Posted by J.H. [JH] on April 08, 1999 at 16:38:05 {vxsc0.TBNkHSG.vl05doHR5JhS9/hc}:
In Reply to: "Science" Religionists posted by WW on April 08, 1999 at 15:06:25:
WW,
You have consistently ignored the advice given to you by Al: Check it yourself. There's no magic behind being a scientist or having a PhD.
Science builds on common (and not-so-common) sense. We observe, and we apply rational thought to these observations and form conclusions. Unlike normal "common sense" which is clearly limited when the problem reaches a certain level of complexity, science has given us a methodology for applying rational thought to a wide range of problems out of reach for normal "intuitive" approaches. By stacking common sense on common sense, if you will, we are improving our understanding of the universe.
In short, science is no methodology for finding The Truth, but for avoiding The Big Mistake (and the small mistakes). The nice thing is that by applying a battery of rigid tests to an idea (a 'theory' in science lingo), we can come very close to very certain the idea is not wrong if it doesn't fail any of the tests. That is, we have come up with a theory that is very, very likely to be correct.
You still live in a fantasy world where you think whoever can stack up the most number of names (and hopefully with PhD's) behind your preconceived opinion wins. It's not so.
Fact's and rationality is not beyond the reach for any human being (at least I chose to believe it isn't). When someone makes a claim, you can test it.
If someone claims that a massive flooding caused mammoths to be quick frozen, we can apply what we know about temperature falls and water. We know that the temperature increases when it starts to rain. We further know that nothing, and that includes mamoths, can actually become deep-frozen under water. Of course, we can also look at and check the mammoths themselves or, as the second best, read the reports of those people who did the original excavations of the few whole mammoths that are found. We can check if these descriptions match the claims made by the catastrophists. And if it does not, we have found that:
1) the proposed explanation for the phenomenon "deep frozen mammoth" is physically impossible.
2) There is no evidence that the phenomenon "deep frozen mammoth" even exists!
There is no magic involved here, WW, just pure rational thought.
There is actually no problem with science, WW. There is only one problem: people like yourself and Tally and countless crackpottish fundies of different types don't like the answers science comes up with, so you attack the messenger.
But nobody with his sanity in place can deny that the basic methodologies of science -- science is methodologies -- are sound. To do that would mean denying that our sense observations gives meaningful information about the world around us, and/or denying that rational thought has any bearing on interpreting these observations.
Unless you will claim that science -- observations and logic -- is meaningless, your claim is reduced to one of attacking the conclusions. Well, that means you will have to do your homework and check the observations and the logic for yourself.
But that is something you will not do, because you're either too lazy to do so, you think you aren't smart enough, or (the most likely) you fear that science is basically correct, and that your fantasies are just that.
So quit whining about how big and bad conspiracies are demolishing your pet fantasies, WW. Put up a rational defense, or at least stop the pathetic sulking and whining.