Well, this editorial has produced four emailed responses, all of them from the people who think they are the targets of the editorial. One might think that I'd simply delete the emails and let the matter die...or die quicker, as the case may be.

However, it is a long-standing policy of mine to let people have their say, even when they don't agree with me. In that spirit, here are the responses. They will be in italics, and any of my comments will be in bold.

From Gretchie:

can't teach an old dog new tricks. (by Gretchen)

Thought I was dead eh? Ha nope. But you all should be proud of me I've done ALL MY HOMEWORK so far this year and guess what else! I've done it all at NIGHT... plus I've had an hour long (or more) nap for the past two days... I think I'm sick... when I got up today I thought it was 6:30 in the morning and I got ready for "school" then started to go crazy because I hadn't done any homework from the night before... and then after I finally realized it was 6:30 pm, I had "lupper" (not lunch but not supper... LUPPER.. my only meal of the day) which was cheeseless pizza... WEE I'm going vegan I think, anyway, and a diet coke. Then I did my homework, which surprisingly, I finished in time to watch DC reruns. Yes I know that this is so interesting to you, however, I'm in that area between sleep and awakeness... and well... I don't know what I'm doing. I have to work tomorrow, and I think I'm getting dropped off at the mall because my dad's coming early... so I have to go to bed soon so that I don't crash on the couch after school. Ugh plus that means that I have to have my homework done before like 4, when my dad comes to pick me up (it might even be earlier than that.) However, none of this paragraph has anything to do with my rant, therefore I will shut up at this point.

This rant (more like piece of work but whatever), in truth, is about a person whom Liz and myself butted heads with constantly in 1999 and a small bit of 98... I do believe anyway. While I wrote a seemingly wity piece about it on the forum, I deleted it mainly because it was written out of boredom and I was extremely tired when I wrote it, so it was a bit hard to follow, and it seemed like a bit of a tirade instead of what it was ment to be, a dirty joke (of sorts.) But whatever... so if you're not at all interested in a intelligent (boring) response to this editorial... just go back to your lives... or just imagine that the rest of this is filled with me remarking about how Artemis is a 30 something year old man who needs to get a new masturbation item... whichever you choose is fine with me, just realize that this post will try (and I mean really try) to be free of remarks like the ones stated above. (Mainly because Akemi believes that if I do that, I am "taking the bait.")

In his editorial, Artemis begins by saying that Liz and myself along with our ilk, whom neither of us have talked to in 6 or more months, were set on destroying the SMC. While he groups our ilk in with this idea, it was mainly one of my own and Liz's. While it was never ment to be taken seriously, as few of our actions on forums (in particular) are serious attempts at something, I had expected that Artemis would take these statements as truth, as he hasn't ever been able to see the humor in what Liz and myself post. If he had examined it in more detail, he might have noticed the sarcastic undertones and the way we just mocked certain key members of the smc and their belief that with the wave of a hand they could do what they wished and all others would follow. Another thing that seems to bother me about this editorial is the way that he hints that the members of c.nu and "our ilk" or the other members of the bitches 5, had no effect on the smc. This in truth, is not true. Members of the bitches 5 helped to increase the design standards of the SMC, and certain "suze-isms" are now commonly found on other pages. Along with this, there was an increase in the amount of people who listened to Tori Amos and liked anime, mainly due to Liz, K-Chan, Suze, and my promotion of her music. (There were others who promoted her too, however they wern't involved in the flame wars, so I don't see the nessecity of mentioning them here. But with Liz's and my "huffing and puffing" there was some damage done, which in my opinion, is funny, because it started out as a joke. Now there is an anti-SMC clique, and I remember at the time I recieved many e-mails about how our opinion changed their own... and if I actually saved my e-mail in a folder I could reprint some of them here. In addition to this, I'd just like you to look around, John. How many of the smc pages that were popular a year ago are still up an running? How many are up but haven't been updated in a year? While companies are trying to cash in on this anime boom, it's dead, much like the craze of pokemon cards. I'm not going to say that I helped bring down pokemon, but just look around, and then say that your sailor moon community is just as strong as it was the year before.

But to say that we "picked up our toys and went home" is a bit of a misconception. I don't think until may of this year Liz and myself really stopped complaining/associating with the anime community. While I could write about the reasons for this decision in the space provided, it's an issue that has, in truth, been beaten to the ground, and I don't really feel like getting into it a 9:55 pm. While he describes c.nu as a coterie, we arn't that exclusive. Liz and I realized early on that 300 megs is a LOT of space and we'd never use it all so we invited a few of our friends to share the wealth. But right now, c.nu is offering to host non anime related projects. While we haven't gotten any responses, the offer is there. Also you describe me as the ringleader in this activity. While I may have started some of the forum flooding that went on, I was rarely a part of what went down later on. I can tell you honestly, that I usually write something at least a bit interesting when I flame. I don't do posts like From: Big Tits Title: HEY I HAVE BIG BOOBS? WANNA FUCK ME? and then no text. But I find it interesting when people bring up me in a conversation. I am NOT that special. But hey, if you want to about me then whatever, about me. I've said something to that affect about the whole funkai.net situation, if I've said/done something of such magnitude that you're STILL talking/ranting/insulting me about it then in a sick way, it is a compliment.

However, what I didn't appreciate, and what I've never appreciated in an Artemis editorial, is the way that he assumes that he knows me. In truth, he doesn't have any idea what kind of person I am. I already am working for my car insurance, and I have over $1000 saved up... along with this I am getting another hefty paycheck tomorrow, however my "teen rebel" talk as he likes to call it wasn't so much nonsense. While most of it was done in jest (more like all of it), I don't regret a moment of my flaming and other things that Liz and myself did for fun... because we've liked and still like to piss people off. However, I have never been "hard to deal with" as you say. Many people online expect that I am this mega-bitch, who is beyond reason, but in truth I am a very nice level headed person.

<< ## >>

I'll let Gretchie's response stand on it's own...after all, I got to say what I said without interruptions.

From Jen:

>Sometime last year there was a group of people in the Sailor Moon online >community that went around acting like a bunch of spoiled brats, kicking virtual >sand at people, and making trouble. Those of you around here last year know I am >talking about Gretchie, Liz, and their ilk.

First of all, I don't appreciate being lumped into a group otherwise known as Gretchie and Liz's 'ilk'. Yes, they are my friends. Yes, I often find myself relentlessly defending them. However, we are not of the same genetical makeup, nor do we agree on everything, so in the future, please try and have the decency to realize that not all of us are mindless sheep simply following Gretchen or Liz.

First of all, as far as this is concerned, there won't BE a future, because I've gotten all I need to out of BOTH threads in the editorial. (You and the rest of the "ilk" seem to have fixated on ONE of the threads, and the least important of the two, to be honest with you...)

I would like to point out, however, that we all do agree that you're just plain annoying.

I annoy you? I'll take that as a compliment. You see, you have options here. You could either do nothing, and let my annoyance pass unanswered, and therefore unvalidated, or you could respond. You chose to respond.

I simply wrote an editorial about the question of whether the Sailormoon online community could be destroyed by anything other than the passage of time, and in order to make sure the readers knew where out of left-field this was coming from, I provided a bit of background. Gee, and that background happened to include a bit about Gretchie and GUESS WHO gets all bent out of shape about it....you and Liz and Hillary.

I knew as soon as I posted the editorial that I might get you and the rest of the ilk to respond, and guess what...Gretchie and Akemi were right. You fell for the "trap" hook, line, and sinker. And in doing so, you proved my point about the ilk.

>One of the big things these degenerates said they planned to do was to bring down >or cause the fall or the death of the Sailor Moon online community.

Actually; no. Unless you're simply too blind to notice, the downfall of the Sailor Moon online community brought it upon itself. A hierarchy system was unofficially instilled. Flame wars were not only commonplace, they were soon eagerly looked forward to. Why? Because otherwise, there wasn't any action going on. Sailor Moon has ended it's run. Other than newly dubbed episodes, there's nothing left to explore or look forward to. Numerous people have realized this, and moved on. With a lack of people actively involved in Sailor Moon, you can't exactly have a flourishing "SM community".

Well, aside from the fact that Gretchie and Liz OFTEN talked about how THEY were going to bring down the SMC (whether it was BS or not, it still happened), the fact of the matter is that the online community is very much alive and flourishing. There are still numerous forums and chats out there, and people still have major amounts of webpages, and guess what...the newly dubbed stuff not only has re-invigorated the sites of the community that may have been dying, it has spurred a whole new round of growth, and speculation about further dubs.

So I am sorry Jen, but the Sailormoon online community is far from dead.

>Now, if you are a normal person, you'd find yourself looking at that last line and >thinking: "What? HUH?"

No, if you were a normal person, you'd find yourself asking, "Huh? I'm normal? What's wrong with me?"

I wondered when she was going to start insulting me. You see folks, Jen is one of these people who quickly runs out of civility and quickly resorts to insults. Because of this, she is also easily-baited, and this is proven by the fact that rather than simply letting the editorial go and letting it fade to the archive pages, she jumps in with a response that doesn't wait two paragraphs before she starts flinging insults.

>It was like they were the wolf outside the brick house of the three little pigs. Not >any amount of their huffing and puffing, none of the whining, none of the forum >floods, in short, nothing they could do was going to stop the SMC.

You're right Artemis. What brought down the SMC (partly)was you. A middle aged man with nothing better to do than stir up trouble online due to a lack of anything better to do.

Well, if I were to agree to that, I'd also be negating my editorial, which states that the online community is such that the only thing that will dest it will be the passage of time as people gravitate away from being fans of Sailor Moon and perhaps of anime in general.

And I will admit that there were times that I stirred up trouble, either by taking arguments with such people as Xplo too far or sometimes starting conflicts here and there, but it is ludicrous to think that that in and of itself could bring down the Sailormoon online community.

You didn't like Gretchie and Liz, so what happened? You contacted Bravenet and had Apatt's forum removed. Later on you turned in the Moon Circle's forum as well. Why? Because you can't stand a formidable opponent. When someone opposes you, or even begins to have ideas that you consider radical, you try and find every way to annihilate them.

Well, here's the truth...something Jen is not used to... When I contacted Bravenet, in late January of this year, the SMZ/CC forum was full of flood postings that were pornographic, and a large majority of them were directed at me. In my email to Bravenet, I simply asked if this sort of behavior was condoned by Bravenet. If Bravenet had thought that the conduct in the SMZ/CC was kosher, they would not have closed the forum in the first place. In the end, Apatt did the right thing, and re-opened the forum with Suze as a moderator.

As for the Moon Circle, I did not close them down. After the SMZ/CC was closed, a bunch of them swarmed out and started flooding other forums, including Ziggy's and my Bravenet forums, and Moon Circle. Moon Circle closed temporarily in order to reformat themselves to prevent such garbage in the future, and Ziggy and I simply cleaned out our forums and continued to do business.

In fact, Bravenet did not close my forum down because they noticed that the person who complained to them was the same person doing the forum flood, so they simply requested that I clean the forum.

See, lies and fabrications being combatted by the truth... :)

I'm sure you pat yourself on the back for these kind of achievements, but I sit here shaking my head at how pathetic it truly is.

Nope. I simply did what I had to do. I had put up with the forum floods and the porn posts for roughly five months, and I was through being the target. I had had enough, and most of the people I've talked to agree that the SMZ/CC in the state that it was in in January deserved to be shut down. The achievement, as you put it, belongs to Apatt, who restarted the SMZ/CC forum and put in a moderator that actually moderates the forum.

>So what happened? >It's simple. They picked up their toys and went home.

That's what you'd like to think happened. They got tired of dealing with you. Rather than listen to your mindless middle-aged ramblings, they decided to put their time and energies into something much more productive. They go to school, they have jobs. They have a life, which is something I'd imagine you envy, seeing as your life support revolves around a computer and an Internet connection.

Ah yes, more insults. I won't duel lives with the ilk, as I am calling the members of Cephiro (excepting Gretchie), but gee, in the period over the summer of this year, when I don't have much contact with the Internet, Gretchie, Liz, and the others have basically dropped off from the Sailormoon online community, and you can't blame that on me, because I really didn't do much with the community from April through June, and contact dropped off almost entirely in August.

It's kinda hard for me to "deal" with people when I am not here. It's kinda hard for me to "ramble" if I am not here.

> The hive of this group is the website Cephiro.nu and while they occasionally get a >new member to join their coterie, they are quietly ranting about school or music, >and other teen items.

Quietly ranting? Artemis, why don't you just come out with the truth? They found better things to do than deal with you. Your childish antics became boring. You're the one acting immature, writing an 'editorial' almost a year after any incident with the two of them. It's quite obvious you're obsessed with them both, haven't you any lady friends your own age to stalk?

I am sorry to subject you to Jen's rambling insults, but I do so to be fair to the other side in this issue. It appears that while I and others could talk about the subject of the desting of the Sailormoon online community in a civil manner, people such as Jen can't. She apparently didn't actually read the editorial, because she calls me immature for "writing an 'editorial' almost a year after any incident with the two of them" when in fact, Gretchie and the rest of the people mentioned are only mentioned in passing on the way to the real subject of the editorial. Then she accuses me of stalking.

I say this to that... Jen, if you have PROOF that I am a stalker, then you are free to call the Casper Metro Police at 307-235-8278. My name of course, is John Brengman, and they can track me down from there. I take these kinds of things deadly seriously. I don't put up with them, and my response is to demand that you either put up or shut up. I have given you the means to prosecute me if you think I'm actually a criminal.

>In short, they have started what I think everyone goes through at some point in their >lives.

Yes, they have. At some point, in everyone's life, they're going to realize that dealing with you is like dealing with a small child throwing a temper tantrum. They move on. I only wish they had done so earlier.

And yet you continue to badger and insult me. Gee, who doesn't have a life now?

>I have been talking to a person for the past month, and the subject of Gretchie and >her gang has come up repeatedly.

I can see that we're obviously an everyday focal point for you, but I guess my question is, why? Why do we affect your life so much? Can you not get through a single day without praying for some sort of online war cry from us? Apparently not.

Actually, the only thing I and my friend ever discussed was how they said they were going to bring down the Sailormoon online community, and how it never happened. At some point, Gretchie and Liz talked quite excitedly about an exact date that they said something big would happen on. I remember actually being very interested in this, and I waited for something BIG to happen in the Sailormoon online community. Of course, nothing did.

Oh well...

> What I have said, and what I will continue to say is that that group are going >through the stages of late adolescence, and soon, they will be adults.

Too late, I'm nineteen years old.

Last I heard, nineteen is still a teenager.

> Real Life changes people, let me tell you. I went into Real Life as a rebellious kid, >and ten years later, I believe I am a sensible adult.

No, you're still a crybaby sobbing because someone urinated on you and your precious diaper.

Ah yes! More insults!

>The same will happen here. Let Gretchie get rent payments and car insurance >under her belt and she'll suddenly see that all of her teen-rebel talk was all so much >foolishness.

I doubt it. Gretchie has car insurance payments. She deals with bills. She's exhibiting more adult qualities than you are, since you're obviously trying to incite some sort of online riot against her.

How am I inciting a riot? I have an opinion about something Gretchie was involved with, and I explained my opinion. Anyways, as soon as other topics warrant comment, the editorial that YOU think is inciting an online war will quietly fade onto the archive pages and we'll be on to other topics.

What I want to know is will you comment so freely on those other topics? I doubt it.

> She may become embarrassed about her actions within the community, and while >she may never ask for an apology...that would be too embarrassing...she will >however be a more sensible person, and she'll be easier to deal with.

Why should she apologize? For speaking her mind? For not putting up with your bullying? I think not. You owe her an apology, for constantly and continously worming your way into her life. Get your own.

>I compare Gretchie and her ilk to the fire marshal and the club owner, who were >intent on stopping the show, and didn’t listen to suggestions that the band simply >be allowed to go on stage to get the situation over and done with. They just wanted >to stop the show and get the fans out of the building.

Again, it's degrading and insulting to refer to us all as "ilk".

Gee, and here you are insulting me and saying degrading stuff about me, and *I'M* supposed to be sorry? You are certainly one to talk.

And no, we had no intentions of 'shutting the party down'. You messed with them, we messed with you. Payback's a bitch. Now drive off on your little tricycle with your sunshiney blond ponytails flapping in the wind, and go cry about it to someone who cares.

Apparently you care enough to write this big long-winded load of crap to me. Apparently someone besides myself needs a life.

>But the kicker is this. When you break everything down, the Sailor Moon >community is made up of FANS...people who simply like the show, and in this >case, they either also like getting online and talking about it, or they build >webpages, or perhaps a bit of both.

No, it's made up of psychotic old men who have nothing better to do. As you've just proved Artemis.

Ziggy will just LOVE it that she's being called a "psychotic old man". Thanks Jen. You've just provided me with something to have a bit of fun with the forum members. I'm sure they'll think your opinions are just wildly entertaining.

By the way, and you can publish this on that pathetic piece of crap you call a website, I take full credit for hacking your site on Geocities. Quite simple really, and if I got bored, I could probably do it again. However, being a biochemistry major in college, I find myself with better things to do than entertain a psychotic old man. Cheers love.

-Jen

One of the things I love is that Jen here admits to comitting a criminal act, that of destruction of property and hacking a website.

I posted this for two reasons. One: to show you how ignorant a person can be. I wrote an editorial about the supposed "downfall of the Sailormoon online community" and I get four emails from Cephiro members or associates, and out of them, ONE was civil. And in the case of Jen, all she can think to do is ring up insult after insult, and she tops it off with a threat to hack my site.

The second reason I posted this is so that I will have eye-witnesses in case anything *DOES* happen. And if something should happen, I can safely say that not only do I have the site backed-up and ready to upload again, but rest assured that steps can be taken.

What I can not believe is that all of this is over an editorial, that, as I have said MANY times before, only mentions Gretchie and her ilk in passing en route to the real substantive question...can the Sailormoon online community, or ANY online community for that matter, be destroyed through anything other than the passage of time.

I still say "No", and I have yet to be disproven. However, except for the possible re-hacking of my site, I expect that this discussion will end. I will not post the other two responses because they have asked that I not do so. If I get no further response, then theis topic will go into the archives as soon as I find new stuff to talk about.

Until then...

Artemis

(comments welcome - please email me at [email protected] and I will post your comments here as well.)