Chronology of Cambodian History
2. MAO ZEDONG AND CAMBODIAN PRINCE SIHANOUK1
Beijing, 28 September 1964
Mao Zedong: The United States bombarded the [military] bases of the
Democratic Republic of Vietnam on August 5. The support from you [to DRV] has
surpassed some socialist countries. Some socialist countries are not as good
as you are. They make friends with the Americans, as well as talk about
friendship with them. You are struggling against the Americans. Only by
struggling will you be able to survive. In order to struggle, you need to
rely on the vast masses. Those who talk about unity with the Americans and
who fear the United States will eventually suffer.
....
We have established partial diplomatic relations with Britain. [Ed. note:
This was done already in 1950.] At first, they proposed to exchange
ambassadors and elevate the chargé d'affaires level relations to
ambassadorial relations. But we disagreed. There are two reasons: First, they
claim that Taiwan's status has not been determined. Second, they carry out a
"two-China" policy at the United Nations.
The Americans have done all kinds of stupid things. Probably it will take
nine years or ten years before they are forced to expel Jiang Jieshi's
[Chiang Kai-shek's] representatives from the United Nations. Perhaps this
cannot be done at the moment. But you may say that Taiwan should be expelled
immediately. In actuality, it will take several years, or even longer. [Ed.
note: It in fact happened in 1971.]
Our policy line is to win over such countries as Japan, West Germany, and
Italy to oppose the United States. This is because Italy, West Germany, and
Japan are defeated countries. The monopoly-capitalists want to make money,
and the big capitalists in these countries hope to stand up. In order to stand
up, they will need to have colonies, which will cause their contradictions
with the United States.
....
We have been engaged in wars for 25 years. During these years, we have fought
Jiang Jieshi for 14 years, Japan for eight years, and the Americans in North
Korea for three years.
It is possible to defeat the American troops. At first, among our soldiers
and cadres only twenty percent were confident of defeating the Americans, and
another twenty percent were unwilling to cross the [Yalu] River to fight the
war. They said that the Americans should not be attacked, and that the
Americans were something special. Sixty percent [of our soldiers and cadres]
were middle-of-the-roaders, for whom it did not matter whether or not we were
to fight [the Americans]. Subsequently, all went to [Korea].
Sihanouk: When they were there, one hundred percent of them fought well.
Mao Zedong: Not bad. But we also committed some mistakes. This was because
the general in command was politically backward. That was Peng Dehuai2.
Why did we dispatch him and not someone else there? This was because he was
in good health at that time, and he was a marshal. The other marshal was ill,
and was not in such good health as he was.3 Generally speaking, we
fought quite well. But if the commander had been a more skillful general, we
could have fought even better. To fight a war, it is important to be
prepared. Once you are prepared, the enemy dares not to come, and if he
comes, it is easy to deal with him.
....
I began to study Marxism when I was already 28 years old, and, before that
time, I had learned nothing but feudalism and capitalism. I once believed in
Kant's philosophy. I did not begin to study Marxism and dialectical
materialism until I was 28 years old. Before that time, I had not studied
them, and it was the Russians who exposed me to them. I was taught by the
Russian Revolution of 1917. I did not even know who Marx and Engels were
before 1917. I only knew the names of Napoleon, [George] Washington, [Jean
Jacques] Rousseau, and [James and/or John Stuart] Mill, plus the stuff of
Chinese feudalism, such as Confucius and Mencius, and plus some stuff of
capitalism.
The last time I met you, I asked you to read a book, that is, a part of
Engel's Anti-Dûhring,
"Socialism: from Utopian to Scientific."
Sihanouk: Yes, I have read that book.
Mao: If you are interested, you may want to read another book, it is called The Communist Manifesto. This is the
first book of Marxism.
Sihanouk: I know the book.
Mao Zedong: You know it. But you must make the determination to stand on the
side of the majority. There might be some difficulties. I encountered the
difficulty myself at first, and I changed my stand by making the
determination. Then I turned to learning how to fight a war. I used to be a
primary school teacher, and I had neither learned nor taught how to fight a
war. My teacher was Jiang Jieshi. Because he murdered people. When he
murdered people I began to learn from him, and I learned for ten years, and
had learned almost everything. Then the Japanese invaded China, and we
Communists again cooperated with Jiang Jieshi and the Guomindang. That was
the year 1937. (Mao asks Wang Guangmei: Were you born at that time? Wang:
Yes, I was already born.) We fought the Japanese for eight years. After the
Japanese had left, Jiang again attacked us. After Jiang Jieshi's defeat, the
Americans played the role as our teacher. Their troops approached the Yalu
River at the border of our country. We dispatched our troops to fight them
for three years before the armistice was reached.
Now, the United States is our adversary. But we are negotiating. We have
negotiated in Warsaw for nine years. In the past, we met once a week, or once
every two weeks, or once a month. Now we meet once every two to three months.
We talk about nothing but repeat those old statements.
Our first statement is that the United States should pull the Seventh Fleet
and its troops out [of Taiwan]. Our relations with Jiang Jieshi belong to
China's internal affairs, in which you should not interfere. But it will not
follow us. It requested the release of several American prisoners we have
detained in our prisons, and the dispatch of journalists [to China]. We
refused. The [American] special agents have committed crimes and should be
dealt with in accordance with China's laws. Not a single journalist will be
allowed to come. As the first step, the United States should withdraw its
troops. We now announce that our territorial water covers 12 sea miles, but
it refuses to recognize this and makes intentional invasions. We have issued
warnings, but cannot stop it. We have issued over three hundred warnings and
are prepared to issue three thousand warnings.
Notes:
1. Sihanouk (1922- ), King of Cambodia 1941-55, Prime Minister
1955-60 and chief of state 1960-70, when he was deposed in a coup led by
General Lon Nol. Returned to Phnom Penh with the Khmer Rouge in 1975. Went
once more into exile after the Vietnamese invasion 1978-79. Returned as King
in 1993. A year before this conversation (November 1963), Sihanouk had
renounced US aid and had instead accepted economic assistance from the PRC
and the Soviet Union. This meeting with Mao took place on the second day of a
nine-day visit, leading to substantial Chinese military and economic aid.
2. Peng Dehuai (1898-1974) was the first commander of the "Chinese
People's Volunteers" during the Korean War. He was a member of the CCP
Politburo and the PRC's vice premier and defense minister until 1959, when he
was purged by Mao and disappeared from China's political scene.
3. Mao is probably referring to Lin Biao.
________________________
Source:
Cold War International History Project
Woodrow
Wilson International Center for Scholars
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