Kult ov Bela - Tell me how the tour is going so far.
Martin - Well, I�d like to do it again. It�s been...everyday has been, I think after about four days I thought wow, we�re really great as a unit and I realized two nights ago we were much better two nights ago then we were a week ago and it made me think that in a week�s time we�ll need a license to be on stage. You know? Not that anybody is particularly fantastic individually, but together it�s really, really dangerous there�s a chaos factor, it�s very, very together. And it�s been going really good. It�s a very strange time to be anywhere but home, in American History.
KoB - How are world affairs affecting Pigface, either in the tour itself or in any new endeavors as far as possible future studio recording?
Martin - Well, studio recording I just started thinking about yesterday. But, without any flag waving or whatever, it seems to me that the things that we do and the way that we do them seem more important now than they were six months ago. It�s not trivial throw-away entertainment, it�s a connection between us and the crowd, the crowd from last night and the crowd from tonight and the crowd, you know with people traveling to all of the shows Pigface has always felt like some kind of social glue to me, within an artistic community and within the larger community the people that come to see us. And that glue seems stronger and more important now than a few months ago. And I know that sounds a bit �home sweet home,� you know grandma�s baking the cookies kind of a thing but that�s what it feels like.
KoB - (to Chris) Where is your home right now?
Chris - In Chicago.
KoB - Has it effected you in the same way?
Chris - Yeah, yeah, I think so. I talked with Martin, I think that it�s a time where in the grand scheme of things, I think that the best thing that you can do is do what you�re good at, you know what I mean? And this happens to be happening now, us being on tour, and this is what I�m good at I guess, or I tell myself and this is what I like to do. And I think that if you can connect with people, then go out an connect with people if that is what your forte is. I agree with him.
KoB - Was there ever a consideration of canceling when you first found out about what was going on?
Martin - No, I mean, I think there was a day�s hesitation at some point and I don�t know when that was. And then there was that plane crash in New York, I don�t know, the week we were leaving, and I remember we were on tour with Killing Joke when the Gulf War happened you know so it�s like �oh god,� ya know? But, no it wasn�t a consideration. There�s something very strange going on, people are frightened and I don�t that�s the way to be. I don�t mean you should go ahead, put your hand in the boiler! You know, some fear is good, you know, but people seem to be very frightened, maybe people wanted to hibernate for a while. I don�t know.
KoB - Do you think that this is something that you could blame on the media? The media does have a big role in this so...
Martin - Yeah, I remember watching, I turned off CNN in disgust one day when the accidental plane crash happened. Because they were saying �And we should just point out that it�s so many days since the...� And I thought, you know what that is not productive it�s not even journalism, that�s speculation. They could point out, �And we should point out that the plain crashed facing north or facing Mecca,� you know it�s just extrapolation of...they were ringing a bell that didn�t need to be rung. But, anytime my son says to me, �You made me do this, you made me do that,� I�m all over his stuff and say look you make yourself do things, you know. So if the media is that powerful, especially influencing the kind of free thinkers and mad lunatics that come out to Pigface shows, then that�s a little bit disappointing. Then we need to get our records on CNN, you know, which is like, that doesn�t work for me. �You�ve made it you�re on CNN.�
KoB - I�ve read that you said the political statement of Pigface is what Pigface does. It�s not like you�re screaming it, but everything you are doing is saying it at the same time. Do you think that this is going to change any lyrical content or musical content? Because Pigface is not exactly known for political statement in its music...
Martin - Well...we�re on the radio so I have to be careful because you would�ve just heard about fifteen things that you couldn�t broadcast on the radio. It�s pretty disgusting for me when I see something that an individual has written, like you read the Alec Empire 150 page manifesto about how music should be and let�s all start a riot and it�s all gone horribly wrong, and it�s like �oh, no, no, no actually no, what I meant was could you buy all of my records?� Writing a political statement is a very easy thing, living and working and executing a political goal is a very different thing. And so here we are uniting musicians and artists, well known, not very well known that�s a political statement right there. Working with bands from all over the country welcoming them onto the stage, welcoming members of the audience onto the stage, thinking with our eyes and ears open, on an independently run record label with its own studio, the whole thing is a political act. Now, I�m sorry if one of our songs is called �Suck� you know instead of something political, but hey, you know?...(Stops for drink)
KoB - (thinking he was done with that one) I also wanted to ask both of you...
Martin - And hold on a second, ...Is Rage Against the Machine a political band? No, is it, F-ing, F-ing, Fuck no. It�s a major label band. Who�s singer quit for a solo career, it�s like you could replace every member of Rage Against the Machine with a member of the Go-Go�s and their career path would be exactly the same. You know, they just sang about, Martin Luther King�s got a hard-on, or whatever the hell they were singing about. Just that, they had an idea at the start of the band, the same way the Beatles had an idea, or their management had an idea four guys in suits with mop-tops, ok let�s put a political twist on that. And it�s just marketing.
Chris - I mean, politics in music is a really funny question, you know. I read recently that Bob Dylan never wanted to be taken as a political figure. He was adopted, that�s what the people needed at the time and that�s what they made him and he didn�t like it and he fought against it in the mid-sixties all the way, it wasn�t what he was about, but he was made that way. I think that politics in music is a, I mean if you�ve got something to say and you can say it strongly I think rock music is a great way of saying it. However there is a certain amount of bandwagon jumping and it�s an easiest thing in the world to do. I mean, I know this from Ministry when I was a lyric writer in Ministry and I�d be topic du jour from the Chicago Tribune to write about and would write about it and present it to Al and Paul to present in a song you know, it was really easy, you know, it wasn�t a real challenge for me. And I think that Pigface is more of a microcosm, if you like. The way it works without us having to say anything, you know how it works is a democracy, and how Martin said the shows have been getting better, that�s not because we have meetings after the shows and discuss what happened, although if something terrible happened sure we do, but if it�s all working, it�s unsaid it�s almost telepathic you know if something happens that�s good on stage things get better and better. He�s right, things have been getting better and better.
KoB - Do you get more out of writing for your music or from other bands that you�ve been with then from writing for your books?
Chris - You know, it�s all the same. You know, everything that I�m, if I decide to sit down and write for me fine if I�m given a project or four walls to work within, like with the Damage Manual where I was a lyricist and a singer then to me that�s a challenge. Writing for someone else�s music is a challenge, which I really enjoy actually. So everything that comes my way I look at it differently because it�s a different challenge every time. But, it�s always good fun to be thrown, �ok, stick this round peg in this square whole.� You know, like when the Damage Manual happened, I was given what were not finished songs. There was melody there, and there was rhythm and there was a certain dynamic about it and I would write for that and then Martin would take it and turn it into a finished song. You know? So that was exciting to me and it was a challenge.
KoB - I discussed with friends of mine, prior to any activity in Afghanistan, how we felt the recent elections would effect such things as the music world, and how we felt the conservative nature of many heads of state would effect the �punk scene� and its music. And I was curious if you thought that Bush could have any effect on this and along with the war, if the heightened popularity of bubble gum pop style music will continue or if this could come to a head soon and change as well?
Martin - I have no idea. I�ll know more in about 3 � weeks time at the end of this tour. I have some ideas, but we�re being surprised by a lots of things at the moment. By how enthusiastic some people are, the reaction from the audiences as a whole, people�s willingness to travel to more than one show. But I don�t know, it could go either way, I mean the yellow brick road, what�s that movie? The Wizard of OZ, came out at a very difficult time in American history. So, who know�s where it�s gonna go, whether people are going to escape to bubble-gum world or escape to a bit of a more harder edged world or what? You know, it seems to be people�s nature to want to escape. Where they choose to escape to, that�s another question.
KoB - Harry Potter.
Martin - Harry Potter, Yeah!
Chris - I think there�s too much going on for anything to change that radically, in a bad way. I mean, I think, You know, how often do I come into contact with whatever is in the charts right now? If I do I�m usually surprised I�ve never heard of the person, and I think I speak for most people you know we operate well below the radar for that to be, like connecting music with something like breakfast cereal, they�re so far apart and they are different entities. Yeah you listen to them and they come on compact discs but that�s where the similarities end. And I think the communication is so strong now a days and I notice it from younger people,
like when I was a kid, the underground was so much the underground it was like a cassette, copied from a cassette, copied from a cassette, to hear this record that you couldn�t buy anywhere. Now, it�s not like that, and I think that�s a double edged sword, but I think it�s mostly good, because it�s out there and it�s available. And I think that means that what�s below the radar is super strong and does have an audience, whether that audience goes out to see a band or whether that audience is at home listening for free it�s still an audience none the less.
KoB - Does that mean that you do support the free trade of music on-line?
Chris - Um...No. (He said emphatically with a chuckle). You know, I mean to me I suppose when I speak of cassettes of cassettes, or people taping albums for you in school, fine. But now I think that there�s so many people and there is so much music being given away for free. I don�t �Not Support� it, I actually, a few months ago was like, �whatever� I don�t care anymore. If people are gonna hear it, you know, I�ve still got a day job. But, it�s Martin you should be talkin� to about that.
Martin - It�s like well, when I see, maybe it�s my mentality, unless you�ve been on a tour bus and you�ve seen people with cracked ribs get out of their bunks and go on stage and do it again 18 shows in a row, 50 shows in a row, unless you�ve seen everything that goes into creating a show like this, with the scenery, and the lights and all the things we have going on to make it a wilder experience, many people think, �Aha, and I just downloaded it and my friend just gave it to me for free,� or whatever, I mean, even if I was given something for free I�m quite likely to buy a t-shirt or the cd again, you know because there�s something, �Support your local scene,� you�ve got to support the scene. And people think, so many people think, �Yeah but that band was no good. They didn�t sound as good as Nine Inch Nails.� Well of course they didn�t, you know, you�ve got to support and nurture your scene. Otherwise it�s gonna die and there won�t be any bands to go and see and the club will close, the clothing store that people go to buy the clothes to go to the clubs to see the band or to meet people and make a connection and get laid, everything will close down, and I�ve seen that happen in cities, where there was an O.K. scene, you know, people like Chris and myself would go and do spoken word, that we couldn�t take Pigface there, it was a small scene. A little store that sold CDs and records and you know everyone is a part of the scene. It�s like you were saying before, �do you blame it on this, do you blame it on that?� Everybody is an active part of the scene or they are not. And yeah, get whatever you want from where ever you want to get it, but understand that if you want to go and see a band like Pigface, over a decent P.A. system, going mad, with more than two members, Then, there�s a...we all have a roll to play in this �food chain.� And so, I don�t think it has really dawned on America yet, like �Oh, there aren�t any clubs anymore, oh dear!� You know, I think that napster guy, I�ve forgotten his name, but if I see him I�ll kick the living crap out of him. Because, not because, you know if people wanted whatever he portrayed what he was doing in a political way, in the guise of some sort of anarchic statement,
and it was just cash, cynical grabbing of cash. And there is a legacy from that, that we may never recover from. You know, it�s cool to rip off Metallica, well it kind of is, you know, it�s cool to rip off IBM, whatever. But there are many bands, I think Metallica made a mistake when they went to the press. They should�ve hired, found a guy who had a little home studio, was doin� some stuff and was selling just enough CDs to make the next one. But with just, maybe three or four or five hundred downloads of his music suddenly he just couldn�t do it anymore, and that�s it, he can�t make music anymore. That�s the problem. Metallica is neither here nor there. It�s the problem of the underground and the foundation of the whole music business, the people making that music who generate the interest in ideas. It�s not Metallica.
KoB - How is the new Underground Inc. working out? (The latest conglomerate developed by Invisible and other labels working together to promote bands and labels and other businesses.)
Martin - It�s great. And we�re inventing it now. I�m trying to work on a new hybrid real world deal that works for people who are entrepreneurially doing it themselves. And, if I can work that out then it will explode. It�s already starting to explode. In the same way that Pigface operates, I�m just saying to people, �Look, I�ve had my label for 13 years and you don�t have to make the last 300 mistakes that I did.� You know, and it�s been really excellent.
KoB - That brings us back to what I wanted to ask you. After 10 years now, is touring with Pigface still the �logistical nightmare� that you described it as early on?
Martin - Yeah, I mean, more so, except I�m not drunk. You know it�s 9 � years since I�ve had a drink and this time we�ve opened up things to include two bands on two other labels. That�s changed things, I can�t just go to them and say �hey, there�s no food today.� It�s different, so as opening things up makes it cooler, it�s not just fans of Pigface who are here tonight, there are also other problems to deal with. But it�s pretty cool.
KoB - Half of my excitement is not just seeing you guys in my home town, but bringing my friends that I�ve always had to tell them �you should�ve gone to see this incredible band. You�ve gotta see them.�
(To Chris) How is it being back after so many years away?
Chris - Oh, it�s fun, you know it�s like riding a bike in many ways. But, yeah, like I said before this is the first time that I�ve been on a tour this long for a, I don�t know, for a long, long time. And I enjoy it, I mean it�s different from when I was 23 years old, you know when I was 23 years old I reeeeally enjoyed it. I mean, to the hilt. But now I enjoy it for what it is, I like who I�m with. And, you know, it�s like a job, you�re with co-workers and you have your jokes and you have a laugh and stuff like that and it�s not always easy but you know it�s great, and it�s great to be playing with a band as powerful as this.
KoB - To both of you, I�m sure when you are touring you have some free time on the bus and I was wondering if you read and/or do you listen to much music? And if so what?
Martin - That�s a theory. I brought stuff to read. I�ve read two pages.
KoB - So, what did you bring?
Martin - Oh god, some crap crime...like a �Witness for the...� where the title is some kind of, you know? And then I borrowed some book from Chris.
Chris - Jim Thompson, �The Getaway.�
Martin - Which I read a page of, and I�ve just been, when I�m not on stage I�m vegetating trying not to, I don�t know exactly what I�m trying to do, just sitting and listening to the bands that are opening up. And I�ve got an awful lot of music to listen to, that I just started to try and listen to today.
KoB - What�s kept your attention lately?
Martin - Actually a band from Charlotte (North Carolina) called VooDou. It was just their second show, and everybody got off the busses. It was really great. And these guys tonight (Hale) were rockin� out. You know different music than I�ve listened to in a while, ultra tight, insanely tight and twisted.
Chris - Yeah, I do both, I read and listen to music. I�ve been reading Jim Thompson, the crime writer. Who I�d not read before, but my girlfriend gave me three of his books before I left, cause she loves him and they�re great. I have about six other books in my bag downstairs. I have �The Joy Luck Club,� and a book of Martin Amis� short stories.
KoB - What about music?
Chris - oh boy, I brought, you know comfort CDs, I brought a lot of CDs from my collection that you know I just always have. Some Can, some David Bowie, you know some Iggy Pop. And a bunch of old punk CDs to play before going on is always good. We were listening to the first Damned album last night and it sounded great.
Martin - And then Chris Haskett did a dub remix of a damned song, so there�s a lot of that going on. Chris Haskett brought a lot of really cool dub stuff. So there�s been a lot of that and Leanne went and bought Judas Priest Live in Japan. You know, so you get, it�s good for that.
Chris - I always find new music when I�m on tour just by virtue of the fact that you are touring with a bunch of different people that play stuff you never would consider, and you�re like, �oh my god, this is great.� And it�s the same as Martin said, you know, when the bands start playing and stuff like that, you can find, be handed a CD-R of something totally amazing, that you�ll never hear again.
(Leaving out small talk, not important to anyone but myself)
KoB - So what�s in the future for Pigface? Another ten years I hope.
Martin - Well, it�s really interesting, but it will be really nice if my unconscious, whatever, had laid the foundation for something that would enable me to be really enthusiastically involved in music ten years from now. And that might be the case. I mean I hadn�t met Seibold, or Kristoff, until two weeks ago, I hadn�t met Meg Lee Chin until I picked her up at the airport five years ago, to come on a Pigface tour. And if Pigface continues to do that for me then, I don�t know, you know? I�d hate to think, I don�t know...
KoB - How do you, how are you introduced to these new people for a tour?
Martin - There�s always a period of, there used to be a certain amount of, the beginning of Mission Impossible, �Well, I need the explosive expert and the french interpreter, ba, ba, boom...� But, (interruption at front of bus distracts us all...) So, I�m as excited to be in Pigface now, probably more excited, �cause I understand, you know, more. I think Pigface is better at being Pigface because for the first couple of years we had no idea what we were doing, really, and neither did the promoters, and neither did the crowd. And we�re fortunate enough to still be around and we can call a promoter and say look it�s Pigface and they�ll say, �Well, who�s in it this time?� Well, we don�t really know yet. �Ok, fine.� Where as when we first did it they said no well we need to know exactly who�s involved. There was no trust between Pigface and the promoter, 
and I would say not much trust between Pigface and the audience, who are used to being short-changed and ripped off. You know, �Rob Halford will not be appearing tonight!� And so what they�ve gotten from Pigface continually is like �you know the seven people we said were going to be here? Well, there�s another five.� You know and that�s, so we�re in this great position of having that trust and we�ve worked for it. So I don�t know what the future holds, but it�s kind of up to us. You know?
Seems like a good place to end the interview. I thanked them for making it down to our neck of the woods and then went in to enjoy that monster which is Pigface live!
For more on his solo career try:
