Registered: Jul 2005
Posts: 621

ok,we know the debate over creating an ibl from a clone only,i don't really want to get into that here.what i would like to talk about is whether or not clone only "strains" are really a strain or just an phenotype(parden me if i mess up my terminology)of another strain.it's a common fact that the cheese was grown from skunk #1,chemdog was grown form bagseed and i'm sure that every other clone only was grown from seed(duh) so do they really qualify as strains?i did grow chemdog for quite a few years so this is not a clone only bashing thread but i am of the opinion that something that cannot reproduce on it's own and does not have the ability for m/f plants is not a strain but rather a phenotype of another strain.i have no science background but i am an old phuck with tons of life experience(and been growing for 25 years) but that is my opinion.it has nothing to do with science to me rather just common sense.i know i could be wrong and probably am but i would love to hear what people think and what science has to say.my vote-clone only is not a strain

Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 79

The underlying thing that defines what a strain is or may be is a lot of science. It is all based on selective breeding and genetics.

Remember learning about Gregor Mendel who bred peas? He was one of the founders of genetic research and science.

A strain is a laymens term that is basically much like a dog breed. A strain is a 'breed' of plant that has been mass bred and selected for distinctive traits. Usually there are some reasonable phenotypic variations within the strain, but for the most part it should be somewhat stable. This can take years to do though.


Usually IBLs are 'true breeding' strains beacause they are homozygous for many of thier traits...that means the F1 and F2 hybrids look much like thier parents. It has EVERYTHING to do with science and genetics. When you look at everything on the protien level in genetic chemistry it all starts making sense. DNA codes for mRNA which codes for certain protiens in a certain sequence. These protiens make up what we know as 'expressed traits'. They are responsible for having different strains....different combinations of aminoacids and protiens give a different genotype. Having some reasonable consitency with this gives us strains with certain desired phenotypes. Of course we as growers or breeders dont get a chance to do a systematic and genetic analysis of the DNA coding sequences of different strains so we dont get to see the minor protein differences. We rely on selective breeding. A method that has worked for thousands of years.

Registered: Jul 2005
Posts: 807

Re: when is a strain considered a strain?

Originally posted by rudedude ok,we know the debate over creating an ibl from a clone only,i don't really want to get into that here.what i would like to talk about is whether or not clone only "strains" are really a strain or just an phenotype(parden me if i mess up my terminology)of another strain.it's a common fact that the cheese was grown from skunk #1,chemdog was grown form bagseed and i'm sure that every other clone only was grown from seed(duh) so do they really qualify as strains?i did grow chemdog for quite a few years so this is not a clone only bashing thread but i am of the opinion that something that cannot reproduce on it's own and does not have the ability for m/f plants is not a strain but rather a phenotype of another strain.i have no science background but i am an old phuck with tons of life experience(and been growing for 25 years) but that is my opinion.it has nothing to do with science to me rather just common sense.i know i could be wrong and probably am but i would love to hear what people think and what science has to say.my vote-clone only is not a strain

A strain is a line of offspring derived from common ancestors.

A clone is a group of identical genes, cells, or organisms derived from a single ancestor.

#Some stuff is shared with clones because a specific phenotype can not be reproduced with sex. The offspring from the next generation can not be exact of the same phenotype.

...so its reproduced with cuttings & by many people called a "clone strain" because of the special phenotype

Hope this helps ya dude N§F

Last edited by Nature§Freak on December 12th, 2005 at 09:27 PM

Registered: Jul 2005
Posts: 621

ty nsf and dan.so i guess i stick to my original opinion that a clone only strain is not really a strain at all.to me reproduction thru sex is the key to a true strain.no doubt being outstanding phenotypes selected for potency and other traits the clone only will outperform it's sisters from seed (given the abscence of another outstanding pheno anyhow)however it lacks the ability to reproduce.the whole reason that everything alive is here is simply to propagate,without that ability i don't see how anything could be considered a strain.doesn't mean everyone shouldn't want it in their garden though,lol.i loved chemdog when i had it.i guess that a phenotype would have to really be outstanding to differentiate from the seeds it was sourced from though.i mean i have an outstanding indica pheno of bubblegum that i love,definately more potent and tasty than it's seed sisters,i call it...................bubblegum!lol.i could see where a way to differentiate it from my other bubblegum would be helpful but to me it was just the best pheno of bubblegum that i had.

Registered: Jul 2005
Posts: 807

Originally posted by Dan-o Usually IBLs are 'true breeding' strains beacause they are homozygous for many of thier traits...that means the F1 and F2 hybrids look much like thier parents.

Dan, think about that, again

# the second part is simply not true...

Last edited by Nature§Freak on December 12th, 2005 at 09:29 PM

Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 79

Originally posted by Nature§Freak Dan, think about that, again # the second part is simply not true...

You should think about it again...

TRUE BREEDING strains are strains that have become VERY stable and have small pheno variation. These types of strains or IBLs have been self fertilizing out in the wild, hence the name INTERBREEDING LAND RACE. These are strains like skunk, haze , afghani

When you cross a pure IBL afghani with another afghani from the same population Do thier offspring look different? No, this is because they are either majorly homozygous recessive or homozygous dominant for certain traits.

True Breed test crosses result in offspring that are much the same as the parents. I have a degree in botany, and i took genetics...so I remember thinking about this a long time ago.


PS(edit). I think this was a simple misunderstanding. When i said that F1 and F2 hybrids look much like thier parents, I really meant the offspring between two of the same IBLs. I should not have said hybrid - sorry for going off the handle .lol

Last edited by Dan-o on December 12th, 2005 at 09:44 PM

Registered: Jul 2005
Posts: 807

Originally posted by Dan-o When i said that F1 and F2 hybrids look much like thier parents, I really meant the offspring between two of the same IBLs. I should not have said hybrid.

Yup...this is the point
The offspring from an ibl afghani and an affi from the same population is not a F1 hybrid... bio basic

Last edited by Nature§Freak on December 12th, 2005 at 10:19 PM

Registered: Oct 2001
Posts: 5334
Overgrow Subscriber

to me a strain is considered a strain when I can get seeds of it and they will have relativily similar characteristics.

I just take the PHOTOGRAPHS and the models ! GLASS SCREENS "trichomefarmer has such a load that even his dental fillings are made of karma." yeah and they don't work well at all.

Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 17

I think the main point is lineage, our beliefs regarding “kinship”, and our typological desires. I think pot strains can be compared to dog or cat breeds. There are “pure breeds” and there are “mutts”. Often the “pure breeds” originate from a specific geographic region/environment/culture and actually represent vast and distant canine family lineages- much as I assume the “land-race strains” represent. Often the family line of these breeds is recorded. Some “pure breed” dogs and cats are not ancient in-bred lineages- much like many “strains” of pot. The Maine Coon Cat and the Chesapeake Bay Retriever are “breeds” that have only been around for several hundred years. They are recent lineages. I guess you could say that NL is kind of like a Chesapeake Bay Retriever- though I doubt the Cannabis Cup is anything like a cat show. Now, some people would say these new breeds are “mutts” because they don’t have a long enough recorded lineage, but others readily accept creations such as “Schnoodles” Schnauzer –Poodles as breeds.
We have all fallen in love with a mutt. Sometimes you can tell exactly what kinds of dog breed made a mutt- sometimes you can’t. To carry my analogy to the point of ridiculousness, mutts are our canine “who’s your daddy” and the pound is full of bag-seeds. lol. Never-the-less, in reality the “mutts” and the “pure-breeds” families are similarly ancient, but one has a recorded lineage.
My low-tek thoughts.

Registered: Jun 2003
Posts: 326

definition: from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strain_(biology)

Plants
A strain is sometimes used to indicate a group of plants with similar (but not identical) appearance and/or properties. The term has no official status

Registered: Jul 2005
Posts: 621

well by that definition a clone only "strain" cannot be a strain because it is identical to the other cuts.it is not really a group of plants,rather it is really just one plant.

Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 3638
Overgrow Subscriber

I think we all agree that an ibl such as blueberry can be called a strain.

Then there are F1 crosses such as northern lights X blueberry from which we expect fairly consistent plants but not truebreeding, is that a cross, a hybrid, a strain or all three?

Then we have the so-called poly hybrids or crosses of hybrids such as, for example, Silver Haze X White Widow. The plants from these crosses are expected to show a lot of differences -- are they strains? the beginnings of strains? I think they are strains -- not at all consistent or true breeding but strains all the same.

An individual plant from within a strain can only ever be a representative of that strain -- call it whatever you like but it is still a member of its original strain (stable or not).

An example is this skunk clone known as "cheese" -- there is no "cheese" strain, it's skunk #1 and a cheese X blueberry cross is a skunk X blueberry cross as all of the cheese ancestors come into play.