From: "Carl E. Picciotto" <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 96 17:58:40 "PST
Subject: Trunk lid cable
*******************************
I found that article containing the bit about opening the trunk lid
on an AR Spider, in the April 1994 issue of Overheard Cams.
*******************************
So anyway, I got my new cable, and the first thing I noticed was that
the metal-cap ends of the cable sheath are sharp, and seem designed to cut
into and break the cable. Anyone notice this? I'm thinking of gluing nylon
washers or something similar to prevent abrasion.
Thanks for the many suggestions (which included: remove spring from latch
to reduce cable strain; add a cable in parallel; make a tool for opening
the latch from the little hole at the bottom of the trunk (probably handy
for breaking into other people's Spiders, I imagine!); tie a nylon cable
to the latch and thread it through the rubber-stopped hole in the
spare-tire well),
Carl.
- --
Carl Picciotto
From: [email protected] (Simon Favre)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 10:19:29 PST
Subject: Re: GTV Cleanliness
Steve Schaeffer scribbled:
>Hey All,
>As I progress on my '67 GTV's restoration, the subject of how to clean
>up the metal and aluminum pieces in the engine bay arises.
>Particularly, short of nickel plating, what's a good way to get the
>power brake booster up to snuff? Same goes for all the firewall hole
>inserts. Would a light sanding remove the rust? Would I be removing a
>protective oxidation layer if I did. How should I 'seal' the surface
>once cleaned. Any recommended paints? The header is going to Jet
>Hot. The fuse box needs cleaning, naturally. Will I damage it by
>taking hot soap/water and toothbrush to it?
No advice on the booster. I thought they were Cadmium plated new. This
would be difficult to duplicate without replating. I have seen some
very nice polished ones. Which firewall hole inserts are you talking
about? If they are metal, they were probably Cad plated too. Rubber can
be replaced. There are some very tough paints available. POR-15 will
seal any metal surface and stand up to all sorts of abuse (except UV).
You can get POR-15 in black, silver, and I think white. Check any issue
of Hemmings for an assortment of POR-15 ads. If you're not going to
pull the fusebox out of the car, disconnect the battery before cleaning
it, rinse with lots of clean water, and blow it out with compressed
air. A hair dryer may also help. Give ot plenty of drying time before
applying any juice. An Ohm-meter check with the fuses out might help.
Here's another little tip: for any of the metal pieces that bolt
directly to painted surfaces, you can prevent paint cracking by
painting the backside of the metal with Plasti-Dip. This is the stuff
you dip tool handles in. Properly thinned, you can paint this stuff on
things that might bite into the paint. The little rectangular side
marker lights in front on 67 GTV's are notorious for doing this. The
only problem with doing this is that it might insulate the housing too
well, and prevent getting a good electrical ground. This can be solved
with extra ground wires. I put extra ground wires on all the exterior
lighting assemblies.
The dashpad can be completely recovered on top. I used some tough
Naugahyde I got from a big yard goods store. Pull the old covering off,
and try to use a "virgin" piece from underneath for matching it up. Cut
the new piece larger than you need and trim later. The new piece can be
stapled onto the plastic bottom of the pad. If the foam is rotted
underneath, you can put a thin layer of new foam on it. Be careful.
There is a layer of hard foam that is injection molded and is not easy
to replace. There is a soft layer on top of that can be peeled off and
replaced. When stapling the new covering on, I seem to remember
starting at the middle and working my way up both sides toward the
ends, stretching the vinyl as I went. It should be stretched a little,
but not too much, or it might rip at the staples, or crack later. I got
pretty good results. Good luck with it.
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dana Loomis <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:08:07 -0400
Subject: Curing door sag
The doors on my '72 (Bertone) GTV are sagging, as they all seem to do. It
looks as though the weight-bearing surfaces of the lower hinge are eroding,
letting the trainling edge of the door drop under its own weight. Do the
folks who have restored GTVs have a good way to cure this? Just curious.
Thanks -- Dana Loomis
------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 16:47:56 -0500
Subject: 1750 doors
I have a 69 1750 GTV. First of all the plastic should be attached to the
inside face of the door. Just run a bead of caulk around the whole
perimeter and glue the plastic to the metal. The inside door panel then
attaches over that. Theoreticaly, water should not touch the inside
cardboard panel. Water that gets in by sliding down the glass should bounce
off this plastic roll down and out the drains in the bottom of the door.
Do you have the window wipes in place to minimize what water does get in the
door? Also, there is a rear channel cap at the top rear of the door to seal
the very end. Both pieces a readily available, the window wipes from several
sources and the channel caps from Matt Jones.
Let me know how you do.
Tony Brucia
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:54:59 -0500
Subject: Re: door rain sheet
In a message dated 96-03-31 08:53:57 EST, you write:
Door Panel Plastic water sheet
> Or is the sheet supposed to go
>inside the door (with panel removed), curved leftwards to direct water
>flow toward the inside door-skin and out the drain holes. This makes
>sense but will be much more difficult to do. Yes
Replacing the panels on my Spider I too replaced the plastic sheeting. The
sheeting was on the inside of the door. Infact it was folded over the top
edge of the door just under the chrome stripping that has the rubber against
the window. The material I used you can get at most uphostery shops, its
much better than a plain piece of plastic.
------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Robert A Brady)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 07:06:46 -0500
Subject: door panels
In the last AD someone asked about putting plastic behind the inner door
panel to prevent warping. My '73 GTV, with original door panels (as far as I
can tell anyway) had a sheet of plastic behind the panel, just as you
described. My '74 had the panels replaced, and suffers from the same problem
you described, that is, water runs through the door, and inside the car. As
far as I can tell, it seems like the problem lies in the "fuzzies" at the top
of the door. Mine are worn, which allow water to run down the window, and
into the door. I suspect that new ones would prevent this problem. Anyone
know were to get new ones?
- -bob
'73 GTV (possible vintage racer??? winter beater???)
'74 GTV (daily driver)
------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (gary& nancy valant)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:32:55 -0600
Subject: warped door panels
The best stuff to use as a backing material in the door panel is plastic. It
will last forever and is not affected by water.
My son used Lexan when redoing his Giulia Super , and it worked very well ,
but a tad expensive. You need a plastic that can be stapled to , not
plexiglass, that will shatter. Check around some of the plastic supply hoses
near you, I am sure they can suggest something that will work , but be cheaper.
------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 20:52:23 -0400
Subject: Eastwood
in icd03:103 and ad02:158 danp suggests the Eastwood catalog as a source for
cosmetic renewal of cad-plated brake boosters, but says he don't actually
have one of these catalogs, but is sure that *someone* out there has one
laying around.
For an Eastwood catalog or to place an order, call 1-800-345-1178. From other
countries, (610)-640-1450. Fax, home and abroad, (610)-644-0560. Tech
service, 1-800-227-8321. The specific _cad-look_ aerosol is their part
#1903Z, a 12 oz (or Aus if you insist) aerosol for $us8.95. The catalog is
indeed useful, for the cosmetics of aging Alfas (and other cars) it is
roughly the equivalent of what J.C. Whitney was for keep-it-running parts
forty years ago, a remarkably extensive source for D-I-Y metal/paint/interior
maintenance and restoration tools and materials.
John
------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 18:57:36 -0400
Subject: gtv Labels
I saw your post in the Alfa Digest re underhood labels. I too, have a '69
GTV and checked under the hood. There are 3 labels, 1 describes reccommended
lubricants, 1 has tune up data, and the third (red) labels is a warning to
use Lodge spark plugs. I know I bought a spare "tune up" label from Alfa
Ricambi a few years back and they might have all 3. They had someone
reproducing them for them. If you are at a dead end and need it, I could let
you have it.
Re the label under the trunk lid.. that was the label which gives the body
color and color code. Don't know how you would get ahold of 1 of those. Try
Alfa Ricambi or Centerline for the firewall plaque.
E mail me directly if you have any more ? or if I can be of further
assistance.
Regds,
Tony Brucia
------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Simon Favre )
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 23:14:54 -0700
Subject: Re: Headliners Redux
As a comment on Robert Brady's reply to Peter Lundquist's headliner
query, I would say unless you have someone who is real good at sewing
(Robert does), then let the upholstery shop do it. If you rip the old
one to shreds getting it out, they will not be able to make a good
replacement. If you're going to have an upholstery shop put in the new
one, leave the old one in place for them to remove. If you take
everything out BUT the headliner, they should still quote you a lower
price than just driving in and saying, "Here, fix it." If you want it
to look real nice, let the upholstery shop do what they're good at.
Just get all the other stuff out of their way so they spend less of
their time (and your money) doing what they are not so good at.
-----------------------------
From: [email protected] (Robert A Brady)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 07:11:06 -0500
Subject: Jan's GTV resto questions
Jan, I spent the last year restoring a '73 GTV that I bought in Pennsylvania.
It looked like swiss cheese before I started....it still needs some
assembly, but the body is essentially finished....
Some comments about your questions....
1. re: patch panels for windshield area: I made my own. I had rust at the
base of each side of the windshield, as well as at the top. Fabricating new
pieces for these areas was surprisingly easy, and they came out looking very
nice. By the way, this was my first experience with metal fabrication and
welding. My $0.02: Buy a wire-feed/Mig welder, some 20 ga. sheet metal,
some body hammers, and try it yourself....be careful not to warp the
surrounding sheet metal. (FYI, I never bought the MiG conversion for my
welder, I did it all with flux core wire.... you can too.
2. re: patch panels for the "snoot": Again, make your own (do you have rust
here, or dents?). Alternatively, I know an AROC member in Houston Texas who
has a NOS snoot for a GTV. He will sell it, but it may not be cheep.
Another possibility is to have one cut from a parts car. Again, I know of
some in Houston that may be good candidates. Finally, a couple of years ago,
I was talking to Peter D'Amico, in Vineland NJ who said he had "acres" of
parts alfas....he may be another possibility. Whoops, Finally again, there is
a guy in Canada who makes patch panels for alfas. He advertises in Hemmings,
and I have is phone number, if you're interested. On the down side, I know a
guy who was waiting for MONTHS for him to get his panels from this
fabricator. As far as I know, he never received them.
3. re: windshield removal: You CAN remove your windshield without breaking
it.... I did it. It requires much patience, a sharp knife, and maybe a piece
of piano wire. If you don't have to weld too close to the windshield, I
recommend NOT removing it. You can repaint the car nicely by just removing
the trim, and masking the glass. As far as the other glass is concerned, I'd
recommend removing the rear window (I just cut the old seal....new ones are
about $80.00!), the door glass (optional....not as simple as it seems), and
definately, the rear side glass. After glass removal, you may be surprised
by many "hidden" rot spots..... I certainly was..... so mentally prepare
yourself.
4. re: rear bumper: Again, I know of one in Houston.... not too familiar
with PA/NJ area supplies....yet. Alternatively, since it's stainless, you
could bang out the dents and buff it....some patience and a nylon mallet are
required. ( I will be attempting this myself soon.)
Finally, I don't know what equipment you have, but the best advice I received
before starting my restoration was to buy a MiG welder. I purchased a
Lincoln Weld Pac 100 from Home Depot for $280..... It was one of the best
investments I've ever made. The MiG conversion will cost you about $80.00,
and you'll have to rent/buy a Ar/CO2 cylinder. The other "best" tool I've
ever purchased was my angle grinder. This is an essential tool for metal
work....
- - good luck. Doing it yourself is really satisfying.... although it is time
consuming. Let me know how it goes.
I hope I helped.
- -bob
'73 and '74 GTVs
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (gary& nancy valant)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 08:13:19 -0500
Subject: two replies
Mark-- Insted of patching the problem fron the outside, fix the problem from
the inside. Check around your local radiator repair shops. Some of them
will clean out you tank and coat it with a rubbery stuff that is supposed to
last forever. This also seals in any rust that might come loose and clog
filters. The price is ok compared to finding a new tank.
------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Robert A Brady)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 06:57:03 -0400
Subject: rocker panels
In ad 160 someone asked about diy rocker panel replacement.
It depends on how "shot" your rockers are. If it's just the outer skin, I
can't see any reason to put the car in a jig. This is a non structural
piece. Replacement is easy (with a welder). The originals were spot welded
in. Replacements can be either spot welded back in, or use "rosette" or
"button" welds via a mig, fcaw, oxy, or if you're REALLY careful, maybe
stick. I used fcaw (flux core, wire-feed..... mig without the gas).
If you have to replace inner rockers, you may want to put the car in a
jig.... it all depends on how much you're going to cut out.
On my '73, both inner rockers (the middle ones, not the very inner ones) were
shot. Since it's a beater, I had replacements bent by a local sheet metal
shop, and welded them in.
I can show you pictures of the whole process, and the final result, if you
wish. Malvern is about an hour from my house (Yardley, PA).
- -bob
'73 GTV (possible vintage racer??? winter beater???)
'74 GTV (daily driver)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Jan Ben)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 11:09:17 EDT
Subject: GTV fg panels
I just called the fella whose number Jim Hayes posted in the last digest.
He makes fg panels for GTVs (and other cars?)
His prices are quite good, methinks. Of course, the shipping costs
could kill the savings.
Here's a few examples : full front piece, fender-fender - $150,
front fenders-$130 ea, rear- $140, etc. etc.
If several intersted parties get together, we can defray the shipping
costs. I've bought stuff from UK for my British money pits, and I'll
volunteer to handle the shipping.
anyone?
Jan
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Wermeyer_Brian/[email protected]
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 07:57:11 -0600
Subject: Rocker Panels
Item Subject: Message text
When I replaced the rockers on my spider, I cut through all of the spot
welds to remove the old ones and used the factory replacement panels.
The factory replacement panels are of the correct guage and compound
curve. The inner rockers or frame rails were treated with the 3M weld
through primer.
If you're concerned about rust, have stainless steel rocker panels
fabricated. I'm sure the compound curve can be put in, much in the same
way as on the aftermarket panels that International and Ricambi sells.
If you decide to use this foam method you should be aware that the foam
will have porosity. Porosity will trap moisture and will start the rust
process all over again. I understand that Lexus cars have used this
method to strengthen the rigidity of their cars. But, I don't know
where they've put the stuff.
Brian Wermeyer
------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 21:18:02 -0500
Subject: Ole' Rocker Chair
In AD 02:003 through 02:013 there was considerable discussion (Wermeyer,
Bies, Welty, Geiger, Steck, Kirshstein, prolly others) about GTV replacement
rockers: sources, forms, fidelity to original, materials etc. Ken Geiger
mentioned fiber glass, Jim Steck mentioned carbon fiber (and costs).
In the early eighties (if not before) some inspired people latched onto
foam-in-place plastics as a paliative for rust-ravaged rockers and possibly
other closed box sections: mix, squirt it in, let it expand and harden, trim
excess, bondo and paint and you should have a very light reinforcement of the
perforated structure. Unfortunately dirt, rust, and moisture inside would
limit the bond, the non-bonded interface could wick-in moisture, the
interiors wouldn't dry out, and there are horror stories of greatly
aggravated terminal rusting quickly following the "cure".
However, in a rocker-rebuild situation the opened-up rockers,
thinner-than-stock steel repair panels, and/or Geiger-proposed fiberglass
option would seem to open a better (and perhaps good) way of using the
foam-in-place plastics, as the inner panels could be cleaned and derusted and
prepared in any way appropriate for the best bond and best rust-resistance,
and the continuity of the core could ease the problem Jim Steck referred to
of limited bonding area between a new fiberglass panel and the remains of the
original. Avoiding welding should give more latitude for rust-resistant
finish of the inside. Factories (some factories, anyhow) dip cars after the
last welding but in a repair situation standard steel rocker welding leaves
rust-vulnerable depainted areas around the welds, even if the parts were
painted before assembly.
Jim? Ken? Anybody? Is it still a totally crackpot idea, or could the failures
of the past lead to better ways in the future? Ideas?
John
------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 22:04:17 -0500
Subject: GTV Rocker update.
Having spent the last 3 months restoring my 73 GTV, I can offer up some first
hand knowledge on the restoration sheet metal available on the market.
First, Allen Hall in Canada does make repro body parts for the 105 cars as
well as others. One of our Alfisti had trouble with him but I did not. I used
his lower fender extensions on all but the right rear forward of the wheel.
His metal is of heavier gauge than oem and is genarally bent accurately. He
tends to make his pieces too large, requiring much trimming. Certainly this
is still preferred to fabricating the panel. The areas behind the fenders are
insidious rust areas and there is much structure located around the front
door post/jack point area. Different gauges of metal live in these areas with
interesting contours to boot. In doing restoration work, do not overlook the
infrastructure. Cosmetics are only skin deep, so to speak.
Second, International Auto Parts supplied the rocker assembly for the
driver's side.
This part covers the area between the wheels and is a repro stamping of the
original. Fit is good it is of sturdy gauge albeit slightly thinner than oem.
When sealing the work areas, use high quality chemicals, such as those from
wurth of Germany. Be aware of drains, water flow dynamics and stone
accumulation in the wells. The cost of this sort of work is not for the weak
of wallet and alittle thought goes a long way.
On an unrelated note , I have for sale a 74 NOS front grille for the spider
and a 2.5 V6 modified F.I. brain set.
Jonathan Kirshtein
------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 10:11:17 -0500
Subject: oh no not another sunroof
In AD02:135 John Stapleton adds a very interesting note to the 105/115
sunroof question, (as well as to my lingering doubts about improving on what
God hath wrought) by telling that "Our ex Club President here in Brisbane has
probably the BEST 105 Series Giulia GTV Coupe in the World! I don't say this
lightly as it is better than when the factory built it in 1974. - - - it is
fitted with a "Genuine Factory" electrically powered sunroof that raises a
little lip when open. If it wasn't "Genuine" I doubt whether the guy would
have been interested in the car as a project car as he is SOOOOO fastidious."
Ken Geiger had said that his GTV sunroof had the flipper, but he also did say
it was manual. The Alfettas and GTV6s had manual sunroofs without flippers.
Here we have a certified (by fastidiosity, not necessarily by documents)
Genuine Factory sunroof which is both flippered and electricked, earlier than
Alfetta but later than Ken's car.
We have the prospect that the factory's list of optional extras in the late
sixties and early seventies included sunroofs manually operated without
flipper, with flipper but without electric power operation, with electric but
without flipper, and with both flipper and power. Perhaps even moon roofs. Of
course they could have been offered in different combinations in different
years, but Alfa usually stuck with a limited range of configurations through
a model run. I doubt that you can find an electric roof on an Alfetta, or a
manual roof on a Milano.
I have the window stickers, describing equipment and prices, for every Alfa I
have bought new from 1967 on. Surely some others are equally compulsive. Does
anyone out there have the factory window sticker from his bought-new sunroof
GTV? Or any other old piece of company paper mentioning that equipment on
that car? That paper should be out there, "if". That would be the bottom line
for Ken Geiger's scholarly search for what they did and when they did it. For
myself, I do not expect to see that piece of paper, but I will be glad to see
it and shout it to the World when and if it is produced.
One other parenthetical note: I have been burned (as have others) by the
names/years/series-numbers mixes. Is a "105 Series Giulia GTV Coupe - -
- -built in 1974" a fastidiously correct description?
Just asking.
------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Finally on windows, I bought a rubber seal for my rear window from
Centerline, last year. I paid ~$80.00... ouch. It really hurt to cut the
old one!. I'm keeping the glue-in front window, since I can't rationalize
the $$$ to convert it to the older gasket type (my '74 gtv has the gasket
type windshield....sans stainless trim...I think it looks much nicer than the
glue-in)
---------
From: Ken Geiger <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 10:14:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 105/115 GTV Glass removal
I can't stand it any more. All that cutting of rubber and bending of
aluminum extrusions.
For rubber gasketed glass all that needs to be done, with a second pair of
hands, is loosen up any
caulking that may be between the windshield's rubber gasket and the frame,
(Glassmen have a special hooked, ball tipped tool for this) then
carefully work the rubber gasket bit by bit to the other side (outside) of
the frame leaving the glass in the gasket and the extrusion in its channel.
The front glass is more brittal than the rear so more care is needed.
Sometimes some soft prise bars are usefull. Clean and wash the rubber
gasket to ready it for re-installation.
To put back in use a strong string with help from a friend. Details are
in the chassis manual.
The cost of getting this job professionaly done will likely be less than
the cost of breakage, cuttage or bendage. In Toronto we have lots of
mobile Glassmen that do window replacement in your driveway or company
parking lot. They used to only travel to bodyshops but now they seem to
be available anywhere any time.
Yours in GTV's
Ken Geiger
Toronto
------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Simon Favre )
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 22:40:00 -0700
Subject: Re: 1969 GTV glass
If the car has the press-in windshield, the removal is the same as the
rear. I would say don't remove the trim first. The whole assembly
should come out by prying the innermost edge of the rubber out past
the bodywork starting at the upper corners, and working toward the top
middle of the glass. It really helps to have several pairs of hands. I
let the upholstery shop do it, because they have glass people come over
to do it. The press-in stuff should be all assembled with trim before
trying to get it back on the car. It's just too difficult trying to get
the trim back on afterwards.
If you have the glue-in windshield, I believe you do have to pull the
trim first, then cut away. The press-in rubber might be difficult to
cut out.
------------------------------
>Oh yes, I want to remove the front and rear glass. Both rubber seals
>are in good shape so I don't want to sacrifice those, altho I've heard
>this is the easiest way. Any tips on glass removal, should I call in a
>professional to avoid the inevitable broken glass? And while I'm on
>the subject, where can I find the proper dashpad material? I'd better
>quit while I'm ahead.
I've done glass, and it's a little tricky. Lots of padding on the body,
and some muscular help is appropriate. Pros can get it out in minutes.
On a 67, the rubber can easily survive the R&R operation. The later
cars had a glue-in windshield that is usually cut out. The way to do it
is to start at the upper corners and pry the rubber loose from the body
while somebody pushes (or pulls via vacuum cups) on the glass. Once you
get the upper corners loose, work along the top section, and then the
whole thing will fold rignt out.
From: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 22:23:47 -0500
Subject: '69 GTV & daily commuter
In AD2:145 Peter Lundquist asks opinions about his financially constrained
_69 GTV restoration and his interest in purchasing an Alfetta Sedan to use as
a daily driver.
On his _69 windshield question, the sheet-metal is the same on glued and
gasketed windshields, but the glass and trim are different. The extruded trim
on the glued version is hard to salvage and even harder to find; the prudent
and aesthetically preferable course on a gasketed windshield is to cut the
old gasket, buy a new one for about $40 (probably more now) and save the
original glass if possible. If the glass is gone I would still go with the
gasketed version: better fit, neater, designer_s intent, easier to service
when/if a leak develops. Both windshields should be available at roughly
equal costs. By all means consider a new headliner while the glass is out; it
is convenient and relatively frugal then, inconvenient and more expensive if
you have to do it five years after a new windshield and/or gaskets go in. The
one that is there is going on thirty years old, another decade or two would
be asking a lot of it.
Gratuitous _advice as to what makes sense to do with the car in the current
state?_, I would say go for it, straight clean driver_s restoration, skip the
rhinestones and if possible consider some other color than red. Italian
designers of the period did use a full spectrum of lovely colors, ochres,
off-whites, burnt oranges, olive greens, periwinkles, the buyers did buy
them, and using one of them would be a good way to have an individual Alfa,
apart from the herd, and very much in the spirit of what the cars were in
their prime in Italy.
On his commuter sedan question, the Sport Sedan is a fabulously good choice
in my opinion, but given his ownership of a _69 GTV and his history of his
first car having been a 1969 Berlina, I must ask would he consider a 1750
Berlina as the commuter? They are also great cars, probably as cheap to get
in comparable condition, and would have the immense advantage of sharing
tools, techniques, manuals, and spare parts. Life can be simpler if, in a
pinch, one car can be temporarily cannibalized to let the other one get you
to work. Something as simple as the spare tire having the same bolt-circle
can be a Godsend.
Beyond that I can only applaud his smart choices. If he wants more
opinionated advocacy, he has my address and my endless best wishes.
John
------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Simon Favre)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 96 11:00:32 PST
Subject: Re: 1969 GTV (help?) and purchasing an Alfetta Sedan
Peter Lundquist scribbled:
>I have two questions, one regarding a car my wife and I own and another
>regarding a car I want to own (notice my wife wants no part of owning
>it).
>
>My wife and I have owned our 1969 GTV for about ten years, and just
>about completely gutted the car mechanically and rebuilt it back up.
>Now it gets a paint job. I am taking it down to bare metal, taking out
>the glass, and replacing all the rubber I can find. My question regards
>what else should I do at this point? For example, with the glass out,
>maybe it makes sense to put in a new headliner. Or, later GTV's used
>glue-in windshields, so I need to be careful in getting the right seal
>and if I put in a new windshield, I get the right one. We are under
>financial constraints, so I can't do everything (and I'd never get the
>money back out should I choose to sell). But can anyone out there
>offer any advice as to what makes sense to do with the car in the
>current state?
Having the glass out is the only way to do a good job on the
headliner. If there's anything wrong with the headliner, do it now.
You should also note that generally, doing the headliner makes one hell
of a mess in the car. You should definitely do the headliner first, and
the carpets last. The screws on the chrome trim around the door opening
and 3/4 windows will likely drive you nuts, but the result is worth
it. I was not able to get an exact reproduction of the Alfa material,
but the upholstery shop had one that is real close. On my 67, the
original material had a pattern of 3 holes in a group. The new stuff is
uniformly perforated, but it looks fine.
The early windsheilds are easier to deal with than the glue-in ones
from a restoration point of view. The trim for the later cars is almost
impossible to get now. Some later GTV's were converted back to the
press-in windshield. The glass is different, as is the weatherstrip.
If you live in an area with smog test requirements, note that 78 and 79
are some of the toughest years to get smogged. Alfettas also come with
a well known feature called "Factory Rust" (tm). ;=)
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Brian Shorey" <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 96 22:25:53 EST
Subject: RE: 1969 GTV (help?) and purchasing an Alfetta Sedan
>My wife and I have owned our 1969 GTV for about ten years, and just
>about completely gutted the car mechanically and rebuilt it back up.
>Now it gets a paint job. I am taking it down to bare metal, taking
>out the glass, and replacing all the rubber I can find. My question
>regards what else should I do at this point? For example, with the
>glass out, maybe it makes sense to put in a new headliner. Or, later
>GTV's used glue-in windshields, so I need to be careful in getting
>the right seal and if I put in a new windshield, I get the right one.
>We are under financial constraints, so I can't do everything (and I'd
>never get the money back out should I choose to sell). But can anyone
>out there offer any advice as to what makes sense to do with the car
>in the current state?
be real careful removing the windshield trim - it's hard to find. cut
the gasket, those are readily available. cutting the gasket should
allow for easy removal of the glass.
if the headliner is shot, by all means replace it when the glass is
out. proper headliner installation requires removal of all the glass.
>My other question regards soliciting advice on purchasing an Alfetta
>Sedan. I hear that a 1978 or 1979 is probably the best choice (in the
>USA), but on a more general level, should I even consider one? I
>commute about 60 miles a day, and I'd like to get a "beater" Alfetta
>to drive. I have always loved the looks (I've only driven the Alfetta
>coupe) and my first car was a 1969 Berlina. Alfa makes one of the
>best sports sedans (hey, maybe they should name a car that ...). If I
>hunt around I can probably pick up an Alfetta for around US$3k. I'd
>like to keep both Alfas ... suicide? Thoughts?
the alfetta is a great car - probably the last alfa i could fix
everything on myself. i prefer the '78's and '79's, they redid the
interior, among other upgrades.
$3k for an alfetta - yes, you'd have to hunt around for a $3k alfetta,
most sell for much less than that, $3k will get you into beater milano
territory.
not suicide. other than the rear transaxle, the alfetta is not unlike
the gtv. they require about the same level of maintenance, and have
about the same level of reliability (excellent, provided the car is
properly maintained). go for it!
bs, back to driving alfa's 365 days a year, and loving every mile of
it. anybody want to buy a benz?
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Robert A Brady)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 14:39:19 -0400
Subject: Glue-in versus gasket windshields
My '73 gtv had the glue in windshield. I will re-install it soon (since the
rust has been repaired and it's been repainted). I couldn't justify spending
the ~$200 it would cost for a used old style windshield and new gasket. (the
gaskets are ~$80....ouch!).
My '74 has the gasket windshield. Someone asked recently if they need the
trim.... mine does not have the trim, the windshield is fine. I know of
others who have their's installed without the trim as well. It could be that
the new gaskets don't require the "lock in" feature of the trim.
- -bob
'73 GTV (possible vintage racer??? winter beater???)
'74 GTV (daily driver)
------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Simon Favre)
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 96 15:29:42 PDT
Subject: Re: glue-in vs. gasketed windshield
Mike Grace scribbled:
>I'm stalled on the restoration of my '74 GTV. I fixed the problem of
>rust under the glue-in windshield and decided to replace it with the
>older gasket style which I heard rarely developed such rust. I bought
>a new gasket + windshield but cannot find the trim which "locks" the
>windshield in. Does anybody have a set they're willing to sell me? Is
>this trim really necessary to hold the windshield in?
The Alfa Parts Exchange usually has an assortment of these rarities on
hand. They are in Hayward, Ca. at (510) 471-7132. The trim is actually
not required to keep the windshield in. I didn't put my trim in before
getting the windshield and back glass in, and found it impossible to do
afterwards. I did press some thin black coax cable into the groove to
'spread' the gasket outwards. I intend to put the trim back in one of
these centuries, but that means pulling the glass again. The all-black
weatherstripping area complemented the white-black look I was
cultivating for the car anyway. It's been that way for 3 years now, and
nothing has fallen out. (knock on wood)
------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (gary& nancy valant)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:24:51 -0600
Subject: misc replies
To : Peter lundquist---Always install a gasket wingshield if at all
possible. The fed required glue in windshields for a while , and it resulted
in a lot of GTVs to deveope rust holes aroung the glued in trim. The
gaskets generally do not cause this problem.
------------------------------