6) If the authors of the
New Testament believed in sola Scriptura, why did they sometimes draw on
oral Tradition as authoritative and as God’s Word (Matt 2:23; 23:2; 1 Cor 10:4; 1 Pet 3:19; Jude 9, 14 15)?
The argument is brilliantly disingenuous, truly
the work of a master at deception.
Its not possible Mr. Ray or other Catholic apologists thought this one up, the source must be Satan himself, the original snake.
The argument equivocates, defining "Word of Man" as "Word of
God" and then points to writing common literature and concludes....the
author didn't believe in sola scriptura.
Of course he didn't, but that is an irrelevant thesis, a red herring.
When a man draws upon oral tradition and authors a book its NOT the Word of God. So pointing to that is
irrelevant to sola scriptura. The man obviously is not practicing sola
scriptura.
But the Bible is written by God, not man. So His use of oral tradition, Greek
philosophers, or anything extrabiblical, doesn't
indicate anything about the human instrument's beliefs.
When God utilizes items in a man's experience, including any philosophical or
religious teaching he knows, and then inspires the writer to use that material
to communicate an idea, it does not indicate anything about the human writer's
beliefs.....God is writing scripture, period!
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the
scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not
in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake
as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration
of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for
instruction in righteousness:
These men didn't privately interpret oral tradition in their literary works.
God caused them to use things they knew, to write His Word.
A good illustration of this is Paul's use of philosophers. Even Mr. Ray
wouldn't consider quoting such material indicates it has authority:
Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of
your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as
we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like
unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
God caused Paul to remember these words, and He worked them into a thought He wanted Paul to
communicate. The poet's words have no authority whatsoever. Paul's use does
not indicate he believes God's Word + Greek Poets is necessary to the faith.
The poet's words only become the Word of God when God writes them in the Bible.
The book Paul quoted from remains just a human work and it does not follow
anything else in that book is true. It could all be false.
Addendum
I have pointed out God's use of extrabilical material
does not affect the Principle God's Word has Supreme Authority (sola
scriptura).
God's use of the Bible writer's grammar and syntax, or anything extrabiblical he knows, is irrelevant to whether God's Word
has supreme authority:
Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither
shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD
your God which I command you.
God insists there be a clear divide separating His commands from those of men,
that His Word's Authority not be diminished one iota by confusing it that of
men.
That being reaffirmed, lets we review the proposed examples of "oral
tradition" in the New Testament, including those suggested by Robert Sungenis and other Catholic apologists, to discover if such
really are extrabiblical, or implicit revelation in
Scripture.
1) God's Law came "through angels". "Acts 7:53
"received the law by the disposition of angels"; Galatians 3:19
"ordained by angels"; (Acts 7:53; Galatians 3:19; Hebrews 2:2) and
Robert Sungenis alleges "there is no place in
the entire Old Testament which teaches the Mosaic Covenant was given through
angels."-Not By Scripture Alone (Queenship
Publishing Co., Santa Barbara CA, 1197), p.178
Deuteronomy 33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from
his right hand went a fiery law for them.
From God's "right hand". A "Right hand" actualizes thought,
enforces intent. God has thousands of these powerful beings, they are like
"His right hand", at the ready:
Judges 5: 20 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against
Sisera.
lxx ek
dexiwn autou aggeloi met autou
KJV Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden
candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and
the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the
seven churches.
In the following, the idea is Christ is above the angels at God's right hand:
KJV Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my
right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
KJV 1 Peter 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the
right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto
him.
God's ministering spirits are His right hand, they
bring about God's commands. Hence it is implicit in Deuteronomy 33:2 what the
LXX Greek implies, the law came through angels.
2)The Old Testament doesn't mention Jannes and Jambres.
Both names are found in the Palestinian Targum of Exod 7:11f.: ‘And Pharaoh also
called the wise men and sorcerers, and they also, Jannes
and Jambres, the sorcerers who were in Egypt, did likewise
with their magical charms. And every man threw his staff and they became
basilisks, and immediately they were changed to become as they were at first,
and the staff of Aaron swallowed up their staffs.’
Jewish Oral Tradition has "Johana and Mamre said to Moses, ‘Wouldst thou carry straw to Hafaraim?"-Talmud, Menachoth
85a (Soncino Talmud, Judaica
Press, in Judaic Classics Library (Davka 2001).
The spelling difference indicates Paul got it from the Targums,
not Jewish oral tradition.
Probably ancient interpreters extrapolated from the groups opposed to Moses
(wise men and sorcerers), the character of their leaders, a liar and rebel,
both satanically energized, Jannes and Jambres, that is the meaning conveyed by these symbols.
The names Ἰάννης and Ἰαμβρῆς are those of the two Egyptian sorcerers who
opposed Moses before Pharaoh. Ἰάννης is said to be Johana Graecised, possibly from
the verb ‘anah, to contradict (Thackeray*, 221). In place of Ἰαμβρῆς some of the Latin versions have Mambres, which appears in some Gk..
MSS as Μαμβρῆς.
The Latin form may be equivalent to Mamrey, from marah, to rebel (Thackeray*, 220), and thus be the correct
representation of the original Semitic form.-
Marshall, I. H., & Towner, P. H. (2004). A critical and exegetical
commentary on the Pastoral Epistles (778). London; New York: T&T Clark
International.
In light of the above we can discern Paul's use of these names was to convey
the character of those opposed to the truth in his day:
2 Timothy 3:8-9 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth:
men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed
no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
They opposed the truth via lies and demonic power. The magicians eventually saw
the folly of their efforts as did all who became aware of these events:
Exodus 8:19 Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God:
and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD
had said.
Exodus 9:16 And in very deed for this cause have I
raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and
that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.
3) Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called
Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall
be called a Nazarene.
God's inerrant word identifies this came from "the prophets" plural,
not Jewish oral tradition.
Plural "prophets" indicates its NOT a
quote, it was spoken ("taught") by the prophets, the Messiah would be
despised, hence in Matthew's culture, it was equivalent to being "called a
Nazarene":
John 1:46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of
Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
"The OT prophecies concerning the despising
and reviling of the Messiah correlate with Matthew 2:23, which should be
translated “and he [Joseph] came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that what
was spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled, because he would be called
a Nazarene.” The prophecy that Jesus would be scorned and ridiculed was
fulfilled when some of his contemporaries called him a Nazarene, from the
despised town of Nazareth (Jn 1:46; cf. Mt 13:54; Mk
6:2, 3; Lk 4:22)."- Elwell,
W. A., & Beitzel, B. J. (1988). Baker
Encyclopedia of the Bible Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Book House.
4) Matthew 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat
This seat is not oral tradition, it existed. According
to the Biblical Archaeologist, Moses' Seat was a literal place where the
scribes and Pharisees read or exposited the Word of God:
Seating Arrangements
In contrast with the temple building, the synagogue was a place inside which
one assembled for prayer and study. The benches for seating have been already
noted. In Matt. 23:2 ff. the scribes and Pharisees are criticized for liking
the best places at dinners, and the front seats of the synagogues, and for
having taken “Moses’ seat.” The front seats were perhaps those nearest the side
of orientation, or, as in some synagogues such as at Dura and Beth Alpha, the
benches on the side of orientation, to the right and left of the niche or apse.
These latter were the seats for the elders, and according to Jewish tradition,
the elders sat with their faces towards the people and their backs to Jerusalem
(Tosephta, Megillah, IV,
21). The “Seat of Moses” was for the most distinguished elder (presbyter) of
the synagogue, and apparently placed closest to the ark. We have seen that
there was such a seat at Dura, probably occupied by Samuel, son of Jedaiah, described both as priest and as elder of the Jews,
who founded the synagogue. “Seats of Moses” have been found in Palestine at Hammath-by-Tiberias and Chorazin, the latter bearing a memorial inscription.-Wright,
G. E., Vol. 7 numbers 1-4: Biblical Archaeologist ( Philadelphia:
American Schools of Oriental Research, 2001, c1944).
5) 1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same
spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and
that Rock was Christ.
"The Old Testament says nothing about any movement of the rock that Moses
struck to provide water for the Israelites (Ex. 17:1-7, Num. 20:2-13), but in
rabbinic Tradition the rock actually followed them on their journey through the
wilderness. -David Palm
Paul listed the spiritual drink enjoyed by Israel
in the desert (Ex. 17:6). According to Paul, Christ was the source of this
supernatural water. Since the incident of the rock which produced water marked
the beginning of Israel’s wilderness wanderings (Ex. 17:1-7) and happened again
near the ending of their wanderings (Num. 20:1-13), Paul concluded that Christ
accompanied them. Christ too was the source of supernatural water for the
Corinthians (cf. John 4:10-14).- Walvoord,
J. F., Zuck, R. B., & Dallas Theological
Seminary. (1983-c1985). The Bible knowledge commentary : An exposition of the scriptures (2:526).
Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.
It doesn't surprise me Rabbinic scholars (Acts 23:6; Gal 1:14) would draw
similar conclusions and post them in different writings only to have some
bumpkin believe one stole the ideas of the other.
6) 1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited
in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight
souls were saved by water.
"In his first epistle Peter tells of Christ’s journey to the netherworld
during which "he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly
did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah" (1 Pet.
3:19). There is a growing scholarly consensus that the interpretive key to this
verse is found in Genesis 6:1-7, in which "the sons of God" cohabited
with "the daughters of men" and produced ghastly offspring. According
to ancient interpretation, these "sons of God" were actually
rebellious angels who sinned by mating with human
women."-David Palm
Scholarly consensus? The Bible is the Word of God, Peter is a apostle (Eph 3:5)and prophet (Acts 11:7ff.) of Jesus, this is revelation,
not a book of Enoch knock off. In context it has nothing to do with fallen
angels and there are no sound reasons to reject what Peter so plainly said in
context:
1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel
preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men
in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan
for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of
the Lord Jesus.
I differ in my exegesis of this from most. I believe it says what it says
naturally, in context. I haven't found any sound reason to reject it and
frankly, I fail to see why anyone would want to.
Yes, few are saved in this life, the road is narrow. It does not follow God
didn't ordain they have another go at it, in the next life.
How else can it be the saved can't be numbered (Rev 7:9-10)? How will all
Israel be saved (Rom 11:26)? How can Christ's sacrifice be for the world and
not us only (1 John 2:2)? Another time I will exposit this....for now...
It suffices we note Stephen Ray and David Palm's confusion....scholarly
consensus indeed....I thought they had tradition that clarifies
obscurity....isn't that what they claim...their vaunted Teaching Authority is
equally clueless.
7) Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he
disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing
accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold,
the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among
them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all
their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Origen [Concerning Principalities, 3.2] thinks Jude 9 is from the apocryphal
book Assumption of Moses, but the
copies we have don't contain this in them. So we don't know.
Some believe 14-15 is from the book
of Enoch.
I believe its revelation. God revealed this. Any parallels are accidental, not
showing dependence at all. There are enough differences between Jude’s words
and the Book of Enoch that can cited against any theory of dependence.
I believe Jude received the information about Moses and Enoch directly from God
and no evidence to the contrary exists. We know God raised Moses, he and Elijah
and spoke with Jesus when the realm of God (kingdom came in power) burst into our
MEROS (Mark 9:1-7 cp 1 Cor 13:10-13).
However, I remind all, even if any of the above were examples of oral tradition
in the New Testament, that would be irrelevant, immaterial and incompetent to
sola scriptura.......as God can utilize anything in a Bible writer's
experience, and mold it into His Word, without affecting the premise God's Word
is Supreme, or as we say it, "only Scripture" (sola scriptura) has
Supreme Authority as only it is God's Word...
We haven't found God's Word anywhere else. Not one "mystery man" or
"Grand Wazoo" in history, whether sitting
in the chair or not, can prove their pontifications are from God by His working
confirming signs and wonders through them.
Hebrews 2:3-4 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which
at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them
that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders,
and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own
will?
__________________
The times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth
all men every where to repent:
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door,
I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.-kjv