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The Liberal Lie!
Full Gun Control to cost $85 Million

 
HOUSE OF COMMONS OF CANADA
35th PARLIAMENT, 1st SESSION
EVIDENCE
Standing Committee on JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS
Chair: Warren Allmand
Meeting No. 105
Monday, April 24, 1995

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ORDER OF THE DAY:
Bill C-68, An Act respecting firearms and other weapons
 
APPEARING:
The Honourable Allan Rock, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.
The Chair: Good. Do all members of the committee have the document?

Proceed, Minister.

Mr. Rock: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The first thing we do on the first and second pages is set out the assumptions we've used for the purposes of this summary. We assume, for example, as fact, in terms of firearm licences, that the number of current firearm owners to be licensed is 3 million. We know that there are 1 million firearms acquisition certificates in place at present. There are approximately 2 million owners without firearms acquisition certificates in Canada. Over the next five years, approximately 1 million firearms owners will apply for firearms licences with acquisition privileges equivalent to the number of FACs currently being issued for the same purpose. Over the next five years, about 2 million firearms owners currently without FACs will apply for licences without acquisition privileges at a pace or a rate that is set out on the first page.

With respect to registration certificates, we assume that the number of currently owned firearms pre-registered is about 7 million, of which 1.2 million are restricted firearms, mostly handguns, and 5.8 million are non-restricted, the long arms. Three million firearms owners will register their currently owned firearms starting in 1998, at about 20% each year over the five-year compliance term.

On the third page, we set out the time lines. The committee will see that in 1995 Parliament may conclude its consideration of Bill C-68. On the assumption that it's enacted, in 1996 the process of licensing will begin. By the end of 2000, the registration of firearms owners through licensing will be completed. In 1998 the registration of the firearms themselves will begin, a process that will be completed by the end of 2002. On page 4, we set out the costs that are in place at present. In other words, just to run the present system of firearms acquisition certificates and the registration system for restricted firearms, the present system would cost $60 million over the next five years, or about $12 million a year. This is money that would be spent if we did nothing. It's already committed. It's money spent by, among others, the RCMP for the registration of handguns and other purposes.

Revenues would be anticipated over the next five years, based on fees for the FACs and for renewing FACs. Those would total about $38 million. There would be a net deficit, as there has been in the past, of $27 million over the next five years, or a net deficit of about $5.4 million a year. That's what's happening at present with the firearms regime in place now in Canada.

On page 5, we set out the incremental cost of establishing a registration system over the next five years. You'll see it totals $85 million. It's broken down into a number of elements, including system development and implementation, which total about $48.8 million. This is money that will be spent for the design, development and implementation of program management, business analysis and process re-engineering to provide hardware and software to licence owners and registered firearms. It
will involve upgrading the firearms acquisition certificate system and the restricted weapons registration system and migrating them to the Canadian firearms registration system. It'll involve initial data entry for 2 million new firearms licences and the registration of firearms commencing in 1998.  It'll also involve additional moneys to the provinces, some $17.9 million over the next five years, to defray additional costs that they will incur in connection with the new system. RCMP will spend money linking the registration system to CPIC so police officers can have access to this information in the car as needed. Customs, with registration at borders, will spend $14.2 million for systems over the next five years. That is the cost of establishing the registration system. There are other costs associated with Bill C-68 in general. They are set forth in the second half on page 5. They include public education....

May I stop there for a moment.

One of the key elements of this bill is deterrent sentencing for crime with guns. General deterrence works only with awareness of the consequences. I think the deterrent sentences in Bill C-68 will succeed only if we make a real effort to let people know what the consequence is if they pick up a gun for the purpose of committing a crime.  Public education also means enabling firearms owners to have a clear understanding of their obligations with respect to safe storage. One of the conclusions to which
coroner Anne-Marie David came after an inquest in Quebec this year into deaths by firearms was that the requirements for safe storage are not sufficiently understood or enforced. It's going to be necessary for us to bring that message home. With registration we'll be able to do it far more efficiently by speaking directly to the firearms owners. But it is an investment that will pay dividends.

The training of police and others with respect to the new law, policy development, and other substantive issues will arise on such matters as revisions to the safety course dealing with both long arms and handguns, shooting club standards, rules for collectors, meeting the concerns of aboriginal communities and the development of regulations, research and assessment to ensure that the control initiative is successful and is evaluated.

These are the expenditures. They total, between registration and other costs, $118 million over the next five years, from which we anticipate revenue of $116 million. The net deficit, which has been over $5 million per year in the current operation, will drop to under $500,000 per year in the coming five years on this approach.

So far as the revenues are concerned, I invite the attention of the committee to page 6 of this summary, where we set out the proposed fees for licences, and to page 7, the proposed fees for registration certificates. So far as licensing of owners is concerned, the committee will note that the basis on which we're working is that the licensing of owners will commence in January of 1996. The cost will be between zero and $10 per owner in the first year. It will increase incrementally each year until the fifth year, when it will arrive at the full total of $60. So there'll be incentives for early compliance. This is for people
who are registering without the intention to acquire, just to identify themselves as owners so they can be licensed.

The renewal fees for the licences, every five years, will be $60. For those who use firearms for sustenance purposes, there will be no fees. On the subject of fees between zero and $10, I should tell you that I have not yet obtained a decision by cabinet on the question of whether we will be able to have a zero fee or whether it's going to be $10. I will have to have conversations with my colleagues at Treasury Board and Finance before I'll be in a position to make a recommendation to cabinet. But that is
the range in this package for the licensing of firearms owners in the initial year of the introduction of this system.

On page 7, we set out the proposed fees for the registration of the firearms themselves, which will commence in January 1998. Again, in the first year it could be zero up to $10 for the first 10 firearms, then increasing incrementally over the five years to a maximum of $18 for the first 10 firearms by the year 2002.

If you're registering a newly acquired firearm at a dealer, we anticipate a charge of $15 per non-restricted firearm - those are the long arms - and a fee of $60 per restricted firearm effective next January, to be reduced to $30 in January 1998 when the new software will be available for the registration of all firearms.

On that point, may I just pause to say that at the moment the best estimate of the cost to register a handgun is about $82 per handgun. At the moment there's no cost. There's no charge to the owner for that registration. That program operates at an enormous deficit and police forces across the country are put to expense that is not recovered. One of the real concerns police have expressed to me, both chiefs and officers, is that any program of firearm control not impose that kind of burden on police budgets. They need the police officers in the cars and on the streets.

Commencing next January, we will introduce a fee of $60 for the first time for those who register handguns. This is still $22 short of the actual cost. That'll drop to $30 in January of 1998, when the new systems will be in place and we will have the economies of the new information technology that will be part of this registration system.

On page 8, we've set forth the comparative costs of licensing and registration. For those who look at the $60 renewal fee for the licence every five years and wonder whether it's a fair amount, we invite them to consider what it costs to register an automobile in Ottawa or to get a driver's license, $50 for 5 years in Ontario, or that it costs $57 to register a boat in Canada, or that in Saskatoon it costs you $57 to register a car. In Calgary a dog licence costs $36.50 per year.

The point is that I believe these figures, while they allow for cost recovery, are not unreasonable. They permit a system to be put in place to achieve important societal goals without imposing unduly on the firearm's owner. Let it not be said that cost is an argument against establishing a system that can achieve so much for our society.

Over five years, $85 million to establish a registration system. Is it worth it?

REALITY: The current cost is expected to climb well beyond
ONE BILLION DOLLARS!
400 TIMES THE ORIGINAL LYING, DECEITFUL, PRESENTATION.
The WORST thing is:
THEY HAVEN'T STOPPED  SPENDING YET!!