WGFC Rules The names of the top sparrers in every area will be posted. Top sparrer: Highest win % Most dominating sparrer: Highest average of hearts left after a spar. Best offense: Highest swing to hit ratio. Best defense: most dodgest per fight Best at comboes: most average consecutive hits Most improved: will start after first month Best sparrer 98-99: Best sparrer 2k-2k1: Best sparrer 2k2-2k3 Best new sparrer: Each spar will have at least 2 judges. The number of swings and the number of hits will be recorded for each sparrer. The order of whom hit whom will be recorded. Sparrers will start with equal hearts and sword and shield 3. (must have enough hearts to take 6 hits before dying) A win will be best 2 out of 3 spars. Sparrers may compete in 2 WGFC matches per day. Sparrers may only spar the same competitor once per week. KingClops: (Link: http://www.geocities.com/kingclops/wgfcrules.txt)http://www.geocities.com/kingclops/wgfcrules.txt KingClops: need any updates here? Session Close (highlander228): Sun May 23 13:30:11 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:highlander228): Sun May 23 13:33:43 2004 highlander228: i don't know, that sounds kinda confusing. i think you've got wgfc mixed in with like a list of the top sparrers from years past or something KingClops: no KingClops: not writing about the past KingClops: just going to say who's good depending on when they started sparring highlander228: oh, ok KingClops: instead of just having one rank for top sparrer, more than one person is good of course highlander228: you should seperate how you're going to rank people and what needs to be done in a spar KingClops: hrm? highlander228: need to say sparred may compete in up to 2 spars per day highlander228: sparrers KingClops: separate how I rank and what needs to be done? KingClops: oh ok highlander228: i don't know if you should say what people have to start with in a spar, since it's different on every server. i think you should just say something like both sparrers have to have even iteams highlander228: items highlander228: heh highlander228: yeah, you need th rules for spars seperate from the rules for ranking people KingClops: but need shield 3 highlander228: yes KingClops: shield 3 sparring and shield 1 sparring are different highlander228: and i decent number of hearts highlander228: a Session Close (highlander228): Sun May 23 13:40:55 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:highlander228): Sun May 23 13:43:53 2004 highlander228: i don't think you can really record the number of swings KingClops: why? Session Close (highlander228): Sun May 23 13:44:01 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:highlander228): Sun May 23 13:45:44 2004 highlander228: can if you're trying to keep up with the order of who hit who, it could distract you from other more important things. i think that both judges should have to send in a brief description of each spar, detailing different things highlander228: they should say who won and with how many hearts left, have a brief description of how each sparrer did in their opinion, and mention their overall opinion of the spar highlander228: or something highlander228: if they're sitting there trying to record the number of swings and the order of hits, they're not going to really be able to notice that stuff highlander228: i also think you should have a tag team wgfc highlander228: 2-5 person highlander228: or a team wgfc with 3 person teams. best two out of three wins KingClops: we'd have to make permanent teams or month long teams or it'd be pointless Session Close (highlander228): Sun May 23 13:50:40 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:highlander228): Sun May 23 13:51:56 2004 highlander228: i like permanent teams. the only way you can quit a team would be by a trade or by the team leader booting you from the team, and possibly by the season ending you could have the chance to leave the team highlander228: it would have to be three person teams highlander228: probably highlander228: don't know. i would have to think about it highlander228: two judges couldn't possibly keep up with all of the things you're asking them to highlander228: get two guys who swing a lot and have a quick spar highlander228: that could be recording a hit and they've swung five times by the time they're done highlander228: they* KingClops: I don't think standing in one place slashing really fast should have each slash counted KingClops: yeah, that'd be kind of impossible if someone decided to stand against a wall and swing really fast highlander228: i just think that's kinda dumb but maybe you should get another opinion KingClops: but it'd be cool to know who has best accuracy and such highlander228: it might would possibly alter the way people spar. i like to slash at the wall sometimes just for the hell of it. heh KingClops: it be easy to count it as 3 slash until they start moving again and 3 more each time they get a hit before moving, doesn't have to be perfectly accurate, just want to know how accurate one person is compared to another KingClops: wouldn't count slashing away from the opponent, but would count slashes meant to heard the opponent in another directoin highlander228: bah, ask wu. he will probably tell you the same thing i am KingClops: k highlander228: tell him i said the idea is stupid highlander228: that way he wont just agree with you because KingClops: I don't think its stupid, just some people's styles could make it tricky KingClops: boo Session Close (highlander228): Sun May 23 14:06:52 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:highlander228): Sun May 23 14:07:23 2004 highlander228: yeah, i wouldn't judge spars if i had to record all of that stuff. it would be too much like work KingClops: omg, but high KingClops: you said we could alter people's styles like that KingClops: we could train people that way or screw them up, haha Session Close (highlander228): Sun May 23 14:07:47 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:highlander228): Sun May 23 14:08:16 2004 highlander228: nah, just give up on the idea of recording every swing KingClops: not just that highlander228: every hit is possible KingClops: we can make any rule KingClops: you're missing the big picture highlander228: nah, i don't need an unfair advantage highlander228: ;P KingClops: no, we'd follow the same rule KingClops: s KingClops: but we might be able to make sparrers more skilled than any before highlander228: Rule #1 - You must let Highlander win all of his spars highlander228: nah, just let me make the rules or something. you're going to make it suck. ;P KingClops: riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighitigy Session Close (highlander228): Sun May 23 14:10:47 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:highlander228): Sun May 23 14:11:24 2004 highlander228: just make basic rules and let the best sparrers win. geez KingClops: that's just like any other spar tourney Session Close (highlander228): Sun May 23 14:12:01 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:highlander228): Sun May 23 14:12:05 2004 highlander228: there has never been anything else like wgfc highlander228: a spar tournament is different KingClops: entrancer's graal sparring ladder where entrancer wins everything :P Session Close (highlander228): Sun May 23 14:12:22 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:highlander228): Sun May 23 14:12:43 2004 highlander228: well wgfc was a little before that highlander228: i think you're afraid of what your record will be. ;P KingClops: ?? KingClops: if I spar only good people it'll be like 50% KingClops: if I spar random people it's between 80 and 90 highlander228: we need an average quality of opponent stat highlander228: so we can tell who is dodging the good sparrers highlander228: to keep a high win percentage KingClops: in old wgfc you got slightly more or less points for wins depending on the opponents win % highlander228: i will make a set of ideas for you highlander228: they are best out of three matches correct? KingClops: yes highlander228: that is something that should be in the rules btw highlander228: what is wu saying about keeping up with the number of swings? highlander228: i'm not going to give any ideas afterall... i just wanna spar. ;P highlander228: do whatever you want GokoY2k: yeah i was gonna tell you the same in a way GokoY2k: to keep stats of that GokoY2k: Dodging, attacking, combos, highest swing ratio:P GokoY2k: Average of hearts i can agree on GokoY2k: 'lemme see GokoY2k: combos.. KingClops: what ones to keep and what to get rid of? GokoY2k: instead of best offense and defense, how about classifying the sparrer, GokoY2k: like if he's a defensive, offensive, or both..wtc GokoY2k: etc* KingClops: oh, sparring style? GokoY2k: not sparring style, GokoY2k: the sparring mode GokoY2k: err we can leave that one out too GokoY2k: if you wanna put best offense and defense, we will need a 3rd judge GokoY2k: 3 judges per match KingClops: I was thinking that GokoY2k: or 4 KingClops: but I think it'd be hard to get 3 judges around, hehe GokoY2k: i think we would need 4 KingClops: o.o GokoY2k: offense and defense per person KingClops: why 4? KingClops: nah, you only need to record one person's hits GokoY2k: 2 judges per sparrer KingClops: because you'd know the other person's hits/misses cuz the other judge recorded it KingClops: just record each persons hits/swings, 1 person for each GokoY2k: one judge will record combos and hearts at the end GokoY2k: that same judge will record offense as well GokoY2k: and the other will record defense GokoY2k: err lets put it this way KingClops: don't need to record defense KingClops: because the other persons' judge will know it by how many hits the other guy has GokoY2k: well thats if you wanted to record d GokoY2k: 1) judge will record combos and offense, 2) will record Defense and heart statues GokoY2k: 3) and 4) will do the same with the other sparrer GokoY2k: see why i say that we would need 4 judges GokoY2k: so best take offense and defense out GokoY2k: the others are fine KingClops: ok, but listen KingClops: if I record your hits/misses KingClops: that also records the dodges for the other sparrer GokoY2k: yeah but, lets say the sparrer just swing for the hell of it from far away, doesnt mean that the opponent was dodging it KingClops: oh GokoY2k: some sparrers just swings constantly for the hell of it like most defensive sparrers do KingClops: yeah KingClops: that would make it hard to record accuracy unless you only count that as one attack GokoY2k: so it wouldnt work that way KingClops: buuut KingClops: what would you count if someone stood in one place swinging and hit the other person twice Session Close (GokoY2k): Sun May 23 14:25:53 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:GokoY2k): Sun May 23 14:26:25 2004 GokoY2k: it can mean alot of things, defense, offense and combos GokoY2k: you know what? GokoY2k: just leave defense and offense out, and put time in GokoY2k: how long the match was GokoY2k: averages GokoY2k: its better GokoY2k: Average time in a spar GokoY2k: people would go for that GokoY2k: like bloodsport GokoY2k: people would want the fastest time in a spar GokoY2k: its more competitive GokoY2k: best time and average time GokoY2k: in a spar GokoY2k: what do you think? KingClops: mmm, I'm not sure, just a sec Session Close (GokoY2k): Sun May 23 14:29:41 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:GokoY2k): Sun May 23 14:30:51 2004 GokoY2k: It's a good idea GokoY2k: i can see kurse, jebus and holy knight going for the fastest time KingClops: :P GokoY2k: It's an idea, just think about it GokoY2k: Some people will like it GokoY2k: Some people might go for the highest wins instead KingClops: I do too GokoY2k: most combos GokoY2k: etc KingClops: I like having more than one category to be best at GokoY2k: yes GokoY2k: The only thing i agree with highlander is that taking record of swings and dodges is too much, GokoY2k: Alot of real life tournaments, either in kickboxing, karate, or boxing, also keeps stats of time GokoY2k: plus combos GokoY2k: winning percentages GokoY2k: so it would make sense to add time in wgfc highlander228: you could keep track of the time of the spar, but i don't think it should be promoted in any way to make people try to spar faster GokoY2k: not try, want highlander228: bah GokoY2k: Its like the same with winning percentages, people would want to win more to have the highest winning percentage GokoY2k: combos to have the most combos GokoY2k: etc kingclops: only win % will track in with who is top sparrer, but there should be other categories to win in to make it more interesting and make to show who's good at certain things since only one person can get the top rank at a time highlander228: that is natural sparring, win percantage GokoY2k: i agree with clops kingclops: winning by a lot is almost as important GokoY2k: yes kingclops: graal is missing dominant sparrers these days GokoY2k: how many hearts after a spar GokoY2k: and its average kingclops: I rarely lose by more than one, I think thallen and holy knight can do it to me kingclops: maybe that's it kingclops: thallen got by 2 once kingclops: HK can repeatedly get 3 GokoY2k: Merc did good against thallen kingclops: everyone agrees that thallen speed hacks kingclops: I did good against him too I think GokoY2k: clops, have you seen his site? kingclops: he wasn't hard, but he was winning kingclops: who's site? GokoY2k: it has scripts that makes you wanna say hrmmmm highlander228: i've never heard of anyone you've done bad against clops, at least not from you anyway GokoY2k: thallen highlander228: plenty of other people have told me of people kingclops: I just said I do bad against HK kingclops: you're the one who said you'd win 97% of the time against good people highlander228: ;P highlander228: 97.5 i believe it was GokoY2k: It's not good to brag about yourself:/ highlander228: i was making fun of something clops said highlander228: apparently he didn't realize that kingclops: I think I can beat anyone in graal, but I won't come near the top win % GokoY2k: So we agree with the new idea? kingclops: and a lot of people that are good are easy for me highlander228: no kingclops: which idea? GokoY2k: time highlander228: it will help me personally but i don't agree with it kingclops: I like it, high, you don't have to race, its just for people that want to GokoY2k: lets make a vote kingclops: slow sparrers aren't bad GokoY2k: agree or disagree GokoY2k: I agree with it GokoY2k: clops? kingclops: I agree with any new area just about, I like variety and I want to know as much about the sparrers as possible kingclops: even movies would be great GokoY2k: 2-1, kingclops: james should wake up GokoY2k: you will have to update the rules, heh kingclops: what about offense/defense? I know you don't want to record hits/dodging GokoY2k: combos will do it GokoY2k: dodges? we would need an extra judge to keep stat of that kingclops: I remember D being the best at doding to me, don't remember who was really accurate though, I know people that aren't easily :P GokoY2k: hrm GokoY2k: about lands and misses GokoY2k: well its the same as hits GokoY2k: You can also record how many times the sparrer missed GokoY2k: like boxing highlander228: i thought you were against that? bah GokoY2k: i was against recording dodges basically highlander228: oh ok GokoY2k: but if clops wants to add offense and defense *** highlander228 has left the chat. kingclops: with low lag it should be easier to tell when someone is swinging for the opponent or just herding them, but could you be completely sure or would you count every swing that's not blatantly in the wrong directoin GokoY2k: heh he left GokoY2k: oh well man, you make the decision GokoY2k: not everyone will agree kingclops: we should get another opinion, haha kingclops: since everyone will have to keep track of it GokoY2k: Timing, will interest more people GokoY2k: best time, and their average time GokoY2k: all you need is a stop watch, or use your pc GokoY2k: Then on the site, different page, you can show the person with the highest wins, combos, time, etc GokoY2k: Just a few ideas KingClops: should have top 5 best times, in case someone is really bad, haha GokoY2k: rofl GokoY2k: true GokoY2k: then best average time also KingClops: mercury pwns DJ (looking for girlfriend) (superdeathkillers) in 8 seconds GokoY2k: lol GokoY2k: yeah that will happen GokoY2k: maybe good sparrers will want to spar newbs for time GokoY2k: but it happens all the time in real life tournys GokoY2k: nothing wrong with that GokoY2k: just imagine, we can make a server great, if we put wgfc in the hands of et, Lets just say that we became part of the team, and offcourse wgfc will 24/7 aslong as all the judges are on, we have our own levels for wgfc. Offcourse Tournaments held by other staff will not be included in wgfc KingClops: I was thinking about doing that on classic dev KingClops: but I dunno the limites of their scripting skills GokoY2k: like euro cup, champions league, world cup, its all differnt KingClops: haha, posting people's country would be cool GokoY2k: well talk to storm about it GokoY2k: yeah KingClops: euros would always be after the US champ GokoY2k: that too GokoY2k: rofl GokoY2k: yeah GokoY2k: we can show who's 1st place, and their country KingClops: would it be possible to make sparring rooms do more KingClops: like keep a record of wins/losses and hits/misses or other stats? stormlagmaster: ooh... KingClops: how fast it takes someone to win and such KingClops: I dunno how much the server can keep a record of stormlagmaster: wins and losses may be possible stormlagmaster: hits and misses is harder KingClops: (Link: http://www.geocities.com/kingclops/wgfcrules.txt)http://www.geocities.com/kingclops/wgfcrules.txt stormlagmaster: because like, you cantell if thier dropping hearts or sparring stormlagmaster: cant tell* KingClops: I like the auto heart dropper you get when you walk in a spar room on delteria I think stormlagmaster: what about just using the r ratings? KingClops: ratings don't say much, I think this needs to be something that has even tteam around KingClops: ratings don't account for people laming or getting pk'd KingClops: and I want to keep more stats than that stormlagmaster: Best sparrer 98-99: Killermech Best sparrer 2k-2k1: Killermech Best sparrer 2k2-2k3: Killermech KingClops: you can't tell win % or win/losses by rating KingClops: umm no :P stormlagmaster: Killermechs the only person ive never beaten KingClops: when killer first game around people pwnt him, and when he came back after being gone a while people pwnt him stormlagmaster: Ive drawn once stormlagmaster: Then... KingClops: Thallen is the only person I've sparred that I haven't beaten and he definitely isn't the best, he just uses a speed hack stormlagmaster: Killer for the middle one KingClops: probably stormlagmaster: Zodiac for bottom? KingClops: erm, he's really good, but not the best, he didn't beat gameo when gameo got good KingClops: I tie with him a million times D: KingClops: we fought 4 times in a row and he finally won by 1q stormlagmaster: some people like smurx are good stormlagmaster: but are not the best because they act like assholes KingClops: and we'd like to be able to have a difference between recorded matches and practice stormlagmaster: Can it not be somthing run by certain people? stormlagmaster: like a ladder? KingClops: yeah, but if we only ran it offline it wouldn't draw interest to classic KingClops: err if we ran it while not being on classic KingClops: and we need help recording somethings, some are hard to record by watching stormlagmaster: no i mean, i can add non-staff guild tags which only work on classic stormlagmaster: like (Classic Ladder) or so KingClops: ahh stormlagmaster: then you can run it more official KingClops: or WGFC :D stormlagmaster: hits and misses type stuff is pretty hard KingClops: why dat? KingClops: if they swing and don't hit, it's a miss? stormlagmaster: because theres no event for when you hit an opponent KingClops: uhhhhmmmm KingClops: I thought there was KingClops: because you can tell if someone else in the room got hit stormlagmaster: I can do somthing like... time swung, and times you got hit. KingClops: yeah stormlagmaster: ad probably reverse it from that. KingClops: can the server time a spar? stormlagmaster: you have somthing like ResetStats Clops Polo, then it starts recording the hits and swongs for those till you stop it. KingClops: and you definitely need a place that shows top US sparrer, top Swedish sparrer, etc :P stormlagmaster: maybe possible to add timing KingClops: that would be hard, but it'd make people competitive stormlagmaster: based on what? KingClops: the location people put in their info? KingClops: we can tell them rules before their spar KingClops: and have them put in their country stormlagmaster: wins*wins/loss KingClops: yeah, best by win & KingClops: % stormlagmaster: wins*wins/losses is good KingClops: best world/classic sparrer, best US, Canada, German, Sweden, I forget where else lots of sparrers are KingClops: brittain KingClops: like any nation that has at least 5 sparrers registered KingClops: and maybe a top sparring guild stormlagmaster: hmm.... KingClops: I dunno what's possible, but I know what'd interest people stormlagmaster: would be difficult to get the recording system up stormlagmaster: but i'll try KingClops: do you need help? stormlagmaster: Well i guess wou will run it? KingClops: top sparring guild would be by average win % so low number guilds could compete KingClops: erm, wutang me and highlander and james205 want to at least stormlagmaster: would fights need to be officially started/stopped? stormlagmaster: wow, 4 people all returning KingClops: there's way more than that I brought back stormlagmaster: oldbies must love what im doing for classic KingClops: oldbies favorite server is classic stormlagmaster: I'll finally go down as a legend :P KingClops: :D KingClops: but you need to get more bases than BH, that made me sad >.< Session Close (stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 15:45:06 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 15:45:21 2004 KingClops: sm guild goes under the bridge I think stormlagmaster: Ah, we have Baddies to come, and The Sabbat have almost finished one stormlagmaster: The Sabbat = Ventrue Vampires KingClops: I know KingClops: snc and tcn I don't know where they go KingClops: and demigod needs one stormlagmaster: SNC are still big, and are making a fort stormlagmaster: Demigod is part of Brotherhood sorta stormlagmaster: Killermech is in Brotherhood stormlagmaster: And Demigod is run by Ibonic KingClops: I thought it was KIO stormlagmaster: SNC is KIO KingClops: KIO is demigod leader stormlagmaster: maybe, but he deals with SNC stormlagmaster: but Sabbat, Baddies and Brotherhood is good for now? stormlagmaster: Baddies needs an outside i think stormlagmaster: ? KingClops: no outside to the castle? o.O stormlagmaster: i dunno stormlagmaster: i dont think so KingClops: it used to have one o.O stormlagmaster: oh stormlagmaster: i dunno if it was in the zip Session Close (stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 15:58:10 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 16:04:41 2004 stormlagmaster: Um.... stormlagmaster: I think who hit who would be hard for tag KingClops: tag? Session Close (stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 16:05:45 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 16:05:54 2004 stormlagmaster: teag team spars KingClops: oooh stormlagmaster: also, if i wanted to see who hit who id use triggeraction, but that has different lag from normal swords so would be inaccurate stormlagmaster: unless both people had fast connections KingClops: I have a decent connection, but I lag for some reason and I wouldn't want certain people to be favored over others? stormlagmaster: and counting the times they got hit is hard because people could use bombs or so stormlagmaster: counting swings is easy though stormlagmaster: also hard to tell when the player killed another player stormlagmaster: so wins/losses may need to be done manually (like a chat command) KingClops: no bombs in recorded spars o.O KingClops: that wouldn't be hard to do manually stormlagmaster: would probably be better, that way the 2 judges can argue stormlagmaster: and then decide on the winner stormlagmaster: yeah? KingClops: yeppah stormlagmaster: hmm... stormlagmaster: 2 judges? KingClops: well, if the system is keeping track of stuff might not need more than one stormlagmaster: can make it so both judges must confirm the winner stormlagmaster: like if both say the same winner/loser combination, it updates stormlagmaster: hmm? stormlagmaster: I dunno stormlagmaster: I think its pretty amitious.... stormlagmaster: like i can record wins losses and percentage easily, also guild win loss and percentage, but stuff like accuracy is hard if you want to keep old school lag KingClops: yeah, definitely need as little lag as possible stormlagmaster: well there wont be more lag... just different lag stormlagmaster: like theres client side prediction, and it makes sparring wierd Session Close (stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 16:22:24 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 16:22:30 2004 stormlagmaster: classic lag you have to judge thier lag, with triggeraction, if you hit them on your screen, it counts stormlagmaster: so you can avoid a hit, but on thier screen they hit you, so you count as being hit KingClops: weird KingClops: so you get hit from across the screen? Session Close (stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 16:23:16 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 16:23:22 2004 stormlagmaster: if they are really laggy yeah KingClops: there's be no way to dodge it, boo KingClops: I'd tear people up if I could hit them how they show on my screen stormlagmaster: yes but thats not cool, i want old lag KingClops: I know KingClops: hehe stormlagmaster: and hmmm.. stormlagmaster: this is only for on classic? KingClops: yeah, if you scripted it Session Close (stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 16:25:43 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 16:25:51 2004 stormlagmaster: i'll put together a rough thing soon then stormlagmaster: 2 jusges must be present, so need active refs Session Close (stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 16:29:25 2004 Session Start (AIM - kingclops:stormlagmaster): Sun May 23 16:29:52 2004 stormlagmaster: but automatic logging would be lame, people would accidentally leave it on, or turn it on and lame KingClops: what do you mean? KingClops: without judges you mean? stormlagmaster: if 2 judges need to agree for it to count, its harder to lame stormlagmaster: yeah like automatic wins/losses