:56:49 PM): how about
thenonsquirrel (5:57:06 PM): marrying someone who can logically confront a point of disagreement
thenonsquirrel (5:57:13 PM): have a civilized discussion
MagicRoar (5:57:16 PM): see
MagicRoar (5:57:19 PM): that's just it
thenonsquirrel (5:57:23 PM): ...
MagicRoar (5:57:30 PM): either he's boring as hell b/c he has no emotions
MagicRoar (5:58:13 PM): or there's a period of time where he knows he's wrong but won't admit it
MagicRoar (5:58:14 PM): i mean
MagicRoar (5:58:17 PM): let's face it
MagicRoar (5:58:24 PM): if we're emotionally invested in a decision
MagicRoar (5:59:12 PM): which, if it's one that it's possible to be stupid abt and you're not then you're just a freak of nature
MagicRoar (5:59:27 PM): then we don't want to be wrong
MagicRoar (5:59:42 PM): and it takes awhile to be able to accept our fundamental stupidity
MagicRoar (5:59:44 PM): of course
MagicRoar (6:00:09 PM): there is two other options for someone who accepts guilt immediately
MagicRoar (6:00:21 PM): 1. they're a lying bastard and just telling you what you want to hear
MagicRoar (6:00:33 PM): 2. they don't care that they're stupid
MagicRoar (6:01:10 PM): needless to say, those are two much greater sins than stubbornness
thenonsquirrel (6:01:22 PM): I don't expect anyone to immediately believe that I'm right
thenonsquirrel (6:01:33 PM): I don't want them to
MagicRoar (6:01:44 PM): but that's my point
thenonsquirrel (6:01:49 PM): I want someone who's objective enough to evaluate themselves honestly
MagicRoar (6:01:54 PM): right
thenonsquirrel (6:01:56 PM): and I don't think that's impossible to find
MagicRoar (6:02:00 PM): no one can do that immediately
MagicRoar (6:02:16 PM): b/c ususally they know you're right pretty dang quickly
MagicRoar (6:02:41 PM): the issue is whether you're able to not make any remarks or show any displeasure immediately
thenonsquirrel (6:02:41 PM): they don't have to immediately
thenonsquirrel (6:02:54 PM): but there still doesn't have to be a fight
MagicRoar (6:03:16 PM): well
MagicRoar (6:03:28 PM): look at your possible reactions to finding out abt a stupid action
MagicRoar (6:03:38 PM): 1. you could gape in bewilderment
MagicRoar (6:03:54 PM): 2. you could scornfully refuse to acknowledge the action
MagicRoar (6:04:02 PM): 3. you could frown reprovingly
MagicRoar (6:04:09 PM): 4. you could throw a hissy fit
thenonsquirrel (6:04:25 PM): you mean mine, or someone else's
MagicRoar (6:04:28 PM): 5. you could calmly and rationally point out its fundamental idiocy
MagicRoar (6:04:32 PM): anyone's
MagicRoar (6:04:34 PM): or
MagicRoar (6:04:47 PM): you could be a lying creep and just tell them you agree w/ them
thenonsquirrel (6:04:54 PM): so what's wrong w/5
MagicRoar (6:05:18 PM): that's the one i was assuming in all my previous argumentation
MagicRoar (6:05:21 PM): if you do that
MagicRoar (6:05:43 PM): then you basically justify their own subconscious realization of their stupidity
MagicRoar (6:05:53 PM): YOU are the one who forces them to acknowledge it
MagicRoar (6:06:05 PM): consequently, they resent you
MagicRoar (6:06:09 PM): for at least a little while
MagicRoar (6:06:41 PM): i'm not saying fighting would be constant
thenonsquirrel (6:06:43 PM): unless you love each other enough to trust that it isn't going to change how you see them overall
MagicRoar (6:06:43 PM): or even regular
MagicRoar (6:07:23 PM): it's not a matter of how you see each other
MagicRoar (6:07:32 PM): it's a matter of how they see themselves
thenonsquirrel (6:07:56 PM): if it were just that
MagicRoar (6:08:00 PM): the one thing that you'd resent more than someone forcing you to see the bad in someone you love is someone forcing you to see a fundamental problem in yourself
MagicRoar (6:08:17 PM): and it seems, innitially, that it's a fundamental stupidity
thenonsquirrel (6:08:21 PM): no
thenonsquirrel (6:08:32 PM): that isn'
thenonsquirrel (6:08:33 PM): t
MagicRoar (6:08:38 PM): ?
thenonsquirrel (6:08:53 PM): something I'd resent more
MagicRoar (6:09:32 PM): then you're taking it as a personal offense
MagicRoar (6:09:39 PM): the pointing out the flaws in loved ones, that is
thenonsquirrel (6:10:13 PM): not that, either
MagicRoar (6:10:19 PM): it reflects on your blindness towards it, or your immorality in permitting them to do such things, or in being able to care abt them despite flaws
MagicRoar (6:10:20 PM): oh?
thenonsquirrel (6:11:15 PM): like when my mom was criticizing you
MagicRoar (6:11:20 PM): /
MagicRoar (6:11:22 PM): ?
thenonsquirrel (6:11:28 PM): I resented it b/c she was essentially forcing me to choose a side
MagicRoar (6:12:04 PM): sstill an impact on you
thenonsquirrel (6:12:14 PM): yeah
thenonsquirrel (6:12:59 PM): that doesn't make me blind or immoral though...
thenonsquirrel (6:13:42 PM): or that I took the criticism itself as a personal offense
MagicRoar (6:14:53 PM): hm
MagicRoar (6:14:54 PM): well
MagicRoar (6:15:00 PM): did you agree w/ anything she said?
MagicRoar (6:15:07 PM): or i guess agree w/ it's importance?
thenonsquirrel (6:15:21 PM): no
MagicRoar (6:15:24 PM): in that case
MagicRoar (6:15:29 PM): you weren't discovering my flaws
MagicRoar (6:15:36 PM): or being force to acknowledge them
MagicRoar (6:15:48 PM): you were merely being forced to regard traits as faults
thenonsquirrel (6:15:56 PM): well
MagicRoar (6:15:59 PM): or give faults greater importance than you felt they needed
MagicRoar (6:16:03 PM): therefore it doesn't apply
thenonsquirrel (6:16:12 PM): forced to acknowledge in that I had to think over the ones you do have
thenonsquirrel (6:16:33 PM): but that still wouldn't have been it
MagicRoar (6:16:47 PM): yeah
thenonsquirrel (6:19:02 PM): but having her make any valid point about you
thenonsquirrel (6:19:12 PM): wouldn't have offended me personally
MagicRoar (6:20:06 PM): would it effect you at all?
thenonsquirrel (6:21:03 PM): if all she did was point it out
thenonsquirrel (6:21:09 PM): so that I was aware of its existence
thenonsquirrel (6:21:23 PM): I'd think it over
thenonsquirrel (6:21:39 PM): agree w/what I felt was true
thenonsquirrel (6:21:46 PM): flirt w/the idea of pointing it out to you
thenonsquirrel (6:22:01 PM): and go on as before
MagicRoar (6:22:25 PM): but the initial point was that a realization abt someone else doesn't hurt you as much as a realization abt yourself
thenonsquirrel (6:23:27 PM): no
thenonsquirrel (6:23:32 PM): whether it would cause resentment
thenonsquirrel (6:23:42 PM): and a realization about myself wouldn't cause resentment
thenonsquirrel (6:23:55 PM): and one about someone else wouldn't either, if done properly
thenonsquirrel (6:24:05 PM): well
thenonsquirrel (6:24:24 PM): one about myself would if I felt that it damned me in the eyes of the other person
MagicRoar (6:25:40 PM): if someone forced you to see that your perspective on one issue that was important to you had been wrong for your entire life, wouldn't your first reaction be anger at them for being right?
MagicRoar (6:25:51 PM): even if, 3 minutes later, you agreed w/ them?
thenonsquirrel (6:26:08 PM): no, it'd be self-hate
MagicRoar (6:26:39 PM): you need to have a little more pride in yourself
thenonsquirrel (6:27:14 PM): not if it results in hating other people for being honest
MagicRoar (6:27:21 PM): it's momentary
MagicRoar (6:27:55 PM): anger is in selfdefense
thenonsquirrel (6:29:20 PM): oh well
MagicRoar (6:30:50 PM): ?
thenonsquirrel (6:31:09 PM): I'll go buy some when it's on sale
MagicRoar (6:31:12 PM): lol
MagicRoar (6:31:40 PM): i'm trying to decide if you really don't have any
MagicRoar (6:31:55 PM): or if you're so used to subjugating it that you've forgotten how to indulge it
MagicRoar (6:32:00 PM): i mean
MagicRoar (6:32:08 PM): you ARE arguing w/ me
MagicRoar (6:32:16 PM): so that means you must have some belief that you're right
thenonsquirrel (6:32:26 PM): yes
thenonsquirrel (6:32:32 PM): of course I have some
MagicRoar (6:32:39 PM): and the abilty to defend an opinion is sort of dependent on the knowledge that your ideas matter
thenonsquirrel (6:32:43 PM): it just tends to collapse when stepped on too hard
thenonsquirrel (6:33:01 PM): if I thought that you'd hate me for arguing the point, I'd start to panic
MagicRoar (6:33:11 PM): so the question is if it's like that dang physics bridge
MagicRoar (6:33:15 PM): where it's really dense
MagicRoar (6:33:22 PM): but it gives really easily
thenonsquirrel (6:33:33 PM): just don't mess w/me during lunch
MagicRoar (6:33:50 PM): so you still end up w/ a pile of rubble protecting you, but you sure feel shitty
MagicRoar (6:33:51 PM): ?
thenonsquirrel (6:34:07 PM): something like that, I guess
MagicRoar (6:34:32 PM): the question mark was in reference to the lunch comment
MagicRoar (6:34:37 PM): i actually wasn't done w/ the or
thenonsquirrel (6:34:52 PM): oh
thenonsquirrel (6:34:55 PM): go on then
thenonsquirrel (6:35:03 PM): the physics bridge
thenonsquirrel (6:35:07 PM): lunch
thenonsquirrel (6:35:09 PM): yeah
MagicRoar (6:35:44 PM): which would be something more flimsy that really offered no protection at all
MagicRoar (6:35:56 PM): like noodle spikes
MagicRoar (6:36:02 PM): that shattered to dust
MagicRoar (6:36:18 PM): but not enough to cover the entirety of the surface they were supposed to protect
thenonsquirrel (6:36:56 PM): more like the first
MagicRoar (6:37:12 PM): well
MagicRoar (6:37:15 PM): that's progress
MagicRoar (6:37:44 PM): maybe you should work on increasing the amount of rubble rather than rebuilding hte brige each time
thenonsquirrel (6:38:00 PM): but then you're building around the same innate flaw
MagicRoar (6:38:08 PM): not at all
MagicRoar (6:38:12 PM): you're recycling
MagicRoar (6:38:19 PM): and improving your design in the process
MagicRoar (6:38:21 PM): think abt it
MagicRoar (6:38:27 PM): when they're moving teh space shuttle
MagicRoar (6:38:33 PM): tehy always drive on gravel roads
MagicRoar (6:38:50 PM): b/c any other kind would shatter, where gravell only shifts slightly
MagicRoar (6:38:53 PM): but still holds
thenonsquirrel (6:39:13 PM): maybe I just shouldn't be using noodles
MagicRoar (6:39:52 PM): so you're taking your initial mistake - depending on a flimsy substance - and using the flimsy stubstance in teh way that maximizes it's strength
MagicRoar (6:40:02 PM): but other things would be more expensive
MagicRoar (6:40:04 PM): and harder to find
MagicRoar (6:40:06 PM): besides
MagicRoar (6:40:26 PM): a pile of noodle crumbs would be quite protective
MagicRoar (6:40:37 PM): see
MagicRoar (6:40:40 PM): if you used iron
MagicRoar (6:40:49 PM): when it collapsed it'd be even more of a blow
MagicRoar (6:41:06 PM): since a. you thought it was invincible and b. rebuilding it would be hell
thenonsquirrel (6:43:07 PM): how about...I dunno
thenonsquirrel (6:43:13 PM): rubber
MagicRoar (6:43:23 PM):
MagicRoar (6:44:08 PM): dyou want to know what image that somehow evoked in my mind?
thenonsquirrel (6:44:20 PM): um...do I?
thenonsquirrel (6:44:22 PM): go ahead
MagicRoar (6:44:57 PM): a condom, that's in it's packaged state - flat - that someone hits and falls into, causing it to stretch to it's full length and jiggle somewhat
thenonsquirrel (6:45:45 PM): there is just nothing to say to that
MagicRoar (6:46:09 PM): i know
MagicRoar (6:46:32 PM): blame it on my dang oxford german dictionary
MagicRoar (6:46:36 PM): for having british slang
thenonsquirrel (6:47:43 PM): ah
thenonsquirrel (6:47:58 PM): I first heard it from imelda...
MagicRoar (6:48:19 PM): for what reason?
thenonsquirrel (6:48:54 PM): she was making comments on my clicky eraser
MagicRoar (6:49:22 PM):
MagicRoar (6:49:23 PM): oh
MagicRoar (6:49:27 PM): maybe i see it