Posted by The Liberal Elder [TheLiberalElder] on April 09, 1999 at 10:27:40 {qzNMJDwJ.2ONOMIVMLL2w1IXqCKa5s}:
In Reply to: My Assignment From Jehovah posted by / You Know on April 09, 1999 at 09:51:38:
Agape love - the power to love the unloveable.
Brother, I have agape love for you and hope that
Jehovah deals with you in a manner that it more
merciful than the manner in which you deal with others.
It appears that the rhetoric
and vitriolic comments are
once again starting to get out of hand.
I personally hate to see the word apostate used on this
forum, because most of the conservative hard-liners
misuse the expression, scripturally speaking, and
throw
the word around as a put-down, an expression to be used
like a four letter word. Moderators this is simply intolerable.
I could make a better case that the society and the
hard-liners are apostates, than can be made
regarding
most former Witnesses, and that is a fact.
For someone to come here and express his opinion regarding the Watchtower Society, or
to point out historical facts that hard-liners would like to ignore
does not make that
person an apostate, even if he has
chosen to leave the organization at the prodding of his
or her conscience.
Consider the following comments from the Society:
*** g84 8/22 28 From Our Readers ***
"We surely were not trying
to take cheap shots at the pope or the Catholic Church, nor
were we criticizing Catholics. The Catholic Church occupies a very significant position in
the world and claims to be the way of salvation for hundreds of millions of
people. Any
organization that assumes that position should be willing to submit to scrutiny and
criticism. All who criticize have the obligation to be truthful in presenting the facts and fair
and objective in assessing such. In
both respects we try to live up to that obligation. ED."
Would this not also apply as well to the Watchtower Society
whom occupies a significant place in the world, and influences millions of people? Should
not they, and the
hard-liners, also be willing to submit to scrutiny
and criticism as they suggest the Catholic Church be willing to, or should there be a
double standard? Should they simply be able to cry "apostate," whenever
distasteful facts are
brought up? The answer seems obvious.
Consider this quote:
*** w63 11/15 688 Execution of Divine Judgment upon False Religion ***
" Can there be false religion? It is not a form of religious persecution for anyone to say
and to
show that another religion is false. It is not religious persecution for an informed
person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false, thus allowing persons to see the
difference between false religion and true religion.
But in order to make the exposure and
show the wrong religions to be false, the true worshiper will have to use an authoritative
means of judgment, a rule of measurement that cannot be proved faulty. To make a public
exposure of
false religion is certainly of more value than exposing a news report as being
untrue; it is a public service instead of a religious persecution and it has to do with the
eternal life and happiness of the public."
I cite this
quotation simply to show how the society has viewed their efforts, and to
establish a basis and the legitimacy of the efforts of others to come here
and state why they believe that our religion is false, or at least teaches some
falsehoods.
This does not make them "apostates."
The facts of the matter, as many of us are aware, are that the Society is currently teaching
several false doctrines, and that it's past is littered with prophetic failures,
and
embarrassing episodes of various types that the society endeavors to cover over.
Hardliners should carefully consider the facts, and the advice offered by the Watchtower:
*** w52 3/15 171 Choosing Now to Live Then ***
"If
the religious organization does not teach and act in accord with God's will recorded in
the Bible, but operates on a religious creed of its own, how different is it from someone's
following his own personal will? It is still
idolatry, only this time the person is idolizing an
organization instead of himself....If the religious organization is not teaching God's will, is
not following it accurately, then its adherents are likewise missing the mark,
regardless of
how sincerely they may conform to the organization's will."
Reform will never happen if we silence the voices of those who come forward and blow
the whistle on the organization.
Additionally, those ones willing to
dedicate their time to shedding light on the facts should
not have to be insulted on a daily basis by obnoxious individuals whose only course is to
utter mindless drivel and essentially curse them by calling them "apostates."
I
would submit to you fellow moderators that the true apostates are those who place their
loyalty to an organization, and a group of men, above their loyalty to God.
There is simply no way that we can determine in a forum like this
whether or not someone
has abandoned their faith in God and his son, and truly become an apostate, and since all
of us know that the future for such ones is eternal destruction, I cannot think of a more
insulting comment or
expletive that could be said to a fellow brother in Christ.
I URGE ALL MODERATORS TO IMMEDIATELY DELETE POSTS CONTAINING
PERSONAL ATTACKS AND REFERENCES TO PARTICIPANTS AS APOSTATES,
DIOTREPHES, HYMANAEUS, KORAH, ETC. - IT IS AN
ABUSE OF FREE
SPEECH, AND USURPS JESUS ROLE AS JUDGE.
What is an apostate?
I'd like to make some comments from technical side to clear
up some misconceptions about the word "apostasy" and an
"apostate" if I may.
The term
"apostasy" is taken from the Greek expression "apostasia."
According the to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance this word means:
"a defection from TRUTH; a falling away, to forsake [truth]."
Also, "Thayer's Greek Lexicon" defines "apostasia" as:
"a falling away, defection, apostasy in the bible namely from
TRUE RELIGION."
Then too, "Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words"
describes the Greek word "apostasia" as:
"A defection, revolt, apostasy,
used in the New Testament of religious
apostasy."
IMPORTANT POINT: the word "apostasia" [which translates "apostasy"]
is only used twice in the Greek Scriptures. The 2 places are:
(1) Acts 21:21 [Paul accused of teaching an
"apostasy"] and
(2) 1 Thessalonians 2:3 [man of lawlessness guilty leading "temple"
into an "apostasy."]
Hebrew Scriptures: The ancient Hebrew has no exact equivalent for the word "apostasia,"
however, the word "showbab," is a
close rendering and has been translated as "apostasy"
in some translation of the Bible.
In fact according to "Strong's Concordance," "showbab" can actually mean "apostate, i.e.
idolatrous; backsliding forwardly, turn away."
Also "Wilson's Old Testament Word Studies" defines "Showbab" as being:
"rebellious, backsliding."
CONCLUSION: Therefore, it is clear that true "apostasy," strictly from aBiblical
standards, in either the Hebrew or Greek text, really
means
a complete defection from Divine TRUTH or TRUE RELIGION.
And so, we must first establish WHAT IS TRUTH, before we can establish when one is
going against the "truth" or has made a "complete defection and separation from
"Divine
Truth," and is thus deliberately making himself an "apostate" or teacher of an "apostasy."
True "apostasy" in the Biblical sense, has little or nothing
to do with following an organization or the teachings of an
organization, unless of course
that particular organization teaches correct, Bible-based "TRUTH." That means the
organization, must teach that which can be fully substantiated and supported by God's
Word of Truth, the Bible, just
as Jesus and the apostles did. This Divine "Truth" is what
"sanctifies" the footstep followers of Christ and identifies us true disciples of Jesus Christ.
-- See John 17:17.
The following scripture is also of some interest:
Matthew 5:22 NJB
"But I say this to you, anyone who is angry with a brother will answer for it before the
court; anyone who calls a brother "Fool"
will answer for it before the Sanhedrin; and anyone who calls him
"Traitor" will answer for
it in hell fire."
Footnote for "Traitor":
"To the first meaning ('worthless person') of the Greek word, Jewish usage added the
much more contemptuous one of 'apostate.'"
These are the facts of the matter "You Know".
You are right about one thing, however. You do have an assignment from Jehovah - to love God
and your fellow man. It does not appear that you
are faithful in caring out your assignment.
LE