Posted by Drake, Jr. on March 21, 1999 at 12:40:24 {MW9hQZt3yw8IU}:
In Reply to: **THE MANNER OF HIS COMING... posted by WW on March 21, 1999 at 08:04:58:
Dear WW,
Here you bring out probably the most significant issue yet regarding one aspect of the second coming and that is who all would witness this:
>>So, what we can discern is that the time of his arrival will be a complete surprise but that the actual advent will be OBVIOUS to all! (verse 30)>>
This must be reconsidered.
Key points are that the Messiah would come and appear to his disciples, and not the whole world, at least not at first. He comes as a theif.
Thus the references to "every eye will see him" and all the "tribes of the earth" would see him and beat themselves in lamentation, but be put into context.
With that in mind, it seems to me that this has to be interpreted as representing these tribes that are WITHIN THE ARRANGEMENT of pre-gathered ones who were expecting the Messiah to appear.
This is not difficult, however, since upon checking the two references to this, it specifically mentions "tribes of the EARTH". Or the "inhabited EARTH."
We know from other scriptures, that this could directly represent those within Jehovah's arrangement, since the "Earth" is representative of god's arrangement, the Bible, etc.
Note that the 666-BEAST comes from the "sea" and the Lamb-Dragon beast "comes out of the EARTH". That is significant. The Earth represents Jehovah's stable arrangement of those "recognized" by him as being alive.
Other examples in scripture, as you know, speak of those who are actually "dead" if they have not been enlightened or "resurrected" to the light of understanding God's word.
Since Jesus clearly appears privately and to his disciples when he first appears, these who would see him, these "tribes of the EARTH" must be specifically, those who are aware of who the Messiah is, is expecting him and observe the "sign of the son of man coming in the clouds."
This actually happened, but in front of the whole world, but those who were expecting him.
As far as "every eye could see him" goes, it appears this is related somewhat to those "eagles" where it refers to "where the eagles are, there the corpse will be."
This "corpse" unfortunately, represents the spiritually dead state of the Messiah during his "prodigal son" rebellion stage during which time he is spiritually dead. Those observing him, those tribes of the "earth" who are chosen to observe this, of course, will see this condition in distress. Thus they have reason to "beat themselves in lamentation" over the Messiah because of his death-like condition.
But the reference to "every eye will see him" now tends to relate to the Messiah, at some point, though not known or openly presenting himself as the Messiah, appearing in "public" in some way, so that those who are observing him during this period would have public access to him.
Thus "every eye would see him" of those who know who he is, would be able to see him, the actual body of the Messiah, and this would be afforded by the Messiah making some form of a public appearance.
In this modern age, that not that complex. It is done by anyone who appears on stage or television, or ultimately, who uploads their image on the internet.
So with a little modification, in the context of everything we expect regarding his coming, it would seem as though, this "beating themselves in lamentation" is the result of viewing the Messiah during this death-like state, and that person being available at some point for "every eye to see him" by being a public figure,that is, in the reality, an entertainer who appears on stage, for instance.
Those those of the "tribes of the earth" who knew who the Messiah was, could view him by simply buying a ticket to some show where he was performing, or catching one of his television appearances, or of late, viewing his image via an upload on the internet. Thus virtually all those of the "tribes of the earth", that is, those on the INSIDE of this arrangement, part of the "eagles" class who were expecting the Messiah and monitoring the Messiah during the period of the sun and moon's darkness, would have a chance to view his image. But when they did, it would be bad news and shame, since the Messiah at this time would be observed in a state of sinfulness and in a state of spiritual death. This is why they beat themselves in lamentation.
Furthermore, at the instigation of the kingship as well, those who observed, after great joy and happiness at the setting up of the kingdom, the newly crowned Messiah would again be abandoned by Jehovah and have to undergo further "discipline" and hardship and thus, again, it was fulfilled that upon seeing the Messiah, those beat themselves in lamentation, for the Messiah was again to be abandoned and crushed.
Bottom line, all considered, it seems we must consider that those who see him, that is, all the "tribes of the EARTH" is a specific reference to those within that arrangement who would recognize the Messiah, and the reference to "every eye seeing him" is some way the scriptures communicate that although the Messiah himself did not know who he was, others would be monitoring him and to facilitate them being able to look upon him, he would at some time be in a public-access profession or in some other means afford those who did want to look upon him an opportunity to do so in a setting that did not compromise who they were.
What could be more perfect than if this person were an intertainer? So his image and/or person at various points did have public access to facilitate this phase of the second coming. And apparently, that is what all the beating in lamentation" was about.
That is not to say, however, that those references in scripture about the REVELATOIN of the son of man, at some later time, after the inspection, etc. would not become known more broadly. But this does not seem to include those who would recognize him and know what is going on sufficiently to "beat themselves in lamentation" upon observing him.
That's the way it looks in direct fulfillment for the moment. Perhaps upon further consideration this will become clearer.
But we know this for sure. Now 50-foot Jesus coming in the clouds calling his anointed ones up to heaven wherein the whole world will see him when he arrives is going to happen. You can't appear before billions of people and then pretend you're coming in secret as a thief. All the subtle aspects of the second coming details must be meticulously worked out and special meanings applied where indicated.
If you come up with any more questions or seeming contradictions, please share them with us. I'm sure your thoughts are quite in line with many the questions many of us must have.
Thanks..
Drake, Jr.