Posted by AF [AF] on March 31, 1999 at 11:08:49 {ohFII14TUctWYktmF7cQdaOt1gg/Zk}:
In Reply to: ***For you Drake! posted by Godfroi on March 30, 1999 at 20:20:06:
: So, if we believers are to keep believing, where did the water come from?
That's your problem not mine. In any case, the Bible is clear: the "waters above the expanse" refer to the clouds (Psalm 148:4). It's a massive twisting of Genesis to infer a "water canopy", whether liquid or vapor, from expressions about "waters above the expanse". Most fundies don't even have a proper understanding of what the "expanse" is, and claim it's the atmosphere. All it means is "the sky" -- the smooth, really big expanse of blue you see when you look up on a clear day, which seems to cover the world from horizon to horizon. Genesis is clear about this, too: "Let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens." (Gen. 1:20)
: What massive amount of water quick froze herds of mammoth who had undigested tropical plants in their stomachs, in Siberia no less?
Look at what you've written and then think: can liquid water quick freeze anything? Of course not. All it can do is cool things to near freezing. Invoking salty ocean water does no good, since the freezing point of normal ocean water, at about 28 deg F, is still above that of mammal tissues.
Furthermore, despite what I've written on this subject and the extensive references I've given, you still don't accept that this entire notion of "enormous herds of quick-frozen mammoths" is nothing but a late-19th century exaggeration of field reports by one eccentric geologist (Henry Howorth) who had never even been there. It was further exaggerated in the 1920s by the 7th-Day Adventist crackpot and apologist, the self-taught "geologist" George McReady Price, whose ideas were further popularized after 1961 by the current top-of-the-crackpot heap, Henry Morris of the Institute for Creation Research. After that the Watchtower Society jumped on the heap and began publishing the nonsense of these men.
Go to Osarsif's webpage (link given above) and read my extensive quotes from the Smithsonian field report about the 1903 Berezovka mammoth. You'll find that it was far from quick-frozen -- indeed, the innards were largely rotted away before freezing. There were no tropical plants in its stomach -- indeed, the vegetation in its mouth and stomach is quite representative of Northern forest and semi-tundra areas. You probably thought that buttercups, which the Watchtower Society has claimed as positive proof, were restricted to temperate regions, but that's not so -- they're a normal part of vegetation at the southern edge of Canada's tundra regions. So, far from confirming Howorth's and the "flood geologist's" legends, this mammoth completely disproves them.
I suggest that you educate yourself before commenting further.
AF