Posted by Al; [Aldurant] on April 03, 1999 at 09:35:16 {Ed9c7782HMbNVk78PDhst74NX2uzuA}:
In Reply to: ******Common Sense Argument posted by WW on April 03, 1999 at 07:52:56:
I've written a bit on this on H20 already. This can be a really long and abstract topic but I'll shoot for shorter. I think that "God" simply needs redefining, and it amounts to an observation of principle. The properties of the universe include matter, energy, space, time, life, and mind. These properties are at least statistically harmonious, essentially integrated. They pre-exist their manifestation, at least in principle, though conventional ideas of time are not real contraints.
Without elaborating further, all of our values contained in the idea of God are best pursued with our whole mind. It is a form of humility to accept the universe as we find it.
-Theology has been called the study of human opinions and of human fancies concerning God. It is not the study of God himself in the works that he has made; but in the works of writings that man has made. We cannot serve God in the manner we serve those who cannot do without such service; the only idea we can have of serving God is that of contributing to the happiness of the creation that God has made. As for hope: The power that gave us existence is able to continue it, in any form and manner it pleases; and it appears more probable to me that I shall continue to exist hereafter, than that I should have had existence, as I now have, before that existence began.- This is from Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason".
Developing some highly structured and controlled form of the idea of God is not in harmony with creation, something we know is from God, whatever he may be, without interference from man. We may err in perceiving it, but we have the gift of reason, and the sciences, which are also God's gift, not man's invention, and statistical check and balance which averages out to improvements, and the means to help our fellow man. It takes humility to simply take what we know and leave it at that until we can learn more.
We have no grounds for confronting those who do not perceive the principles of the universe as a unified entity. Perhaps their idea of "God" is the quiet reliability of the principles in our Universe. As time passes we find this includes ethics with our fellow man also. We do not presume that what we may think of as "consciousness" in that entity is like ours. The effects of consciousness are largely a matter of timing in our neurons and language. What is the timing of the principles of the universe? We only know a little. Do we have the humility and the faith to trust how things are? Our goals are the same. The promotion of ethics and hope. God should not be conceived in such a way as to oppress and control mankind, individually or in groups. It puts man, and God, under the control of a few religious experts, with untestable assertions about God. We do not perceive ourselves to be intrinsically worthless as the character Satan proposed in the book of Job. Let God's creation speak for him, and do not allow what are really traditions of man to destroy our view of his true nature.
Al