Posted by Joseph Malik [JosephMalik] on April 03, 1999 at 08:11:37 {Ed9c7782HMwtN58YgBC6kwPNhmZ1io}:
In Reply to: ****JOSEPH; INCORRUPTIBLE SURPRISE posted by Gary on April 03, 1999 at 02:47:21:
>>Why do you insist upon linking my ideas with that the WTS? The WTS don't think that the 144,000 will be IN THE FLESH ON THE EARTH. Yet that is fundamental to my view here.
Gary,
I have some painting and work around here to do and this will go on for some time but had time for this. The small changes you make to your doctrine do not conceal the errors upon what which they were founded. Most are still Watchtower false doctrines.
>>As far as the millions who survive Armageddon question goes, I thought I addressed it as well as I could.
>>But specifically, all I have to do is give you why I believe it. You don't have to believe it.
No you did not address the question but you talked and talked and never established any evidence to support your conclusions. Yet you do more than that. Perhaps you do not notice it but I do. Look at the verses in question the ones that deal not only with the great crowd but also with the 144,000:
How did such a great multitude described here get into this kingdom? Do they simply walk in as you teach? Who else is there before the throne and before the Lamb and how did they get in?
7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Yes, how did the 144,000 sealed get to be in with this great multitude? John does not say they were resurrected does he? He does not give this detail in any of these texts. But if the apostles and men like Timothy, Barnabas, Titus and others identified in scripture as faithful servants of our Lord are part of this 144,000 is there some other way for them to get together other than resurrection? We should know already that most or the sealed ones making up the 144,000 are to be resurrected and only the remaining ones alive when He comes will be changed even if John does not say it. All of them are before the throne and all of them are together in the same place.
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Here we have the 144,000 and the great crowd dwelling on the earth (not witnesses or disciples as the WT teaches) together again. And what is this great crowd that washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb since He selected them to be there saying with such a loud voice? Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
The judgement does not come later as you teach but the judgement was there and then, and this judgement was for them. They got into this kingdom the same way the 144,000 got into it, by means of resurrection since flesh and blood cannot inherit Gods kingdom. We should have known this already the same way we knew the 144,000 must be raise even if John does not say it. And this great crowd is not limited to or restricted to a single period in history. They represent every nation and kinderd and tounge and people. They came from the sea, death and hell, wherever such people are found by Christ. You see this is everyone that will be in this kingdom be they saint or sheep. There is no one else found in it and no one to be raised later in time.
So Gary you did not address the question, you simply talked and talked and told me what you think. But you did not produce scriptural evidence for
your views and you cannot do it as the scriptures reject your conclusions and the Watchtower views they support even if you did alter them a bit.
Joseph