Larry
(1)
Brendan
Chris
(2)
Blake
Jim
Matt
(3)
Jon
Neal
Drew
(3)
Issues Page
Vote to overturn the initial ruling that Meatball should not be in the league.
STATED ISSUE:
FINAL RULING:
The League Upholds the initial ruling that Meatball should not be in the league.
VOTING TALLY:
"Yes" = a vote in favor of the proposal
"No" = a vote not in favor of the proposal
"Impartial" = a voiced indecision on the proposal (Uncounted towards final percentage of votes entered)
"No Vote" = an unvoiced indecision on the proposal (Uncounted towards final percentage of votes entered)
YES:
NO:
IMPARTIAL:
NO VOTE:
Percentage to Overturn = 50% (3/6)
ISSUE RAISED BY:
JON
INITIAL POST:
petition for Meatball
Feb 26 10:25pm 
I would like to start a petition to allow meatball to join the league. I know he wants to do the league but Blake does not wish to grant him admission. All he asks for is fair treatment from Blake on his ideas and such.

Please post either way.
POSTS ARGUING IN FAVOR OF OVERTURN:
Mr. Ball
Feb 27 7:25pm 
because I love meatball.
Jon
Neal
Mr. Ball (part deux)
Feb 27 7:31pm 
How can anyone not vote for someone as entertaining as matthew lombardi. I love his posts, i love his rants, i love his competitiveness, and i love how frustrating he is to communicate with. Sure he may have some literacy issues that will interfere with his following of the rules but you just have to sit him down and explain things to him using diagrams and such. There are so many rediculous punishments for breaking simple rules in this league anyway so he will suffer if he breaks them and we will all benefit from his mental struggles.
POSTS ARGUING AGAINST THE OVERTURN:
BLAKE
I am willing to put this to a vote
Feb 27 2:52am 
However I am going to say my piece and hopefully everyone will weigh my point of view in their decision.

First the Pros of Meatball:

Meatball is a hardnosed fantasy participant, one of the finest this league could have...this much I know.

Meatball (whether he means to be or not) is a clown, and brings a lot of humor to the league for his outbursts and often irrational behavior. Furthermore, his point of view often clashes with mine creating many enjoyable, vocal confrontations between me and him...

He is also very good friends with Jon, and was the original connection between Jon and the rest of us who all regularly hang out together (although after Jon being in several of the leagues, I think we are all comfortable with each other by now).

Fellas, everyone, I understand that Meatball would be a great addition to the league. HOWEVER, these are reasons why I feel THE FIRST RUN THROUGH of the league would be better served with Meatball in it

THE CONS OF MEATBALL:

1.) The biggest problem that I am trying to avoid with anyone, not just Meatball, is avoiding someone who rebels against the rules (those currently in place, as well as future ones to come) which are placed to make the league run smoother because of its extra features. Now, out of everyone in this league, Meatball is the only person that has a history of not following these self imposed rules.

During last years football season Neal implemented a rule that said no players could be added on Sunday or Monday so that all people would have a fair shot at aquiring who they wished. However (to be fair to Meatball) over the first three weeks, several managers (including myself) were unaware that the rule had been in place, and so it was not followed right away. HOWEVER, it took Meatball an additional 3 weeks after everyone else had begun following the rules for Meatball to get it straight. And how exactly did Meatball get it straight?

Well, he broke the rule and added a player that I had placed a waiver for (as stated by a post that Neal had given as commissioner). That night, I posted a short, simple post citing Neals post, and asking Meatball to drop the player so that I may pick him up. Had Meatball decided to abide by the rule then there would have been no issue. Instead, Meatball disregarded my post and refused to drop the player. I had to spend the next 3 days essentially yelling at Meatball through posts, trying to tell him he was wrong.

The reason this was such a problem for me was a.) The rules were stated quite clearly, and it still took Meatball 6 weeks (3 additional weeks after everyone else got the hint) to conform. FURTHERMORE b.) Who exactly is going to have to make Meatball follow the rules when he causes a problem? It will have to be me, and I am not willing to go through what I went through every time Meatball fails to break a rule just because it is me who is asking him to follow it.

2.) On a much broader scale, Meatball has shown an inability to comprehend exactly what the league is trying to accomplish. During the last football league, I tried to explain to Meatball (as well as others) one of the flaws that I saw with the league. This flaw could be characterized as something that the current baseball league aimed to avoid (Stagnent trades, and roster space). I explained this to Meatball (as well as others) one thousand times over, however Meatball simply refused to listen.

Now, I will state right here that Meatball was not alone in his point of view, nor should you believe that my problem with Meatball boils down to the fact that "he doesn't think like I do" or "he won't say yes to everyone of my suggestions." This is not what I am trying to portray to you, so please do not read it this way. What I am saying is that, if that suggestion in football was trying to create a league exactly like this one, and he refused to change the league like this one, how can I be certain that when a vote is presented, Meatball will view the "right choice" with the mindset that is a positive for the league. (Mind you, all changes to the league are voted on, so everyones vote counts equally).

Now, again, the point of emphasis is not that me and Meatball disagreed, because we disagree on a lot of things, but that Meatball disagreed about the very structure of what this league AIMS to be. Also, let me state here that this is probably the smallest argument for Meatballs non-inclusion, since a few guys who I do not view the same as Meatball held a similar viewpoint. It is this in combination with the other forceable issue that all combine into one giant hesitation for letting Meatball in.

3.) Thirdly, and finally...here is the kicker folks...I ALREADY ASKED MEATBALL TO BE IN THE LEAGUE A FEW MONTHS AGO, AND HE SAID 'NO.' Meatball had previously decided not to do my league during the destruction of the last league. His reasoning (again, something to take note of) was erroneous in that he felt I could not be trusted and was DEFENDING HIM in an argument he was having with Jim. Meatball felt that my motives were, in a sense "unpure" and that is why he claims he did not want to be in the league. However, I let Meatball cool down and around the time I was asking everyone to be in the league, I asked him. He said he did not want to be in the league because "I was the commissioner and the league would not be fun with me as commissioner." I EVEN went so far as trying to reassure him that this would not be the case, however, he would not hear it, and still refused.

Do you think this was the only time Meatball refused my invitation? Oh no...

A short while after, when I was creating the website, I asked again in Meatball would be in the league. I told him to think it over and send me an email. Meatball did send me an email, but it was not the confirmation that I had asked...it was a simple question, "Can we have the draft at home or something?" (paraphrased). That was all it essentially read. I replied to him, "Meatball, Brendan is in Ireland, but I will ask everyone if they can come home. (caps added) IN THE MEAN TIME WHY DON'T YOU SEND ME YOUR TEAM NAME, TEAM COLOR, AND TEAM LOGO." I told him to look on the website to see what I meant. This was, again, another invitation for Meatball to be in the league. Many of you may have noticed that Meatball was on the website for a while.

However, I waited a week, and asked again through AIM...no response...I waited and waited and waited, and never recieved any Team Name, Team Color, Team Logo, nor even an email or IM saying he did or did not get a response from me.

This was the final straw for me because it brought to light all of the things that I feared most about having meatball in the league. He would not commit to something that I asked of him. He could not follow a simple direction. He was difficult to contact. And he had no remorse over all of this.


Now, what I ask you all PLEASE to take into consideration is one important difference. The difference is that it will be ME who has to deal with Meatball for all of these extra circumstances. I have made the decision, after putting all of my hardwork into this league, that having Meatball in it during its first run might be very risky. His vocalness, and his inability to follow directions could piss off, not just me, but many other people (as we know, he was very involved in the last two major altercations in both the fantasy baseball and football leagues). I already told Meatball that if this first league runs smoothly, I would be more than happy to invite him into the second one, since we would have taken the time to know what works and what doesn't.


I will end with one sort of appendix for the aftermath of this post, since I have already made my points. And that is, do not think I am taking enjoyment in not letting Meatball in. I find it childish, and I really wish I did not have to do it. I also wish I could have let Matt's friend in when he wanted to do it, and I wish I could have let a few of my friends up at school when they asked to be in. But I have said no to all of them because this is something new and unpredictable. I realize that I take this more personally then you all, but it is I who have put in all of the days, weeks, and months to getting the legaue to where it is now. I hope I never have to use that line again, because I hope I don't have to plead for anyone to consider my special circumstances. I am hoping that you can all realize the things for yourself. And I am hoping that, because you realized all of the things mentioned above, that you will honor my decision to (sadly) prevent Meatball from entering into the league.
The vote of "Yes' was edited from this post because it was included with reasoning to overturn.  The original post began with, "I vote YES..."
Jim
my point of view
Feb 27 9:13am 
Blake, please tell me if this is the wrong way to do things but from the sounds of it, we have 2 days to say our piece regarging the issue (in this case, ball), and then 5 days to vote. If that is the case, here is my 2 cents. If that is not the case, please disregard the next few sentences/paragraphs, and tell me just to vote.

Blake did a good job giving pros and cons regarding ball. My personal opinion is that there are 3 kinds of people in this league: people that try hard and are on here all the time (me, chris, blake, others), people who know about sports but dont put in 100% (my brother), and people who try hard and do so at a cost of doing business (meatball).

I love his competitiveness, but in a league like this where there are 974 rules and regulations in place about how and when to do things, it might be tough to have a league member that will make up an additional 35 rules because he doesnt like blake's rules (excuse the 2 exaggerations).

It would be one thing if Ball actually paid attention to that half year fake league thing so we would know his stance on all these rules (as a point of info, I have questioned blake on 10-15 different rules/policies in this league in the last 2 months, so he knows exactly where I stand), but since ball did not participate, we have no idea how he is going to react to the regulations put forth. who is to say that if he (or any of us for that matter) violates one of those rules that gets him locked or suspended from an activity (or whatever those strict punishments are), that he will not just give up at that point.

those are my 2 cents take them for what they are worth. it sounded like a lot of negatives, but the fact that ball is the competitor that he is is positive enough for me to go against all those negatives.
ISSUE RAISED BY:
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