Posted by Ginny Tosken on March 21, 1999 at 20:55:27 {MWyyC89S7ssMg}:
In Reply to: *Just Thinking posted by Jaypeeto on March 21, 1999 at 14:24:08:
In Christian theology, mankind sold himself into sin, both in the "beginning" as well as our own individual acts. Our God foresaw that this would happen, together with all it's attendant ills and woes.
If I am a slave of sin and can't help sinning, how am I selling myself? If I am selling myself, what do I get in the bargain?
If God foresaw all this ill and woe, why didn't he stop it?
The God of Christianity,
is both
a) just and
b)
merciful
Is it just or merciful to punish children, grandchildren, ad infinitum for the errors of parents?
This triune God of traditional Christianity both FORESAW man's sins and INTENDED, via the "word" to unite with the nature of humanity to restore humanity to justice and holiness through
So, you believe in predestination?
a) incarnation into our very essence, wedding our nature to his own and
b) actually experiencing within himself through this
incarnation the pains and agonies which sin brings upon us, without being "guilty" of sin himself and in this way, being infinite deity united to finite man,
c) redeeming/ransoming man from eternal sin.
What does this mean? My point is that there is all this talk about redeeming and ransoming. Within this metaphor, there is someone who is a captive, a price which is paid, and someone who receives the payment. I would simply like to know who these three are.
As far as sacrifice, I can't see that the Jewish idea of sacrifice is in any way more noble than that of other cultures.
Some interesting information about Jewish sacrifices can be found at this web
site:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/qorbanot.htm
Here are some parts I found interesting:
Were sacrifices a symbol of the savior to come?
Not according to Judaism. That is a Christian teaching that has no basis in Jewish
thought. Jews don't believe in a savior, and don't believe that sacrifice has anything to do with a savior or mashiach.
Quite the contrary, some would say that the original institution of sacrifice had more to do with Judaism's past than with its future. Maimonides suggested that the entire sacrificial cult in Judaism was ordained as an accommodation to man's primitive desires; but since it was instituted, it is a permanent part of our required worship of God.
Sacrifice is an ancient and universal human expression of religion. Sacrifice existed among the Hebrews long before the giving of the Torah. When the laws of sacrifice were laid down in the Torah, the pre-existence of a system of sacrificial offering was understood, and sacrificial terminology was used without any explanation. The Torah, rather than creating the institution of sacrifice, carefully circumscribes and limits the practice, permitting it only in certain places, at certain times, in certain manners, by certain people, and for certain purposes. Maimonides suggests that these limitations are designed to wean a primitive people away from the debased rites of their idolatrous neighbors.
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Basically, I do not understand the need for a sacrifice. If my son disobeys me, I do not punish him, his children, and his grandchildren for his rebellion. I do not interpret his disobedience as a sign that he is ungrateful for the food, clothing, and shelter I provide for him. Nor do I interpret it as a sign that he wishes to usurp my authority. I see him for what he is -- a child. If he does not understand why I made a certain rule, I will explain why. I recognize his need for more autonomy and independence as he grows. I do not expect him to get down on his knees and grovel before me daily, thanking me for giving birth to him. I do not want him to obey me because he fears me or to have blind faith and trust in me.
And silly as it seems, I can't help thinking that a god would have at least as much sense as I do.
Ginny