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Desktop Crash - response from Westwood (Page 1)
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Author
Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
Core36
Member
posted 04-09-2001 12:09 PM
Look at this reply from RA2help for my desktop crash issue. I ran there little system info program and this is their response. I'm convinced this is not going to be fixed by Westwood. We are screwed.
"OK, from your desktop press ctrl-alt-del. This will bring up a window.
This is your MS Task Manager. You should have a lot of things appear in the
window. This is a list of everything you have running in the background.
Each of these little items uses some of your memory. The problem you are
having is that so much of the memory is being used, there is not enough
left. Now most of these items that running do not need to be running while
you are playing any game. Simply highlight one of them and press the "end
task" button at the bottom. You will need to open and end a task each time.
ALWAYS LEAVE EXPLORER AND SYSTRAY RUNNING! Never turn these two off. After
you have turned off everything except for Explorer and systray, try running
your game again.
Let me know if you have anymore questions by replying back to this email.
Thanks.
-Sam Hoffman
Westwood Studios
Customer Support"
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noelephant
Member
posted 04-09-2001 12:11 PM
I did this and many other things on a system here but it didn't help.
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wayii
Member
posted 04-09-2001 12:16 PM
Westwood please come up w/ a better idea than to close apps. this topic has been posted as far back as the end of last month. ITS NOT THE APPS, THE 1.003 PATCHED WORKED W/ AMD. GO BACK TO 1.003 OR SOMETHING SIMULAR!!!
Thanks for making me an UN SATISFIED CUSTOMER!
WAYII
PS and please dont ask us if we have trainners or mods running. its only been addressed like a thousand times. THATS NOT THE PROBLEM!!!
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-09-2001 01:33 PM
I've said it once, and I'll say it again, I've got over a gig of PC-133 SDRAM installed (1.25 GB) and only use about 1/4 while playing RA2. (That's with a bunch of other stuff running too-- the RAM is mostly for when I'm working in Adobe Photoshop or Adobe Premier; not having to use a disk cache for images rocks!)
To recap, the crash-to-desktop bug is not related to--
1) AMD Processors
2) Not enough RAM
FYI: I run on a dual (2x) Intel Pentium III system on Windows 2000 Server.
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Halcyon
Administrator
posted 04-09-2001 02:55 PM
You asked for a solution, yet you are unhappy when we provide one. If you have a 256 MB RAM machine, but you have ICQ, AIM, Word, Excel, oh, and lets not forget Winamp, you now have a machine that is running with 100 MB of RAM or less. Shut down everything, then try again.
Crashing to desktop isn't a bug guys...it's a technical issue that you can fix. All you have to do is free your resources.
-Halcyon
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Core36
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:03 PM
Halcyon, are we not speaking english or what... We don't have any programs running in the background. THE GAME WORKED PERFECTLY BEFORE PATCH 1004. How could this be a problem with my computer, nothing changed except patch 1004. Do you understand our frustration, THE GAME WORKED PERFECTLY BEFORE PATCH 1004. Patch 1004 broke the game for us.
Can anyone else understand me? Am I speaking Greek? Why do we get the same lame responses from Westwood?
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-09-2001).]
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wayii
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:08 PM
Please,
ive got 512 pc 133 ram on my amd 1.2 ghz machine. a 64 geforce 2 ddr gts video card. i have closed all my resources and still the crash occurs.
try again
wayii
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Jumpjet
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:21 PM
Halcyon, please dont stop responding to this topic.
Everyone on this board is clearly very angry with the current situation, but dont let that put you off. All we are looking for is some reassurance that westwood are recognising the problem. The solution that you have provided here does not work, i have no mods, no backgroud progs, no anything. Simply an AMD comp that crashes every game without fail.
I find it very frustrating that we are now 50-60 days into this problem and westwood are treating us like we dont know what we are talking about. Of cource this is a bug, like Core stated, the only variable when the new patch was added IS the patch.
How can something that worked before, and not work now be attributed to thousands of peoples computers.
Please reply to this, all we want to hear is that WW at least recognise the problem.
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Jumpjet
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:32 PM
Bump. Come on Halcyon
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RA2 HQ
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:34 PM
visit http://www.ra2planet.8m.com/
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Cybraix
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:42 PM
Halcyon,
I have never seen so much B/S. I used to have 256megs of ram and I played with more stuff open then what you said in your post. ALSO IF YOUR THE REQ 64MEGS OF RAM CANT RUN ON A PC WITH 100MEGS FREE YOU NEED TO FIX YOUR F***ING MEMORY LEAKS!!
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Halcyon
Administrator
posted 04-09-2001 03:52 PM
The patch (1.004) fixed many errors that were occurring, as well as adding a LOT of features. These take more resources. Not sure where your resources were before 1.004, but if you received the response "Shut everything down" then you didn't have enough to run our software when you started it up. If you have shut everything down (remember, many of the programs you have running won't be in your taskbar, only in your task manager) then resubmit a NEW EAsy report you run from the game CD to [email protected]. There has yet to be one sent in where the technical team threw up their arms and said "Yep, this must be a bug." If so, it would have been addressed. It is a technical issue.
I know this isn't what you guys want to hear, but we're shotting straight from the hip here.
-Halcyon
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Core36
Member
posted 04-09-2001 03:54 PM
Two months later and this is where we stand, great.
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:10 PM
If I understand your response correctly then, for EVERY PERSON who has sent this file to you, your technical support team have come up with a solution; a solution which reduces the desktop crash rate of occurrence to zero.
Hell, sign me up. Your guys have some game. I'll send mine in tonight, but I expect a solution.
Did I read your response correctly?
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Halcyon
Administrator
posted 04-09-2001 04:13 PM
If there was a bug, we would have received just one of the system scans that are void of background tasks, improper DirectX versions, incompatible mouses, lack of hard drive space, or any one of the other things that can cause the game to crash to the desktop. Number one culprit, of course, is what everyone hates to do...shut down everything they have in the background.
Again: This is not a bug. This is a technical issue which we have addressed. If you need more information, please email [email protected], and make sure you send in a fresh EAsy report, which you can get by running RA2_EZ_pro from your game CD.
-Halcyon
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camelteeth
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:15 PM
You need at least 1 Gigabyte of RAM??
That`s what they`ll say next!
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kgb1982
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:16 PM
Ouch, WW puts a dagger in the heart of crash victims. The way he worded it makes it sound as if they have no plans on fixing it.
I don't experience the bug myself (Celeron 533, 128 MB SDRAM), but I know there are a lot of computer literate people who suffer from this very real problem. If it were as simple as closing all background problems, this problem would've been licked a LONG time ago.
Also, I've tried to recreate the crash on my system by enabling everything in my msconfig menu. Between this and a number of other open programs, I'm looking at under 5 MB of physical memory available (the swap file minimum and maximum both set to 256 megs). To date, no crashes under those circumstances, just much slower performance.
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:20 PM
This is a problem...we are telling you that we are doing what told us to do but it has not helped. Why impose the same solution over and over again?
No Windows computer can have NO program running in the back ground and they must share...RA2 is acting greedy and trying to hog it all!
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Jumpjet
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:25 PM
Lets not turn this into a flame topic guys. We are all frustrated, but if we flame him he'll just stop responding.
Halcyon, what you're saying would make sence if the computers we have are borderline, system wise, on running RA2. But they are not. Seriously everyone has tried shutting down the background progs to just systray and explorer, it doent work. I have 128mb ram, which is double the necessary RAM required to run the game.
So many people can't be wrong Halcyon.. Again please keep responding.
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Jumpjet
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:30 PM
If that was true toxic then he would delete this one.....
Bump, come on Halcyon.. we need feedback.
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:33 PM
That's true. We're all very frustrated with the situation and I imagine everyone at WW is tired of hearing us vent on a near 24/7 basis.
I'll try the EZPro thing, but I think you folks at WW will find that my system has more than enough RAM, more than enough drive space, DirectX 8, a MS Mouse, and nothing but Systray and Explorer running.
Maybe you'll be able to glean some useful info from it. I hope so.
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Jumpjet
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:35 PM
Another good point..
If it was a memory issue (which i doubt) then why do other computers with lowers specs and more background programmes running still work? And why are the majority of the 'desktop crashers' AMD users. I dont need Easy EA to see a pattern here, do you?
Please respond Halcyon
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Caspar
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:41 PM
Just so you know.......
Running EZ reports I have 188mb of RAM free.
What are you saying are the minimum necessary to run RA2 is? Why have my other computers (I have 4) that actually run on less ram (128 vs 256 for the one that's crashing) never experienced a crash running RA2?
(BTW, your prog reads my DX version as DX 7 even though it's 8, not sure why that is..)
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jigr0
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:50 PM
it can't be lack of memory, red alert 2 runs on my P1 48mb ram laptop without crashing but runs very slow, my p3 550 128mb ram runs the game smoothly without any crashes. i think it has something to do with the way people handle their comps. i have several comps that i own and optimize each one to the fullest, always run explorer and systray only cuz i disabled everything else on the msconfig startup except the very required ones from /windows/ folder or whatever but anyways i never have crashes and my friend that has almost the same comp as mine p3 500 128 ram gets alot of desktop crashes, but my p1 laptop never does, but i treat my comps very good and he treats his like crap, he gets alot of errors and comp freezes up alot and lemme just say his comp is just screwed up, he also sometimes gets impatiant and pushes the power button to turn his comp off. what im tryin to say is, keep ur comp in good condition, optimize your msconfig startup, have 4 icons on the desktop like me, have a plain background, defrag and scandisk and anything else u need to do (btw my comp seems to run faster and smoother than my friends 750 p3) and you will prolly not get that crash. i bet u can give me ANY comp amd or whatever and let me reformat and optimize and youll never get that crash again. if youve done everything u can to optimize or whatever (including reinstalling windows) then maybe your only chance is to reformat. i bet this desktop crash thing only happens to screwed up comps that are known to crash or freeze up alot generally. but i could be totally wrong, maybe its a bug
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Jumpjet
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:53 PM
You are wrong, my comp is in excellent condition, like you i edit the programmes that start using msconfig, and defrag regulary. Its a bug.
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Lazer
Member
posted 04-09-2001 04:57 PM
I'm just shooting into thin air here... but could it have something to do with WOL? I have yet to have it happen when I'm not playing on WOL, but I really don't know.
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:00 PM
That's possible. It never happens to me when I'm playing single player.
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Jumpjet
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:01 PM
Again, sorry but I get it all the time offline.
Bump, come on Halcyon reply
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:06 PM
Westwood is going to give you the half ass response anyway... They screwed the game up.. They dont know how to fix it...So just press ALT+CTRL+DEL and the problem will go away..
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:09 PM
Umm memory huh? Ummm..I am running systray and explorer...with..hmm 384mb of DDR pc 2100...Soo I think your WRONG. And its not something we can fix after westwood screwed it up!
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Jumpjet
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:14 PM
Yeah I know, I can remeber posts like this every since 1.004 was released, And even then WW didn't achnowledge any kind of problem. 60(?) days later here we are again.
I dont know a huge lot about computers, but I do know I paid good money for a game which no longer works. Halcyon isn't responding because westwood can't replicate the problem, therefore there is none.
The frustrations of other people with the same problems are evident in these posts, and still westwood stick there fingers in their ears. Even from this topic alone, it is clear there is a bug.
I have been a long time supporter of westwoods games, and when the problems came up I was willing to wait it out. But these posts saying that there is no problem are too much.
C'mon Halcyon give us some feedback
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:17 PM
I'll tell you now...It is a BUG...When it happens to me..Up comes a screen. RED ALERT2 has experienced an INTERNAL ERROR. Please e-mail techincail support..blah blah blah....So gee...hmmm..Must be my imagination..
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Jumpjet
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:21 PM
What you are experiencing there Vision, is not an actual 'desktop' crash. Problems with error messages before it happens are often simply related to corrupted game files. Have you tried reinstalling?
The desktop crash that others are describing is different, in that we get no messages, no prompts. Just simply a desktop in our face.
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Jumpjet
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:30 PM
*sigh* looks like this topic will just disappear into the archives of the message board, along with every other 'desktop crash' related post.
Westwood have let us all down
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-09-2001 05:31 PM
Hey guys.
Just wanted you to know I am working on this. I go through hundreds of emails every day trying to verify if this is a bug. To tell the truth, my job would be a lot easier if I could verify it. Unfortunately, I have not verified it yet. As it stands right now, I have 6 possibles that I am waiting for a response from. That is out of about 5000 emails since the patch. If you think you can help me verify this, please do! Send me your EZ report and i'll look at it.
BTW, I notice many of you are stating that it has nothing to do with the amount of RAM a person has. That is not true. It DOES matter how much RAM you have. And even though you get the same error messages as a lack of RAM would generate, it also depends on WHAT EXACTLY YOUR RAM IS BEING USED FOR! It is possible to have an incredible amount of RAM and it still not work. This isn't because you are out of RAM, it is because you are running another application in the background that is trying to access the same memory block. This is commonly known as a conflict. By asking you to shut down everything you can, we are hoping that one of the applications that you shut down is what is causing the memory conflict. As it happens, this is true about 65% of the time. This also helps me identify problem applications with our games. For instance, Norton Virus scanners will often come in to conflict with our games. Shutting down Norton before starting the game will allow you to play. There have been many applications in the past that cause these conflicts and I am pretty certain you will see them again in the future.
Most of all, I would like to say thanx for posting here with your issues. Many of you in the community are every bit as talented as me in these matters (some of you probably more so). By discussing these issues as a community you have a few times answered your own issues. This saves me a lot of time so that I can track down the big ones.
See you guys here and in the mail...
Tim-WS
[This message has been edited by Tim-WS (edited 04-09-2001).]
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General RA2 Discussion
Desktop Crash - response from Westwood (Page 2)
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Author
Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
Core36
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:33 PM
Westwood, all of us are not wrong. You have a bug in patch 1004.
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-09-2001).]
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Jumpjet
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:35 PM
Thanks Tim.
At least we know it is being worked on.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:35 PM
Thanks for your help Tim-WS!
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-09-2001 05:38 PM
Thanks for letting us know you have a few possibles you're working on, Tim. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I appreciate knowing you've at least got the beginnings of a lead.
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kgb1982
Member
posted 04-09-2001 06:02 PM
I dunno know Tim, people claim to only have Explorer and SysTray running when they get the crash. If there is a memory conflict, WW has to change RA2 because Windows needs those programs running (plus Rnaapp for some systems when online) and they're not going away.
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KhAoS
Member
posted 04-09-2001 06:15 PM
Maybe this topic should be called the mindless rant, thats what half of the people with this problem are doing. It is definately a RAM issue, but for some reason everyone seems to forget that AMD systems reference their RAM totally different from Intel systems, that is why AMD benchmark differently from Intel in all tests with different software.
If it is within your abilities, get hold of every piece of system analysis software you can, SciSoft Sandra etc and test your system, find out EXACTLY what your system is doing, who makes your ram and what speed it is. I do this here at the computer shop im presently working at and you would not believe the amount of issues that come up with ram, and AMD systems seem more vulnerable to this than any other systems.
Its obvious that some AMD are doing this and others not, that should be enough indication that there is too much inconsistency to blame just the game for this. This game may reference memory differently from a lot of others.
Try sending an email about this error to AMD themselves and see if they can tell anything.
Other games have had similar problems to this, just ask Blizzard software.
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Caspar
Member
posted 04-09-2001 06:24 PM
Jigr0, do u live in Oregon? I would like to see you make this game crash proof. Hell, I'd pay you for that!
Of course you have to understand, I ran RA2 on a completely new installation of Win ME after reformatting my hardrive. Other than the VIA, GeForce, SBlaster drivers and DX8 it was clean. Still crashed.
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Caspar
Member
posted 04-09-2001 06:30 PM
Thanks Tim.
I will submit an EZ report. I'm not sure how this will help as it's been awhile since I had a LAN party here (many people got burnt on getting the crash to desktop computer).
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-09-2001 06:33 PM
jet guy...whatever ur name is..It is a desktop crash..That Happens...as well as the internal error coming up...I will be in middle of game and it just closes...Besides..I cant believe they are trying to call this a RAM issue...
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-09-2001 06:51 PM
Another funny thing I have just found. The EZ program isnt even detecting that I have Direct X 8.0 installed. Saying I have 7.0. Pretty funny since I updated it to Direct X 8.0 about a week ago.
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chanz
Member
posted 04-09-2001 07:01 PM
Tim,
I have had the 1.004 bug for 2 months now. I cannot play wol games any longer. Last night I was bored and decided to play a few me vs. ai games. Kept crashing to desktop. I then uninstalled/reinstalled and played all night with no problems. You say this is not a bug? Fyi the only thing running at all times while playing is explorer and systray. Please try to realize that this IS a bug ever since 1.004. Thx
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balcarrie
Member
posted 04-09-2001 09:10 PM
I've submitted my report , showing that i have 192 mb ram free out of 320 on my sys , my background progs closed etc etc etc , listen guys , i had 64 ram in this when i ran patch 1.003 and it never crashed on me once , you changed something in 1.004 that HAS affected the game , maybe not for all of us , but for a lot of us , and it`s as frustrating as h e l l !
to all my fellow sufferers ra2 creates an exception report when it crashes , mail that in as well , also the last game you play creates an mpstats.txt document in your ra2 folder, if you crash mail it in with the exception report
ps get a memory free up program like freemem pro , use it to free up memory before running ra2 , you can grab a lot of what windows uses back .
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Matt91123
Member
posted 04-09-2001 09:33 PM
I have an AMD and I never get the Desktop crash... Just making everyone jealous of that Now to humble myself. I do get a lot of internal errors. That's ****y.
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jtoyota24
Member
posted 04-09-2001 09:56 PM
let me trow a twist at ww. i have a p2-266 with only 32mb of ram and i can play game even without closing anything and 8player game.very slow but this proves your ram theory wrong-although finalalert made maps somtimes crash even with 288ram but never ww maps. hop this helps
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Caspar
Member
posted 04-10-2001 06:27 AM
Where is the exception report located? I'll try to force a crash with systray and explorer the only programs open and send it in then...
Does it keep a record of old crashes? B/C I haven't played RA on this computer since it last crashed....
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danb2000
Member
posted 04-10-2001 06:48 AM
Tim,
Thanks for the well thought out response. In my opinion shutting everything down in the background is a workaround not a "fix". Why should people have to jump through hoops just to play your game, contrary to popular belief it is not the only thing most of us use our pc's for. The game worked flawlessly until the 1.004 patch so why is it so hard to accept the fact that something in that patch is to blame.
Just my two cents...
Dan
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-10-2001 07:40 AM
OK, what was Halcyon sying about incompatible mouses and stuff?
I have the requirements met that are on the outside of my collector's box. Muiltiplayer 4 or more: PII 450 128 RAM, LAN or modem (I have both)..
Anyhow, my system resources are 92% free when I run the game. I have 160MB of PNY memory...both sticks are identical except for the memory amount on them.
Do the math: 1% pf 160 is 1.6. Mutliplied by 8, that is 14.8. Now subtract that from the 160 to find out how much RAM is available for RA2...that leaves me with 145.2MB for the game. Out of memory? I think not.
I just have one burining question for Westwood..Halcyon, TIm, anyone.
WHy is it that games that hog LOADS of resources like Sega Rally 2 and Final Fantasy 8 have NO BUGS? OK, I will give you one...FF8 locked up my comp religiously on the opening movie if I had it set on Hi Res movies. After that, and after a new video card (more Voodoo), I could run FF8 however I wanted to.
PLUS, why can I run these games along with any other with whatever I want in the bacground?
I have a break coming...Tim you should be getting a EZ report from me soon.
BTW, what exactly is an incompatible mouse? Which version of DirectX do I need...8.0 or 8.1?
Preliminary stuff like what's in my system is plastered all over this board, along with what I'm running.
You guys can also have the except.txt file to help bust the washers. Thanks for their IP addresses.
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YANKEE
Member
posted 04-10-2001 08:07 AM
Please help us tim . This desktop crash is the PITS. Thanks for helping!!!
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-10-2001 09:35 AM
Ok guys, first things first. I am not saying it isn't a bug. I am saying I haven't verified it as being a bug. I am still hoping to prove that it is. But the fact is, it just hasn't happened yet.
Most of the issues with the game are tracked down to the two issues I have already stated. One is not enough RAM and the other is a memory conflict with something running in the background. These account for about 85% of the crash to desktop issues.
There are other reasons it will crash though. Many of the people that have sent in scorching email to me because their game did not work sent in follow up emails stating they were sorry for being rude (I don't think they were rude, just upset their $50 product didn't work properly) because they determined that they had been infected by a virus. Again, this becomes a memory issue. It still counts as something running in the background that is absorbing your RAM. You can delete the contents of your Windows/temp directory. This will increase performance. Have you scan disk and defragged lately? Do so.
UPDATE YOUR DRIVERS! I have actually had players write to me stating that if they need to update their drivers then the device they bought was obviously defective and that they totally refuse to update their drivers. *shakes head sadly. People change the oil in their car right? Think of this as something like that. When/if you run your EZ report see what it says your DirectX version is. Initially I was lead to believe that this build of EZ does not recognize 8.0 over 7.0. But I have been getting reports in that clearly state that the user has 8.0. I may be on to something here. I am looking into the DirectX issues. Also, go to www.Microsoft.com and get DirectX 8.0a.
Finally, I would appreciate it if the nice guys out there would stop the disinformation going on. You can not play RA2 on a 266 with 32 MBs of RAM on a normal install.
Thanx for listening, now I need to go check a few things...
Tim-WS
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jtoyota24
Member
posted 04-10-2001 10:01 AM
you are full of crap. you can play on p2-266 with 32mb ram.come to florida and i will show you.just admit it, it ain't ram.
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wildwezl@work
Member
posted 04-10-2001 10:33 AM
amd 700 no crashes before 4 patch. cant compete on ladder cause i lose even when im winning due to crashes. Closing backround apps makes no difference: still crashes with systray and explorer only open. (and sometimes rnaapp) what is rnaapp?? sometimes i can run without it online other times i seem to need it.
had 128 pc100 ram, installed another 128 yesterday, ran 4 games crashed next 1 to desktop. How do i run ez report??
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Core36
Member
posted 04-10-2001 11:09 AM
Tim, I have tried all suggestions from Westwood...ie Defrag my hard drive, delete all files from my temp directory, reinstall the game, update all drivers, make sure no apps in background etc etc. The game still crashes after installing patch 1004. Worked perfectly before upgrading to patch 1004. You say some of these suggestions have helped other users, I doubt it. I think some of the users play a couple games and it doesn't crash so they think its fixed, but they all come back after playing more games. There is a bug in patch 1004. All of us are not wrong. And yes, I've emailed an EZRA2 info file. I used to be amazed how stable the game was before patch 1004.
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-10-2001).]
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-10-2001 11:24 AM
When I ran the EZEA thing last night, I got an IPF (the details of which I sent in to tech support) I tried it multiple times, after restarts, nothing running, etc.
Anybody else have this problem? I get another IPF, but in a different file, when I run it from B&W.
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-10-2001 11:32 AM
Yeah Tim dude...This game worked FINE before this new patch.. Like seriously worked fine.I could play RA for 4 hours straight and no crash...Now I crash about 45-30 min into any multi game. AS well as network games...so patch 100.4 you are the problem!
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-10-2001 11:41 AM
I'd like to know just what on earth besides something RA2 takes up over half the memory in my system. I have 160MB..plenty enough to play the game...according to the system requirements on the bottom of the box.
Not enough RAM? Some systems, yeah...but not those with 128 plus what Windows needs (32MB).
Gee...128+32=160. I have 160. RA2 requires a MAXIMUM of 128 according to the system requirements on the bottom of the box.
Viruses? I get online almost exclusively with with something Westwood. That tells you there's a good chance if I got a virus, it came through Westwood somehow.
I also NEVER, EVER get online without virus protection software. EVER. The idea that Norton won't run correctly with RA2 makes me think that what Ijust said may actually be true...
Background apps? Where? Only the ones RA2 opens! The rest...Internet connection, Explorer, Systray, McAfee. IF ANY OF THOSE CLOSE MY COMPUTER DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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CBWhiz
Member
posted 04-10-2001 11:42 AM
"Initially I was lead to believe that this build of EZ does not recognize 8.0 over 7.0. But I have been getting reports in that clearly state that the user has 8.0."
Last week I upgraded to 8.0 and it still sez 7.0. In fact i uninstalled recently and cant reinstall because your setup program belives that 8.0 (it thinks 7.0) is less then 7.0a, and makes me run DXSetup.exe. Then I run it, and it replaces NOTHING because the install was designed NOT to overwrite new versions. It makes me reboot and then same **** thing happens.
Any help?
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jrc64
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:02 PM
Tim-WS... maybe this will add another piece of the puzzle.
I have no problems playing ra2 on my computer. I have a Intel p3 1gig, with 256 meg ram, running win2000pro. All latest drivers and such... blah blah blah...
and I have a cable modem connection, using an Intel 10/100 NIC. my computer is connected to a hub, which is connected to a linksys router. I know this may not seem important... but later on it might.
Anyway, I recently worked on a buddies computer. It's specs are almost identicle to mine, except in processor speed. It was a Intel p3 800mhz, 256 meg ram, running win2000pro. Also, this computer has a Netgear 10/100 NIC. I installed the OS, and all latest drivers. The system ran fine. I installed RA2. Installed latest patch. System ran fine, and RA2 NEVER once gave me an internal error. I must have played it for 4 or 5 hours over a 3 day period.
So, I turn the computer over to him. He takes it home, and installs some PPoE software that his DSL provider has given him, I think it is called winpoet. Anyway, he starts to get the internal errors almost immediately. Either playing online or in a skirmish. He, and I think it might be because RA2 was installed while his computer was connected to my internet connection. So he un-installed it, and re-installed RA2. It ran great with the original install (1.000) in skirmish mode. As soon as he upgraded to 1.004 the computer would get an internal error while playing in skirmish mode... 100% of the time.
Oh... and by the way... I have RA2 also installed on a p2 233mhz with 64 meg of ram at home... and It runs great. And NOTHING is ever shut down prior to running ra2.
maybe this helps... I hope so...
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Cheatah
Member
posted 04-10-2001 12:03 PM
Look guys, i don't know what you are talking about, i've got a 400 Mhz 128Mb ram with a ATI Rage pro (S*CKS BIG TIME) and the game runs PERFECTLY...yummy
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:19 PM
Tim-WS:
I'm a senior software developer at a company in Redmond, WA-- I develop software in Delphi, C++, x86 assembler and a few other languages, and have done so on multiple operating systems (Windows '95/etc, Windows NT/2000, DOS and Linux).
It's impossible for two applications (two processes) to access the SAME area of memory unless you're using something like a memory mapped file or a specialized DLL or library that allows you to share address space. But generally speaking, Process A should never be able to access Process B's memory, and the only time applications would try to do that is if it's a virus or some other form of malicious code (or, some idiot dereferencing a null or invalid pointer). In any event, trying to access memory that doesn't belong to you or isn't allocated (bad pointer) will result in an access violation.
There's no conflict. There's no lack of memory. If you want my system info, LEAVE AN E-MAIL ADDRESS besides the ra2help one so I can know it's actually getting to you. I'd like this **BUG** fixed, as it's really ruining any chance of having fun with RA2.
[Note: This message has been edited by Halcyon]
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-10-2001 01:56 PM
bump
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:13 PM
The people who have sent you could have manually changed the info in that file that was sent to you
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:17 PM
I do not know how many of you have noticed this...but after several attempts at uninstalling/reinstalling/closing all programs, I've averaged that the majority of the desktop crashes happen when you use the RIGHT mouse button. Mostly when you use it to scroll. When I Right click I also find that RA2 closes and I am at my desktop or window and I have right clicked on an icon or etc. and a menu pops up. Has this happened to you as well?
Also, it happens when I just pass the mouse cursor OVER a structure/unit/etc.
Westwood this batter help! Of course, we could try to not right clicking but how IMPOSSIBLE is that!
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:33 PM
The last time it happened to me, I was drawing a box over 8 Black Eagles to group them for an attack. So I wasn't right-clicking. Sorry.
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-10-2001 02:38 PM
Which is precisely my point. There is a lot of sloppy coding going on in the world today. The issue is that some of those apps running in the background do these sort of things. By asking people to turn those apps off when running the game (not needed while running the game anyways) we hope to not run in to this kind of error. You are absolutely correct. These things should not happen. But they do. Sometimes it is a virus (already covered that, BTW). Sometimes it's just slop. If you ever take the time to read one of the except.txt files it will sometimes say in very big letters right across the top ACCESS VIOLATION! Guess what happens to the game when this occurs.
BTW, when you send email to [email protected], you ARE sending it to me. Three people access that account. Me, Kim Talbot, and Sam Hoffman. Sam does most of the canned replies, Kim handles some of the level one issues and I get everything else. All of the issues regarding AMD and the 1.04 update are going to me to review.
Besides, my email address has been posted here far too many times anyways. I get more customer email to my personal account than I do in three of the titles accounts.
Tim-WS
P.S. - Many of the apps running in the background I have no clue as to what they are. When I find something like that I will ask you what it is.
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-10-2001 02:40 PM
Also, I have asked Sam and Kim to request an EZ report no matter what the question or statement is. If you are going to write to [email protected], be sure to send in your EZ report. This will skip one step in the mail process and hopefully get you a response faster than otherwise.
Tim-WS
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Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
balcarrie
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:45 PM
For those interested the exception.txt file created is in your ra2 folder as is the mpstats.txt
read them after you get the crash and mail them off to tim
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Zoctan
Member
posted 04-10-2001 02:46 PM
To: people complaining about the alleged "desktop crash problem".
Ok guys, you had your fun.. now it's time to sotp playing practical jokes on Westwood. Yes, it was very funny how we confused Westwood by complaining about a nonexistant bug, thereby wasting much of their precious time investigating it.
"I have NOTHING running in the background! I formatted, reinstalled windows, got the latest drivers and installed RA2 and it still happens!" Ha! Yes, that was a good one! As if someone would do such a thing because some stupid game would "crash"! I laughed for days and days about that one.
For those who REALLY think it's a bug, get off the LSD. You are high. You are also a liar and a moron.
Don't make me put the <sarcasm> tags in there.
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OutRigger-
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:05 PM
I run an Athlon T-Bird @ 1.4GHz (Nice cooling, don't ask), 256MB PC1600, Windows 2000 Pro.
Now as far as I knew, Windows 2000 does not allow two programs to use the same memory space or whatever, that's what gives the system alot of it's stability.
Still, Red Alert 2 crashes. Now wait, if I install RA2 to a different directory, and upgrade it to 1.003, it runs perfectly, 99% of the time.. Strange huh? Obviously you can't concive (spelled wrong :P) that something you programmed could have a bug, is that it? I mean, come on, there are hundreds of people that have this problem, but didn't have it before.. Then you shrug it off saying "Shut off everything besides systray and explorer"...
That doesn't work. DOES NOT WORK. Can you read that? I think you can. I'm not trying to insult anyone, but come on, do you really need any more evidence?
I'd like to invite you to my house, to see if you could fix this problem, chances are, you can't, unless you fix the bug.. Give it up, your wrong once, we'd all forgive you if you just fixed the bug..
-Rigga
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-10-2001 03:33 PM
Tim-WS:
I'll give you one tip right now Tim--
The desktop crash bug doesn't generate an except.txt.
(Atleast it doesn't for me.)
So I'm left with no clue what caused the error, be it access violation or something else.
As for sloppy coding by other people from other applications, again Tim, the method of accessing another processes memory is a very DELIBERATE and very arcane thing to do. Besides which, if it were other applications behaving inappropriately, why is it no other application crashes or has errors like RA2?
I still contend the issue is with RA2 and not with my background apps-- RA2 just needs to have better error handling and *try* to recover from un-expected events more gracefully.
Thanks for your quick response though, it shows me one thing I didn't think WW did-- that they care. =) I'll also be sending you my system info (from the app off of the installation CD's) to the ra2help with a note to forward it to you specifically to have it looked at. (I'm not sure if the app sends a list of currently running processes or not, but if it does I'll attempt to have everything open I normally do while playing RA2.)
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wildangel
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:20 PM
ya know, when i BOUGHT this game, i read the system requirements for it and thought, heck my system should be able to handle this. a 700 mhz duron with 192 mb of ram, and a ati all in wonder video card. i have the things open that you said should be open. I have 92-94% of my resourses free. and guess what. I STILL GET THE DESKTOP CRASH. i didn't expect to buy a game, have someone try to "patch" it and end up screwing it up to where I get no pleasure out of the game at all. It just generally ticks me off that the game crashes, whether i'm winning or loosing. SO it's not a technical issue. or else you guys want us to run it with 100% resourses full, and in that case. you should have made a patch to make it run in dos and not have to have windows open.
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:35 PM
I have WinPoET. I am gonna turn that theory about WinPoET causing the crash upside down by stating that Sega Rally 2 and Unreal Tournament work JUST FINE with WinPoET and ANY OTHER APPS I WANT TO RUN in the background.
Don't anyone with Westwood think for one single minute they can get by with a game that won't work with WinPoET. Patch 1.003 worked with it, and without WinPoET, many folks who have DSL won't be playing...and they probably won't come back to Westwood for more games until that problem is fixed.
One solution to the crash...soviet rushes. They get a game over too fast for the crash to occur usually. They can end the game before many units are made. They won't always avoid the crash, but with fast games, you can make up for the losses a bit easier.
Oh, and thanks a WHOLE LOT for letting me post my EAsy info on this board...i was impressed how fast that message posted.
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:55 PM
True, true, but you can't always guarantee that the rush will work all the time nor can you guarantee you will have a short game. Soviet rushers do want to enjoy a long game now and then...
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WaveCable
Member
posted 04-10-2001 04:55 PM
hrm....This is the most action from ww that I have ever seen about this issue. Makes me think that maybe NOW they are starting to believe us.
I think it's fair to say from all the posts that it does not really have anything to do with background apps running in the background for most systems, However everyone should continue to drop background apps if possible. This way they can get off this RAM issue and move on to the real cause of the desktop crash.
[This message has been edited by WaveCable (edited 04-10-2001).]
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Lazer
Member
posted 04-10-2001 05:04 PM
A long, long time ago when I played TS I had a similar problem... the game would crash a lot (although not in the same manner as the RA2 bug and not as often). I read somewhere (I think it came from WW, but I can't be sure as it was a long time ago) that TS had problems Mindspring users running Armon32 in the background. So I started closing that. Hmm... no solution. After a while I just forgot about Armon32 and left it on, and the whole problem went away (probably with a newer patch or Firestorm... to hard to remember).
And all that was on a different computer. Yet I still experience the RA2 desktop crash quite often... with nothing but Systray and Explorer open. And that's the way it's been since about a month after 1.004's release. So why is it still doing this? I know about WW's opinion on RAM, but I personally don't think it's it unless it's conflicting with the only two programs besides RA2 required to run my computer.
[This message has been edited by Lazer (edited 04-10-2001).]
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-10-2001 06:51 PM
bump
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Turbo_2k
Member
posted 04-10-2001 06:59 PM
bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump, wot does bump mean... oh yeah, it means:
bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump, thats enuff bumping 4 one bump session. ill bump again l8er. til then, bump. bye.
p.s bump
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Angrybeaver911
Member
posted 04-10-2001 07:37 PM
Once again foiled by desktop crash. Ok here's what I did to try and fix the problem. I updated ALL my drivers. Then I free'd up 10 gigs of hd space. I have a 13 gig hd. Then I formatted it. Then I Set the video settings to try and free up some ram so that it fixes the "ram" problem. I played one game. Then crash. Ok here's what happens to me. When I have Ra2 installed with the 1.04 patch every time I reboot my computer it says that setup is updating my files and continuing to load windows. What the hell?? Why would that happen?? That's just messed up. And when I reinstall ra2 without the patch... no problem. Also it seems like after running a game of ra2 RIGHT after I defrage my hd I reset my computer, run defrag right after windows boots back up and guess what... It's like I never ran defrag just 2 min's ago. These problems ARE being caused by the new patch for ra2. NONE of this stuff happens before the patch. I'm giving up for now until some "smart" people *cough* *cough* westwood *cough* *cough* can figure it out... cuz i sure as hell can't.
Obviously I'm very ticked about this as are many other people but who know's when it will be fixed. I don't mean to put you guys down at ww. I mean you made a great game. I just wish I could play the **** thing.
Waiting for a fix
A retired Ra2 player
Who may come out of retirement in the future. But has no control over that!!!
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KhAoS
Member
posted 04-10-2001 08:10 PM
Can someone/anyone post the readme.txt as to what 1.004 fixed or added? The general consensus is that something in there has caused AMD machines to act like a boiled turnip.
I agree with one of the above posts about people saying they are flushing their systems but not actually doing it. To tell the truth if this problem was happening to me I would not flush my system, all my personal settings and etc just for this one game. Sure its a good game but reality check, its not THAT good.
And now back to Serious Sam...
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Eltuna
Member
posted 04-10-2001 09:26 PM
First things first Thanks for responding TIM-WS I think westwood may be starting to beleve us thats good. I have had this problem like everyone else since the 1004 patch and have been checking this board and trying everthing posted here since the patch came out,long time ago. I sent ww the EZ program twice, weeks ago, still no fix. Theres obviously people on here that know a lot more about computers than I do so you guys keep working with westwood and fix this thing. For the rest of we will keep watching and waiting and screwing up our computers try all the stuff that gets posted here.
Here is my fix, play the game as if your only have 5 mins to win, only leaves 2mins for the bug to get ya.Enginner rush,tank rush,sell your con yard if you have to I have
even gotten good at rushing on water maps had my rank down to 600 last month, but the crash hurts a little more when you lose to a newbe because of the desktop crash.
Oyea the EZ PROGRAM also shows me as having directx 7 but I have 8a installed and no Txt files either.
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Zoctan
Member
posted 04-10-2001 09:45 PM
"I agree with one of the above posts about people saying they are flushing their systems but not actually doing it"
I did, which is why I mentioned the sarcasm tags at the end... Granted, I format and reinstall more often than anybody else I know, but the only program I installed after windows was RA2 and it did it's great desktop crash trick on me. Still does, but I don't notice it anymore since I haven't been able to PLAY IT FOR 2 MONTHS.
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Eltuna
Member
posted 04-11-2001 12:09 AM
My ranks 511 with 11 crash to desktops
outa 40 games
Gota kill um quick Oyea my screen name is Zillaford
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danielcameron16
Member
posted 04-11-2001 01:15 AM
I managed to stop the crashing to desktop by running the game in a window. Since then I have had no crashes in about 40 games.
I have also found that by playing with a mod installed I have yet to have a crash
1. For those who do not know how to do this go into the start menu, then click on run.Click on browse and go into your RA2 directory and select ra2.exe. After this click open. This should take you back to the first bit. You should see the directory listed where the computer will open. Next, add a space (on the end) and then type win
Start the game by clicking on ok. The game will run in a much smaller window but it is still playable and it stops the crashes.
Daniel
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slimkind
Member
posted 04-11-2001 02:04 AM
Keep this discussion going please, I am finding it helpful, even though we seem to be getting nowhere immediately, my computer was fine before patch 4 came out bottom line and it NOW crashes to desktop, either online or in skirmish without warning. I have tried everything ww have suggested, even formatted my hard drive twice, to find out it does the same desktop crash, it is very frustating to all the players that it is happening to and I cant beleive that ww have 30 odd cpu running and it has not happend to them. Patch 1.004 does contain some sort of ( dare I say it ) bug because not everybody's cpu spec is the same, and it is happening to more and more people the more I read of this discussion, who will be as frustrated as myself.
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Angrybeaver911
Member
posted 04-11-2001 05:45 AM
Khaos, I reformatted my hd for this game. I'm from Buffalo and THere's really nothing much to do besides mess with my computer during the winter. I've tried everything over 100 times so don't tell me that I'm lying about flushing my system out. Because you are wrong. One more thing... "hurray we got em back!" U S A!!
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Jimmy Aerlion
Member
posted 04-11-2001 06:32 AM
i totally argee with everyone here especially Cybraix
our com we know wad to do we closed everything an it still doesn't work i think its the WON net problem coz single player games are no problems ok u guys can't solve the problem and u blame our computer
then maybe u guys shouldn't have put on our boxes saying @ least 64mb of ram needed.
From : a very angry customer (with a whole bunch of others argeed?)
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Caspar
Member
posted 04-11-2001 06:42 AM
It's not just online games. Lan games crash as well (although the number of crashes on my one computer occur more frequently when 4 players are involved)
Actually we are going to try to recreate the crash this weekend making SURE that no programs are running in the background.
After that whether or not I get a report, I'm taking the game off. Fug it. I'm tired of waiting for a fix, it matters a lot less to me now, and I think I will just wean my friends on Age of Empires or Starcraft which DON'T crash on this setup until WC III comes out. Fix it or not, I honestly don't care that much anymore.
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Angrybeaver911
Member
posted 04-11-2001 07:42 AM
Now I'm just fed up. WW You guys really truly and positively SUCK!! Yes you heard me... YOU SUCK!!! I'm so upset with this garbage that I can't take it anymore. I'm uninstalling this game as we speak and I'm bidding fairwell to a great game(with the 1.03 patch). How can you possibly ruin a game with one patch? You guys went TOTALLY BACKWARDS by releasing that patch. That was a big mistake no matter what you guys say. O ya it fixed alot of stuff... Well what's the point of fixing it if we can't play it after the fix? At least we could play it before the patch. Get your act together westwood. Hire some better people to fix this problem. People who CAN ACTUALLY FIX THE PROBLEM! Do you guys realize how big of a problem this really is? I don't think you do. That is just being ignorant and not giving a **** about the customer. Man I wish we could have some kind of meeting between the customer's and the dingbats workin at WW. I just wanna see what you guys are actually trying to do to fix this problem. I'm sure the sight is something like this... 5 or 10 programmers all hungover and pretending to look like they're doin work just so they don't get busted. Then I see you guys playing Ra2 all day (with the 1.03 patch cuz the comps won't crash with that patch) in your offices instead of fixing this crap. Then you guys check out the forums here and there just to give us a little BS to try and pawn us off. Well it's not working... Pawning us off will just make us more upset.
Once again I say these words
FIX THE DESKTOP CRASH BUG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT IS A BUG!!!!
AND IT HAPPENS TO ALOT OF PEOPLE!
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flaktropperreporting
Member
posted 04-11-2001 08:04 AM
bump...
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Yozza
Member
posted 04-11-2001 08:06 AM
I thought I should contribute my problems too.
I used to get kicked to the desktop when playing RA2. I somehow didn't connect it with the 1.04 patch.
I had recently upgraded my graphics card from a GeForce DDR to a GF2 Ultra, so I thought it could be the new card. I gave my GF DDR away, but I had a spare ATi Radeon DDR around, so I thought I'd swap the 2 cards. OK, I thought, maybe a little drop in performance, but I'll give it a try.
Guess what??? The 'kick to desktop' bug is gone!!
I've been playing for a few weeks now, and I've only encountered one Internal Error, but no quits to the desktop.
I figure it is something to do with the graphics card, because with my GF2 Ultra, 3D Mark 2000 and 2001 would quit to the desktop too.
Well, I'm happy with my ATi Radeon OCed to 204/408! GF2 Ultra's suck in my opinion!!
Yoz
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flaktropperreporting
Member
posted 04-11-2001 08:16 AM
ill give in my 2 cents (for what its worth )
and also a stupid (but practical) solution
my game crashes at a major sound or visiual
event.i think the new sound update in 1.004
is too much for a comp to handle.
as to my solution----make the 1.003 patch
availible to download,reinstall ra2,update to 1.003,and stay away from 1.004.
stupid i know ,but sometimes easy solutions are the best.wont work for online games ,but
who cares.with the cheats and mods ,this game has gone downhill faster than ts (and thats truely a sad thing)--
c-ya at emperor
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Eltuna
Member
posted 04-11-2001 08:39 AM
One hundred and four post on this topic
Westwood we have a problem
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Angrybeaver911
Member
posted 04-11-2001 09:40 AM
And counting. We gotta get this post as high as possible to show them what is goin on
DESKTOP CRASH
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-11-2001 09:45 AM
As I have stated before: not all of the crashes are due to memory issues. They are sometimes caused by having old drivers on your devices. Some of the posters in this very string affirm this. Some of you say you completely reformatted, etc. and then installed nothing but RA2. Did you check with Microsoft for updates to your OS? Did you download the latest drivers for all of your devices? Did you install DirectX 8.0a? I bet you didn't.
All of these issues are exactly what I am talking about. There is no magic bullet that will solve all of these issues. You must be willing to provide your own upkeep for your system. I keep trying to verify that this is an actual bug. And very much to my dismay, I can't! We have AMDs in our lab. We can not recreate this issue. Everytime someone sends me the RA2 EZ report I look through it and I read every single line. I always find something wrong. Be it old drivers, too much 'stuff' running in the background, etc. Sometimes I take a look at the RAM portion of the report and see that indeed someone has half a gig of RAM. I check the task list and they don't have anything running that would interfer. But for some reason they only have 80MB free. One would think something was fishy there, eh? Anyone out there know how to update your BIOS?
I am not stating that a bug does not exist. I am stating that I have not verified it. I have received a couple of hundred emails on this issue now, and not one of them verified a single bug. I am still working on it. My list of possibles grew to seven yesturday. Only one person is following up now. What happened to the other six? I gave them my last suggestions and never heard from them again. Either they gave up and dropped it all together or the suggestions worked and they are playing, not bothering to take time to email me back and say it works.
Before you decide this is an actual bug, ask yourself this: Why are others with the same systems as me able to play the game and I'm not? Why do other people with AMDs play without crashing while I can't?
Lastly, remember that as much as I like to post and read these messages, when I am here, I am not working on this issue. If I don't respond fast enough or for a while it is probably because i am working on something. But Halcyon and Delphi keep me up to date a bit.
Tim
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-11-2001 09:51 AM
Actually, Abbarat I am only deleting yours. I don't like trolls.
Tim-ws
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-11-2001 10:21 AM
Core, if it sounds like I am talking down to you, please accept my apologies. It certainly isn't meant to appear so.
I say again: I am not stating that this isn't a bug. I am stating that I can't verify it. You can send me your info, maybe it will help me verify it.
Teslaaaaa, just how many people are having this issue? Everyone on this string? Maybe twice that? Be generous and say 10 times that? We have sold almost 3 million copies of the game. Let's say AMD only has about 33% of the market (they have more). That means that there are about 1 million RA2 players with an AMD. And yet, I have only generated about 200 emails on this topic. If it were a bug whereby version 1.04 causes AMDs to crash to desktop don't you think I would get a few more emails? I am going through and helping people fix their systems so they can play RA2 one at a time. The reason for this is simple. They don't all have the same errors. Some are the same, some are unique. But as I stated in a previous post, there is no magic bullet that will solve all of these problems.
Tim-WS
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jrc64
Member
posted 04-11-2001 10:22 AM
you know... I have probably read almost every post on the string. I find it amazing that people are willing to go through the hoops they are going through for this game. I have the game, and it works fine. But I have tried to fix a friends computer, and have been unable to do so(intel 800mhz). He has an almost identical computer as me. I am not an idiot Tim... I have updated all drivers and all the other crap you are talking about. It doesn't work.
Maybe you should update your minimum system requirements again... I would love to see what we have to do now to get your game to run. I think it is rediculous that I should have to shut down everything running in the background just to play your game.... something I don't have to do with ANY other game I play! Not since the days of memory managers and DOS have I jumped through so many hoops to try and play a game.
In closing I would like to say.... I love the game, and I love to play it... and it works for me. BUT, personally I would NEVER go through what some are going through to play this. This was my first WW product, and might well be my last. If I buy one in the future... it might well be bundled on the shelf at K-Mart for 19.95, so I can be sure by then all the bugs are worked out.
Jeff....
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-11-2001 10:28 AM
JRC64, what does your friends intel system have to do with this topic? This is concerning a possible bug issue with version 1.04 versus AMD processors.
Thanks for replying though. Have your friend send me his EZ report and I'll have a look.
Tim-WS
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Mobius
Moderator
posted 04-11-2001 10:31 AM
Hey Tim I have been trying to gather info but it appears what works for one system does not work for others. I wish you the best of luck finding a solution!
- Mobius
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Core36
Member
posted 04-11-2001 10:32 AM
A better statistic would be how many people play online and how many report crash to desktop. I see alot of users on this board with the exact same problem as me. We haven't done anything wrong. The game worked perfectly before 1004. Unfortunately, I can see we aren't getting anywhere. I am growing so tired of this issue.
Btw Tim, I've already sent you two EZ reports
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-11-2001 10:34 AM
Tim,
Its becoming hard to read your post without cursing. You say the same thing over and over. ITS not a memory issue, I have a friend that has this problem he has 512Megs RAM I rebooted his computer closed all programs and even cleared out the memory (Using the AnalogX MaxMemy Program). He had 352Megs RAM free when I ran RA2 (No programs open at all) and it still crashed. Tim, I find it hard to belive that you have 50 AMD computers there and you can not recreate this problem.. Are all the computers the same?? Please give us the specs on one of these computers.. also this bug may be related to somthing else like the VIA chipsets. Do your job stop dodging questions because you dont want to answer them!
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Author
Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
jrc64
Member
posted 04-11-2001 10:38 AM
Tim...
Well, his system which is an intel based system, is doing the exact same thing as everyone elses that is posting on this topic. I didn't realize by the topic that this was an AMD only thread. These same problems are happening with intel based systems.
If you go back in the thread, to an earlier post by me (i think on page 2) i describe his problem.
You gave statistics in an earlier post... 3 mil copies sold. How many uses do you have that play online. Those are going to be the ONLY group that this effects. If you play on LANS or just the stand alone, you don't need to update to 1.004. So all those people don't really care about whether the patch works or not. From the number of games, and number of users I have seen logged onto WOL... it doesn't seem as though 3 mil people are logged on.
Thanks
Jeff
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thaywoody
Member
posted 04-11-2001 11:11 AM
maybe its me BUT it seems funny that the problem started with 1.04. I know we have gone many many rounds with this. I am ready and willing to use my system to help get this issue fixed. I know that I have done the following with system:
Format
windows ME fresh install
install ALL updates from windowsupdate.com
update all drivers Video, sound, Via etc.
install RA2.
Crash!
yes I have tried closing programs.
yes I do check system resources.
It has been a while since I sent a EZ in. The last time I did I got a rply asking me what my system specs are. I sent them back only to get a autoresponder asking me the same thing again! Maybe it works better now. If not I will jump back into B&W.
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The Terminator
Member
posted 04-11-2001 11:19 AM
I have a solution why doen't Westwood find ten people whose computers crash, fly them to their home base with their computers. This way Tim would be able to see first hand what these ladies and gentlemen are talking about. This would truly show the RA2 community that WW wants to correct the discrepancies.
I have an AMD K6 2 400Mhz, 3GB HDD, 128 MB RAM, 32 MB Video card, and it is a Packard Bell(please don't flame my choice of computer hehe) and my system has never crashed.
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The Terminator
Member
posted 04-11-2001 11:33 AM
Bump
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The Terminator
Member
posted 04-11-2001 12:09 PM
Bump again
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-11-2001 12:26 PM
Hey gang.
A few people are getting a little personal here. Please don't. I do not dodge questions. I will answer any question you give me, provided I don't get a thousand questions at a time. This forum is here so that we can discuss this issue together. I don't want you guys to feel that I am ignoring this issue, I am not. I am right here telling you what I know.
We do not have 50 AMD systems. A bit less than that. However, no two of them are the same (well, maybe two fo them).
I only wish I could have your systems! But that isn't a very viable probability.
Mobius (heya bud!), what works for one system won't always work for another. Out of the 3 million users of the game I'll bet you won't find alot of people with the exact same setup. This is why there are updates for every product available for PCs in the first place. Hardware and software.
As for the number of purchasers of the game vs. the number online, you are correct. The fact is, the users that love the solo campaigns and don't bother with internet play actually respond to me MORE than you guys! I can not verify for you how many people have updated. I do not have those numbers. But I do know that it gets done alot. I quite often receive email and even snailmail asking for a CD with the update because there is no other way for them to get it (we don't do that, BTW). But I will concede to you that not all of them are updating. Also, I just reread that post to you (JRC) and I may have sounded a bit snippity. Sorry if I did.
Anyhow, I have another thought going on right now as to what may be causing this for some people and not others. So it is back to the salt mines...
I'll read the posts at least once more before close of business today.
Tim-WS
[This message has been edited by Tim-WS (edited 04-11-2001).]
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-11-2001 12:32 PM
I have a Intel P3 800Mhz, 512Megs PC-133 RAM, 48X LG CDROM Drive, Elsa Gladiac Geforce 2 GTS, Sound Blaster Live! Platium 5.5, 20 GIG Maxtor Hard Drive(UDMA66).
I just played for 1 hour with all my normal apps opened along with.. MS Word, Excel IE 5.5, Outlook Express, AIM, MSN Messanger, and A Geforce demo(from www.nvidia.com). I only had 48Megs RAM free(Before I started RA2 and I did not crash, they game ran slower then normal but IT DID NOT CRASH... Did you read that Tim... DID NOT CRASH. So stop saying lack of memory is the issue.
[This message has been edited by -FreeLaNce- (edited 04-11-2001).]
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-11-2001 12:49 PM
Thanks Freelance, really, but you don't have the same set up as the other people here. And besides, if you read all of the posts you will see that I have stated that it is not always a memory issue! There are other reasons. I am happy to hear that you can play.
Bye now.
Tim-WS
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-11-2001 01:17 PM
Uh no.. I have never had the Crash problem, I was just proving to you that your game can run on low memory so the other people that have these crash problems are not crashing because of low memory!
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-11-2001 01:17 PM
Tim, you must have the patience of Job to put up with us. We appreciate that WW has an envoy who'll at least try to continue a dialogue in this rather heated forum.
Just to make sure of one thing, because this is the only time the crash happens to me, your game testers are playing the game multiplayer on WOL over a dialup connection as well as other configurations, right?
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-11-2001 01:32 PM
Tim, have you seen my post about the right-click then crash issue? I think it might be a valuable clue in proving this is a bug. I believe 200% that this is a bug. This is not meant to effend anyone, BTW
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teslaaaa
Member
posted 04-11-2001 01:40 PM
in reply to:Teslaaaaa, just how many people are having this issue? Everyone on this string? Maybe twice that? Be generous and say 10 times that? We have sold almost 3 million copies of the game. Let's say AMD only has about 33% of the market (they have more). That means that there are about 1 million RA2 players with an AMD. And yet, I have only generated about 200 emails on this topic. If it were a bug whereby version 1.04 causes AMDs to crash to desktop don't you think I would get a few more emails? I am going through and helping people fix their systems so they can play RA2 one at a time. The reason for this is simple. They don't all have the same errors. Some are the same, some are unique. But as I stated in a previous post, there is no magic bullet that will solve all of these problems.
ok u say 1 million people.
1 i have the amd bug, i have emailed you maybe one time.5 bucks says you never saw it.
2 i have more than 10 friends who have amds, every one of them has the bug. also none of them have emailed you.
they simply dont play the game any more,
heres a sigh guys
i dont know if your farmilliar with global dominance, its a gaming leage. all the ww games used to be the most played game, now because of the lack of support not a single game of ts,ra1,or ra2 has been played in 2-3 weeks, people simply dont like being ignored.
on the other hand aok and sc are now the most played games. and i dont like them, but at least they work.
i would say that at least 50 percent of the amd users have crashes, 50 percent of them are newbies who dont care about rank or and occasional 1out of 10 games crashing, then of the 50 percent who do care, how many of us have time or want to waste the time emailing.
like i said i never got any return to my email. so theres your answer to the few emails that you recieve.
also maybe a tech support page which tells the proper procedure for reporting this bug would be nice.
so since your going thru 1 at a time and fixing the problem, explain to me what i need to do to get you to help me fix my problem? do i need to email you?
if so tell me what info you need. if you do fix my problems then i will help you spread the word and help others.
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gudgey
Member
posted 04-11-2001 01:42 PM
I can imagine how you all feel, I have been sending my EZ info for well, I think it was the 21st February 2001 the first time and I have had various suggestions as answers, a lot of them the same I might add, eg FReeing up resources, closing all backround applications etc, had the lot, then I got one back saying THis is a problem a number of people reported ...... blah blah will be in touch as soon as we have a fix, so I left it a week or so and decided to update drivers on everything went to microsft update, and bang, it crashed again, so I thought I will get there in the end and phoned up WW ( from the UK not cheap as I was on for 20 mins plus ) to see if there was anything else I could do. WW had not heard of this before ( find that hard to believe ) and suggested to me to upgrade my Netgear network card to a 3com because there is an issue with LinkSys and Netgear cards, so great a new bit of info, tried that and of course you guessed it, done the same thing, I might add WW said a few other things, like knocking the accelaration down on my sound which I tried, checked for IRQ conflicts, that was fine. So I decided to send another EZ email in to WW for a final try, explaining all of the above, only to find a couple of days later I got an email saying.
I'm sorry, without the original message history we cannot trace any previous
communications you may have had with us. Please respond to this email with
your problem and any suggestions we may have already given. Be sure to
include the name of the game your having problems with, and any specific
error messages/symptoms you may be experiencing.
It may also help us solve your problem faster if we know more information on
your specific system configuration. We have enclosed a small program on the
game CD that will identify your computers hardware components and submit
them to us via email.
Please browse your CD and run the "Command Conquer Red Alert 2_EZ.exe"
program. Fill in the information requested, and be sure to include your
current problem... up to date with any solutions we may have already
provided you. This can even be a "copy/paste" of any previous email
communication we've had.
Once we get the information, we'll respond ASAP to solve the problem.
Thanks,
-Sam Hoffman
Westwood Studios
Customer Support
Which wound me up very badly, as I have sent in numerous emails supplying all of my specifications everytime. I know you are probably sick of hearing this, but my game was absolutely fine before the new patch came out, I had absolutely no problems at all, apart from a couple of recon errors, skirmish mode was fine even with 8 players, if I play with 8 players, now it just laughs at me, even with 4 players. It crashes. At this moment all I do is play quick matches and I will until there is something positive said, because they seem to me to very rarely crash me to desktop, because if I go to play 4 player game online, one of us usally me will crash out of the game to desktop and that is just not fair on the people I am playing against ( well it might be if they not on my side!! ) my playing partner ( I am talking about 4 player clan matches ) and especially not me. It has gone on too long for me now, and I am sure there must be a way of WW recreating the crash themselves, heck I would even give my CPU to them if it helped. I know ther is not a "one winning" post that will "fix" the issue for everyone but please take time into creating the situation yourselves WW, I am sure it cant just be me and the people who it happens to being the same, one of us must have got it right in doing what you suggest to do and then it still crashing. Please let me know your thoughts.
A frustrated RA2 gamer who loves the game lots.
Gudgey
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teslaaaa
Member
posted 04-11-2001 01:52 PM
realy tim i would like info on what i need to email you in order to get this fixed.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-11-2001 02:08 PM
Btw, I don't appreciate my posts being deleted in this thread. I haven't said anything offensive, just stating the facts.
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mnewman
Member
posted 04-11-2001 02:16 PM
Hey guys,
I had this problem after installing 1004 and sent in the EAsy file 3 times. Each time I replied with more problems, the Westwood tech e-mail said, "Please run the EAsy program again...." AAARRRGGGHHH!
In a fit of frustration, I uninstalled the entire product - AND WENT TO THE REGISTRY AND REMOVED THE LEFTOVER KEYS from HKLM/software/westwood. When I reinstalled and patched to 1004, it worked!
So bug or no, perhaps the problem likes in the 1004 installation process. If you have a "dirty" 1004 update, the game crashes. If you have a "clean" 1004 update, it works.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
M
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JIXTER
Member
posted 04-11-2001 02:23 PM
Tim
I have tried the "end task" concept on all my running programs and as I have posted before, it means nothing, it helps nothing, and it changes nothing. I play games that use alot more ram than ra2 and never have had problems. AGAIN, I am going to list my error word for word............"RED ALERT 2 HAS INCURRED AN INTERNAL ERROR AND CANNOT CONTINUE NORMALLY. PLEASE CONTACT WESTWOOD.COM FOR TECHNICAL SUPPORT.", which I have done 3 times by phone and keep getting told the same thing except in different words each time, and it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH MY MEMORY!!!!
DOES ANYONE UNDERSTAND THAT?
I HAVE SOMETHING CORRUPTED ON MY HARD DRIVE BECAUSE A REINSTALL WITHOUT THE PATCH AND IT STILL DOES IT, ANSWER THAT ONE.............
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-11-2001 02:36 PM
I will give the following instructions, but I want you to know that this particular path will not work for everyone. I can not tell without knowing what video/sound cards you have, etc.
Completely uninstall Red Alert 2 from your system.
Delete the Westwood/RA2 folder.
If you know how, do a regedit and remove the RA2 key from the registry (if it is still there).
Remove DirectX from your system.
Reboot.
Open your task manager and shut down everything except systray and explore. This means everything. Do not leave the virus scanner running, you won't need it.
Update the drivers for your devices. This includes video, sound, mouse, DVD, CDROM, joysticks, monitors, everything. Update them all. Make sure you only download the new drivers from the manufacturer of that particular device.
Reboot your system.
Open your Task Manager and shut down all of those apps again leaving only Explorer and systray running.
Install Red Alert 2. Do not download the update yet. Play the game. Notice the performance of your system. If you do not have a more updated version of DirectX 7.0a, RA2 will install DirectX 7.0a. Go ahead and generate an EZ report and save it.
Reboot and shut down the apps as before. Log in to Westood Online and accept the auto-update for Red Alert 2. Follow the instructions.
Reboot and shut down as before. Play the game. What differences in the game did you notice? Generate the EZ report and send me both copies. Also send me all of your connectivity information. I would like who your ISP is, what type of modem you have, whether or not you are on a network, whether or not you are using ICS, and the exact wording of any and all errors. Send in any except.txt files that you find as well. Run the DXDiag app and send that in too.
I'll be waiting for all of this info....
Tim-WS
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-11-2001 02:54 PM
i also have an amd 800
nvidia m64 32meg
creative 128 sound card
256 megs of ram
i have sent 3 ez thingys and every reply i get tells me to shut down all the background
apps but it does not work i get kicked to the desktop every game regardless. no error message nothing, it worked perfectly before the 1004 patch. i play loads of other games on the net like age of empires 2 and delta force 2 and land warrior, without shutting down any background apps with no probs
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-11-2001 02:58 PM
i also have an amd 800
nvidia m64 32meg
creative 128 sound card
256 megs of ram
i have sent 3 ez thingys and every reply i get tells me to shut down all the background
apps but it does not work i get kicked to the desktop every game regardless. no error message nothing, it worked perfectly before the 1004 patch. i play loads of other games on the net like age of empires 2 and delta force 2 and land warrior, without shutting down any background apps with no probs
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-11-2001 03:02 PM
Tim why dont ww revert to patch 1003 for the time being so we can all play. while you sort out the problem
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Treget
Member
posted 04-11-2001 03:14 PM
Hey Tim,
I'm on a Sony Vaio with Windows ME. It's a P3 866Mhz with 128 of ram. i have directX 8.0 and all my drivers are certified except for my video driver, but I have a GeForce2 video card. I sent you an ez info just a bit ago, and I'm willing to post it if you want.
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-11-2001 03:14 PM
also since installing 1004 patch every time i boot up it says,please wait while windows
updates system files.so i uninstalled the game and re-installed and it dont say it any more put the new patch in and back it comes
why does it keep doing it
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Core36
Member
posted 04-11-2001 03:26 PM
Tim, thats alot of hoops to go through. Also, doesn't Microsoft say you can't uninstall directx?
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Corona999
Member
posted 04-11-2001 03:28 PM
Hiya,
I also have an AMD system. Slot A 700 to be exact with an ASUS K7V mobo with VIA KX-133 chipset. Use SB Live! Value and Nvidia TNT2. I still get the crash but I managed to reduce the number of crashes somewhat. I updated all my drivers of course, DirectX8a, defrag, background apps shutdown. Still got the crash. I also changed my sound card to PCI slot 2 on my motherboard which isn't shared and this seemed to increase stability a little. I also noticed that rebooting every game (which is a pain) allowed me to play a full game without crashing. Perhaps some sort of memory re-initialization thing is going on during the reboot which makes RA2 more stable. Well, that's all for now.
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The Terminator
Member
posted 04-11-2001 03:53 PM
I still think Westwood should fly ten people out with their machines and evaluate it that way. It would save Tim a lot of heart ache and trouble. I know Westwood has the money to afford it.
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crusty64
Member
posted 04-11-2001 04:24 PM
how the heck do you uninstall directX ?? is there something i don't know?
Oh... and Tim... all of your suggestions seem to apply to people running win9X.. what about those running win2k?
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Thunder47
Member
posted 04-11-2001 04:43 PM
Can anyone give me a walkthrough on how to delete RA2 from the regedit file. If it worked for mnewman then it can work for me too.
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Tech_9
Member
posted 04-11-2001 04:55 PM
Something just occurred to me, that might be a possible problem reason why it is SO hard to find the REAL culprit behind the whole Desktop Crash thing. Certain programs aren't actually displayed as running in the *Darnit forgot the name of the box*, well anyway when u press Ctrl-Alt-Del...Most of these programs are Windows utilities(Such as those that attempt to update Microsoft Programs...ex. Internet Explorer, Media Player, Office, Works...ETC.) I know this happens, because I have a firewall that tell's me these programs are attempting to use the internet, eventhough they aren't displayed in *Sorry again guys, still can't remember that box name!* Ctrl-Alt-Del box. So it might possibly be something in Windows? Not sure if Mac players are having the problem...(Then again I don't have the problem on this machine, but on the one at work, but they do have a few different config's.) Just an Idea, that Westwood might think about looking into.
Thanks for your time Tim! Least we know you guys are trying...
*'I'm Gone!'<<<Chrono-Legionaire*
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jigr0
Member
posted 04-11-2001 05:09 PM
just wanna say one thing that kind of gets to me. when people say they boot their comp up and quit all programs except explorer and systray and they say they have a comp with 256 mb or something and only have 100 megs left free or have 512 mb and only have 48mb or 350mb left or somethin, either these people are retarded or lying. ive read this MANY times, cmon people unless your computer is primarily used for a network server or other special uses, u dont need more than 128mb or ram and i gaurantee it. you people are lying or retarded or your comps are defected. please, running explorer and systray only and using 150 mb or RAM???? get out of here, this is all ridiculous, maybe u people get crashes because u have defected comps or u dont know how to quit programs because you cannot use 100+ mb of ram running nothing. my comp has 128 mb and i never get close to spending all my 128mb even with tons of programs running i get up to around 100mb, except in a game, never checked with a game on thogh
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-11-2001 05:29 PM
Ach! Thanks for catching the NT kernel thing! I wouldn't want people trying these things with Windows NT sp4!
I have to say I am extremely pleased with the way the board has turned for the last few posts. I believe this is what a forum like this is designed for. Proactive help.
If you guys would like an idea as to what I get to do, try this:
post your EZ report here and we'll all look at each system together. When the report is written, it will also write your Windows OEM number. Delete this if you do post it here. I'm gonna go to my 98 machine and get the report and I'll post it here in a format I would like you to follow.
Tim-WS
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-11-2001 05:42 PM
----EASy System Summary--------------------------------------
Video Card : NVIDIA RIVA TNT
Video Driver : nvdisp.drv
Driver Version : 4.12.01.0618
Sound Card : Creative AWE64 16-bit Audio (SB16 compatible)
Sound Driver : sb16.vxd
Driver Version : 4.05.00.1998
DirectX : DirectX 7
Operating System Windows 98 A 4.10.2222
----EASy System Output---------------------------------------
Computer Name : Tims98
BIOS Info
Name : Award
Version : Award Modular BIOS v4.51PG
PNP : Plug and Play BIOS
Manufacturer : (Standard system devices)
CPU Info
CPU Count : 1
CPU Type : 351 MHz AuthenticAMD AMD K6-2
5 8 0
RAM : 127 MB Total
42 MB Free
Virtual RAM : 1513 MB Total
1480 MB Free
Operating System : Windows 98 A 4.10.2222
Default Browser : Internet Explorer
Version : 5.0.2614.3500
Temp Directory : C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\
Size : 3 MB
------------------------------------------------------------
----Display Info--------------------------------------------
Number of Displays : 1
Current Mode (Primary) : 1024x768 16
Refresh Rate (Primary) : Optimal refresh rate
Primary display device
Description : NVIDIA RIVA TNT
Manufacturer : NVIDIA
Video Memory : 16 MB
Main Driver : nvdisp.drv
Version : 4.12.01.0618
Provider : NVIDIA
Supported Display Modes
| 16 | 256 | 16 bits| 24 bits| 32 bits
---------------------------------------------------
640 x 480| * | * | * | | *
800 x 600| | * | * | | *
1024x 768| | * | * | | *
1152x 864| | * | * | | *
1280x1024| | * | * | | *
1600x1200| | | | |
------------------------------------------------------------
----Sound, Video and Game Controllers-----------------------
Description : Creative AWE64 16-bit Audio (SB16 compatible)
Manufacturer : Creative
Main Driver : sb16.vxd
Version : 4.05.00.1998
Provider : Microsoft
Description : Gameport Joystick
Manufacturer : Microsoft
Main Driver : vjoyd.vxd
Version : 4.05.01.1998
Provider : Microsoft
Description : Creative AWE64 Wavetable MIDI (AWE32 compatible)
Manufacturer : Creative
Main Driver : sbawe.vxd
Version : 4.05.00.1998
Provider : Microsoft
------------------------------------------------------------
----Direct X------------------------------------------------
DirectX Info
Version : DirectX 7
DirectDraw Info
Version : 4.07.00.0700
Certified : Not certified
DirectSound Info
Version : 4.07.00.0700
Certified : Certified
DirectPlay Info
Version : 4.03.00.1096
DirectInput Info
Version : 4.07.00.0700
------------------------------------------------------------
----Drive Information---------------------------------------
----CDRom Info----------------------------------------------
Cache size : 1238 KB
Access Pattern : Quad-speed or higher
Drive Letter A
Volume Name :
Type : Floppy
File System :
Total Space : 0.00 KB
Free Space : 0.00 KB
Drive Letter C
Volume Name : WS_DRIVE_C
Type : Fixed
File System : FAT32
Total Space : 5.99 GB
Free Space : 1.44 GB
Drive Letter D
Volume Name : WS_DRIVE_D
Type : Fixed
File System : FAT32
Total Space : 11.85 GB
Free Space : 11.78 GB
Drive Letter E
Volume Name : RA2
Type : CDRom
File System : CDFS
Total Space : 607.34 MB
Free Space : 0.00 KB
Sec/MB : Test not performed
Detected Speed : Test not performed
<NOTE: other drive info removed for training purposes>Tim-WS
------------------------------------------------------------
----Monitor Information-------------------------------------
Primary monitor
Description : ViewSonic 17GS-2
Manufacturer : ViewSonic
Max. Resolution : 1280x1024
------------------------------------------------------------
----Network Information-------------------------------------
Description : Dial-Up Adapter
Manufacturer : Microsoft
Driver : pppmac.vxd
Provider : Microsoft
Bound Protocols
TCP/IP
IP Address: Obtained from provider
IP Mask: Obtained from provider
Description : Intel(R) PRO/100+ PCI Adapter
Manufacturer : Intel
Driver : e100bnt.sys
Provider : Microsoft
Bound Protocols
TCP/IP
IP Address: Obtained from provider
IP Mask: Obtained from provider
IPX/SPX-compatible Protocol
Frame type:Auto
IPX Address:0
------------------------------------------------------------
----Input Device Information--------------------------------
Mouse Information
Description : PS/2 Compatible Mouse Port
Type : PS2
Keyboard Information
Description : IBM enhanced (101- or 102-key)
------------------------------------------------------------
----Modem Information---------------------------------------
Description : U.S. Robotics 33.6K FAX EXT
Driver : U.S. Robotics 33.6K FAX EXT
Provider : 4-23-1999
------------------------------------------------------------
----Glide/OpenGL Information--------------------------------
Glide Info
Glide2 Version :
Glide3 Version :
OpenGL Info
Version : 4.0
------------------------------------------------------------
----Task List-----------------------------------------------
msgsrv32.exe
mprexe.exe
mmtask.tsk
mstask.exe
methw95.exe
Explorer
taskmon.exe
Systray
ddhelp.exe
spool32.exe
ez.exe
------------------------------------------------------------
----Autoexec.bat--------------------------------------------
<removed for training purposes>Tim-WS
------------------------------------------------------------
----Config.sys----------------------------------------------
*empty*
------------------------------------------------------------
X_CASE_START
X_CASE_DESCRIPTION:
X_CONTACT_FIRST_NAME:
X_CONTACT_LAST_NAME:
X_GAME:
X_SERIAL_KEY:
X_OPERATING_SYSTEM: Windows 98 A , Version 4.10, Build 2222
X_PROCESSOR: AMD K6-2
X_SPEED: 351 MHz
X_MMX: Yes
X_RAM: 127 MB
X_MANUFACTURER:
X_PRODUCT_ID:
X_VIDEO_CARD: NVIDIA RIVA TNT
X_DISPLAY_DRIVER: 4.12.01.0618
X_DISPLAY_DIRECTX: Not Certified, Hardware Support
X_DISPLAY_MEMORY: 5 MB
X_AUDIO_CERTIFIED: Certified
X_AUDIO_DRIVERS: sb16.vxd 4.05.00.1998
X_MODEM: U.S. Robotics 33.6K FAX EXT
X_V_MANUFACTURER: NVIDIA
X_A_MANUFACTURER: Creative
X_CASE_END
IP: Logged
Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-11-2001 05:49 PM
Whoa! Seems I need to update my drivers too! A few other tweeks wouldn't hurt either. BTW, this system runs just fine. I see some slow downs when I play at max res, but that should be expected.
No, this isn't my prime machine. This is my little 98 test machine that I keep for test purposes. I still get requests for help with games as old as Eye of the Beholder and Crescent Hawk's Inception!
Anyone wanna point out how I can tweek this puppy? I'll give you till Friday. Best POSTED RESPONSE AS DECIDED BY THE POSTERS gets a prize....(i'll count votes at close of business on Friday)...and my vote counts for more than the posters! Hee hee hee...
Tim-WS
IP: Logged
gudgey
Member
posted 04-11-2001 05:59 PM
Tim
Cant post my easy info for some for some reason keeps timing out.
Gudgey
IP: Logged
crusty64
Member
posted 04-11-2001 05:59 PM
that little ez utility doesn't work with win2k.
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Author
Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
Treget
Member
posted 04-11-2001 06:09 PM
It doesn't want to post, so I'll try again later.
IP: Logged
KhAoS
Member
posted 04-11-2001 06:11 PM
There are some people posting their own things that have fixed problems for themselves here, but it seems not too many people if any are responding to them or confirming what they say.
The right-click issue, is there one?
The issue that it runs ok in window.
Why don't some people with the crash try the game in window thing?
There are a lot of things to try on a system before you get to the 'kill background programs' situation. Some of them do not sound relevant but trust me they can be.
Power management settings. Turn of all power management by windows.
Hardware acceleration, set it down one notch.
Switch off active desktop.
There are other things but thats all I can think of initially. There is no way im saying that these are whats causing it, but these things have caused issues for me and others in the past.
Good luck whoever is interested.
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gc
Member
posted 04-11-2001 06:17 PM
So Tim, whats the deal now? Could you plese take 20 seconds off your busy schedule and answer these questions:
1. Have any WW employe been hit by the "dekstopcrash" bug?
2. Have you given up on finding a fix before 1.005? Or is Delphis old "promise" that there will be no 1.005 before this issue is fixed still on?
Btw for me there was no crash in 120 games, but yesterday i got 2 desktopcrashes in the same day. So some systems there can be more then 120 games between every crash, so I do understand that its hard to find the reason for the crash.
IP: Logged
gudgey
Member
posted 04-11-2001 06:19 PM
This is very true gc
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Core36
Member
posted 04-11-2001 06:42 PM
Heck, if I went 120 games without crash to desktop I'd be overjoyed!!!
Btw, I am trying to play some games in a window right now, but guess what, servers are down can't logon. Gotta love it!
Okay, I just played a game in a window. The game did crash, but differently. I got this error message. This program has performed an illegal operation...here's the error code...
GAME caused an invalid page fault in
module <unknown> at 0000:00000038.
Registers:
EAX=02cc9b74 CS=015f EIP=00000038 EFLGS=00010216
EBX=00000000 SS=0167 ESP=00d6cb28 EBP=0000001d
ECX=fffffffa DS=0167 ESI=01cd88ec FS=294f
EDX=007a4dc8 ES=0167 EDI=04d09b1c GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
9a 00 a4 05 65 04 70 00 07 00 70 d0 4d f8 00 f0
Stack dump:
000004b0 00000000 07184668 04d09b1c 00000000 00000000 00000025 00000026 00000000 00000000 00000025 00000026 0000006e 00000066 00000025 00000026
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-11-2001).]
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-11-2001 07:02 PM
What should you do if the company that made one of your drivers is dead? The company that made my display drivers, Number9 is dead.
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UZI4YOU19
Member
posted 04-11-2001 07:18 PM
Yeah my computer locks up and stops running when i play Red Alert 2. I have to wait like 2 minutes then it goes back to the desk top then i click Red Alert 2 and im back on the battle field, at least it saves the game,i dont lose where i left off!
IP: Logged
UZI4YOU19
Member
posted 04-11-2001 07:22 PM
P.S my computer is out dated too...I have a compaq 7470......544mhz plus 64 mb it needs more memory.......hehehehehe
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Dragon97
Member
posted 04-11-2001 07:47 PM
I ran that EAsy report and it gave me a red deal by my Direct X 7. I should have the newest one out but it says I got a red. Any ideas?
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transnote
Member
posted 04-11-2001 08:28 PM
What needs to be improved???...what doesn't.
>>Video Card : NVIDIA RIVA TNT
>>Video Driver : nvdisp.drv
>>Driver Version : 4.12.01.0618
Fairly recent should be fine as long as this isn't a beta release or reference drivers, make sure you have the latest drivers for your specific video card.
>Sound Card : Creative AWE64 16-bit Audio
>(SB16 compatible)
>Sound Driver : sb16.vxd
>Driver Version : 4.05.00.1998
Upgrade to lastest drivers->SB16.VXD v4.38.16 which can be found at:
http://www.clok.creaf.com/creative/drivers/sb16awe/sbw9xup.exe
>DirectX : DirectX 7
Direct X 8.0a should be installed from
http://www.microsoft.com/directx
>Operating System Windows 98 A 4.10.2222
Do the words WINDOWS UPDATE mean anything?
Perform all critical and recomended updates, including Internet Explorer, remember how tightly integrated it is with the system.
>Computer Name : Tims98
Get a cooler computer name, like Tanya
BIOS Info
Name : Award
Version : Award Modular BIOS v4.51PG
PNP : Plug and Play BIOS
Manufacturer : (Standard system devices)
Now controlled by Unicore, download the BIOS wizard and flash to the latest version
(http://www.unicore.com/bioswiz/)
>CPU Count : 1
>CPU Type : 351 MHz AuthenticAMD AMD K6-2
>5 8 0
How fast is this CPU really? If overclocked, try clocking it at normal speed.
>RAM : 127 MB Total
>42 MB Free
>Virtual RAM : 1513 MB Total
>1480 MB Free
>Operating System : Windows 98 A 4.10.2222
42mb physical memory free, not amazing.
Remove all unneeded lines from autoexec.bat/config.sys. Uninstall or disable any TSR's, especially antivirus. MSCONFIG would be a great option, use selective startup and disable all options for a clean "virgin" boot.
Thats also an insane amount of virtual memory which will result in totally unneeded disk swaps, double the amount of memory would be a good guideline.
>Default Browser : Internet Explorer
>Version : 5.0.2614.3500
As stated earlier, Windows Update.
Latest version of IE 5.5..... (6 is still in beta, lets get 5.5 and all the security patches/hotfixes...ALL the security patches)
>Temp Directory : C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\
>Size : 3 MB
Boot to a safe mode command prompt and do a deltree/y *.* in that directory, and then reboot, you may also wish to change this directory as many programs use it, regardless of the environment variable.
>Number of Displays : 1
Can never have too many displays
>Current Mode (Primary) : 1024x768 16
>Refresh Rate (Primary) : Optimal refresh rate
I hope thats 16-bit color, and not 16-colors. Try 24 or 32 bit color, keep in mind programs designed to display at a certain color depth, may cause more processing converting these colors to a lower depth, then would have been needed to display at the higher depth. In the case of RA2, the res chosen within the game is independant of the res in Windows, make them the same so there is less work when swapping.
>Main Driver : nvdisp.drv
>Version : 4.12.01.0618
>Provider : NVIDIA
This looks familiar, get the latest driver, no overclocking utilities if you have any, again, make sure the correct/latest driver from your manufacturer, not the reference driver, although the ref driver could be tried for troubleshooting.
>Description : Gameport Joystick
>Manufacturer : Microsoft
>Main Driver : vjoyd.vxd
>Version : 4.05.01.1998
>Provider : Microsoft
Whatever joystick (if any) this is, get the proper drivers, not the drivers included in Windows.
>Description : Creative AWE64 Wavetable MIDI >(AWE32 compatible)
>Manufacturer : Creative
>Main Driver : sbawe.vxd
>Version : 4.05.00.1998
>Provider : Microsoft
Get the latest drivers from Creative Labs (http://www.clok.creaf.com/creative/drivers/sb16awe/sbw9xup.exe), don't use the drivers included as a part of Windows as shown here, with the provider being Microsoft.
>DirectX Info
>Version : DirectX 7
Upgrade to the latest version of DirectX, (http://www.microsoft.com/directx), and then REAPPLY it after updating any sound/video drivers, or any other major system change.
>Drive Letter C
>Volume Name : WS_DRIVE_C
>Type : Fixed
>File System : FAT32
>Total Space : 5.99 GB
>Free Space : 1.44 GB
Not a huge amount of space free, but nothing to worry about, consider moving the pagefile to d:, which has a huge amount of free space. This would be even more beneficial if D: was on a seperate IDE channel (as long as that second IDE channel doesn't have a CD-ROM on it, which could bring the hard disk from DMA to PIO mode....)
>Drive Letter D
>Volume Name : WS_DRIVE_D
>Type : Fixed
>File System : FAT32
>Total Space : 11.85 GB
>Free Space : 11.78 GB
Is this drive dedicated to solitare?
>Description : ViewSonic 17GS-2
>Manufacturer : ViewSonic
>Max. Resolution : 1280x1024
Monitor is setup right
>Description : Dial-Up Adapter
>Manufacturer : Microsoft
>Driver : pppmac.vxd
>Provider : Microsoft
>Bound Protocols
>TCP/IP
>IP Address: Obtained from provider
>IP Mask: Obtained from provider
This driver was provided by Windows, not updated by any third party remote access type programs, should be sufficient, again perform windows critical and recomended updates to ensure latest system files.
>Description : Intel(R) PRO/100+ PCI Adapter
>Manufacturer : Intel
>Driver : e100bnt.sys
>Provider : Microsoft
>IPX/SPX-compatible Protocol
>Frame type:Auto
>IPX Address:0
Again, stop using the Windows included driver, update to the latest version from Intel's website.
>Description : PS/2 Compatible Mouse Port
Make sure you have the specific drivers for your mouse, and the latest revision/fixes, keep in mind Logictech drivers seem to cause alot of conflicts....
>Description : IBM enhanced (101- or 102-key)
Any hotkeys on this keyboard, an internet keyboard and just has a generic driver? Update to the latest driver if applicable.
>Description : U.S. Robotics 33.6K FAX EXT
>Driver : U.S. Robotics 33.6K FAX EXT
>Provider : 4-23-1999
Depending on which specific model/type of modem you have, this maybe the latest driver, verify at http://www.usr.com/support/drivers-template.asp?prod=s-modem
>msgsrv32.exe
A neccesary part of Windows, you can't remove this, it's purpose can be found at:
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q138/7/08.asp
>mprexe.exe
Again, a part of the windows logon/network functions, not something we can control
>mmtask.tsk
The multimedia background task support module, helps us deal with loading support for input devices and other tasks, built into windows.
>mstask.exe
Task Sceduler, disable/close/kill it.
>methw95.exe
We should be disabling antivirus programs/scans from starting while troubleshooting, try uninstalling mcafee.
>Explorer
You see the start menu?
>taskmon.exe
TaskMonitor, if you can see it, try closing it, won't hurt.
>Systray
The little icons near the clock on the bottom right, don't close this.
>ddhelp.exe
As long as you have the latest DirectX, should be okay
>spool32.exe
Why the heck are you printing while doing this, if not printing, this process is probably dead, kill it.
>ez.exe
I guess when running EZ you can't exactly close it.
You people might want to do a scanreg/restore to an earlier copy of your registry (backup first please, I assume no liability) before you installed napster and AOL and whatever else, something like an original configuration, then the latest drivers, latest DX and RA2.
K...wheres my signed copy of RA 2? :P
regards
Patrick.
Can you tell I work tech support?
[This message has been edited by transnote (edited 04-11-2001).]
IP: Logged
crusty64
Member
posted 04-11-2001 08:30 PM
wow... and maybe after he does all those updates... he will get the desktop crash also!! woooo hoooo
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CBWhiz
Member
posted 04-11-2001 08:53 PM
So Msgsvr32 is supposed to "re-run the shell if it fails to respond."...
No wonder i can never get rid of it
I only kill it when i defrag - start defrag first ppl Then just Alt-Ctrl-Del and hit shut down if u all want to shut down "normally" Oh BTW heres a tip to destroy explorer just in case u want: Start > Shutdown. select anything, dont matter. hold Ctrl+Alt+Shift and click cancel. Explorer closes, but anything else u had open stays open.
Also, Systray isnt REQUIRED... all it does is show the speaker icon in the tray. Looks awkward without it, so u can leave the little sucker alone if u want.
So perhaps its off topic, but its still informitive..
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-11-2001 09:31 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, Tim...especially the one about posting the EZ text file here.
Just one problem...it won't post!!!
Oh, and just how am I supposed to remove DirectX? that sounds like something that could corrupt my OS which will require three days to fix by reformatting, write scanning, and re installing EVERYTHING.
not after as much time as I have spent working with drivers.
By the way, it's been a day and a half since I sent the EZ report to EA, and about a day since I sent it to you guys. The message was cc'd to webhelp AND ra2help, but no reponse other than that troubleshooting FAQ I have seen a million and one times.
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chanz
Member
posted 04-11-2001 09:59 PM
After I crashed to desktop after 10 games this was all that was added to my folder:
Frames: 28700
Average FPS: 43
Max MaxAhead: 60
Latency setting: 1
Game speed setting: 0
Local address removed by me)
Name: toocul4u
Address removed by me) Max avg round trip: 0
Max round trip: 0
Resends: 0
Frame sync stalls: 23
Command cound stalls: 0
Lost: 0
Percent lost: 0
This was in mpstats.txt. Hope it helps.
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CCRAMaster
Member
posted 04-11-2001 10:16 PM
here is my EAsy Info file: this is from my system:
----EAsy System Summary--------------------------------------
Video Card :SR9 - 8MB SDRAM
Video Driver :cool9.drv
Driver Version :4.11.01.9555
Sound Card :Voice Modem Wave #00 Handset (emulated)
Sound Driver :WaveOut 3
Driver Version :
DirectX : DirectX 7
Operating System :Windows 98 A 4.10.2222
----EAsy System Output---------------------------------------
Sunday, January 00, 1900
Computer Name : Default
BIOS Info
Name :American Megatrends
Date :04/05/00
Version :
PNP :
Manufacturer :, (Standard system devices)
CPU Info
CPU Count :1
CPU Type :599 MHZ AuthenticAMD Athlon
6 1 2
RAM :127 MB Total
64 MB Free
Virtual RAM :1920 MB Total
1860 MB Free
Operating System :Windows 98 A 4.10.2222
Product ID :,(Removed by me)
Default Browser :Internet Explorer
Version :5.0.3020.2100
Temp Directory :c:\windows\TEMP\
Size :13.69 MB
------------------------------------------------------------
----Display Info--------------------------------------------
Number of Displays :1
Current Mode (Primary) :800x600 16
Refresh Rate (Primary) :Optimal refresh rate
Primary display device
Description :SR9 - 8MB SDRAM
Manufacturer :Number Nine Visual Technology
Video Memory :8 MB
Main Driver :cool9.drv
Version :4.11.01.9555
Provider :Number Nine Visual Technology
Supported Display Modes
| 16 | 256 | 16 bits| 24 bits| 32 bits
---------------------------------------------------
640 x 480| | * | * | | *
800 x 600| | * | * | | *
1024x 768| | * | * | | *
1152x 864| | * | * | | *
1280x1024| | * | * | | *
1600x1200| | | | |
------------------------------------------------------------
----Sound, Video and Game Controllers-----------------------
Description :ESS AudioDrive
Manufacturer :ESS Technology, Inc.
Main Driver :solo.SYS
Version :
Provider :ESS Technology, Inc.
Description :Microsoft Kernel System Renderer
Manufacturer :Microsoft
Main Driver :
Version :
Provider :Microsoft
Description :Gameport Joystick
Manufacturer :Microsoft
Main Driver :vjoyd.vxd
Version :4.08.00.0400
Provider :Microsoft
Description :Wave Device for Voice Modem
Manufacturer :Microsoft
Main Driver :serwave.vxd
Version :4.10.00.2222
Provider :Microsoft
Description :Microsoft Kernel Audio Mixer
Manufacturer :Microsoft
Main Driver :
Version :
Provider :Microsoft
Description :Game Compatible Device (emulated)
Manufacturer :
Main Driver :WaveOut 1
Version :
Provider :
Description :Voice Modem Wave #00 Line (emulated)
Manufacturer :
Main Driver :WaveOut 2
Version :
Provider :
Description :Voice Modem Wave #00 Handset (emulated)
Manufacturer :
Main Driver :WaveOut 3
Version :
Provider :
------------------------------------------------------------
[This message has been edited by CCRAMaster (edited 04-11-2001).]
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CCRAMaster
Member
posted 04-11-2001 10:19 PM
----Direct X------------------------------------------------
DirectX Info
Version :,DirectX 7
DirectDraw Info
Version :4.08.00.0400
Certified :Not certified
DirectSound Info
Version :4.08.00.0400
Certified :Certified
DirectPlay Info
Version :4.03.00.1096
DirectInput Info
Version :4.08.00.0400
------------------------------------------------------------
Current Drive Information
Drive Letter C
Description :GENERIC IDE DISK TYPE47
Volume Name :MASTERDRIVE
Manufacturer :,(Standard disk drives)
File System: :FAT32
Total Space: :19.00 GB
Free Space: :12.96 GB
Drive Letter D
Description :IOMEGA ZIP 250
Volume Name :MYDOCUMENTS
Manufacturer :,(Standard disk drives)
File System: :FAT
Total Space: :238.73 MB
Free Space: :75.66 MB
Drive Letter A
Description :GENERIC NEC FLOPPY DISK
Volume Name :
Manufacturer :,(Standard disk drives)
File System: :
Total Space: :0.00 KB
Free Space: :0.00 KB
------------------------------------------------------------
CDRom Info
Number of CDRoms :4
Cache size :982KB
Access Pattern :Quad-speed or higher
CDRom 1
Drive Letter G
Volume Name MASTERDRIVE
Description HITACHI DVD-ROM GD-2500
Manufacturer HITACHI
Sec/MB :5.309265
Detected Speed :7x
CDRom 2
Drive Letter H
Volume Name MYDOCUMENTS
Description SONY CD-RW CRX100E
Manufacturer SONY
Sec/MB :2.892682
Detected Speed :13x
CDRom 3
Drive Letter F
Volume Name
Description V386 PHANTOM CDROM
Manufacturer V386
Sec/MB:Test not performed
Detected Speed:Test not performed
CDRom 4
Drive Letter E
Volume Name
Description V386 PHANTOM CDROM
Manufacturer V386
Sec/MB:Test not performed
Detected Speed:Test not performed
------------------------------------------------------------
[This message has been edited by CCRAMaster (edited 04-11-2001).]
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CCRAMaster
Member
posted 04-11-2001 10:21 PM
----Monitor Information-------------------------------------
Primary monitor
Description :Plug and Play Monitor
Manufacturer :,(Standard monitor types)
Max. Resolution :1600x1200
------------------------------------------------------------
----Network Information-------------------------------------
Description :,Dial-Up Adapter
Manufacturer :Microsoft
Driver :,pppmac.vxd
Provider :Microsoft
Bound Protocols
IPX/SPX-compatible Protocol
Frame type:Auto
IPX Address:0
NetBEUI
TCP/IP
IP Address: Obtained from provider
IP Mask: Obtained from provider
Description :AOL Adapter
Manufacturer :America Online
Driver :aolmac.vxd
Provider :America Online
Bound Protocols
TCP/IP
IP Address: Obtained from provider
IP Mask: Obtained from provider
Description :AOL Dial-Up Adapter
Manufacturer :America Online
Driver :aolmac.vxd
Provider :America Online
Bound Protocols
TCP/IP
IP Address: Obtained from provider
IP Mask: Obtained from provider
Description :,Dial-Up Adapter #2 (VPN Support)
Manufacturer :
Driver :,pppmac.vxd
Provider :
Bound Protocols
IPX/SPX-compatible Protocol
Frame type:Auto
IPX Address:0
NetBEUI
TCP/IP
IP Address: Obtained from provider
IP Mask: Obtained from provider
Description :Microsoft Virtual Private Networking Adapter
Manufacturer :
Driver :netpptp.sys
Provider :
Bound Protocols
NDISWAN
------------------------------------------------------------
----Input Device Information--------------------------------
Mouse Information
Description :Microsoft PS/2 Port Mouse
Type :PS2
Keyboard Information
Description :IBM enhanced (101- or 102-key)
------------------------------------------------------------
----Modem Information---------------------------------------
Modem Info
Description :Creative Modem Blaster Flash56 DE5620-2
Driver :Creative Modem Blaster Flash56 DE5620-2
Provider : 8-29-1998
------------------------------------------------------------
----Glide/OpenGL Information--------------------------------
Glide Info
Glide2 Version :
Glide3 Version :
OpenGL Info
Version :4.0
------------------------------------------------------------
----Task List-----------------------------------------------
msgsrv32.exe
spool32.exe
mprexe.exe
mmtask.tsk
Explorer
Systray
wmiexe.exe
command conquer red alert 2_ez.exe
ddhelp.exe
------------------------------------------------------------
----Autoexec.bat--------------------------------------------
@ECHO OFF
PATH=c:\windows;c:\windows\command;c:\ibmtools;c:\
LH DOSKEY
c:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\NETWOR~1\VIRUSS~1\40~1.XX\scan.exe c:\
@IF ERRORLEVEL 1 PAUSE
C:\essolo.com
------------------------------------------------------------
----Config.sys----------------------------------------------
DEVICE=C:\essolo.sys
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ANSI.SYS [/R]
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\SETVER.EXE
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\DRVSPACE.SYS /MOVE
------------------------------------------------------------
X_CASE_START
X_CASE_DESCRIPTION: Red Alert 2 crashes with NO error message.
It happens when I just move the mouse over something with a health bar.
I have DIRECTX 8.0a. But this program is not reporting it correctly.
X_CONTACT_FIRST_NAME:
X_CONTACT_LAST_NAME:
X_GAME: Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2
X_SERIAL_KEY: ---
X_OPERATING_SYSTEM: Windows 98 A , Version 4.10, Build 2222
X_PROCESSOR: Athlon
X_SPEED: 599 MHz
X_MMX: No
X_RAM: 127 MB
X_MANUFACTURER: HITACHI
X_PRODUCT_ID: HITACHI DVD-ROM GD-2500
X_VIDEO_CARD: SR9 - 8MB SDRAM
X_DISPLAY_DRIVER: 4.11.01.9555
X_DISPLAY_DIRECTX: Not Certified, Hardware Support
X_DISPLAY_MEMORY: 5 MB
X_AUDIO_CERTIFIED: Certified
X_AUDIO_DRIVERS: WaveOut 3
X_MODEM: Creative Modem Blaster Flash56 DE5620-2
X_V_MANUFACTURER: Number Nine Visual Technology
X_A_MANUFACTURER:
X_CASE_END
What should I change?
[This message has been edited by CCRAMaster (edited 04-11-2001).]
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vTWISTARv
Member
posted 04-11-2001 10:24 PM
bump
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CCRAMaster
Member
posted 04-11-2001 10:26 PM
darn smileys...
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-11-2001 10:44 PM
Am I the only one this happens to? I try to run Command Conquer Red Alert 2_EZ and it starts diagnosing my system. The bar goes across the screen and then comes up with:
COMMAND CONQUER RED ALERT 2_EZ caused an invalid page fault in module SIP_CORE.DLL at 0167:1001476e
I've emailed ra2help about this and haven't heard back, but I'm sure they're up to their eyeballs, so I can't blame them. Has anyone else gotten this?
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Zoctan
Member
posted 04-11-2001 10:46 PM
Wow, jigr0. You are so wrong it just isn't funny. Now who was it that said "640K ought to be enough for anybody."? Oh yeah, that was Bill Gates in 1981. Does that hold true today? Hell no. If you use your computer to surf the internet, email and play games once in a while, sure 128MB is enough. Some of us enjoy the performance increase with more RAM, especially when working with graphics editing.
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Eltuna
Member
posted 04-12-2001 07:06 AM
Tim-ws this post has turned out to be very informitive if nothing else I am learning alot about my comp. because of the crash to desktop bug. I feel like i am in class.
Anyway we could move your experment with EasyEA system specs. Somewhere else besides page 5 of this post. This is a good idea but you have to read 5 pages of post before you see it.
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rararick
Member
posted 04-12-2001 07:58 AM
Tim,
What are using to determine the actual version of DirectX? I ran the EZ utility on a machine I know is DirectX 8 and the utility always returns 7.
----Direct X------------------------------------------------
DirectX Info
Version irectX 7
DirectDraw Info
Version :5.01.2462.0000
Certified :Not certified
DirectSound Info
Version :5.01.2462.0000
Certified :Certified
DirectPlay Info
Version :5.00.2134.0001
DirectInput Info
Version :5.01.2462.0000
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 08:16 AM
As Tim stated in an earlier post in this same thread, he is looking into the DirectX not being reported correctly issue, but he stated some peoples reports do say DirectX 8, so he is aware of that situation.
One possibility is that people are installing older programs/games/drivers that are overwriting whatever DirectX related DLL that the system check program looks at...
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Core36
Member
posted 04-12-2001 08:40 AM
Tim, I have a question. You say you have a AMD k6 system and it doesn't crash. You also say you 30 AMD systems you are trying to replicate the crash issue with. I'm just wondering, do you have a system with this configuration?
AMD Athlon
Via / kx133 motherboard
GeForce 2 video
Soundblaster Live
Win98
This combo will crash to desktop if you play 20 or more games on WOL with patch 1004 installed. Guaranteed!
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-12-2001 09:04 AM
I can tell you, Core, that my system is night and day different from those specs and it crashes too.
Some things are the same...Thunderbird 900, Win98, SB Live!, but the differences are the video and the chipset...the AMD750 chipset.
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 09:08 AM
Attention VIA MAINBOARD Users.
Is there a good number of users out there experiencing issues with a VIA Mainboard, SouthBlaster Live, 2 hard disks on seperate ide channels, or a Hard Disk on one channel and a DMA cd-rom on another....if so, GO UPDATE YOUR BIOS.
Affected system boards include KT-133A, Apollo Pro 133 and KX-133A, and AMD-76x.
More at: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/18267.html
Another thing you people fail to realize, is that if the game works fine on an Intel CPU, and you have an AMD CPU which is supposed to use the same instuction set but seems to cause problems, then stop buying AMD.
There may be a bug, not with the game, but with AMD, with a system board, with anything, and I don't think it's westwoods issue.
geezee...everyone is frustrated but fails to use common sense.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-12-2001 09:10 AM
Transnote, the game worked perfectly before patch 1004. Explain that? It is a Westwood issue.
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jrc64
Member
posted 04-12-2001 09:16 AM
transnote:it happens on intel cpu's also. so... use a little common sence and go back and read the posts.
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 09:24 AM
There are very few occasions of it crashing on Intel CPUS, mainly AMD, that seems to be a factor.
Second, if a company creates a program to access a new function or call for the i386 instruction set, that the Intel CPU accepts, but AMD CPU doesn't, then the AMD cpu is flawed as it is an emulation of the Intel chip.
I'm not saying 100% certainty (or even 75%) it's the AMD chip casuing the problem, but the problem may not be Westwood's fault.
No one can seem to prove the issue either way, stop laying blame and listen to what Tim asks for.
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-12-2001 10:06 AM
I'm going to support transnote...
I haven't heard any confirmations on GENUINE crash to desktops on PIII's.
If some PIII claims to have it, then please write down what exactly happens.
I'm gonna flash my bios now so it was nice to have known you all
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-12-2001 10:09 AM
Wow!
I mean, really, WOW!
Nice feedback and I am very pleased with the way this is going.
Transnote - I am this close to disqualifying you from this little contest. That has to be the most well thought out and stated post on how to increase performance I have ever seen. *green with envy!
Guys, do please remember not to flame on this string...we want this to be a friendly discussion. I think you are right...we might want to start a new thread for this 'experiment'.
I hope you guys are getting an idea as to what I am doing here concerning this issue. Transnote has the best response so far (IMHO) and look at the size of it. He also spent more time on it than I get to. I get 800 emails a week in RA2 now. That is the lowest it has been since release. About 600 of those have EZ reports. Can you imagine what it takes to read through and make suggestions for 600 of these reports?
I am a little slow on the RA2 email this week. As I have stated before, spending time here means less time on email.
My little AMD system runs the game perfectly. No errors at all. No other member in all of Westwood has experienced this error. <Yikes! Just found out that Delphi has had this happen before. Maybe I'll go visit him today>Tim-WS
I do not know the exact configuration of our AMD test machines in the lab, so can provide no info on them (sorry).
Teague, email me and put REQUEST NEW EZ SCAN in the subject line. I have a newer build that no longer requires the .dll.
Good point about the power settings. I have sent that out to a few people but haven't mentioned it in a while.
I know there are a lot of users out there that need to update their BIOS. I am afraid to give instructions though. I don't want people blaming me if they mess their systems up.
And Transnote, concerning your last post, I was thinking that also. But the instruction that is failing seems to me to be coming from DirectX 8.0! I can't verify that yet and I hope I am wrong. But I am suspicious.
Again guys, thanx for the great turn out. And as i said, so far Transnote is winning.
Tim-WS
[This message has been edited by Tim-WS (edited 04-12-2001).]
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Thunder47
Member
posted 04-12-2001 10:14 AM
Dunno if this will help or not tim but when i get a desktop crash it generates this in the except.txt.
Error code: EXCEPTION_INT_DIVIDE_BY_ZERO
Description: The thread tried to divide an integer value by an integer divisor of zero.
Exception occurred at 0069A9BD
Just incase this helps. I e-mailed you the rest.
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-12-2001 10:19 AM
Oh, that's not good. I can only suggest that you may have a corrupted file. But can't say for certain until I get the whole except.txt and EZ report.
Tim-WS
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 10:53 AM
>Error code: EXCEPTION_INT_DIVIDE_BY_ZERO
>Description: The thread tried to divide an
>integer value by an integer divisor of
>zero. Exception occurred at 0069A9BD
What operating system does this occur under? I will assume by the message Windows 2000.
Do you have IIS installed or those type of services running? Apply or reapply Service Pack 1 (downloadable from Microsoft free of charge).
When I say reapply Service Pack 1, I mean reinstall it, whenever you install programs or drivers that may have come out before the service pack, they may replace newer files without permission, so REINSTALL IT.
If you are running Windows '98, try using a scanreg/restore and restore your system registry to an earlier version before this was occuring, try and get it to reoccur.
The error you referenced is usually caused by a program/driver referencing an area memory which has been cleared for use by another application, very similar to an access violation.
Since this isn't a common issue, it's most likely not a programming bug of RA2, but possibly a conflict. Causes, as with any problem, include out of date drivers, older system files, or installing AOL (just kidding).
Another cause is possibly a physical issue with the memory, after you've upgraded the BIOS, try removing some of the memory in your system if this is an option, swap it with new memory and see if the problem reoccurs.
This error is indicative of more serious problems then just RA2, do similar errors occur in other applications or at other times, by similar, I mean any error starting with EXCEPTION_*
If it just happened once, don't worry.
If it happens alot, be afraid, very afraid.
[This message has been edited by transnote (edited 04-12-2001).]
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Author
Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
danb2000
Member
posted 04-12-2001 11:20 AM
transnote -
Are you actually suggesting that everyone with an AMD processor that is experiencing this bug go out and buy an Intel processor, just to play a $50.00 game?
I really don't care if I get flamed but this problem did not start until the 1.004 patch!
Tim WS -
How can you give someone making these types of statements so much praise, I hope you were being sarcastic. I will try your suggestion of updating my Bios but why don't you guys just drop everything back to the 1.003 level until you fix the problem? That way ALL of your customers could play.
Dan
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 11:41 AM
danb.
I'm not saying you have to buy an Intel processor, but don't get threatening with a company who produced a game because it doesn't function 100% ---> YET <--- with your NON-INDUSTRY standard processor.
Industry stand is the i386 instruction set.
AMD is an emulation of the Intel chip which supports it.
AMD pays Intel a small fee for every CPU they produce because they are using their technology.
WestWood didn't ask you to buy AMD, they are looking in to the issue, what I'm asking people to do is to take into account every possible scenario before they blame every party they see.
WestWood is investigating the issue, otherwise they wouldn't waste time responding to messages on this board.
I'm asking people to provide fact, to help solve the problem, to upgrade drivers, to stop blaming Westwood for an issue that may not even be their fault.
Once the fault is found, and it will be, will everyone on here send a thank you note to Westwood? Will you send them a dollar for their time.
No, you'll go back to your game, which is what we all want to do.
Since we are working for the same cause, stop blaming, stop flaming, and just deal with facts.
Before you respond to this, with the flame I know you will, think about what FACTS are currently available, and provide a response based on those facts, or don't post at all.
If the users in here follow this logic when RA2 crashes, do you harass Microsoft when Windows crashes?, your phone company when your internet conne
[This message has been edited by transnote (edited 04-12-2001).]
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Koen [TibEd]
Member
posted 04-12-2001 12:04 PM
OK, I'm going to update to DX8a, all my drivers, etc. and see if it fixes anything. If it doesn't, I'll generate a report.
Which makes me think - I installed 1.004 together with DX8... and DX8 is known for it's flaws. Anyone?
I'm using a Logitech mouse with a wheel, could that do any harm?
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Core36
Member
posted 04-12-2001 12:07 PM
transnote, Westwood also didn't have a disclaimer on the box saying "may not function properly with AMD cpu's".
In addition transnote, stop defending Westwood. Westwood(Tim) seems to be addressing a fix now, but its taken us 2 months to get this far. All we heard for the last 2 months is theres no fix coming, there's nothing wrong, its all in your setups and drivers(which is bs). Also, from the tone of your messages, you dont seem to care for AMD cpus, please keep that bias to yourself. All the reviews of AMD cpus are very positive. Plus, you think we should pay them for their time fixing this? Are you nuts? The game worked perfectly for all of us up until 2 months ago. Who's going to repay me for all the time I've wasted trying to fix this. You must be on the Westwood payroll.
Tim-ws, dont take this the wrong way, I do appreciate your help!
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-12-2001).]
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-12-2001 12:16 PM
transnote, I shouldn't need to send them a dollar for their time. I already gave them $42. However, I appreciate the sentiment.
I also think you're underestimating a lot of the people on this board. I'd wager a good portion of the people crashing who have contributed in this string will send a short e-mail or letter thanking the folks at WW for their hard work in this matter.
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 12:38 PM
>transnote, Westwood also didn't have a >disclaimer on the box saying "may not >function properly with AMD cpu's".
They also didn't say may not function with your microwave, I don't have the box here (at work now), but check and tell me if it says something similar to 100% intel compatible CPU or PC compatible.
PC or personal computer has always reffered to compliance with the i386 instruction set.
>In addition transnote, stop defending
>Westwood. Westwood(Tim) seems to be
>addressing a fix now, but its taken us 2
>months to get this far. All we heard for
>the last 2 months is theres nothing wrong,
>its all in your setups and drivers(which is
>bs). Also, from the tone of your messages,
>you dont seem to care for AMD cpus,
>please keep that bias to yourself. All the
>reviews of AMD cpus are very positive.
I don't care what brand I use, but if I buy something at a discount (AMD) I accept the consequences if that device has design flaws. Why don't you yell at AMD?
For those of you saying Westwood hasn't recognized the problem, you don't work in the industry. It looks bad for a company to admit a flaw with their product until they have a fix. No one denied a flaw, they just asked for proof, which no one has provided. No one said it's impossible for a flaw to exist, they just stated they weren't able to reproduce it.
>Plus, you think we should pay them for
>their time fixing this? Are you nuts? The
>game worked perfectly for all of us up
>until 2 months ago. Who's going to repay me
>for all the time I've wasted trying to fix
>this. You must be on the Westwood payroll.
<sarcasm> Yes, thats it, I'm going to send you money for your game playing time </sarcasm>
And as yet, I've not received a job offer from Westwood
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 12:47 PM
TeagueLRC
True, there would be probably from some, but it'll be interesting once we find the cause of the issue to see what happens.
A company doesn't gain reputation for admitting bugs before a solution (if it is a bug in their programming). Even if it's not a bug in their programming, they'll usually do their best to try and resolve it.
Look at all the Internet Explorer security issues for example, posted to bug traq, provided to newsgroups and mailing lists, security professionals, but usually no official Microsoft response until they have a resolution in place, or can at least provide details on what the resolution will be.
You can bet your first born child, the minute Westwood got 20 e-mails about the same issue, someone high up on the Westwood technical ladder got a phone call or a page, and then stayed up all that night.
All issues aside, lets deal with fact everyone, not guesses, not blame.
If Westwood wasn't taking this seriously, this thread would have been long deleted.
[This message has been edited by transnote (edited 04-12-2001).]
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-12-2001 12:48 PM
Core,
Transnote is right, AMD is a NON Standerd CPU and it only emulates i386. Why do you think the AMD cpu's are a little cheaper?
Also I dont think anyone should send westwood a dollar for fixing this problem. The $50 should cover and tech support needed. If westwood did not want to deal with any AMD issues they would have put 'FOR USE ON INTEL CPUS ONLY' on the box.
Tim,
Is it to late to revise my post in your contest?
[This message has been edited by -FreeLaNce- (edited 04-12-2001).]
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-12-2001 12:55 PM
Just checked the system requirements on the box.. Here they are:
"PC-CDROM, Windows 95,98, NT 6.0, 2000, and ME,(IMPORTANT PART)P2 266"
and the multiplayer requirements are:
"P2 450, 128MB RAM"
So technically people with AMD proccesers dont even meet the system requirments so westwood could stop tech support on this whole AMD issue right now so BE GLAD!!
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:00 PM
Don't most games put P2 x or P3 y as the minimum on their system requirements?
I don't think I've ever seen one that said P2 x or an AMD K-6(2) x processor for the minimum.
[This message has been edited by TeagueLRC (edited 04-12-2001).]
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gc
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:05 PM
"My little AMD system runs the game perfectly. No errors at all. No other member in all of Westwood has experienced this error. <Yikes! Just found out that Delphi has had this happen before. Maybe I'll go visit him today>Tim-WS"
Thanks for taking some time off and answer my question. The fact that you have yet to experience a crash might be because you havent played that many games on your slow AMD computer, have you played 100+ RA2 games on it?
But its good to hear that Delphi has seen it with his own eyes, that makes me happy.
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gc
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:07 PM
LOL freelance you are an idiot.
My "AMD" -chip runs at 1,2Ghz and my game crashes to desktop around every 40 games. I do think my 1,2Ghz AMD chip and 256mb RAM is supposed to be able to run the game?
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homer28
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:13 PM
I've got to agree with some of the above comments.
At the risk of repeating what's been said countless times before it is very difficult to prove if there is a bug/technincal issue or whatever you want to call it without being able to reproduce it.
In the scientific community for example if you were to trying to account for an observation without being able to reproduce the results you'd be torn to pieces (I've experienced this first hand Ph.D. vivas not nice!!).
I've personally never experienced the desktop bug but know people that have. By eliminating certain possibilites (e.g. freeing up memory bios upgrades) at least westwood will be able to spend more time looking at genuine causes.
WOL and RA2 are by no means perfect and god knows I could spend ages ranting about my grievances but flaming the moderators isn't going to achieve anything and just **** them off.
I'm sure they're doing their best to resolve it.
Hmmm hope it doesn't turn out to be DX8. That would be a bit of a ****
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teslaaaa
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:13 PM
transnote is suggesting that we amd people should think that its our processors which are flawed.
1. the game worked fine 2 mounths ago. no flaws in the amd design then.
2. every other game in the world works with amd or intel. never have i heard of a game that only works with one or the other.
<flame portion removed - try to be proactive, don't flame>Tim-WS
[This message has been edited by Tim-WS (edited 04-12-2001).]
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:21 PM
>Also I dont think anyone should send
>westwood a dollar for fixing this problem.
I didn't mean to imply I think we should be paying for it, but just to be reasonable.
>If westwood did not want to deal with any
>AMD issues they would have put 'FOR USE ON
>INTEL CPUS ONLY' on the box.
I'm at work right now, can you go tell me EXACTLY what the CPU requirement is?
I can't find it on WestWood's site, but on the following sites it is listed as:
GameSpot Uk: Min CPU: PII 266 or equivalent
http://www.gamespot.co.uk/filters/products/t
tchinfo/0,2193,32436,00.html
GameSpot USA: System: PII 266 or equivalent
http://www.zdnet.com/gamespot/filters/products/tech/0,11106,914165,00.html
Electronic Boutique: P266...........
http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=182890&mscssid=&ref=1&PromoCode=
Daily Rader: Pentium II 266 MHz or Higher
http://www.dailyradar.com/reviews/game_review_968.html
Keep in mind, P2 or Pentium 266 refers to Intel's PENTIUM trademark, AMD is not a pentium.
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Booch84
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:27 PM
I am a software engineer. I have been programming computers for 18 years. To suggest that the desktop bug is caused by an unsupported instruction in AMD processors is simply laughable. The i386 instruction set really isn't that big and AMD processors support every one of them. In fact, AMD actually has additional instructions on top of those in i386. In other words, you can write software for an AMD that won't work on an Intel, but you can't write code for an Intel that won't work on AMD.
The only possible way for it to be an AMD problem is if there is a flaw in their manufacturing process. If that were the case, the problem would appear in any program that does the same calculation, not just RA2. Also, AMD would be able to tell you the serial #'s of the chips with the bug (the way Intel did when it had a bug in the first Pentiums). I have heard of no so such announcment from AMD.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:28 PM
I see the box says "PII 266 or equivalent" What would be equivalent...AMD is my guess. Maybe I'm wrong.
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:35 PM
>transnote is suggesting that we amd people
>should think that its our processors which
>are flawed.
The only thing I've suggested is that it's a possibility.
>game worked fine 2 mounths ago. no flaws in
>the amd design then.
So Westwood upgraded their game to make it play and work better (no flames on that please) and it may use new functions on instructions on a processor. It works fine on the intel cpu, so there isn't a programming problem, do the math.
>every other game in the world works with
>amd or intel. never have i heard of a game
>that only works with one or the other.
Thats the most unqualified statement I've ever heard, there were many games that had specific AMD patches, if you really care to debate this I'll go find some URLs for you
>thats a gay Philosophy, your just a
>intelboy who payed more for a processor >which does the exact same thing and to make >yourself feel better you bidch at everyone >elses brands, i have personally met peaople
>like you and proved them wrong, right in
>front of there faces, and they still claim
>theres is better.
So far the only proof is that you are uninformed. I own an AMD K-6, and several other systems including Intel. Run Linux on some, Windows on some others, I buy what gets the job done, and I don't jump to conclusions to lay blame.
Plus I'm not "bidching", I'm asking people to provide facts.
And Core...
>I see the box says "PII 266 or equivalent"
>What would be equivalent...AMD is my guess.
>Maybe I'm wrong.
It's not Westwood's claim that AMD is equivalent, it's AMD's.
We still haven't narrowed the problem down, it may not even be an AMD issue, if I could tell you what the problem is then I'd probably know enough to fix it.
All I've asked, is that people listen, and people provide facts, not flames.
Westwood is looking at it, so calm down.
[This message has been edited by transnote (edited 04-12-2001).]
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danb2000
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:38 PM
transnote -
First of all I don't flame people, I never have and I hope I never will. What gets me so upset about this situation is that Westwood will not recognize the fact that these problems all started AFTER the 1.004 patch. Before that everything ran fine. Why not just drop everyone back to the 1.003 level until they solve the problem? Further, it seems to me that they are spinning there wheels by looking at shutting down all background programs as a "fix". Its not and never will be a fix, a workaround maybe, but certainly not a fix.
In any event I do appreciate your cool head, we can have a difference of opinion and still have an adult conversation. I don't write here often simply because of the quality of the posts I see in most of the threads.
Best regards,
Dan
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Roopii
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:46 PM
Are you sure you have the best DirectX version?? 8.0a??
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epidimick
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:49 PM
Direct x 8b is out now. Also just got a new amd and a ali motherboard instead of a via. I will see ifit makes any differnce.
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Booch84
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:50 PM
transnote:
"Thats the most unqualified statement I've ever heard, there were many games that had specific AMD patches, if you really care to debate this I'll go find some URLs for you"
There are two kinds of patches that were released for software on AMD processors:
1. Some programs actually ID the chip to make sure they meet the minimum requirements. Software released before the AMDs often would check for Intel processors and simply not run if they found anything else. It wasn't that they couldn't work, they just wouldn't try. This type of patch simply removed the processor check.
2. The other type of patch were performance patches. These patches improved performance by using the additional instructions of the AMD that the Intel did not have.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:56 PM
Transnote is a troll sent here to stir up trouble.
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:57 PM
Danb.
Agreed, sometimes text isn't the best way to express ones opinions and it comes out the wrong way, my text included.
According to previous Westwood reports about 500-1000 of 3 million potential online players are reporting the issue, personally I love the 1.04 changes, especially the visible pings now, and from a business perspective (and only a business perspective) it may not be a move.
I understand most people aren't concerned about this perspective, but Westwood has to be. If they weren't, they may not even have gotten to the Dune II era......I miss that game
If you think we are worried about the outcome of this issue, imagine Tim's supervisors and managment, the way people are talking on here, they are probably expecting a mass raid of the Westwood Campus/Building..... (NO I AM NOT ENCOURAGING ONE)
regards
transnote.
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Booch84
Member
posted 04-12-2001 01:59 PM
transnote:
"Attention VIA MAINBOARD Users"
This is a much more plausible theory. The VIA MVP3 chipset had lots of problems early on. It is a good chipset (after you update the BIOS and load current drivers) and it is a very popular choice for AMD processors.
If there is any correlation between AMD users and this bug, I would place my money on the VIA MVP3 chipset. If it is the problem, you don't need to buy a new motherboard, just update your BIOS (like transnote described) and load the current chipset drivers (look for the VIA 4in1 driver available on their site). The most important question to ask is:
Has anyone out there experienced this bug who is NOT running a VIA MVP3 based motherboard?
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Core36
Member
posted 04-12-2001 02:01 PM
transnote/troll, you tell us, what did Westwood mean by saying this..."PII 266 or equivalent"?
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DarthMonkey
Member
posted 04-12-2001 02:01 PM
Check out my post Desktop crashes....
It may help.
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Booch84
Member
posted 04-12-2001 02:06 PM
transnote:
"Attention VIA MAINBOARD Users"
This is a much more plausible theory. The VIA MVP3 chipset had lots of problems early on. It is a good chipset (after you update the BIOS and load current drivers) and it is a very popular choice for AMD processors.
If there is any correlation between AMD users and this bug, I would place my money on the VIA MVP3 chipset. If it is the problem, you don't need to buy a new motherboard, just update your BIOS (like transnote described) and load the current chipset drivers (look for the VIA 4in1 driver available on their site). The most important question to ask is:
Has anyone out there experienced this bug who is NOT running a VIA MVP3 based motherboard?
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 02:10 PM
booch84.
again, back yourself up with fact.
A patch for Win 2k video coruption specifically with AMD CPUS
http://www.amd.com/products/cpg/athlon-duron/amd_win2k_patch.html
BSD specific AMD patches
http://www.monkey.org/openbsd/archive/misc/0010/msg00603.html
Installing or Execuring SolidWorks on an AMD CPU
http://www.solidworks.com/swdocs/support/AMD/
I just did a quick search, there were thousands of other hits, alot of these patches are more then "performance", they are required because of differences in the AMD vs Intel processor.
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DarthMonkey
Member
posted 04-12-2001 02:15 PM
Ok, I have the 75? amd chipset for my motherboard. Is that the same as the MVP3?
Like I said in my post, the only time the game crashes on me is when I use the cd autoread menu to start a game. Otherwise it runs just fine.
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 02:19 PM
Core:
>transnote/troll, you tell us, what did
>Westwood mean by saying this..."PII 266 or
>equivalent"?
Again, I can't speak for Westwood, any depending on how big a company Westwood is, I don't know if that was put on their by a technical person, a marketing person, or a higher power, such as the legal deptartment, to avoid legal action in just such an event like this.
PII 266 --> PROBABLY <-- means the Intel Pentium 2 processor (codenamed Klamath) running at 266mhz with an integrated (on dye) 16kb level 1 cache, a 512kb cache (not on dye), with and SECC (single edge contact cartridge) connection, with a 66mhz system bus speed, or a product that meets 100% compatability with this.
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 02:26 PM
>Epidimick: Direct x 8b is out now. Also
>just got a new amd and a ali motherboard
>instead of a via. I will see ifit makes any
>differnce.
No it is not. D3DX 8.0b is out, not the same as DirectX as we refer to it as. This is intended for developers, it does not affect end users, it's a series of developer tools.
More information can be found on this at:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/release.asp?ReleaseID=29079
This is NOT a recomended upgrade or download for any of you out there.
[This message has been edited by transnote (edited 04-12-2001).]
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DarthMonkey
Member
posted 04-12-2001 02:39 PM
DX8.0a has been out for a few months nows. I got it as soon as it came out. Go there and look. Also look around fileplanet, it's there too...............
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DarthMonkey
Member
posted 04-12-2001 02:41 PM
crap, sorry I need to learn how to read. didn't see the "b". Again, sorry about that.
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WaveCable
Member
posted 04-12-2001 04:08 PM
My friend and I just played our first 4 player game in 40 days thanks to ver 4 patch.
he played RA2 in a window and it worked. Maybe it was just good luck, I dont know...well play some more and i'll let ya know if he gets the crash again.
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Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
crusty64
Member
posted 04-12-2001 04:13 PM
Transnote: that is incorrect... you do not have to reinstall service packs in windows 2000. Microsoft corrected the "feature" of windows NT, that required that you reinstall service packs anytime the winnt director was touched.
I do love reading your posts though
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Halcyon
Administrator
posted 04-12-2001 04:13 PM
<----Watches Tim-WS run for cover...this transnote could be looking to replace him. Hey, Tim, can I have your pencil cup? It's pretty nifty. Just kidding, just kidding.
-Halcyon
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Core36
Member
posted 04-12-2001 04:14 PM
I played 5 games in a window last night and none crashed to desktop.
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Dragon97
Member
posted 04-12-2001 04:43 PM
How do you tell if you have a Via Mainboard? If I did have the Via Mainboard wouldnt my computer be crashing in games like UT, Black and White and the other games I have played? I have had no problems with this computer untill I got Red Alert 2 and the 1.004 patch. Also Transnote WW has already said it isnt a AMD related problem, it happens on Intels as well. I dont know I just want to play the game without crashing every game.
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Petrouski01
Member
posted 04-12-2001 04:45 PM
bbleehehehe, i have never desktop chrashed thing
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-12-2001 04:50 PM
This may have been posted at one time or another, and I apologize if I'm asking for information that can be found elsewhere. If so, please nudge me in the right direction.
How does one run RA2 in a window? I'm going to give it a shot and see if it helps.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-12-2001 04:54 PM
TeagueLRC, to run RA2 in a window, create a shortcut and point it to "ra2.exe -win"
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Jumpjet
Member
posted 04-12-2001 05:17 PM
I dont know about anyone else, but this running RA2 in a window works for me! I crashed to desktop every game without fail, but i've just gone 3 games without a crash. We may just have found something here...
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-12-2001 05:18 PM
Thanks Core. I'll try it out and keep my fingers crossed.
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 05:19 PM
Halcyon
Is it a really nice pencil holder? You know, if he's got a leather chair too, I'd be willing to pay someone to ensure I receive those.... :P
crusty64
After looking at what you said, I found a document explaining update.exe (http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/library/unzippeddocs/SPDeploy.doc). I seem to be incorrect and you are right, however in some circumstances I have absolutely seen differences, expecially after people install older apps such as utilities like antivirus or laptop pc card services. I'll phone someone up as MS tommorow and try and get a clarification, but as the proof stands, you're right.
Dragon97:
>Also Transnote WW has already said it isnt
>a AMD related problem,
First problem with that statement is I don't work for Westwood....yet... no one will tell me where to fill out a resume, and I REALLY want Tim's pencil holder
Second is that like everyone here, anything I say in regards to the cause of this issue is theory, and all I stated is that the facts point (but don't prove) to AMD being related to the problem.
I LOVE YOU GUYS
peace
[This message has been edited by transnote (edited 04-12-2001).]
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-12-2001 07:21 PM
I had my first desktop crash during a single player game today. I'm going to try running it in a window and we'll see where it goes from there.
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transnote
Member
posted 04-12-2001 07:45 PM
Ok..since you just had a first crash, lets test it, if you are willing.
Boot your system from a Windows '98 boot diskette or to a safe mode command prompt
Run scanreg/backup, this will create a backup of your system registry we can restore to later
Then run scanreg/restore again from this command prompt and restore to a period of approximately a week ago and tell me if the crash occurs.
If it's not happening, then lets restore your registry back to the backup we made originally and see if it's happening.
If you had ConfigSafe you could use it to take registry snapshots and then compare changes in those snapshots, all the laptops I play the game on are Intel machines otherwise I'd get the problem to occur and inbound the machine to Westwood for root cause analysis.
Is anyone who has the issue occuring willing to create a ghost image of their computer and mail it out to Westwood if they could put together a similar system configuration or at least temporarily obtain the correct hardware?
Is your system overclocked?
And what video card do you have, some kind of NVidia card???...try the detonater 3 drivers after you've backed up the current registry......
[This message has been edited by transnote (edited 04-12-2001).]
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-12-2001 08:45 PM
Actually, I know now running RA2 in a window may be worst. You will get a "THIS PROGRAM HAS PERFORMED AN ILLEGAL OPERATION AND WILL BE SHUT DOWN" error instead of a game crash. I can't get the technical stuff b/c I cannot see my desktop...the game freezes in place but the computer isn't frozen...you can't see the mouse move either. This does not happen when full screen mode.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-12-2001 08:47 PM
gc,
"LOL freelance you are an idiot.
My "AMD" -chip runs at 1,2Ghz and my game crashes to desktop around every 40 games. I do think my 1,2Ghz AMD chip and 256mb RAM is supposed to be able to run the game?"
Your ignorance amazes me. You have an uncany inablity to read! The box says it requires a P2 266Mhz Or Higher.. NOTICE the PENTIUM 2. You have an AMD Chip so technically you do not meet the system requirments.
Core and transnote,
I'm looking at my box right now and it does not say PII 266 or equivalent it just says P2 266Mhz. I have the collectors edition.
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Mrs. B
Member
posted 04-12-2001 08:52 PM
The typical RA2 player does not have any thing running in the back ground and he crashes to the desktop about every 30 games, for some reason when it happens to me the game does not record, but i have had others crash and i got the win. (I talked to them after words) so this is a bug or somthing and it just accorded after the 1.4 so WW should stop saying its from background prgrams and fix it.
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CCRAMaster
Member
posted 04-12-2001 09:07 PM
Ok, I just uninstalled completely, and reinstalled RA2. I reinstalled DirectX 8.0a to refresh it. Shut everything down except explorer. And guess what.
It crashed in the first game. The FIRST GAME!!!! Quite contrary to what Westwood is saying, it appears that if I have MSN explorer, VirusScan w/o System Scan enabled, MSWHEEL, atbeztz, RAMBOOSTER, hawk_32, and AOL running, RA2 seems to go LONGER without a desktop crash than if I had only explorer running. Coincidence?
WW, this is a bug. A VERY bad and NASTY bug.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-12-2001 09:13 PM
-FreeLaNce-, I bet if you ask Westwood if the AMD athlon chip meets the cpu requirements, they would say YES.
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CCRAMaster
Member
posted 04-12-2001 09:16 PM
LOL! A game that would work on a Pentium but not on AMD? Thats laughable.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-12-2001 09:17 PM
Core.. Technically arcording to the box (which is what you see when you buy the game) it says the game requires a P2 not AMD. All Im saying is that you guys should be glad that westwoods is trying to do somthing because technically they could just say AMD cpus are not supported but they are not because they ARE trying to help.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-12-2001 09:22 PM
Do you guys have reading problems?? Im not saying that the game does not work on AMD cpus.. Im just stateing that the box says it requires a Pentium 2 it does not say AMD and Pentium 2 it just says Pentium 2.
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-12-2001 09:24 PM
Maybe its a typo...because in the credits and the manual it says Intruder instead of Harrier.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-12-2001 09:30 PM
I doubt it.. i'll check the ra2 site in a min.
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athon_solo
Member
posted 04-13-2001 12:06 AM
Just adding my comments to the nic list...
WW: On the box for RA2 it states that you only need 64MB of RAM, so why would there be a problem if a user on 128MB has a couple of programs running that cuts it down to 100MB, that still leaves nearly 40MB buffer space between requirements and availability!
Get the bloody patch out already!
And for all those who don't know s**t, it is perfectly possible for the desktop crash bug to be realted to the following:
1. AMD Processors - perhaps a combination of AMD processors with certain other hardware, middleware or software is causing the main bug - I have definitely seen far less posts where users having the problem are running Intel's.
2. Memory - In my opinion as a programmer, I believe the problem is likely to be being caused by a memory leak or some memory management problem. I have had similar problems with other software before, at this appears similar.
Athon Solo
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transnote
Member
posted 04-13-2001 12:20 AM
I wish someone could debug there memory when it happens to see what remnants of RA2 reside in active memory, unfortunately it's not happening on my system but I wish it was
When it crashes to desktop, and you do a CTRL-ALT-DEL what is shown? RA2? GAME@? ~EF9339? Something else similiar, all of these?
No messages about how "you" wish it was happening on my system okay guys? Actually, I was that adementium character had it, I wish he crashed to desktop when he tried to post a forum message.
>Just adding my comments to the nic list...
>WW: On the box for RA2 it states that you
>only need 64MB of RAM, so why would there
>be a problem if a user on 128MB has a
>couple of programs running that cuts it
>down to 100MB, that still leaves nearly
>40MB buffer space between requirements and
>availability!
WW is trying to narrow down the cause of the problem. I had one system crash when I leave real player loaded as an example. First problem determination step for issues, I prefer they close everything and get the issue to occur which I believe people have.
Memory problems can also be caused by a lack of physical memory.
Can I get a show of hands, how many people without VIA mainboards are having the issue?
And is anyone with just 64mb having the problem, or 128mb and above?, possibly a memory address conflict? If it seems to be happening more to 128mb users, can anyone here try downgrading to 64mb and see if it happens?
[This message has been edited by transnote (edited 04-13-2001).]
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-13-2001 01:46 AM
if you look on the ez report on a k62 it has a red circle next to cpu requirments,meaning
that it is not p2 compatable.with the athlon
this is not so it has a green circle meaning
it is fully compatable
i have an amd athlon 800
256megs of hyundi branded ram
plextor 40 scsi cd rom
nvidia tnt2 32meg graphics
amd 750chipset (ga-71xe4 mainboard0
soundblaster 128 (creative)
i get kicked to desktop every game within 10 mins
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WaveCable
Member
posted 04-13-2001 05:41 AM
transnote-
My last computer had a via motherboard and I only had one crash to the desktop after about 300 games. After the crash I tested my memory. Turns out I had a bad stick of RAM. Just as a test I played a few more games and sure enough bang...crash, crash, crash...no error messages etc...just a desktop! After changing my RAM everything was fine again.
Thought it was funny that my bad ram recreated the desktop crash. Makes me think that it may be a memory address issue for most people.
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-13-2001 06:40 AM
So, robbydog, have you ever had a problem with your fans cutting off on that Gigabyte board?
I have that same board, GA-7IXE4, .The cpu fan socket won't work, and the CPU fan is plugged in to the power fan socket. It's slowing down causing tha alarm to go off.
To transnote:
AMD 751 IRONGATE NORTH BRIDGE AND AMD 756 VIPER SOUTH BRIDGE. There's NOTHING VIA in my computer AT ALL. At leat, nothing that's marketed as VIA.
My wife has a totally different board...a Biostar M7VKB. It crashes to the desktop. Mine crashes to the desktop.
As far as AMD goes, I don't think it's fair to say one chip isn't compatible with RA2 because most people are gonna think "equivalent" means AMD. I don't know much about how they compare.
I am through with AMD though. One of their chips (which has no thermal protection) caught fire and nearly ruined my whole system. Both the mainboard and the fan were AMD recommended. My local Computer Rip-Off has caught Thunderbirds on fire with AMD recommended fans.
My Gigabyte board, despite the BIOS settings, didn't shut down either, resulting in damage to the CPU socket and the CPU fan's power socket.
I am helping a friend build a computer and I have finally convinced him to buy Intel on account of this.
I really am disappointe with Westwood, though, no matter if it's a certain piece of hardware at fault. They had a game that worked well, and now it's broken.
Like AMD, I am through with Westwood, too.
[This message has been edited by shadow461 (edited 04-13-2001).]
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-13-2001 06:47 AM
1. First I'd like to know if everybody is talking about the REAL crash to desktop.
Some people last week were complaining about it but they didn't have the "back to desktop & no error".
2. I have brandless RAM thingies so might it be plausible to set time to a "slower" setting in bios so they will become more reliable ??? Transnote, Tim ?? Or would this be just be just BS ?? How do I check the reliability of my RAM ??
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transnote
Member
posted 04-13-2001 06:59 AM
Testing the ram can be done by many utilities. If you have a brand name computer, the manufacturer may have utilities to do so.
If not, you may wish to try a simple program you can download from:
http://hotfiles.zdnet.com/cgi-bin/texis/swlib/hotfiles/info.html?fcode=0014L8&b=help
Running this program will prompt you to create a bootable disk, you then boot your system from this diskette and continue with the diagnostics process.
Keep in mind, diagnostics are never full proof, and not always 100% acurate.
Is removing some memory or replacing it an option for testing?
I don't think changing the timing will really afftect you......you aren't overclocking you CPU are you?
Also make sure you go to http://www.amd.com/support/software.html and download any patches relavent to your system, there are a few on there.
[This message has been edited by transnote (edited 04-13-2001).]
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-13-2001 07:48 AM
no shadow i havnt had a prob with my fans cutting out.
also i did not say amd is not compatable with
red alert2.all im saying is, in the ez report
it says for the k62 that it is not recognised
as pentium2
but the athlon is recognised as pentium class
also i built this comp myself so i know every
thing thats in it
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-13-2001 07:54 AM
im only saying this because some people are saying that athlon and duron are not pentium compatable
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or3st
Member
posted 04-13-2001 09:24 AM
WW, I'm convinced that "Crash to Desktop" is a punishment for not supporting Linux. :-P The "Open Source Spirits" are taking big revenge on you. Hehehe :->
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wildwezl@work
Member
posted 04-13-2001 10:06 AM
Why does the ez report read varying amounts of memory? I had 128, added another 128 for total 256 last week. Shut down all except systray and explorer and srategic commander and ez reports shows 256 total 55-65 available. Turning strat comm off saves 1mb.
Next time run shows 171 available same progs open. Whazzup?
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-13-2001 10:07 AM
Ok gang, this is gonna be a long one. Prolly the only one for most of the day too, I have a lot of email to catch up on (about 500). I will post at about 5:00PM PST to verify the winner....prizes are going to include games, tshirts, mouse pads, pins, a few things.
Danb: I give him praise for two reasons...he has a lot of technical knowledge and he presents it well.
Core: I just want you to know I have been working on this issue since it first reared it's ugly head. The reason I am here now is because I ran out of RA2 email. It is getting harder for me to verify this. By coming here I hoped to generate enough concern from YOU GUYS to get a solution...looks like it's working.
Freelance: You can make changes to your 'suggestions for TimsAMD' until COB (close of Business) today, 5:00PM PST.
gc: I have only played about 30 or 40 on this system since the update.
Booch84: I am not suggeting it, but I am suspicious. There have been industry 'incidents' in the past....
Halcyon: Keep your greedy little fingers off of my Granny Vader Pencil Cup!
Athlon_Solo: Once again, it may not be too little, might be an actual conflict with something else. I'd have to look at and know all of your tasks. There are probably about 5000 new tasks created in the world every day. This part is getting harder to do.
My latest belief is that it may ba a combination of your processor (AMD), your video card, and DirectX 8.0.Lots of test combos to check.
I too am seeing a lot of systems with 'missing' resources. Garbage collecting can be hard to track on all of those apps.
Wave: interesting...
Shadow: Wow! What an incredible string of bad luck you have had. I am very sorry for you. As for being done with Westwood, I hope not, but if you do go, I will miss you.
Or3st: LOL!
everyone: So far this has been about the best thread I can remember as far as flaming goes. A couple of you started too but kept it to a minimum. Thank you. Please remember...this should be a proactive thread...not a flame fest...I think that thread is somewhere else....
SPECIAL!
Halcyon just told me she is going to bring her digital camera in for a few shots of the office including the pencil cup...and special guest star...Bob the Wonder plant!
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-13-2001 10:40 AM
Trans, I'm afraid I bailed on you last night after I posted. I started another single player game which ran okay for about 10 minutes before my wife wanted to work on her thesis. "I want to fix RA2." doesn't stack up well against "I want to graduate from grad school.".
Anyway, I can answer a few of your questions:
I'm not overclocked, I do have an NVidia card and I do have the D3 driver installed. I printed your post and the next time I crash, which will probably be this weekend, I'll give it a try.
Incidentally, when I said it was my first crash in a single player game, it wasn't my first crash overall. I crash like a brick falling from the sky in multiplayer.
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Author
Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-13-2001 11:18 AM
Halcyon is female?? Wow hook me up!! Wait one sec is she hot?? Also I only to 2 entrys in your contest so how bout we both get prizes .
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transnote
Member
posted 04-13-2001 11:19 AM
Tim
Why are you ignoring me, WHERE IS THE PENCIL HOLDER?
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-13-2001 12:04 PM
----EASy System Summary--------------------------------------
Video Card : NVIDIA RIVA TNT
Video Driver : nvdisp.drv
Driver Version : 4.12.01.0618
****UPDATE… There are new Video Drivers at- http://www.nvidia.com/products.nsf/htmlmedia/detonator3.html
Sound Card : Creative AWE64 16-bit Audio (SB16 compatible)
Sound Driver : sb16.vxd
Driver Version : 4.05.00.1998
****UPDATE..There are new Sound Card Drivers at- http://www.soundblaster.com/drivers/
DirectX : DirectX 7 ****UPDATE.. get DirectX 8a at- http://www.microsoft.com/directx
Operating System Windows 98 A 4.10.2222 ****UPDATE..D/L Latest Patches and updates for windows at-http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/
----EASy System Output---------------------------------------
Computer Name : Tims98
BIOS Info
Name : Award
Version : Award Modular BIOS v4.51PG
PNP : Plug and Play BIOS
Manufacturer : (Standard system devices) ****NOTE..Not sure if this is the latest bios rev. but you shouldn’t need to get the latest if your not having any major problems
CPU Info
CPU Count : 1
CPU Type : 351 MHz AuthenticAMD AMD K6-2 ****UPDATE..I would recommend getting a faster CPU maybe a AMD K6-2 500Mhz or 550Mhz you can find good prices for them at www.pricewatch.com
RAM : 127 MB Total
42 MB Free
****DOWNLOAD.. D/L this program that will allow you to free memory, I would recommend freeing your memory before playing a game then closing the program. This program automatically frees your memory if you run to low so if you leave it open while playing the game there may be a point where your game will run really slow for 30-60 secs. Get it at- http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/system/maxmem.htm
Virtual RAM : 1513 MB Total
1480 MB Free
****CHANGE SETTING.. Set your Virtual RAM lower maybe around 500 Megs. 1 Gig of VRAM will just make your hard drive sluggish and you do not need this much inless you are using some kind of app that requires this much
Default Browser : Internet Explorer
Version : 5.0.2614.3500
****UPDATE.. Get the latest Internet Explorer(I would recommend getting 5.5 and not 6.0 because all the bugs in 6.0 have not been worked out yet) http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/default.htm
Temp Directory : C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\
Size : 3 MB
------------------------------------------------------------
----Display Info--------------------------------------------
Number of Displays : 1
Current Mode (Primary) : 1024x768 16 ****NOTE.. Put on true color(32Bit), its not required or anything but it looks nice.
Refresh Rate (Primary) : Optimal refresh rate
----CDRom Info----------------------------------------------
Cache size : 1238 KB
Access Pattern : Quad-speed or higher
Drive Letter A
Volume Name :
Type : Floppy
File System :
Total Space : 0.00 KB
Free Space : 0.00 KB
Drive Letter C
Volume Name : WS_DRIVE_C
Type : Fixed
File System : FAT32
Total Space : 5.99 GB
Free Space : 1.44 GB
****NOTE.. Clean up some drive space and defrag.
Drive Letter D
Volume Name : WS_DRIVE_D
Type : Fixed
File System : FAT32
Total Space : 11.85 GB
Free Space : 11.78 GB
****NOTE.. Not sure what you have on here but don’t expect to put on much more.
Drive Letter E
Volume Name : RA2
****NOTE.. Never take the RA2 CD out at all cost, use it as often as possible
Type : CDRom
File System : CDFS
Total Space : 607.34 MB
Free Space : 0.00 KB
Sec/MB : Test not performed
Detected Speed : Test not performed
<NOTE: other drive info removed for training purposes>Tim-WS
****NOTE.. Got something to hide eh??
------------------------------------------------------------
----Input Device Information--------------------------------
Mouse Information
Description : PS/2 Compatible Mouse Port
****UPDATE.. Can you say Optical Mouse?
Keyboard Information
Description : IBM enhanced (101- or 102-key)
------------------------------------------------------------
----Modem Information---------------------------------------
Description : U.S. Robotics 33.6K FAX EXT **** Woaaa what are you using this for?? Maybe if you apply some wax it might go faster
Driver : U.S. Robotics 33.6K FAX EXT
Provider : 4-23-1999
------------------------------------------------------------
----Task List-----------------------------------------------
****NOTE ON TASK.. To keep a task from coming up each boot go to the run and type "msconfig" click the startup tab and uncheck the things you don’t want to come up.
msgsrv32.exe
mprexe.exe
mmtask.tsk
****NOTE.. If you don’t use the Task Manager you can keep it from coming up each start by opening it and I think the option is in the advance menu
mstask.exe
methw95.exe
Explorer
taskmon.exe
Systray
ddhelp.exe
spool32.exe
ez.exe
------------------------------------------------------------
[This message has been edited by -FreeLaNce- (edited 04-13-2001).]
[This message has been edited by -FreeLaNce- (edited 04-13-2001).]
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Koen [TibEd]
Member
posted 04-13-2001 12:14 PM
OK, I've been reading all posts in this thread, and how about this:
Crash is due to flaw in NVidia driver in DX8 (maybe DX7 too)?
A lot of people are using NVidia video chipsets.
This is just one of my ideas, but maybe it is it.
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transnote
Member
posted 04-13-2001 12:19 PM
>>****UPDATE There are new Video Drivers at-
>>http://www.nvidia.com/products.nsf/htmlmedia/detonator3.html
I recomended the detonater 3 drivers to a previous user in this thread although for problem detrmination you'll want to go to the actual drivers from you mfg or the reference driver.
>>CPU Type : 351 MHz AuthenticAMD AMD K6-2
>>****UPDATE..I would recommend getting a
>>faster CPU maybe a AMD K6-2 500Mhz or
>>550Mhz you can find good prices for them
Thats not really problem determination
>http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/system/maxmem.htm
Troubleshooting is not the time you want to be introducing new variables to the system, the issue was never described as a possible lack of memory, it was a lack of resources, resources includes virtual memory.
Keep in mind this is the only original idea that didn't originally exist in my entry.
>>Version : 5.0.2614.3500 ****UPDATE.. Get
>>the latest Internet Explorer(I would
>>recommend getting 5.5 and not 6.0 because
>>all the bugs in 6.0 have not been worked
>>out yet)
Didn't I say 6.0 was in beta in my entry?
>Description : U.S. Robotics 33.6K FAX EXT
>**** Woaaa what are you using this for?
>Telnet or something?
What does telnet have to do with the fact he has a modem? You can telnet over any TCP/IP stack.
On top of this, this is your second entry is it not?
regards
Transnote
PS That pencil holder is mine Tim
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-13-2001 12:40 PM
"I recomended the detonater 3 drivers to a previous user in this thread although for problem detrmination you'll want to go to the actual drivers from you mfg or the reference driver."
I have to disagree with you on that.. The Reference drivers is always the latest. It also depends on who makes his card, if its someone like creative or elsa then he should use their drivers. Also he wanted to know what he could to to tweak it up a bit not fix issues.
">>CPU Type : 351 MHz AuthenticAMD AMD K6-2
>>****UPDATE..I would recommend getting a
>>faster CPU maybe a AMD K6-2 500Mhz or
>>550Mhz you can find good prices for them
Thats not really problem determination"
Like I said he wanted to know what he could do to tweak it up.
">http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/system/maxmem.htm
Troubleshooting is not the time you want to be introducing new variables to the system, the issue was never described as a possible lack of memory, it was a lack of resources, resources includes virtual memory.
Keep in mind this is the only original idea that didn't originally exist in my entry."
Your last to sentences sound like a flame to me.. I did not use anything from your entry I only took what Tim posted, pasted it in to word and worked top to bottem. Like I said.. again he said that he wanted to tweak the computer up not fix it.
">Description : U.S. Robotics 33.6K FAX EXT
>**** Woaaa what are you using this for?
>Telnet or something?
What does telnet have to do with the fact he has a modem? You can telnet over any TCP/IP stack."
It was ment as a joke because his modem is so slow, yes telent can be used on any tcp/ip stack. I'll just take that out..
"On top of this, this is your second entry is it not?"
This is my revised entry, I deleted my other one. Tim said I could do this. You come off like you are trying to make my entry look bad a pro would not do this.
BTW- That pencil holder is mine!!!
[This message has been edited by -FreeLaNce- (edited 04-13-2001).]
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transnote
Member
posted 04-13-2001 12:40 PM
I don't mind the troll comment...I'll be playing online tonight most of the evening (11pm est - 4am est) or so.... maybe you can back up those words...something in a tourney game? j/k
Which ones were old...the reference drivers?
I was just quoting Freelance and adding comments.
[This message has been edited by transnote (edited 04-13-2001).]
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-13-2001 12:42 PM
May I also remind you transnote..
"Anyone wanna point out how I can tweek this puppy? I'll give you till Friday. Best POSTED RESPONSE AS DECIDED BY THE POSTERS gets a prize....(i'll count votes at close of business on Friday)...and my vote counts for more than the posters! Hee hee hee..." -TIM
Oh yes.. Im a poster so, I vote for... ME
[This message has been edited by -FreeLaNce- (edited 04-13-2001).]
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-13-2001 12:57 PM
I'm going to try updating windows, dumping the temp files, and downloading the newest drivers for my SB Live! card tonight.
Failing that, I'll just run it in a window - it seems like it runs pretty smoothly in that fashion.
Heh - I'll be playing around 11p - 3a. My brother-in-law and I are playing a 2v2 against a couple guys I know from college. An ongoing rivalry that has spanned many RTS games. Does that make me a troll?
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transnote
Member
posted 04-13-2001 12:59 PM
If you are a poster....
* transnote rolls you up and throws you out.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-13-2001 01:00 PM
Heh heh not that kind of poster.. What kind of note are you eh ??
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Core36
Member
posted 04-13-2001 01:01 PM
Even the Soundblaster Live drivers are old, dated 05/05/2000.
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-13-2001 01:05 PM
Thanks for the date info. I'll check the date on my driver tonight.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-13-2001 01:08 PM
They may be old but they are the latest drivers.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-13-2001 01:34 PM
Hells bells
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-13-2001).]
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-13-2001 01:56 PM
OK, Show me where a newer driver is then.
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Alslayer
Member
posted 04-13-2001 02:42 PM
Tim
Oh man I am so glad someone is workin hard to fix this problem. There are a lot of messages in this thread and I have only read the ones tim says.
Here is my story.
I played through red alert 2 single player missions and with 3 or 4 crashes that were random I guess. But all in all the game was really stable. But then I went online.
1. Linksys network card crash
Thus not allowing me to play online and not get a higher rating. I lost my dsl from northpoint so I won't play online for a while.
2. AMD desktop crash
So in addition to restarting the computer after each online game, I get a random crash in the middle of the game. I will try to send you a report.
The linksys is the more annoying one but I would like to help fix this desktop crash. Any information on the Linksys problem would be appreciated. I might play online through a modem to see if I get any problems.
amd 600
Asus via motherboard
best data riva tnt2
64 mb ram
on motherboard sound card
usb microsoft mouse
updated 8.0a direct x
detenator 3 driver
microsoft windows updates - including critical
Thank you for all of your info TIM
I am glad the guys at westwood do care.
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crayzkirk
Member
posted 04-13-2001 02:42 PM
Hi,
Just wondering about this crash to desktop issue. I've got four computers at home that we play weekly lan games of Ra2. Here are the basic configs:
Asus Cusl2-c w/p3 700 256mb Ram, Geforce DDR, sb live 5.1 xgamer and 3com 100mb pci lan
Gigabyte GA-7ZX w/Duron 700, 256mb Ram, Geforce2 MX, sb live value and Dlink 100mb pci lan
The other systems are identically configured as MSI MS-6330 w/Duron 650, 256mb ram, Voodoo3 3000, sb live value. One has a 3com 3c90x lan and the other a Dlink Dfe-530tx.
The two MSI systems were Soyo K7VTA-B systems. One of the boards quit working in the middle of a game and the other crashed every game.
The lan consists of a 100mb Dlink switch. All drivers are up to date and we remove any mouse executable before play.
The Duron 700 system has never crashed during a game. All of the other systems have. One thing that seems to cause it to happen is the use of keyboard and mouse commands at the same time. Two of us use the keyboard and mouse much more than the others and those two systems are the ones that typically crash.
The P3 system is running Win98se, the others are running Win98. I have built all of these systems and they all have approved power supplies and network cabling.
I wonder what I must be doing wrong; Tim is stating that he can play single player on the highest level with a K6-2-350. I had k6-2-500s that slowed down to almost unplayable on the highest level. The P3 and Durons all slow down at 800x600. Please note that I defrag and full scandisk each week before we start playing.
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-13-2001 04:34 PM
Ok gang,
Cast your votes for the best reply to my EZ report....
Tim
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Halcyon
Administrator
posted 04-13-2001 04:44 PM
Transnote gets a vote from me. But, let me make this VERY clear transnote, you will not get Granny Vader. Not now, not ever. However, I'd be willing to part with our office mascot (named Bob) or my Lego helicopter. You can have Tim's pencils, though. Heck, I'll even throw Tim in.
I'll have a picture of the infamous cup on Monday.
-Halcyon
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[GvE]Stoner
Member
posted 04-13-2001 04:54 PM
Tim.. just a note... you guys suck... its been how long now.. last time I checked a month or longer (probally 3 lol) anyways HURRY UP GEEZUS!.. wait... why am I sayen this... I never get these crashes... umm... keep up the good work.
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-13-2001 05:03 PM
Ok, I think it goes to Transnote. But seeing as I only had two people post a reply, I have decided to award them BOTH! I don't have the details on what the prizes are, but I think you will like them. Both of you send email to [email protected] and put Tim's Tech Test in the subject line. I can verify who you are easily enough.
Congrats and good job to everyone. I would like all of you that can not play due to this issue to give the windows thang a try and post here.
Tim-WS
P.S. - Granny Vader was not injured during the production of this contest.
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-13-2001 05:31 PM
Thanks for the sympathy, Tim.
I saved the Gigabyte board that got burned, and I am using it now. That may be why the fans are going funky.
Thanks for your input, Robbydog. There are only three of these boards I know of (surely they sold a lot though)...yours, mine, and a friend of mine has one. I am the only one with fan problems...maybe I got a bad board.
As far as me finished with Westwood, I will stick RA2 out to the end, but I have decided against future Westwood games...Emperor, NOX (old, but I don't have it), Renegade...
I am looking hard into new games...they may be console games due to the lack of availability on PC format. Evolution 1 and 2 (Dreamcast), Dance! Dance! Revolution!(PS1), Scud Race(PC), etc.
BTW, Tim, did you get my EZ Report? It has Shadow461 as the user name.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-13-2001 05:41 PM
Thanks Tim, I just sent an e-mail off to you. Also I would like to thank you for showing more support on this issue then anyone else has.
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SmellyDelphi-WS
Member
posted 04-13-2001 05:41 PM
i smell
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-13-2001 05:43 PM
heh heh I just read Halcyon's post heh heh. Where do we see the picture of the cup
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transnote
Member
posted 04-13-2001 05:47 PM
Thank you, thank you.
Tim you'll be able to soon check your mail and get the address of where your pencil holder will be sent
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-13-2001 06:00 PM
Oh I was supposed to send my address.. heh woups! I just sent my address to tim.
[This message has been edited by -FreeLaNce- (edited 04-13-2001).]
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-13-2001 06:28 PM
sorry,
will be a very silly question but:
when I crashed to desktop the only file that changes at the time of the crash is the file
-wininit.ini- in the windows folder (I only can look at the minutes, but just after the crash I look at the time and then searched for files that changed at that time)
here the file-data:
[rename]
nul=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\~ef7194.tmp
nul=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\~ef7194.tmp
nul=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\~ef7194.tmp
what is this file for? I am sorry if this has nothing to do with the crash to desktop.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-13-2001 07:50 PM
Oh yea congrats to you aswell transnote.
Try opening the .tmp files in notepad see what they say and post it here.
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-13-2001 09:01 PM
I am not sure if you mean that seriously- but the file is to long to post it here (my is 52kb). This file (and some others) are/is created when RA is started. It seems to belong to MS Visual C++ Runtime library in which RA seems to be programmed. It seems to handle the error routines or something like that. Some code, some readable. I think everybody should have such a file or similar.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-13-2001 09:05 PM
Ah well It didnt hurt to check.. Just ignore me tonight, Im very happy and excited that that I won so Im not thinking strait(hence the spelling )
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Core36
Member
posted 04-13-2001 09:06 PM
I have that file too. The last modified date is today, but I haven't crashed to desktop for 2 days. I did get the internal error message tonight. Some of the contents...
- unable to initialize heap
R6027
- not enough space for lowio initialization
R6026
- not enough space for stdio initialization
R6025
- pure virtual function call
R6024
- not enough space for _onexit/atexit table
R6019
- unable to open console device
R6018
- unexpected heap error
R6017
- unexpected multithread lock error
R6016
- not enough space for thread data
abnormal program termination
R6009
- not enough space for environment
R6008
- not enough space for arguments
R6002
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-13-2001).]
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-13-2001 09:14 PM
Hum.. That looks like some kind of memory issue, has to be. Not sure what the cause is it could be many things. Do me a favor and try that MaxMem program at
http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/system/maxmem.htm
Do and Agressive free on your memory (Do this by right clicking on the program in the task bar the click Agressive). Close the maxmem program then run RA2 see what happens.
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balcarrie
Member
posted 04-14-2001 01:19 AM
You know , i`ve been wondering if we`ve been looking in the wrong place , i don`t think this is a memory issue , if we were running patch 1.003 ok , then we have to look at what changed in 1.004 , i was reading the patch text doc , and one thing that stuck out to me was , westwood added support for microsofts strategic commander . Are there any known issues regarding that ? just a thought
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Author
Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
balcarrie
Member
posted 04-14-2001 02:47 AM
Look people , what we should be looking at is whats changed between the last two patches , i can`t see adjustmenst to units causing the prob , the paging part of things has neve come into play when i`ve crashed , it doesn`t happen in the lobbies so forget the alterations made there , it`s not mod maps , i have none on my sys , nor is it a memory problem , once you`ve discounte d all that , what remains no matter however strange is the truth , said sherlock holmes , looking back , nearly every tim ei crashed i was either scrolling , or right clicking or in the process of launching an attack , i think it`s a conflict betwwen your normal mouse actions and strategic commander support that was added in 1.004 , what do you think tim ?
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-14-2001 06:33 AM
Have you read what tim has said? Patch 1.004 takes up more memory for one, second there maybe some kind of bug in the patch that causes some kind of memory error.
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CBWhiz
Member
posted 04-14-2001 06:52 AM
>when I crashed to desktop the only file >that changes at the time of the crash is >the file
>-wininit.ini- in the windows folder
>[rename]
>nul=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\~ef7194.tmp
>nul=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\~ef7194.tmp
>nul=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\~ef7194.tmp
>what is this file for?
Superpatch, this file is the Windows Startup sequence file renamer. renaming to nul means deleting the file. Windows preforms the renames during startup, behind the logo usually, when it says "Windows is updating your configuration settings, This may take a few minutes" (or similar)
I read about this somewhere and programs should use it if for example they are setup programs that "require a reboot to finish settup up" because the files are in use. Thats why, for example, a directx update tells you to reboot.
The file ~ef7194.tmp I BELIVE comes from ~ef7194.exe, which is run at game startup. I THINK it is a Safedisk v2 verifier (RA2 is protected by Savedisk v2) and will boot the game when it determines the CD is origonal. ~ef7194.exe may not even exist, and could even be extracted from RA2.exe at game start.
This shouldnt be related to the desktop crash, but who knows...
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-14-2001 06:53 AM
OK,
I flashed my bios to the latest version.
KX133, (crappy) jetway 771as mobo.
CRASH !!!
Listen guys, Is there anyone with an AMD + VIA MOBO that does not crash ??
My bud just bought a brandnew computer and also crashes.
Maybe it's the problem that transnote suggested a few pages ago but there isn't a fix for that yet..
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-14-2001 07:09 AM
Core26,
~ef7194.tmp is actually that program runs next to RA2 IMO.
( just rename it to ~ef7194.exe )
The error messages are possible errors that the program can generate.
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CBWhiz
Member
posted 04-14-2001 09:10 AM
The file ~ef7194.tmp comes from ~ef7194.exe, which is run at game startup. All it is a Safedisk v2 verifier (RA2 is protected by Savedisk v2) and will boot the game when it determines the CD is original. ~ef7194.exe may not even exist, and could be extracted from RA2.exe at game start. If you notice (correct if i'm wrong), ~ef7194.exe only runs in the beginning of the game, and closes when RA2 is actually running.
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-14-2001 09:14 AM
ok but why tries the wininit.ini to delete the file ~ef7194.tmp just when the dektop crash accures? RA2 seems to crash but tries to close regulary?
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-14-2001 09:15 AM
bum bum
[This message has been edited by Superpatch (edited 04-14-2001).]
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-14-2001 09:50 AM
why does the patch stop responding at 92%
(ra2.mix) and then carry on installing about
5 minutes later. surely this is where the problem lies.all the people who dont have probs did this happen to them to or did it go straight in.
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transnote
Member
posted 04-14-2001 09:53 AM
It happens to everyone, it's just part of the patch verifying itself probably...it adds more modification to the game then some of the previous patches.
Happens on AMD and Intel alike.....
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M3T4L
Member
posted 04-14-2001 11:15 AM
i have had this problem before with Age of Empires and Age of Empires 2 and also RA2.
i believe that it has dissapeared for me when i upgraded from 64MB to 256MB ram, but im not sure if it was that..
anyway, the prob is just like u guys have, it throws me back to the desktop.
my system config:
AMD Duron 650@950
256MB PC-133 ram @ 133MHz
30gig Seagate Barracuda II 7200rpm 2mb cache
MSI K7TPRO2-A
WIN98SE /w DX8 and VIA 4-in-1 2.9, ive had DX7 for a couple of days ago and it did work fine with it too..
ive done some research on the problem that i had with AOE 1 and some ppl say that u have to optimize ur harddrive cache or something like that, so i downloaded Cacheman from [url]http://www.download.com[/url] and tryed a couple of configurations but i didnt work so i got tired..
maybe it would have worked.. who knows?
[This message has been edited by M3T4L (edited 04-14-2001).]
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wayii
Member
posted 04-14-2001 12:46 PM
i just thought i would reply to make it an even hotter topic.
"when will ww fix this problem"
wayii
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Mr. PK
Member
posted 04-14-2001 01:32 PM
I experienced desktop crashs and internal errors for few months. (I understand how frustrating this could be, I was going to burn(not sure if it is useful for campfire though) the cd) However, it stopped happening for a month now (yesss!). It looked like when i used the user generated map I got the crash. I am not really sure about this though. I have no clue what setting I changed for my computer to stop crashing. I have like 6 programs running background each time I play. I think I am going to test to see if it occurs again. I just hope that we could find the exact cause and solution to this problem. It would be so nice if we could just go back to 1.003 and get no errors. I have amd athlon 650 with via chipset mobo with 384mb of ram.
By the way, I am new to this board
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Zoctan
Member
posted 04-14-2001 01:53 PM
Do any of you guys play Tribes 2? Maybe a little off-topic, but that game constantly crashes to the desktop exactly like RA2... no error messages or anything.
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-14-2001 01:59 PM
Hmmm Tribes 2 also crashing without error ???
Could this be linked ??
Does it happen to AMD/VIA only ??
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roguestorm
Member
posted 04-14-2001 02:28 PM
hmmmmmmmm so this i gather after reading these here posts, is cause by lack of memory ? well, last night, i upgraded my athlon 600 with (3) strips of pc100 ram to a athlon 1.3gig 266 fsb system with 256mb of ddr ram, thinkin to myself, well possibly this may be just my system ( thou thousands have reported it )and it was time for a new pc for me so i upgraded, the very first thing i did after normal bios checking and such was run ra ( with nothing except the minimal running in task manager ) and viola, about 10 prism tanks and a few carriers, BAM, right back to the desktop, and let me tell you, there is nothing as frustrating as that when you have 3 friends online getting the crap kicked outta them but still having fun. see thats the reason we buy these games, mainly for fun, relaxtion, comraderie with friends and to forget life for a lil while, and thats hard to do when you had a perfectly working game that starts crashing after an updated patch............
heres an idea for westwood, run two seperate gaming servers, 1 for those lucky peeps who have a pentium and the patch that works for them, and 1 for the peeps who have an athlon system and allow them to run non patched, until ( or if ever ) this problem is circumvented... ???
seems to me if the patch wasnt a mandatory download to play this game and was able to be toggled on and off, there would be alot less griping and alot more playing going on.
and for someone like myself, that thrives for online gaming and purchases roughly 2-3 games a month, im contiplating on ever buying a ww product again, nevermind the ex-pack for ra2, and im sure there are thousands of others thinking just like me.........
frustrated beyond belief
`CW` ROGUE
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Metwillow
Member
posted 04-14-2001 02:47 PM
Sorry westwood...
Well anyway i have the latest drivers installed, only running explorer and systray
60 GB of HD and 30 GB is still free
A mem of 256 MB (should do the trick)
Direct x8.0...
But still crash....................
Well anyway what i cannot understand...
Any game i run i can run with as many background programs as i want.....
Except.....
RA2....
So please don't say it is a technical problem....
Because it is.....
A really frustrated Metwillow
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saberX
Member
posted 04-14-2001 07:45 PM
Well With all i've read so far, and WW so-called "solutions", nothing works. Same old crash under Win98 and Me.
I have an Athlon 1.2 GHz with 768 Mb of RAM.
I keep my system always up to peak peformance becaure I love tinkering with my system.
I've ran the game when I had 99% system resources free. STILL!!! it crashes. Its not our problem! and countless people are annoyed beyond all holy hell because of it.
But one thing i've noticed after playing the game since 3 weeks ago. I dont see anymore crashes! It dont crash when I'm running Win 2000 Pro.!
I switch back to win 98 and it still crashes.
I use win 98 for gaming and such but now im sticking to win 2000 for playing RA.
Thats about all I can tell everybody. It might be just my computer. But all I know it it works fine on win 2000, it just loads a bit slower..but thats no problem with a system with alot of processor power.
Well thats my 2¢. I hope it could help some people.
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-14-2001 08:41 PM
does anyone actually know how many people are
affected by this desktop bug
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wtlee
Member
posted 04-14-2001 10:33 PM
Can anybody tell me that Win2000 can solve the desktop crash problem? If yes, I will buy one for the RA2.. hmm... expensive for a game.
BTW, if Win2000 can stop the crash, is there any report from W2K on fault attack? Maybe we can trace the bug there.
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wtlee
Member
posted 04-14-2001 10:36 PM
Can anybody tell me that Win2000 can solve the desktop crash problem? If yes, I will buy one for the RA2.. hmm... expensive for a game.
BTW, if Win2000 can stop the crash, is there any report from W2K on fault attack? Maybe we can trace the bug there.
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Zoctan
Member
posted 04-15-2001 01:35 AM
Win2000 does not necessarily solve the problem. I switched to 98 thinking it would be more stable for the game. Exactly the same.
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-15-2001 04:42 AM
Well you will not believe it but I also installed win2000 pro on my system.
Indeed not crash to desktops in the real form.
But I did get lockups and internal errors in about the same random range as crash to desktops. So I think the C2D just manifests itself in another way on WIN2000.
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-15-2001 11:49 AM
Bump.
No, sorry. *kicks a field goal with this thread*
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Angrybeaver911
Member
posted 04-15-2001 11:52 AM
Max mem does not work... Just tried it... crashed no problem.
What else do you want us to try and do???
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Angrybeaver911
Member
posted 04-15-2001 11:54 AM
Max mem does not work... Just tried it... crashed no problem.
What else do you want us to try and do???
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-15-2001 05:36 PM
Did you do exactly what I said? You did free your memory before playing right? If you did then that means that it is not a lack of memory issue. Anyone else try the max mem program?
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-15-2001 07:29 PM
Sparky, do a search on this forum for "Modem to Modem!" in the subject line.
Delphi-WS told us a way to use dial up server for such games.
Also try doing an internet search for Kahn...it's an online gaming program.
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Zoctan
Member
posted 04-15-2001 08:17 PM
Thanks Sparky. I'm sure that motivated Westwood to change their ways.
I don't see why it would be so horrible to go back to the previous patch.. units may be a little unbalanced, but that's much better than not being able to play at all.
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-15-2001 08:42 PM
why dont they do it like msn gaming zone where you can log on and go to diffrent rooms
for unpatched games etc
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azzkicker400
Member
posted 04-15-2001 08:48 PM
i hate msn gaming zone it is in a different window and you have to install a horrible buddy list program---then when you have a game another window opens---the way westwood online is right now is fine, except i still dont see why they dont automatically trasfer maps to your westwood folder that you dont have instead of just saying you dont have the map oops to bad pick another one ***** or find that person's e-mail out and send it to him............
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kgb1982
Member
posted 04-15-2001 08:51 PM
I know people with ungodly amounts of RAM claim they never dip into VM and still experience the crash, but is there any chance this could be a VM issue? From what I've heard, the bug occurs when the game is somewhat developed (3+ minutes). A RAM issue would occur more randomly, sometimes occuring as soon as the game starts. A VM issue would only occur when the RAM is filled, probably meaning several minutes into the game and occuring randomly from there.
If someone (preferrably an advanced user) with the desktop bug wants to try something out, head over to...
http://www.speedguide.net/Windows/win_perform.shtml
...and follow their guidelines on setting an effecient swap file. Chances are it won't fix the bug (especially since this seems to be an AMD issue), but it's worth a shot. If nothing else, you'll get more consistent disk performance over time. I know I have.
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perplexu
Member
posted 04-16-2001 07:43 AM
bump
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transnote
Member
posted 04-16-2001 07:56 AM
hey Freelance, what kinda prize do we get?
[This message has been edited by transnote (edited 04-16-2001).]
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Angrybeaver911
Member
posted 04-16-2001 08:37 AM
Ya freelance I did exactly what you said. No better. Still took me right to the desktop. Actually what it did do was slow the game down about 20 percent. I didnt' like that too much. But at least I tried. Hopefully we can fix this sometime in the next year!
Thanks
Jesse
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Author
Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
Core36
Member
posted 04-16-2001 08:49 AM
Tim-ws, how's it going? Are we going to have a fix soon?
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-16-2001 09:30 AM
Hey gang!
Hope your weekend was as nice as mine.
Transnote and Freelance, I still haven't received your email. Did you put the correct line in the subject field?
Has everyone tried running the game in a window? I know a few of you have and that you stated that it ran fine. I just want to make sure that everyone else at least tries it.
Sparky: I deleted your post. Next time try being nice. This is not where you come to flame me. I think there are a few other posts you can do that on. We are trying to be proactive on this thread. And as for the Blizzard comment, um, no.
I haven't worked on this issue at all this weekend. So we are at the same place we were at on Friday.
Everybody post the following in this format:
Processor: AMD (description)
Video card:
Driver version:
DirectX version:
OS:
RAM:
Laters all...
Tim-WS
[This message has been edited by Tim-WS (edited 04-16-2001).]
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Core36
Member
posted 04-16-2001 09:54 AM
I try not to get upset, but don't you already have the system info from everyone? Don't you have the info from the EZ reports? Didn't we already post it in a couple threads per Delphi-ws's request a month and half ago? After all this time are we back to square one?
transnote, this is exactly why we(the users) have been so upset with Westwood regarding this matter. We go round and round in circles.
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-16-2001).]
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Jumpjet
Member
posted 04-16-2001 10:36 AM
Tim,
running the game in a window seems to stop the 'desktop' cash for me, but instead I just get an error on the program and it must be closed. It occurs at the same time the desktop crash would, so no joy there. I'm sure other people have experienced this as well.
Whatever causes the fault to desktop, simply causes an internal error if ran in a window.
[This message has been edited by Jumpjet (edited 04-16-2001).]
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Core36
Member
posted 04-16-2001 10:54 AM
Jumpjet, same thing happens to me.
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transnote
Member
posted 04-16-2001 11:21 AM
Hey Tim.
I replied on Friday using the correct subject line, and got an auto response that was from the contest division, and included the cheaters url........
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-16-2001 12:01 PM
Yea same here.. Its monday about lunch time. Whatsup??
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-16-2001 12:31 PM
hello you there, playing in a window:
are there any more details when the internal error accures? If Yes, just post it here.
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-16-2001 12:40 PM
I believed ok because the game ran with 1.003 and crashed with 1.004 it has to be a code problem.
But if its running without c2d on intel cpu we cant expect help from westwood here. They programmed right but failed to test it on amd cpus. Ok.
So its a issue of AMD or the AMD-mainboards. They didnt produce intel-compatible cpus or mainboards. Thats it.
We should complain at AMD not at westwood.
[This message has been edited by Superpatch (edited 04-16-2001).]
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Bishop Gantry
Member
posted 04-16-2001 12:57 PM
UMmm westwood is supposed to make sure their products works on the systems they are gona be used on not the (AMD) system make sure their products is compatible with westwood products
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transnote
Member
posted 04-16-2001 01:07 PM
No, it is Westwoods responsibility to make the product work with the system specified in the minimum requirements which specifies a P2 (PENTIUM) which is an Intel CPU. Pentium is an Intel trademark.
It's AMD's responsibility to make sure their product is compatible with Intel CPUS, in this case something is different.
There are many patches on the net for various AMD specific issues.
All of that said, Westwood has not said this is "Unsupported", they have recognized that a significant part of the market has AMD and has prompted people for organized information so everyone can work together for a resolution.
This doesn't happen on every AMD CPU, so it is difficult to reproduce, but Westwood has repeatadly stated they recognize an issue exists, but have not been able to narrow down the cause.
Lets stop whining and listen to the requests for information on the issue.
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Alslayer
Member
posted 04-16-2001 01:20 PM
Processor: AMD athlon 600 (one that looks like a super nintendo cartridge)
Video card: best data riva tnt 2
Driver version: Detenator 3
DirectX version: 8.0a
OS: win 98 se (with the critical updates)
RAM: 64 mb hyundai brand (will upgrade soon)
Hope this helps Tim
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-16-2001 01:25 PM
Transnote and Freelance, ach! Your right! I was checking the wrong account, sorry.
While i do have some of the info from you guys, not everyone has sent me an EZ report. I would also like to have it posted here so we can review together. I am not about to post someone else's info. I find it rude to do so. If you wish to post here, you do so own your own free will.
Also, can you guys see now why it is so hard to classify this as a bug? All of you are sending me system info that is different in almost every way!
I have to get back to the salt mines now....
Tim-WS
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transnote
Member
posted 04-16-2001 01:37 PM
------------------------------------
Core writes:
We will whine all we want. If you don't have the desktop crash, maybe you should butt out.
------------------------------------
Thats mature.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-16-2001 01:39 PM
bfd.
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-16-2001 01:49 PM
Here is mine, just one of the configurations I have tried.
also tried :
win98
win2000 (no crashes but lockups and internal errors)
- isa soundcard/internal sound/sb128 vibra (no using internal mobo sound card )
- pci TNT2,agp tnt2
Also flashed my BIOS to a newer version which sucked !! stuttered while loading the game. (new pci timings they said !! DUUHHH !!)
Now I'm back to my old bios.
[This message has been edited by juulepuul (edited 04-16-2001).]
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-16-2001 01:52 PM
Here is mine, just one of the configurations I have tried.
also tried :
win98
win2000 (no crashes but lockups and internal errors)
- isa soundcard/internal sound/sb128 vibra (no using internal mobo sound card )
- pci TNT2,agp tnt2
----EAsy System Summary--------------------------------------
Video Card :NVIDIA GeForce2 MX
Video Driver :nvdisp.drv
Driver Version :4.12.01.0650
Sound Card :Windows Sound System Direct Sound Driver
Sound Driver :VIAUDIO.VXD
Driver Version :4.05.00.1111
DirectX irectX 7
Operating System :Windows 98 4.10.1998
----EAsy System Output---------------------------------------
Sunday, January 00, 1900
Computer Name :Buldrium II
Supercomputer
BIOS Info
Name :Award
Date :07/06/00
Version :Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG
PNP :Plug en Play-BIOS
Manufacturer Standaard systeemapparaten)
CPU Info
CPU Count :1
CPU Type :800 MHZ AuthenticAMD AMD Model 4, Step 2 with MMX
6 4 2
RAM :255 MB Total
178 MB Free
Virtual RAM :1792 MB Total
1764 MB Free
Operating System :Windows 98 4.10.1998
Product ID :10301-OEM-0070232-09473
Default Browser :Internet Explorer
Version :4.72.3110.0
Temp Directory :C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\
Size :424.97 KB
------------------------------------------------------------
----Display Info--------------------------------------------
Number of Displays :1
Current Mode (Primary) :1280x1024 16
Refresh Rate (Primary) :Adapter Default
Primary display device
Description :NVIDIA GeForce2 MX
Manufacturer :NVIDIA
Video Memory :32 MB
Main Driver :nvdisp.drv
Version :4.12.01.0650
Provider :NVIDIA
Supported Display Modes
| 16 | 256 | 16 bits| 24 bits| 32 bits
---------------------------------------------------
640 x 480| * | * | * | | *
800 x 600| | * | * | | *
1024x 768| | * | * | | *
1152x 864| | * | * | | *
1280x1024| | * | * | | *
1600x1200| | * | * | | *
------------------------------------------------------------
----Sound, Video and Game Controllers-----------------------
Description :Windows Sound System Direct Sound Driver
Manufacturer :VIA Technologies, Inc.
Main Driver :VIAUDIO.VXD
Version :4.05.00.1111
Provider :VIA
Description :VIA Gameport Joystick
Manufacturer :VIA Technologies, Inc.
Main Driver :vjoyd.vxd
Version :4.08.00.0400
Provider :VIA
------------------------------------------------------------
----Direct X------------------------------------------------
DirectX Info
Version irectX 7
DirectDraw Info
Version :4.08.00.0400
Certified :Not certified
DirectSound Info
Version :4.08.00.0400
Certified :Not certified
DirectPlay Info
Version :4.03.00.1096
DirectInput Info
Version :4.08.00.0400
------------------------------------------------------------
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-16-2001 01:54 PM
Current Drive Information
Drive Letter C
Description :GENERIC IDE DISK TYPE47
Volume Name :SUPERJUUL
Manufacturer Standaardschijfstations)
File System: :FAT32
Total Space: :18.64 GB
Free Space: :17.84 GB
Drive Letter E
Description :GENERIC IDE DISK TYPE80
Volume Name :SUPERJUUL
Manufacturer Standaardschijfstations)
File System: :FAT32
Total Space: :12.65 GB
Free Space: :2.10 GB
Drive Letter A
Description :GENERIC NEC FLOPPY DISK
Volume Name :
Manufacturer Standaardschijfstations)
File System: :
Total Space: :0.00 KB
Free Space: :0.00 KB
------------------------------------------------------------
CDRom Info
Number of CDRoms :1
Cache size :1238KB
Access Pattern :Quad-speed or higher
CD-Rom 1
Drive Letter F
Volume Name SUPERJUUL
Description CREATIVE CD5233E
Manufacturer CREATIVE
Sec/MB:Test not performed
Detected Speed:Test not performed
------------------------------------------------------------
----Monitor Information-------------------------------------
Primary monitor
Description :Iiyama MA901U, VisionMaster Pro 452
Manufacturer :Iiyama
Max. Resolution :1920x1440
------------------------------------------------------------
----Network Information-------------------------------------
Description :Externe-toegangsadapter
Manufacturer :Microsoft
Driver ppmac.vxd
Provider :Microsoft
Bound Protocols
TCP/IP
IP Address: Obtained from provider
IP Mask: Obtained from provider
Description :Winbond W89C940 Based PCI Ethernet Adapter
Manufacturer :Winbond Electronic Corporation
Driver :W940ND.sys
Provider :Microsoft
Bound Protocols
IPX/SPX-compatibel protocol
Frame type:Auto
IPX Address:0
TCP/IP
IP Address: :192.168.0.5
IP Mask: :255.255.255.0
Gateway: :
Description :SOHOware 10/100 USB Network Adapter
Manufacturer :NDC
Driver :NUB100.SYS
Provider :NDC
Bound Protocols
IPX/SPX-compatibel protocol
Frame type:Auto
IPX Address:0
TCP/IP
IP Address: Obtained from provider
IP Mask: Obtained from provider
------------------------------------------------------------
----Task List-----------------------------------------------
msgsrv32.exe
mprexe.exe
mmtask.tsk
Explorer
Systray
taskmon.exe
ddhelp.exe
command conquer red alert 2_ez.exe
------------------------------------------------------------
----Autoexec.bat--------------------------------------------
mode con codepage prepare=((850) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ega.cpi)
mode con codepage select=850
------------------------------------------------------------
----Config.sys----------------------------------------------
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
rem TShoot: DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE
device=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\display.sys con=(ega,,1)
Country=031,850,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\country.sys
------------------------------------------------------------
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-16-2001 02:20 PM
transnote:
The **reason** people are bent on blaming AMD CPU's isn't because of any particular evidence supporting that claim, but because the vast majority of gamers HAVE AMD CPU's. To boot, the vast majority of initial complaints (atleast in this message board) were from those with AMD CPU's.
Statistically speaking however, the idea that AMD CPU's are the culprit is bull-- you don't take a look at the first 20 complaints and see 15 as AMD and use that as the backbone of your "AMD is the problem" rant; you wait and see the total percent of Intel vs. AMD complaints, then take into account how many people HAVE Intel vs. AMD processors.
Answer this question:
If 90% of RA2 players have AMD processors and 10% have Intel processors, and 100 people complain; 90% of the complainers have AMD processors and 10% have Intel processors, which is true:
a) An equal number of AMD processors and Intel processors experience the problem.
b) AMD processors experience the problem more than Intel processors, so a possible lead for a solution would be to assume the problem was from AMD processors.
c) Intel processors experience the problem more than AMD processors, so a possible lead for a solution would be to assume the problem was from Intel processors.
Personally, from a math point of view, my money is on "a", but you know, that's just me. I know the numbers of AMD vs. Intel CPU's isn't that extreme, it's probably more along the lines of 70/30 or 75/25, maybe 65/35-- but as far as I can tell from just reading posts most folks (in this board anyway) appear to have AMD CPU's. That doesn't mean the problem/bug is AMD related.
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-16-2001 02:35 PM
i have an amd athlon 800
32 meg tnt2 m64
256 megs hyundi brand ram
creative 128 soundblaster
sony cd rom 52 speed
plextor 40 speed scsi
plextor 12 4 32 writer scsi
tried playing the game in all the drives in case it was a cd rom issue but i get kicked within 10 mins every time without mercy
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Core36
Member
posted 04-16-2001 02:43 PM
AMD athlon 800 classic
Creative Geforce 2 GTS
Detonator 3 drivers
DirectX version: 8.0a
Win98 - will all microsoft updates
RAM - 128 megs
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gc
Member
posted 04-16-2001 02:48 PM
To this date Ive never seen a pentium user with the desktop crash. Ofcourse there will always be idiots that posts in desktop crash threads and say their P2 crashed and this and that. But everytime it turns out that it was an internal error or some other type of crash, or a system lock up or whatever. This game can and does crash in so many ways.
But for me theres only one way it crashes DURING games and thats the dekstop crash. So thats why we press WW for a solution.
And I recently upgraded from a pentium celeron processor to an AMD, and BAM, no sooner then 20 games after upgrade i got the desktop crash. For the first time ever.
And after it keeps crashing now and then, about every 30 games id say. Latest was today, about 2 hours ago.
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-16-2001 02:48 PM
I said I'd e-mail this report in, but since the app apperently isn't detecting any of my hardware correctly I thought I'd post it here instead to see what others make of it--
----EAsy System Summary--------------------------------------
Video Card :
Video Driver :
Driver Version :
Sound Card :
Sound Driver :
Driver Version :
DirectX :DirectX 7
Operating System :Windows 2000 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1 5.0.2195
----EAsy System Output---------------------------------------
Sunday, January 00, 1900
Computer Name :
BIOS Info
Name :
Date :
Version :
PNP :
Manufacturer :
CPU Info
CPU Count :2
CPU Type :793 MHZ GenuineIntel Coppermine with MMX
6 8 3
RAM :1279 MB Total
816 MB Free
Virtual RAM :1639 MB Total
1162 MB Free
Operating System :Windows 2000 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1 5.0.2195
Product ID :
Default Browser :
Version :
Temp Directory :C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\
Size :120.61 MB
------------------------------------------------------------
----Display Info--------------------------------------------
Number of Displays :0
Current Mode (Primary) : 0
Refresh Rate (Primary) :
Supported Display Modes
| 16 | 256 | 16 bits| 24 bits| 32 bits
---------------------------------------------------
640 x 480| | | | |
800 x 600| | | | |
1024x 768| | | | |
1152x 864| | | | |
1280x1024| | | | |
1600x1200| | | | |
------------------------------------------------------------
----Sound, Video and Game Controllers-----------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
----Direct X------------------------------------------------
DirectX Info
Version :DirectX 7
DirectDraw Info
Version :5.01.2258.0400
Certified :Not certified
DirectSound Info
Version :5.01.2258.0400
Certified :Certified
DirectPlay Info
Version :5.00.2134.0001
DirectInput Info
Version :5.01.2258.0400
------------------------------------------------------------
Current Drive Information
------------------------------------------------------------
CDRom Info
Number of CDRoms :0
Cache size :0KB
Access Pattern :
------------------------------------------------------------
----Monitor Information-------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
----Network Information-------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
----Input Device Information--------------------------------
Mouse Information
Description :
Type :
Keyboard Information
Description :IBM enhanced (101- or 102-key)
------------------------------------------------------------
----Modem Information---------------------------------------
Modem Info
Description :
Driver :
Provider :
------------------------------------------------------------
----Glide/OpenGL Information--------------------------------
Glide Info
Glide2 Version :
Glide3 Version :
OpenGL Info
Version :5.0
------------------------------------------------------------
----Task List-----------------------------------------------
[system process]
system
smss.exe
csrss.exe
winlogon.exe
services.exe
lsass.exe
svchost.exe
svchost.exe
spoolsv.exe
ctsvccda.exe
dfssvc.exe
llssrv.exe
mdm.exe
sqlservr.exe
ntfrs.exe
regsvc.exe
locator.exe
mstask.exe
tcpsvcs.exe
sagentnt.exe
ebrr.exe
stisvc.exe
svchost.exe
termsrv.exe
winmgmt.exe
mspmspsv.exe
dns.exe
inetinfo.exe
ismserv.exe
mad.exe
mssearch.exe
store.exe
emsmta.exe
Explorer
devldr32.exe
speedkey.exe
wcmdmgr.exe
atiptaxx.exe
taskmgr.exe
acrotray.exe
w3dbsmgr.exe
ud.exe
outlook.exe
iexplore.exe
msipcsv.exe
icq.exe
ud_101.exe
command conque
------------------------------------------------------------
----Autoexec.bat--------------------------------------------
*empty*
------------------------------------------------------------
----Config.sys----------------------------------------------
*empty*
------------------------------------------------------------
X_CASE_START
X_CASE_DESCRIPTION:
X_CONTACT_FIRST_NAME:
X_CONTACT_LAST_NAME:
X_GAME: Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2
X_SERIAL_KEY: ---
X_OPERATING_SYSTEM: Windows 2000 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1, Version 5.0, Build 2195
X_PROCESSOR: Coppermine
X_SPEED: 793 MHz
X_MMX: Yes
X_RAM: 1279 MB
X_MANUFACTURER:
X_PRODUCT_ID:
X_VIDEO_CARD:
X_DISPLAY_DRIVER:
X_DISPLAY_DIRECTX: Not Certified, No Hardware Support
X_DISPLAY_MEMORY: 0 MB
X_AUDIO_CERTIFIED: Certified
X_AUDIO_DRIVERS:
X_MODEM:
X_V_MANUFACTURER:
X_A_MANUFACTURER:
X_CASE_END
As you can see, it royally screwed up detecting my system except for the CPU's and memory--
DirectX 8 is installed (not sure about 8.0a), not DirectX 7. It didn't detect the display drivers, CD/DVD-ROM's or Hard disk drives, etc, etc; so here's a quick run-through of what I have *really* (aside from dual CPU's and memory, which it got right)--
ATI Rage Fury Pro 32MB ViVo
Adaptec SCSI card
Plextor 12/10/32S SCSI CD-RW
Pioneer DVD-ROM (slot load, the 115 series I believe or 105 (forget the exact model number))
SoundBlaster Live! Value
ActionTec 56k PCI modem (not a WinModem)
Intel Pro/100 S NIC
Intel Pro/1000 T NIC
I've also got a game controller, but I don't use it for RA2 (it's one of Microsoft's Sidewinder gamepads (the 4 button variety, USB)).
Westwood should write a new version of their detection/system viewing app that works on more systems. =)
IP: Logged
Core36
Member
posted 04-16-2001 03:08 PM
Agrees with Toxic mule %100!!!!!!!!
Also, transnote and freenlance think we should be grateful for any support because we have AMD chips.
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-16-2001).]
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Holycrawler
Member
posted 04-16-2001 03:12 PM
Come on Haylcon,
This doesnt take alot of brain power to figure this one out. What everyone is expriencing is NOT a desktop crash, the Program it self is at fault. Your memory Ram, lets you operate a certain amout of programs at one time. Correct me if i am wrong but if you are using to many programs (window users) A blue screen will pop up and say that you are running too many programs etc. BLUE Screen, Red Alert 2 just simply exits itself and returns you to your desktop. The problem is the PROGRAM not your computer! My dad owns a business firm and he just got a load of new computers for his company all 1ghz 256mb ram etc, and he let me get one of the comps and the crash STILL happens, it isnt your computer its the PROGRAM. comeon.........
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sgtmay
Member
posted 04-16-2001 03:42 PM
um....hate to say this but.....
I got the same response from westwood twice.
(the one that was posted at the start of this topic)
Sam hoffman doesnt even know who he sends this stuff to.
Obviously they have a lot of people with this problem or he would be more personal about his support instead of sending carbon copys of the same thing over...and over...and over again.
The post at the top of page one is an exact duplicate of the one i got at the beginning of last month and the end of last month.
ok...here ya go...this is what i got.
OK, from your desktop press ctrl-alt-del. This will bring up a window.
This is your MS Task Manager. You should have a lot of things appear in the
window. This is a list of everything you have running in the background.
Each of these little items uses some of your memory. The problem you are
having is that so much of the memory is being used, there is not enough
left. Now most of these items that running do not need to be running while
you are playing any game. Simply highlight one of them and press the "end
task" button at the bottom. You will need to open and end a task each time.
ALWAYS LEAVE EXPLORER AND SYSTRAY RUNNING! Never turn these two off. After
you have turned off everything except for Explorer and systray, try running
your game again.
Let me know if you have anymore questions by replying back to this email.
Thanks.
-Sam Hoffman
Westwood Studios
Customer Support
Duh!!!!...Ya think i havent tried that at least a dozen times???!!!!
I even got an e-mail from Kim Talbot...but when i e-mailed her back...with ATTN:KIM TALBOT in the subject bar....who do you think e-mailed me back...with the same dumb A** response.....MR. Sam I am Hoffman(with the same stupid suggestion)
I've given up on this...I'm now just gonna be a mod maker till they can get this problem fixed.
No more online crashes for me THANK YOU!!
I....GIVE....UP!!!
Done with the whole online crash to desktop BS.
No More....No More....No More.
With the sheer number of posts on this topic i would think that WS would pull their heads outa their a__es and fix the problem instead of just playing it off like it's nothing.
Have fun with the crashes...i'm gonna go back to my modding.
My posts on this BB have dropped drasticly since i gave up on westwood(from 10-30 a day to 1 or 2 a week)
after i'm done making this mod i'm gonna tear their code in the ra2.mix apart and find the problem myself...10 to 1 I find it before they do.(the problem is in the RA2.mix...I already have it narrowed down to that file....But oh what a big freaking file to tear apart)
And i'd almost guarantee it's in one of the encrypted ini's packed in the mix(got the tools to read it all now...just dont have the time...have deadlines to meet)
When i do find the problem i will post it in big bold letters on this bulliten board.
Just keep an eye out for a post that says....
I FOUND YOUR CRASH TO DESK TOP PROBLEM WESTWOOD AND THIS IS WHAT IT IS...
Peace Out.
Eric(sgtmay)
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Core36
Member
posted 04-16-2001 03:52 PM
I find it hard to believe it takes over 2 months to find this bug. IF...you are trying to find it. If you don't have the same hardware we are using, buy it. I'm starting to think any responses from Westwood in this thread is just lip service.
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-16-2001 03:52 PM
You are an animal dude!!
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Holycrawler
Member
posted 04-16-2001 04:16 PM
Come on Haylcon,
This doesnt take alot of brain power to figure this one out. What everyone is expriencing is NOT a desktop crash, the Program it self is at fault. Your memory Ram, lets you operate a certain amout of programs at one time. Correct me if i am wrong but if you are using to many programs (window users) A blue screen will pop up and say that you are running too many programs etc. BLUE Screen, Red Alert 2 just simply exits itself and returns you to your desktop. The problem is the PROGRAM not your computer! My dad owns a business firm and he just got a load of new computers for his company all 1ghz 256mb ram etc, and he let me get one of the comps and the crash STILL happens, it isnt your computer its the PROGRAM. comeon
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JB007Rules
Member
posted 04-16-2001 04:39 PM
i still think that its due to amd processers (its a bug that will be fixed i sure) because i have an intel p2 and this never happenes. but i just got a new amd duron 700 mhg 128 ram and it happenes ALL THE TIME. usually when i right click in a certain spot.
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Eby
Member
posted 04-16-2001 04:49 PM
The only time I've crashed is trying to tab over while it is looking for q QM partner. My old school computer is the best!
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-16-2001 05:06 PM
In an effort to help out:
AMD Athlon 700
Riva TNT2 M64 w/32 megs RAM
Detonator 3 driver
DirectX version: 8.0a
Win98 SE
196 Megs RAM
As an aside, I still get the same IPF when running the EZ program from the CD. I'm sure you all are busy, but when you get a free moment and can make that new build of the EZ utility available, I'd appreciate it.
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-16-2001 05:17 PM
i play loads of games on the net
age of empires and conquerors.rouge spear.
star trek voyager.delta force 2and land warrior.quake 3 etc with no probs.
without shutting down backdown programmes
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-16-2001 06:05 PM
Locke_Cole: The reason that most of the people here appear to have AMDs is because the purpose of this thread is to take a look at the AMD crash to desktop issue.
As for your system, first, this build of EZPro is not WinNT kernel friendly. It still reads enough that I can tell you that you must shut down ICQ when playing. You have a few things you should get rid of.
Toxic_Mule: Your argument is inacurate. I have been working on this all along. I am spending more time here now because I am running out of email concerning this topic. I am hoping to drum up more evidence that this is a bug.
AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, DUE TO THE FACT THAT I STILL HAVE NOT VERIFIED THIS, THIS IS NOT BEING CLASSIFIED AS A BUG.
This doesn't mean I'm not working on it. But it doesn't sound like a duck, it doesn't walk like a duck, it doesn't look like a duck - so it isn't a duck!
SgtMay: Sorry for the resend. If at the end of the week I do not get to your email, you are sent a request to either send me a new EZ report or to do the typical shut down and try again. This won't happen if you reply to any email from RA2Help and keep the message threads going.
I am sorry guys, but I am still not seeing a defined bug anywhere. Each of you are providing different information and in many cases, different types of errors.
Still working on it...
Tim-WS
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-16-2001 06:34 PM
Well umm..Tim. No pun intended. But how do you expect us to prove to you that this is a bug. Your in the middle of the game.. Playing...about to attack..Moving units whatever. And in the blink of an eye. Your back to your desktop. Now how are we going to go about proving this is a bug or a figment of our imagination?
I am also curious... When my game worked completely fine in version 1.003. Why wouldnt it work fine 1.004?
[This message has been edited by ViZioN X (edited 04-16-2001).]
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Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
Core36
Member
posted 04-16-2001 07:20 PM
I am reading tons of the same error...crash to desktop. Not much else to say.
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murc
Member
posted 04-16-2001 07:28 PM
This definately appears as a bug. I have 5 computers running RA2(2 Intel laptops and 3 AMD desktop machines). Two of the AMD computers have developed the crash to desktop phenomenon after the 1.004 update. There are no messages after the crash, just RedAlert2 is not running anymore. Each computer has at least 128 megs of ram. We totally shutdown any programs running in the background. We have also disabled any sleep functions. It does seem to be memory related in that it only seems to occur after the game has bulked up with units and a lot more action. More action earlier on causes the crash sooner.
It is well known that AMD processors access memory differently than Intel processors which allows AMD CPU's to operate faster. This faster access could also cause any memory leaks to be accelerated. I think that Westwood should revisit the 1.004 patch and take a finer look at the update that seems to have caused this memory leak.
Luckily I have access to multiple machines. If I didn't, I'd be very upset with Westwood.
Just my 2 cents.
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-16-2001 07:29 PM
Tim-WS:
First to your reply to me--
Uh, no, this isn't an AMD only thread, I don't know where you got that idea from, but the title of this thread indicates otherwise. Second, it's not an AMD only issue, that's a red herring and a rather large one at that (note that I said the **whole** message board seems biased towards using AMD processors, not just this thread).
Next, you guys should have your developers fix the code in WW's system info tool if it doesn't work with NT/2000. As for ICQ; that's a red herring again, ICQ doesn't crash anything else, why would it suddenly decide to mess with RA2?
As for you not classifying it as a bug, you're gauging this thing wrong-- it's clearly a bug, as a number of users are experiencing it and have reported it in both this board and in your own e-mail. RA2 should write an error log when it crashes instead of just getting killed and returning to the desktop like it does. (Yes, I know that under certain situations it DOES indeed write an error file, but in the crash to desktop bug experienced by most of the readers in this board, they don't have one written to disk.)
Please have your developers release a new interim release that writes error logs in ALL crash situations. This would probably make tracking it down SO much easier.
[This message has been edited by Locke_Cole (edited 04-16-2001).]
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Core36
Member
posted 04-16-2001 07:30 PM
Okay Tim-ws, you took a shot at it, now it's time to call in the big boys.
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Tyler Durden 75
Member
posted 04-16-2001 07:36 PM
A lot of people really hate the hole desktop crash thing. How hard could it be to fix?
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Alslayer
Member
posted 04-16-2001 08:53 PM
sgtmay
If I was to debug this problem I would start out checking out the patch 4.0 files. Or check the system files for when 3.0 is patched and compare it to 4.0 being patched.
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-16-2001 10:06 PM
after I read th message of tim i can say everyone that we can wait until the cows come home.
We should play other games. Can anybody tell me some good games that are similar to RA2. Please do not speak of Westwood products anymore. What is about Age of Empires? Can I play it online?
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Sparky9292
Member
posted 04-16-2001 10:57 PM
Like I said before, if Modem to Modem was left in, I won't have to muck around with the complicated and unreliable dial-up server that Win98 provides.
My question. Why leave out the modem to modem code?
I'm FORCED to play with a broken patch because you FORCE me to play though westwood online. That's BULL.
No where on the box did Westwood say "Hey, even though we put modem to modem in C&C, Red Alert, Tiberian Sun, we'll just leave it out."
That's fradulent. It teaches me a lesson not to just jump right out and buy your game.
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Theotherside
Member
posted 04-16-2001 11:03 PM
WW this is getting out of control.... how can you not recreate this crash?
If you think it is memory related load up everything, see if it crashes, if it does not, try another set up... try a good 100 setups... if they is no crash can you stop given out the bull about shutting everything down.
If you find the crash then you have something to work on.
The fact is unless you have tried overloading the system with loads of crap and got the crash you can't say this will fix it.
Delphi said you have not managed to recreate this crash at all... WTF!!! Come to my house... AUSTRALIA you can see it here...
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-17-2001 03:25 AM
Theotherside:
That's just the thing, Westwood doesn't seem to think you should be running ANYTHING **BUT** Red Alert 2 while playing (thus negating the entire purpose of a multi-tasking operating system). Why again did Westwood release Red Alert 2 for Windows '95/'98/SE/ME and Windows NT/2000 if all they really wanted to support was DOS (read: single tasking environments, save the random TSR program)?
It just irks me that every other game (and developer) doesn't seem to have problems with apps running, except WW.
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dinomole
Member
posted 04-17-2001 06:00 AM
can anyone tell me how to run the game in a window because i don't know whether that worked or not but i guess its worth a try.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-17-2001 06:11 AM
Guys,
Attacking Tim and Westwood isnt going to make them want to fix this problem. Technically if you have an AMD CPU it doesnt meet the system requierments because ra2 requires a Pentium 2 266Mhz+. NOTICE THE PENTIUM 2!!!! SO stop complaining and ask them why its not fixed. Why dont you go ask AMD why their CPU isnt compatible with a game that requirers a Pentium CPU?
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azzkicker400
Member
posted 04-17-2001 07:51 AM
hey not all amd users get the problem and some pentium users get the problem so it isn't really amd's fault
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azzkicker400
Member
posted 04-17-2001 07:52 AM
hey not all amd users get the problem and some pentium users get the problem so it isn't really amd's fault!
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azzkicker400
Member
posted 04-17-2001 07:56 AM
hey not all amd users get the problem and some pentium users get the problem so it isn't really amd's fault!
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azzkicker400
Member
posted 04-17-2001 07:59 AM
just thought i had to post multiple times because whenever i post in this topic my message gets like trampled by other messages so like no one sees mine
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noelephant
Member
posted 04-17-2001 08:18 AM
You don't have to play RA2 online using patch 1.004.
You can use a gaming service such as Kahn or Kali to play online.
www.KahnCentral.net - Free - no Win2k Compat.
www.Kali.net - one time $20 registration fee.
Hey Sparky I agree - Don't buy games until
they have been out for 5 months or so.
I picked up a copy of Unreal - The original last week. Wow! Perfectly stable, no problems, nice looking graphics. They must have patched it half to death and repackaged it.
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-17-2001 08:38 AM
Processor: AMD Thunderbird 900MHz
Video: Voodoo5 5500 AGP
Driver Version: 1.04.01 beta (Nov 28, 2000)
DirectX 8.0a runtime
Windows 98 First Edition
128 MB PC 100 PNY RAM, plus 32 MB PC 100 PNY RAM...total 160 MB
It's not the beta video driver either...before anyone gets that idea in their head. This crash happened well before I updated that driver, AND it's the absolute latest driver for the Voodoo 5.
As far as Westwood's AMD machines, those machines are either rigged somehow, or the folks who use them are lying about the crash...either lying to tech support or (more likely) lying to us.
I've seen rigged AMD machines before...for the purpose of selling processors and fans. I'm sure you could make one do anything you want.
Tim-WS: If you have my EZ report, you have my permission to post it here. Just don't post my IP address or my Windows serial number, please. Maybe someone can look at it and solve any problem my system may have.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-17-2001 08:49 AM
I am convinced Westwood is lying.
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Angrybeaver911
Member
posted 04-17-2001 09:12 AM
HAHAHAHAH O my god. Freelance you are seriously pathetic... I'd like to know what kinda machine you have?? I'm sure it's one that doesn't crash. If it was you'd be the same exact way so shut up!
Westwood... Seriously, Do you think that the consumers are ALL idiots? I know that some are but there are many intelligent people that come to this message board. And you give us these garbage answers?
Tim. I just want you to explain one thing to me. Why is it that when I have RA2 installed w/patch 1.04 that every time I reboot my system it tells me that it's updating my config files???? How does that happen? And I know it's from the patch because I tried it w/o 1.04 and w/ 1.03 and TOTALLY FINE. How is this not a bug???? HOW IS THIS NOT A FRIGGIN BUG!!!!!!????? Screw your emails and look at this thread!!! Is this not enough to tell you that it's a bug? I'm sorry I'm being so rude and mean to you but the answers you are giving are totally bogus.
It's about time you realize that before 1.04 things were fine and now they're just rediculous.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING OR DO I HAVE TO GET 3 MIllION PEOPLE TO POST ON THIS THREAD!!!! ... that's about how many people are having this problem
Freelance - feel free to stop posting anytime you'd like
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ChixMan
Member
posted 04-17-2001 09:13 AM
Hi I have same probs as everyone as this--I will never buy another westwood product due to poor service--not game probs. But here is a suggestion for all--update all your drivers as well.
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noelephant
Member
posted 04-17-2001 09:30 AM
You don't have to play RA2 online using patch 1.004.
You can use a gaming service such as Kahn or Kali to play online.
www.KahnCentral.net - Free - no Win2k Compat.
www.Kali.net - one time $20 registration fee.
Hey Sparky I agree - Don't buy games until
they have been out for 5 months or so.
I picked up a copy of Unreal - The original last week. Wow! Perfectly stable, no problems, nice looking graphics. They must have patched it half to death and repackaged it.
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-17-2001 09:46 AM
Ok perhaps thats the reason:
There is a bug in the Via-chipsets with 686B-southbridge. Via said this today. But I am not sure if its the reason for our problems.
You are not able to put two components to the IDE-Controller in UDMA mode. They said there can be a lack of data. PIO Mode is working.
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-17-2001 10:32 AM
Superpatch,
What's the URL ?
Again , new hope...
I HAVEN"T HEARD ONE SINGLE CRASH TO DESKTOP FROM A PENTIUM USER !! ANYONE ???
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Alslayer
Member
posted 04-17-2001 11:24 AM
If I had my dsl I would test the desktop crash bug. Didn't Tim already post that? I was also wondering does anyone use zonealarm?
I played Red Alert 1 with it in the background and the game crashed. I turned it off and it still crashed. I told it not to activate on startup and the crash went away. Just some info for you guys.
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BizkitRa2
Member
posted 04-17-2001 12:05 PM
could we not all just go back to 1.003.. I mean better the devils (bugs) you know than the outrageously big one u dont (crash 2 desktop) I was just wondering I hav a 70% crash ratio (it crashes 7 out of 10 times) and i believe I am the worst.....am i
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-17-2001 12:31 PM
hello juulepuul. Only url I found is here in Germany:
http://www.chip.de/news_stories/news_stories_151268.html
its from today (17. April, 2001)
if you want to have some fun you can use babelfish
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-17-2001 12:50 PM
I pushed it trough babelfish:
------------------------------
Muelheim (in)? For days on different hardware pages in the Internet a bug in the 686B-Southbridge of VIA one discusses. Both Main boards with AMD and VIA Chipsatz are concerned, on which the 686B-Southbridge is used - particularly boards with Apollo KT13Á-Chipsatz. Become to the 686B-Southbridge, into which the IDE CONTROLLER is integrated, two ATA-100-Laufwerke attached, then it can come to overruns and even damages. However for it the UDMA mode must be activated. If the drives in the PIO mode are operated, then no problems are to be determined up to now. VIA the error officially in a press release acknowledged now. According to Richard Brown, Director OF marketing of VIA, is to occur the error however not with all chip corroding. " in the context of our own tests we stated that it concerns a problem concerning the BIOS ", so Brown. VIA operates at present on an BIOS update, which is to recover the error. A list of the Main boards concerned is to have to be found shortly on the German homepage of VIA.
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transnote
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:00 PM
I POSTED THIS PREVIOUSLY IN THIS THREAD.
Go down to my post on page 5 of this thread that starts with
"Attention VIA Mainboard Users"
This was days ago....try and keep up people
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:05 PM
here is the next article translated with babelfish:
VIA Chipsatz damages data Into the VIA Soutbridge 82C686B is an error, which can lead to incorrect fixed disk transfers. The error goes into action, if during high load on the PCI bus large quantities of data move from first to the second IDE channel. The chip record manufacturer VIA acknowledges this error meanwhile officially. Therefore all Main boards are not concerned, besides is the error with an BIOS update to deal. On via cyrix.de a list with the Main boards and BIOS updates concerned is to appear shortly. Loud VIA the error occurs only with the KT13Á-Chipsatz (for AMD Athlon and Duron), but the Southbridge 686B is also on Main boards with the Northbridges VIA 694X (for Intel processors), to find VIA KT133 and AMD-760 (both for AMD processors). Boards with other VIA Southbridges do not seem concerned like the 68Ã, VT8231 or VT8233; errors are just as few in other chip corroding as the Ali Magik 1 well-known. The Southbridge 686B is tied up as PCI DEVICES to the Northbridge and contains two IDE channels, hardware monitoring, complete super I/O function including four of USB port as well as AC97-Soundfaehigkeiten. First the hardware page had discovered outer-yes this error and had published. There is also a test procedure, with which users can examine whether they are concerned. In the c't laboratory the error could be placed behind: To the two IDE channels of the Soutbridge were ever a fixed disk attached; a copying process transferred large files from first to the second disk. The load on the PCI produced a playing of a MP3-Datei over a sound blowing he card (Soundblaster Live! 1024 VALUE). Already after few transfer service transfer error occurred to gigabyte, which expressed itself in destroyed files or system crashes. Shifting down the fixed disks on Ultra-DMA/33, Multiword DMA (direct memory access) or PIO did not bring improvement. Several Workarounds are possible: The operators of outer-yes recommend to modify three BIOS adjustments: " PCI Delay Transaction " and " PCI master READ Caching " should be switched off, the " PCI Latency " should on 32 or smaller be. If the BIOS Setup does not offer these parameters, there is a solution by means of the Tools WPCRSET. From power-off of these functions off results a power loss, which is hardly measurable however. On many of the Main boards concerned a separate IDE chip does not put like the Highpoint HPT370 or Promise PDC20265R. fixed disks attached there can by errors in the Southbridge be affected. To what extent other IDE devices (CD ROM, DVD, burner) are touched by the error, is still unclear. The test system in the c't laboratory operated stably, after the sound blowing he card was removed and the MP3-Ausgabe over the Onboard sound ran. However apparent not the sound card generally causes the error, but the high load on the PCI bus. Also different cards (SCSI, TV, network) could produce loads, with which the 686B-Southbridge comes into wobbling. It remains being waiting whether VIA it copies the chip record contractor Intel and starts a recall action as with the MTH bug in Intels i820-Chipsatz. But power-off of some PCI abilities off possibly avoids the error reliably enough, so that an BIOS update heals the Main boards concerned (jow/c't)
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:14 PM
ok can only post all the urls I found. Most are in German. The press release of via is also in Germany. Its nearly 5 days old:
vias press release:
http://home.nikocity.de/doelf/review-kt133a-presse.html
some fixes for the bug:
http://www.au-ja.de/
also new and perhaps better bug fixes on:
http://www.viahardware.com/download/viatweak.shtm
I am not sure if this is the reason for the desktop-crash. But a good chance, isnt it?
Greetings
superpatch
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:18 PM
-FreeLaNce-:
Uh, the problem is, I have an Intel CPU (2 actually) and I have the crash to desktop problem everyone else is experiencing. I've also seen other Intel CPU users say they've had the problem as well;
The real problem is that since so many gamers use AMD CPU's it LOOKS like the problem is strictly with AMD processors-- this is not the case and in fact the problem is experienced by both AMD and Intel users..
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:21 PM
Well, I have a kx133 board. (I guess it doesn't count for this board)
But just to be sure I turned off UDMA on all IDE channels except my primary master drive.
This should overcome the prob if it were on my system would it ??
I also found a beta fix on www.viahardware.com but I'm not intending to use it since I think it might do me more harm then good (same as the BIOS "upgrade" from jetway)
But thanks again !!
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:24 PM
hey, locke, are you sure you have the R E A L Crash to desktop - no error message, just bang, and you are on the desktop???
It think a lot of people who have internal errors, post here, but shouldnt. Sorry if I am wrong.
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Holycrawler
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:25 PM
Are we attacking tim freelance? We are gamers and have been adressing this issue, eversince i started playing on my AMD computer. I dont know if it was replied or not but i know that there has been posts ever since January on this problem. Oh and as a little note:
On Pentium2 computers SLOWER than 400mhz the desktop crash happens, i tried it on a 1ghz computer with pentium 4 and it works fine, maybe it has something to do with SPEED. Westwood should try this test out.... maybe re-write the computer requirements....
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Author
Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:35 PM
juulepuul:
Hi. I use Intel Pentium III CPU's and I have the crash-to-desktop bug. There, now you've seen someone say it. (Actually a lot of people have said it, but apperently you missed all of them..)
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Core36
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:38 PM
Locke_Cole, are you using a VIA motherboard?
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:39 PM
best url is:
http://home.nikocity.de/doelf/review-kt133a-1-en.html
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:40 PM
Superpatch:
I've posted elsewhere (different threads, this board), and yes, it's the same problem. No error log is generated, it crashes directly to the desktop at seemingly random times (always while playing the game though, never had it happen while navigating the games menus). Specifically--
1) Playing game, whee, fun.
2) Game stops and I'm immediatly shown the desktop.
3) After a few seconds (this may be video driver related, so "a few seconds" may be instant on some machines) the video mode is switched BACK to my usual video mode of 1024x768x32bpp. (I play RA2 in 1024x768x16bpp, obviously 16bpp because Westwood chose this bit-depth for us.)
And Task Manager in Windows 2000 shows no remnants of RA2 at ALL. (Nadda, zilch, zippo, no weird executables or tasks running, etc.)
I'm fairly certain this is the same bug everyone else is talking about.
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:46 PM
Core36:
I'm using a Tyan Tiger 133 (dual processor motherboard) with the Apollo Pro 133A chipset from Via (so yes, to your question). I've got two Intel Pentium III 800EB processors in it, and 1.25GB of PC133 SDRAM (3x 256MB and 1x 512MB). ATI Rage Fury Pro 32MB ViVo, SoundBlaster Live! Value, 20GB WD HDD, 60GB Maxtor HDD, 4GB Fujitsu HDD, Pioneer DVD-ROM (slot load, 105 I believe is the model number), Plextor PlexWriter 12/10/32S SCSI CD-RW attached to an Adaptec SCSI adapter. Promise ATA/100 controller. ActionTec 56k PCI modem (not a winmodem, it has the controller in it).
That about covers it for hardware. I run Windows 2000 Server with Service Pack 1 and all of the latest updates from http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/downloads as well as all the latest drivers for the various pieces of hardware I use (and latest firmware, where applicable).
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Core36
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:51 PM
Is it safe to say everyone with desktop crash has a VIA motherboard?
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-17-2001 01:53 PM
Lock_cole,
ALthough a Pentium crash is confirmed now,
it even more raises the suspicions of this causing the much feared and hated crash !!
Tomorrow, I'm gonna try all the things suggested in the url from superpatch and then I'll count my games !!
WHHOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO new hopes 1!!!!!@@!!@*(^*(^$JKHJK!!!!!
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-17-2001 02:02 PM
Core36:
Well, if we can find someone who has the crash-to-desktop bug that is using a Pentium 4, then that would eliminate the Via motherboard issue (since Via doesn't make Pentium 4 chipsets (yet)).
I'm less inclined to believe it's a chipset issue or CPU issue though, I definately believe it to be a coding issue since **no other application or game experiences this problem**. I really wish I could offer more help to Westwood, since I *like* Red Alert 2, and would like to play it normally.. but since their game doesn't generate an error log, there's no way to determine WHERE in the code the problem is happening.
Tim, why doesn't RA2 generate an error log during these events? You say you've re-created this bug while running certain applications or using older/bad drivers-- does your re-creation also generate an error log, or not? If it doesn't, then the coders should work on fixing their error logging code and releasing a patch for that purpose alone.. this would go a long way towards finding the real problem.
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-17-2001 02:02 PM
hello Juulepuul,
I am going to post in the new topic, about this special Idea in the new topic:
Desktop-Crash: solved???
This topic here is to long and full of other ideas. You already saw it but it is not necessary that we post the same messages in both topics, isnt it?
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DarthMonkey
Member
posted 04-17-2001 02:21 PM
Tim, if the problem is with the way RA2 writes to the ram, what happened to change it between 1.003 and 1.004? Does the game try to write more or less? Or would a win98/me/2000 update have changed that? I mean, if even someone that has a buttload of ram is still having that problem what then?
Also, would it help to send a EA bug report after we shutdown all of the programs in the background so that you guys can see that yes were doing it, but it still crashes?
Also, would having a cable modem running in the background hurt the game if I'm playing the missions? By running I mean just on. Not downloading something or anything like that.
Well, in the mean time I going back to playing TS. Atlest it doesn't crash.
Amd Athlon 750, 64megs ram, win982nd, tnt2 mod64 with det3, dx8.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-17-2001 03:17 PM
Angrybeaver911,
Your ignorance is unbeliveable. You have no idea what your talking about nor do you have any experiance in the tech support feild. I repair computers its part of my job as an Network Admin/IT Staff. I have an Intel CPU and have delt with people having problems with AMD cpus and Red Alert 2.
"I just want you to explain one thing to me. Why is it that when I have RA2 installed w/patch 1.04 that every time I reboot my system it tells me that it's updating my config files???? How does that happen? "
Its very simple.. this is a windows problem. It can because by anything, if it happened after the 1.004 patch maybe the install got messed up but I doubt that could cause it because I dont think the 1.004 makes any changes to you windows system files (If it did you would have to restart your computer when you install 1.004.. gotta love windows ). Have you even read some of Tims post?? Have you even tried some of the suggestions here?? Dont say you did if you didnt because that wont fix the problem.
AND to eveyone saying its not AMD's problem, I ask you to take out your RA2 box right now and look what it says for system requirements. I know my box says P2 266Mhz Or Higher. No where does it say P2 Or Athlon 266Mhz or higher. Its your fault for not reading the system reqiurements on the box and I think westwood is being very nice in helping out people with AMD CPUs. But they way you guys are treating them is UNBELIVABLE! If I was westwood I would just give up because no one is even GREATFULL that they are atleast TRYING!!
Angrybeaver911.. You should now feel free to stop pasting your ignorance on this topic. Your problem will never be fixed if you keep acting like a 12 year old(Which I belive you really are).
[This message has been edited by -FreeLaNce- (edited 04-17-2001).]
[This message has been edited by -FreeLaNce- (edited 04-17-2001).]
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-17-2001 03:24 PM
me or angybeaver?
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rush2112
Member
posted 04-17-2001 03:34 PM
With a post like that, it would be evident he means you freelance.
Of course, I maybe wrong.
-=)Rush(=-
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-17-2001 03:50 PM
Do you guys remeber why the last post like this got deleted? Because of flames.. I wouldnt be supprised if Tim never posted here again or had this topic deleted.
Please Core, Angrybeaver and whoever else THINKS they know everything about computers and how they operate. I have a AS Degree, CCNA Cert and 6 years of experiance in the computer feild. Just because 1.004 crashes on AMD computers it means its all westwoods fault? I'm serious look at your boxes right now and tell me what does it say.. It says P2 266Mhz or higher. NO WHERE ON THE BOX DOES IT SAY AMD. That does not mean that amd cpus will not work with the game it just says TECHNICALY you do not meet the system requirements. The stupidity amazes me in some of these post, Angrybeavers post amazes me the most because he blames westwood for the updating you config files every time he reboots. For hevans sake this is just stupid, I wouldnt be supprised if westwood just stopped helping you right now!
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Core36
Member
posted 04-17-2001 04:09 PM
Freelance, does it matter if Westwood deletes this topic? Have we gotten anywhere? No, we are at the same place as 2 months ago.
If you don't think Westwood intended for this game to run on AMD machines you're crazy. The AMD gaming community is growing very fast.
Also, we have tried every possible fix. You think we are sitting back waiting for Westwood? I know I've tried EVERYTHING. One last thing I will try tonight, the VIA PCI fix.
Another thing Freelance, I have 15 years in the computer field, plus I've been playing computer games since Atari/Com64 days. I know anytime a company starts telling you to shutdown all progs in the background we have a serious problem.
Another thing, I don't believe Tim when he says they have 30 AMD machines and none of them crash. Read all the users having problems here. Does Westwood have any systems that resemble ours, we've sent them the EZ reports. I don't believe they are trying hard enough to recreate this problem.
Freelance if you don't have this problem, please butt out.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-17-2001 04:40 PM
2 of my clients do so i'm not going to "buttout". Look I'm not saying that westwood didnt intend for it to ran on intel cpus only, from the requirements on the box it sure does look that way. AMD is a cheap brand of proccesors, its less compatiable in alot of aspects. Dont cry when your $150 CPU isnt very compitable because you decided to save $50. If your really upset go to AMD and complain because there CPU cant emmulate Intel!
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Core36
Member
posted 04-17-2001 04:46 PM
Freelance, Locke_Cole says his Intel system has the same problem, so stop putting down AMD.
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-17-2001).]
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WaveCable
Member
posted 04-17-2001 05:18 PM
-FreeLaNce-
I have 2 computers. One is Intel and one is AMD.
I find my AMD computer more stable running apps like VB6 and Access then my Intel computer.
Don’t get me wrong I like Intel and I use it for other apps like CorelDraw and Photo, but I would rather keep that $50 bucks in my pocket then buy a processor with a big I on it.
I have only had a crash to desktop once with my AMD system which was caused by bad ram. My Intel has never crashed to the desktop, but has much lower RA2 gaming hours on it.
I think you may want to lay off the AMD issue a bit because I have seen posts about Intel crashing to the desktop as well. Both of these processors should be able to play the game fine. I would really have to wonder about a game that was released only for an Intel system. Don't ya think that sounds strange? An INTEL game only?
I think most people with this bug are being pretty good about things and I’m surprised I don’t see more flaming about it. I hope this bug gets fixed soon for these guys.
Oh ya BTW -FreeLaNce- you've done alot of posts on this isssue and even though I don't agree with you about the AMD thing I would like to thank you for some of the helpfull posts you have done for people.
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-17-2001 05:52 PM
-FreeLaNce-:
Uh, it may not say AMD processors on the box, but neither does most other software. Duh. AMD processors are 100% (atleast these days, back when they started out their processors were, uh, less than ideal) compatible with Intel's IA-32 instruction set, and aside from adding their own instructions (3DNow!, etc) they're almost identical (save for SSE, SSE2, which since RA2 supports a Pentium 233, SSE2 and SSE are both OPTIONAL).
Please, quit nit-picking over the box art, if that's your only response then I (and most everyone else in this thread) probably agree it's pretty weak.
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-17-2001 06:03 PM
-FreeLaNce-:
This will be my final reply to you, barring any amazing miracles in the coming future--
I don't respect people who have CCNA, MCSE or other "fancy paper certificates that say you're smart". I'm self-taught, and been in the software development business for almost a decade, playing games even longer, and doing low level assembly programming that you'd probably choke if you even looked at. PLEASE, quit trying to put folks down by playing the "I'm smarter" game-- there's always someone smarter than you reading here, just remember that.
On to your rubbish--
AMD processors are 100% compatible with Intel CPU's on the instructions that Intel created (collectivly known as IA-32). I can understand your ignorance on the subject, however, since AMD **USED** to be VERY incompatible and tended to crash while running IA-32/x86 code not specifically written for their microprocessors. Today with the Athlon and greater (and really, anything beyond their 486 clones), they not only emulate the processor, they often outperform Intel processors at certain functions (not all, mind you). Crying about compatibility when that's been a long dead issue won't get you anywhere. If there's ANY problems related to AMD processors, it's the chipsets that drive them.
(This from a die-hard Intel fan, too.. normally I bash AMD, but even *I* admit that they're getting the compatibility right, and their floating point unit finally kicks butt.)
Sigh, anyways, it appears Tim-WS has either a) given up or b) been busy with trying to reproduce the bug, because he hasn't posted to anything today.
To Westwood, I don't mean to be harsh, certainly I may come off as such, but your excuses just DO NOT wash with someone that's a software developer. Citing "background" applications as the root of all evil smacks of desperate solutions, if I've ever seen it. And the original issue with "too little free memory" made me sit up and laugh, considering I've dealt with this problem for a long time with over a gig of memory.. Please, let's be honest with players and release a patch that will ATLEAST generate an error log so the developers can try to find a solution. I hope Westwood sees fit to follow this advice, and do something meaningful to solve this problem for both AMD *and* Intel processor users.
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spyclip
Member
posted 04-17-2001 07:19 PM
Well, we are certain it is NOT a RAM issue nor a resource issue. As CS majors at purdue, ive gathered a small circle of friends in on this little problem plaguing my friends comp. We have formatted his entire HD and reinstalled EVERYTHING, and run on a clean, fresh, systray & explorere only Athlon system. CRASH TO DESKTOP. Todya he even crashed to desktop form the lobby menu. Like everyone else, he has the newest drivers, directx, power settings checked, free RAM, and 1.004 patch <cough>. I cannot, no, i refuse to believe WW has yet to come across this problem with their "50 tst machines." I would bet money that they are all identical machines, which solves nothing. So got any updates for us WW?
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hades716
Member
posted 04-17-2001 07:57 PM
Its not my resources. i did a clean install of windows98. im running a athlon 1.2GHz 266 bus with 512MB DDR ram. ati xpert2000 32mb.
I get desktop crashes a few times a day. no crap about resources. what is the problem? fix it. dont give me crap that its AMDs fault. nothing else gives me problems. just RA2. fix it.
THIS IS A BUG. FIX IT.
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hades716
Member
posted 04-17-2001 08:01 PM
Its not my resources. i did a clean install of windows98. im running a athlon 1.2GHz 266 bus with 512MB DDR ram. ati xpert2000 32mb.
I get desktop crashes a few times a day. no crap about resources. what is the problem? fix it. dont give me crap that its AMDs fault. nothing else gives me problems. just RA2. fix it.
THIS IS A BUG. FIX IT.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-17-2001 08:19 PM
Locke_Cole,
Yes I'm sure you do hate people with certs and stuff like that. Thats fine, I'm self tought (cept for the cisco stuff). I have not learned any programing langugae (cept for HTML). I'm planing on learning C++ soon too. Did I forget to tell you i'm 17??(Sry I can only be humble so much ) Maybe AMD has gotten better but all I was trying to point out was that its not on the box, and people should BE GALD that westwood hasnt GIVEN UP on this issue.
ANYWAYS, the main point i'm trying to get through is that some PEOPLE here need to stop treating westwood so BAD. I'm sure they are trying their best to get this issue resolved in the quickest amount of time posible, this is proally why 1.005 is being delayed.
ALSO, To whoever said that this is not only happening on AMD cpu's but also Intel (With VIA Chipsets). I know this, I have been with this issue for the last few months and even made a topic (a while ago) where a few people with intel cpus and via chipsets had the problems. I also had one person with a amd chipset have the problem too (he could have had a memory issue though). I have suspected it to be the VIA chipsets(I found this out in the topic I made) for a while but never said anything because of the 2 people with the AMD chipsets having the problem.
IN SUMMERY... GUYS JUST CALM DOWN, DONT YELL AT WESTWOOD SAYING "Its still not fixed, fix it now!","They are lieing!" and other things like that. Insulting them and making them out to be the bad guys WILL NOT get your issue fixed!!!
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-17-2001 08:47 PM
I went to MSCONFIG and unchecked the "Load all startup programs" box. It really helped me prevent desktop crash.
Remember, "only YOU can prevent...destkop crashes!"
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-17-2001 08:47 PM
-FreeLaNce-:
About the AMD issue, like I've said before anyways, it's a red herring-- it occurs on Intel CPU's as well, so the issue of Intel vs. AMD (to me anyways) is pretty much moot.
As for leaving Westwood alone.. maybe, but about them lieing? They are! Why shouldn't we call them on the things they say? We were originally told it was a memory issue. Lie. We were then told it had something to do with resources, and not how much memory you had total. Lie. We're then told it's not a bug, but something wrong with your PC (lack of updates, memory conflicts (uh, that's DOS bud, not Windows), etc). Another lie. The problem is in Westwood's code. Maybe they're using some poorly written 'black box' component for Visual Studio or Borland Delphi/CBuilder, I don't know. But whatever the problem is, it's either a) in their own code, or b) in code written by others used in their game (statically linked code, not DLL's).
FINALLY, the issue of this bug not generating an error log NEEDS to be addressed. If I was a developer at Westwood, this would shoot off alarms to me that we're (Westwood developers) not properly catching all thrown exceptions, and need to find out where we're not using Structured Exception Handling.
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-17-2001 08:52 PM
Freelance, you can't insult someone with th TRUTH.
I find it very hard to believe some of the things Tim has said here...mainly the idea that it's AMD only or it'a memory issue.
I find it hard to believe the things Halcyon has said, and even Delphi before that (they are the same things).
Core: I have an AMD 750 chipset. I do not know if it's a re labeled VIA chipset, but I am goint to try the VIA fix anyway.
The 750 is a chipset I have heard very little about. I do not think it has the same south bridge as the KT133. The south bridge is simply called "AMD 756 Viper".
In other words, I think my chipset is different from the very common 760 and KT series chipsets...think is the operative word here.
I hate to send some folks searching for a culprit again (besides Westwood), but I don't think it's a VIA problem.
By the way, I do think anyone with that particular south bridge ought to get it fixed...that sounds pretty serious.
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-17-2001 08:53 PM
Freelance, you can't insult someone with th TRUTH.
I find it very hard to believe some of the things Tim has said here...mainly the idea that it's AMD only or it'a memory issue.
I find it hard to believe the things Halcyon has said, and even Delphi before that (they are the same things).
Core: I have an AMD 750 chipset. I do not know if it's a re labeled VIA chipset, but I am goint to try the VIA fix anyway.
The 750 is a chipset I have heard very little about. I do not think it has the same south bridge as the KT133. The south bridge is simply called "AMD 756 Viper".
In other words, I think my chipset is different from the very common 760 and KT series chipsets...think is the operative word here.
I hate to send some folks searching for a culprit again (besides Westwood), but I don't think it's a VIA problem.
By the way, I do think anyone with that particular south bridge ought to get it fixed...that sounds pretty serious.
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-17-2001 08:55 PM
Freelance, you can't insult someone with th TRUTH.
I find it very hard to believe some of the things Tim has said here...mainly the idea that it's AMD only or it'a memory issue.
I find it hard to believe the things Halcyon has said, and even Delphi before that (they are the same things).
Core: I have an AMD 750 chipset. I do not know if it's a re labeled VIA chipset, but I am goint to try the VIA fix anyway.
The 750 is a chipset I have heard very little about. I do not think it has the same south bridge as the KT133. The south bridge is simply called "AMD 756 Viper".
In other words, I think my chipset is different from the very common 760 and KT series chipsets...think is the operative word here.
I hate to send some folks searching for a culprit again (besides Westwood), but I don't think it's a VIA problem.
By the way, I do think anyone with that particular south bridge ought to get it fixed...that sounds pretty serious.
WTF westwood? Why can't I post this?!? I keep getting flood control notices!!!!!
I HAVEN'T POSTED IN HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-17-2001 08:58 PM
I think u should delete your double posts, so the moderators don't get the satisfaction of doing so! LOL j/k
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-17-2001 08:58 PM
By the way, the board was goofed up when I tried to post that last message.
I tried to erase the extra posts, but it's too goofed to work.
Screw it...the mod can erase them.
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saberX
Member
posted 04-17-2001 09:10 PM
Well I dunno what is goin on with all this so far, I havent been following this Topic THAT closely. But after my previous post on page 9 saying that I havent had the crash to desktop bug happen on windows 2000 and people sayin that the crash manifests itself it differnt ways in win2k (internal errors and such) I still almost never get those errors. Mabye once in about 5 days.
Anyway, out of my own curiosity I tested the game on a few different systems. Here are my results:
Athlon 1.2 GHz, 768Mb RAM, win2k,
- No crashes whatsoever game running for approx 4 1/2 hrs over a 2 day period.
Athlon 1.2 GHz, 768Mb RAM, win98, (same system as above)
- Crashes in a random basis, frequently (dead crash to desktop, no errors)
Pentium 900MhZ, 128Mb RAM, win98,
- Crashes in a random basis, frequently (dead crash to desktop, no errors)
Celeron 833MhZ, 128Mb RAM, win98,
- Crashes not so frequently, only one in a while. (still dead crash to desktop.)
Well those are my findings. and the best system config that held the game so far was the Athlon 1.2 Ghz running win2k.
And btw - no other system crashed before 1.004. 1.0-1.003 was stable for me. Mabye a small crash here and there..but "no crash to desktop" thing.
I don't wanna place blame on anyone here, but I wish this problem would be resolved already, more than 1/2 of this board and a few close friends are pulling out their hair cuz of this problem. I would say to re-check the coding of 1.004, it added a few kewl features but screwed up many people in the long run.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-17-2001 09:43 PM
Okay, I just tried a patch for the VIA PCI controller bug, plus I reinstalled RA2 and guess what, the game CRASHED TO DESKTOP.
TIM-WS and WESTWOOD, lets say its not a bug...you know patch 1004 is causing problems for alot of users. Why not go back to patch 1003(for good customer relations) so EVERYONE can play without any problems?
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-17-2001).]
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-17-2001 10:28 PM
yes, ha, I tested it too (via legacy patch) and it crashed in the first game after patching. That was nice so i didnt have to play all night.
But i didnt reinstall RA2.
[This message has been edited by Superpatch (edited 04-17-2001).]
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-17-2001 11:00 PM
Alright heres a twist for ya! I was playing on my p3 550 384mb of pc 133 SDRAM..Which has never had the crash t odesktop bug..Only my AMD does... And I crashed on the p3 just a few min ago! When it crashed the map was a money map had a ****load of untios all voer the place and just crashed on me... Its been working fine for a few weeks now ( p3 ) And it just crashed! Soo.. I guess that proves that this is a bug! bug bug bug!! bug bug buggyyy bugg bug bug! *COUGH*..Oh thats my computers sorry..They just have a "BUG" from ra2!
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Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
Caspar
Member
posted 04-18-2001 12:54 AM
BTW, Freelance, I have also experienced the 'updating files' message when my computers with RA2 ver 1.004 restarts. I have been trying to figure out where that came from. Now I know.
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Dragon97
Member
posted 04-18-2001 01:33 AM
I figure I would try my older computer that I have in the basement with RA2. The specs of it are
AMD K6-2 333 MHZ
64 MBs of Ram
15 GB HD
ATI Rage LT Pro
I have been playing with this computer for 3 days now and I have not crashed once with patch 1.004 and I havent evan updated one driver since I bought the thing. I give up with this dumb crash to desktop because it just happens on different types of computers but not all.
Oh and Freelance you must of bought a special RA2 or something because on my box it says P2 or equivelent which means a AMD. If you hate AMD good for you but this isnt a debate about AMD vs Intel, Its about fixing a problem with a game.
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Chrono_Gear
Member
posted 04-18-2001 02:13 AM
hey all.
look, i have the following sys specs
Celeron 400C
196MB SD-RAM
WINDOWS ME
and thats about all u need to know
but i have NEVER HAD THIS CRASHING PROBLEM
i play wol occasionally and i have never had a crash, now let me tell u all the things i have running in the background (and this is just the stuff in the system tray):
Norton Internet security 2001
Norton Anti-virus 2001
C-Media (a prog for my sound card)
MSN Messenger
ICQ 2000b
and since i have cable
Telstra Bigpond cable connection software
+ i have about 3000 other thing running in the background that i cant currently see.
now let me repeat my self
I HAVE NEVER HAD THIS CRASHING PROBLEM
i have also started using mods, and it works fine in single player mode, and twice i have done it on wol with a friend and
I HAVE NEVER HAD THIS PROBLEM
if this is related to AMD or PIII chips
there is a simple solution:
BUY ANOTHER CHIP
if u have p3, or p4 then u should easily have enough cash to get a celeron 1000
which is one of the most stable high-speed chips u can get (all celerons are stable)
and again
I HAVE NEVER HAD THIS PROBLEM
i'm even running ra2 off the dvd player, which only does 12x cd-rom
and i still dont get it
oh and have any of u ever heard of the command: FORMATT?
yes, format, its the simples solution to all your problems, when i bought ra2, i couldn't get it to work at all, i couldnt even get the auto play to work, and what did i do after 1 month of compleatly usless help from westwood?
FORMATT
and it fixed it instantally
INSTANTALLY
it is most likley to do with your operating system, just do a formatt, its simple
thanks for ur time
Mammoth_22
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-18-2001 02:55 AM
Dude...just quiet down... formatting isnt gonna do anything except waste time....Its the patch man. Its completely obvious that it is the patch! So go ahead..be a retard! Format your computer just so it will crash again!
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beregond
Member
posted 04-18-2001 04:25 AM
I had the same problem as the rest of you a while ago, but I found a way to solve it. Sort of...
It's not really a fix, and it may not be of much use to many of you, but upgrading from Windows 98SE to Windows 2000 fixed the problem for me. So if you have access to this OS, perhaps you should try the same.
I have a strong feeling there is a memory leak (or something similar) in 1.004, and Windows 2000 handles such problems much better than 98.
It worked for me...
Beregond
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-18-2001 04:33 AM
"BTW, Freelance, I have also experienced the 'updating files' message when my computers with RA2 ver 1.004 restarts. I have been trying to figure out where that came from. Now I know."
Are you blaming 1.004 for that updating files? Its not 1.004's fault (There is a VERY slim chance that It could be but its not) 1.004 does not ask you to restart after you install it because no system changes where made by 1.004.
As far as westwood lieing, i'll respond to that later as I am on my way to work and I REALLY needa leave
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toxic mule
Member
posted 04-18-2001 05:57 AM
tks dad(freelance)for the lecture...i really dont think ur helping that much. U havent even been on this board long enough to relate to our frustration and know the history since v1.004 went live. We have tried to be nice and patient...where r we? Nowhere-its almost 3 months. Maybe i can tell u whats happened sometime, but anytime i post it-its deleted proptly.
If this was say ID, the problems would have been fixed long ago.
Dont u think 3 months is a reasonable amount of time, if they r REALLY motivated to fix it. I'm not trying to flame u, but i dont think u understand what we have been through here. Its like ur a spokesperson for WW, but i think if u were here since JAN u might understand some of us more. Yes there are some idiots who just show up and for the first time start flaming WW, but at some point everyone gets po'ed
[This message has been edited by toxic mule (edited 04-18-2001).]
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Angrybeaver911
Member
posted 04-18-2001 08:02 AM
Freelance it really doesn't matter what you have to say because you are very very wrong. Do you work for Westwood? Your talkin all this garbage about your degrees and your experience really doesn't help you. We still think you are a moron Anyways, It is not a windows problem with updating the config files. It is the 1.04 patch. I found out once again for sure when I uninstalled Ra2 AGAIN monday (for the last time) and guess what? I've booted up about 10 times since then and no problems. Now when I had Ra2 installed with the 1.04 patch it happened every single time. Ra2 is definitely causing some type of conflict with windows b/c this should never happen. Maybe once after you change something in windows that needs to be reconfigured but not because of some game. Especially every time. I'm so convinced that they aren't going to solve the problem. 400 + posts!!! look at that!! This is obviously something they should be working on around the clock because there are many unhappy customers out there. As there always will be but i've seen many many companies go out of their way and bend themselves backwords because they realize that if it wasn't for us they wouldn't be here. I feel so decieved right now because I feel like they know they got my money so why should they care.
I'm done being nice about this... It's time to become the person who get's their way by yelling!
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SHADY-CNCU
Member
posted 04-18-2001 08:12 AM
i havent been able to play online since 1.004... its just givin me more time to play TS patience.. thats my advice... nothin ive done has helped to much.. i defragg after every game... uninstalled reinstalled everythin multiple occasions. just be patient... some how there will be a solution...
shady
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SolidJack
Member
posted 04-18-2001 08:25 AM
This is ridiculous, the desktop crash is a PROBLEM, U can't get out of having to fix it with calling it a "technical issue"
It's a PROBLEM, it shouldn't be happening but becuz of WW it is.
Its a mistake with the 4 patch, even if its caused by RAM or its down to a persons computers settings it WW's fault for not realising this and releasing it as it is.
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Caspar
Member
posted 04-18-2001 09:28 AM
Yeah Freelance. I'm saying it's the patch. The updating files message is gone since i took the game off my computer with the problems.
I'm trying not to bash you but you make it very hard. I realize it's a problem not soley confined to the game, but THE PATCH FOR THE GAME CREATED THE CONFLICT!
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G.I Jo
Member
posted 04-18-2001 09:29 AM
dere iz no probs wid ME desktop
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rararick
Member
posted 04-18-2001 09:46 AM
As someone mentioned before, RA2 writes entries to the wininit.ini (I believe to delete some temp files). Windows shows that it is updating configuration because it is reading the file deletions from wininit. So Yes, 1.004 is probably causing the config update.
[This message has been edited by rararick (edited 04-18-2001).]
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-18-2001 10:26 AM
What is going on here? I take a day off and you all revert to a bunch of flaming trolls with misleading information.
First, my involvement on this thread is to take a look at how the community feels about the alleged AMD crash to desktop issue. I am not here to discuss intel or any other processors (had a few emails about why doesn't the game work on a Cyrix 200). We are discussing the AMD people, try to concentrate.
The info is here for you....take a look. You have different systems. You are complaining of a 'bug' that I can not recreate. I AGAIN state that I am not saying the bug does not exist, I am saying I can not recreate it. You are screaming for a patch. Patch what? I can't recreate this alleged bug.
The fact is, only a very small number of you can not play. I am truly sorry for this (me, not Westwood). I think this game rocks and I have been playing about 8 months longer than all of you. But this issue is limited to a very small number of the users. Version 1.004 is in use by thousands of users and they are all happy with it. Many of them have the same set ups as you and they play just fine. The fact that most of the people are playing and such a small number of you are not playing should be an indication to you that this isn't a bug. If it were, then they wouldn't be playing either! The needs of the few do not outweigh the needs of the many.
I am here because I want you to be able to play the game. The problem is, there is no common thread between all of you. This is why there is no magic bullet. Each of you is having your own special problem.
As for 'Red Herring' boy, you are wrong. You should not use ICQ when playing a multiplayer game. The reason is that ICQ and Red Alert 2 use some of the same ports. Guess what happens.
As for complaints about shutting down background tasks, this is the first thing you have people do. The concern isn't that you do not have enough RAM, it is whether or not there is a confilct. All the memory in the world won't matter if there is a conflict. There are enough apps out there available for download or even professionally that cause these problems. There shouldn't be, but there are.
Want to try again? Do this: Format and FDisk your system. Install your OS. Update your OS. Update all of your drivers for all of your devices. Manage your resources. Install the game and update it. Let me know what happened.
Tim-WS
I am VERY disappointed at the flaming....
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-18-2001 10:30 AM
Look, I'm sure if that updating thing IS an issue with RA2 westwood has proally fixed it now. They are most likly going to release it with 1.005. BUT 1.005 is being delayed because they are having problems with the AMD-VIA thing! Shut-up and stop your whining. I'm sure they are trying there BEST to fix the problem. WHINING GETS YOU NO WHERE! When will you kids learn that??
A while ago before RA2 was realsed I heard that there would be a map editor(Somthing I really, really wanted). When I found out there was no none I was really dissapointed. I made a few post about it but I didnt whine and cry! I'm also waiting for the firewall fix but do you see me whining no! Because being in the same industry I UNDERSTAND these things TAKE TIME! Two months is nothing compared to some problems other gaming companys have taken time to fix! SO STOP WHINING!!
[This message has been edited by -FreeLaNce- (edited 04-18-2001).]
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-18-2001 10:39 AM
5 bucks next few post in responce to tim says..
'Whatta you mean you cant recreate the problem!!' or
'There are plenty of people having this problem your just dening it!' or
'Your lieing'
You kids are to predictable
[This message has been edited by -FreeLaNce- (edited 04-18-2001).]
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Angrybeaver911
Member
posted 04-18-2001 10:43 AM
Tim, Ok here's an idea... why don't you go on a little field trip then. Find someone who live's around your area that's having the problem. Go to their house and check their system. Why waste all this money trying to recreate it when you can just go somewhere and watch it in action.
Just an idea
If you're anywhere around me I'll be glad to let you check my pc out
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-18-2001 10:44 AM
ALSO.. There is no way to point this to the VIA chipset either because there has been some crashes on AMD Chipset boards and (I think one in another topic) Intel chipset. Yes they could have a memory issue but they could also have the same issue as the AMD chips.
Lets also keep in mind.. 500 people having this problem is nothing compared to 1 Million(Im sure there are more) people that own the game and that play online(With AMD or Intel chips)
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poppasp1ce
Member
posted 04-18-2001 10:49 AM
Thought I'd post my two cents here. My primary computer (P3-800 Intel 815EEA, 512MB, 40GB, W2K) runs ra2 great, has never crashed once. But I recently set up my older computer in the living room (w/tv-out) so I could play ra2 on the couch. That computer also has an Intel processor (P3-550, 256MB, 27GB, ME) but runs on a non-Intel board (Microstar w/VIA chipset). I _can not_ for the life of me get ra2 to work with that computer. 2 seconds after 'battle control' comes online, BAM, right back to the desktop. My living room computer has a FRESH install of WindowsME and the only program that I installed on it was ra2 (because that's the only reason I set it up). I installed VIA 4-in-1, video, sound, windowsupdates, lan, etc. So I guess what I'm trying to say, although I know it has been said already, is that ra2 and via don't mix. Call me captian obvious, but I just thought I'd share my experience.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-18-2001 10:50 AM
Tim-ws, I am very disappointed in your response. WE AREN'T ALL WRONG, you are. I have formatted my hard drive, downloaded all updates from Microsoft, updated all drivers, flashed BIOS, reinstalled RA2 etc etc and it still crashes to desktop. The game worked perfectly before patch 1004. Back out patch 1004 so WE ALL CAN PLAY AGAIN.
Tim-ws, from the tone of your response it sounds like Westwood is saying "screw you, get lost". Westwood, pull your head out of the sand.
Freelance and transnote, you tell us to keep the faith and this is the response we get. Consumer gets screwed again.
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Angrybeaver911
Member
posted 04-18-2001 10:50 AM
Freelance. Yes that's true but what's the percentages? How many people who have the game actually come on this board and post? Also how many people out of this board have the problem? Not how many people overall because we don't have the correct percentages to find that out.
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-18-2001 10:53 AM
Oh, freelance, sorry, but I know 14 people playing RA2. 9 of them have an AMD (Duron/Athlon) and 7 of the 9 have problems with crashing to the desktop. Perhaps the the other 2 dont play enough to realize it. I am not sure if that is representive but it looks bad.
You have to keep in mind that only a few people on this baord are posting. Some are posting in other boards and most of the people are just playing and crashing.
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-18-2001 11:20 AM
Tim-WS:
"First, my involvement on this thread is to take a look at how the community feels about the alleged AMD crash to desktop issue. I am not here to discuss intel or any other processors (had a few emails about why doesn't the game work on a Cyrix 200). We are discussing the AMD people, try to concentrate."
This topic was started about the bug.. it isn't AMD specific (this is a fact) so why force out Intel users that are experiencing it? It makes no sense.
"The info is here for you....take a look. You have different systems. You are complaining of a 'bug' that I can not recreate. I AGAIN state that I am not saying the bug does not exist, I am saying I can not recreate it. You are screaming for a patch. Patch what? I can't recreate this alleged bug."
You (or someone at Westwood) has said they **CAN** recreate the bug, but only with certain background applications running (ICQ, etc). (This was said in another thread, and I honestly don't remember if it was you that said it, but it was a moderator/Westwood staffer.) If they can re-create it with certain apps running, they should isolate the problem and fix it, since obviously shutting everything down doesn't work for everyone.
"As for 'Red Herring' boy, you are wrong. You should not use ICQ when playing a multiplayer game. The reason is that ICQ and Red Alert 2 use some of the same ports. Guess what happens."
Way to be mature Tim, thanks for proving to me once and for all that Westwood really isn't interested in fixing the REAL PROBLEM; here's why you're wrong--
When you call bind (part of the Winsock API) you get an error (WSAEADDRINUSE) when a local address and port are already in use; RA2 should detect this and do something a bit more meaningful than just CRASH. Besides, I'M NOT PLAYING ON THE INTERNET WHEN IT CRASHES. Why would RA2 be opening ports and listening when I'm only playing Skirmish games? If you're using DirectPlay, the situation may be different, but again, I'm only playing a Skirmish game with no internet connection.
So it is, in the end, another red herring, especially if your reasoning for closing ICQ is because it uses the same local ports as RA2. (I could see this being an issue for network/WOL games, but then the game would crash instantly, not as some random point while playing..) FYI: I've had it crash with and WITHOUT ICQ running.. I've already TRIED closing all apps (as many as I can anyways), it doesn't work.
"I am VERY disappointed at the flaming...."
I'm very disappointed at your attitude. I did my best to refrain from flaming, made it a point to say I wanted to help, but so far you've dodged the important questions put out and only answered the easy ones. When will Westwood patch RA2 so that it will generate an error log during these crashes?
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BushWacky
Member
posted 04-18-2001 11:30 AM
Talk about flaming well HI. I just posted here to make this thread even bigger. I hate the desktop crash. Now im getting Internal Errors. But i get Internal Errors less than i did the desktop crash. I dunno i think ww will never solve this, what a stump their in. I think they should degrade and go back to patch v1.00003 and then make a whole new v1.00004. My thought.
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agntwhite
Member
posted 04-18-2001 11:48 AM
"What is going on here? I take a day off and you all revert to a bunch of flaming trolls with misleading information."
hahaha, flaming trolls. Now THAT'S comedy.
I'm sure everyone appreciates your input, Tim, especially in the middle of all this crap. It's reassuring to know at least someone is trying to stay on top of this.
I personally don't have the crash anymore (luckily) but I feel for those that do. Here's an idea: maybe, in addition to Tim posting, someone from Westwoods Customer Service dept could start posting. This would give those with the problem a little more faith, and prove that WW cares on a technical level as well as personal level.
Maybe that'd reduce the flaming, the rude posts, and the know-it-alls putting up false information.
Just a thought.
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-18-2001 12:12 PM
Tim,
why don't we try a game.....
You say : Try this.
I say : Tried already.
Ok start :
You : turn off all background apps.
Me : of course
You : format, reinstall system & RA2.
Me : new HD,WIN200,WIN98,WIN 98 SE all tried
You : Memory ?
Me : tried with 128,256 MB different brands.
Ok, next one.
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Yuri Wantz Tanya
Member
posted 04-18-2001 12:15 PM
What exactly is this crash you guys are talking about?
I've had numerous crashes - I can only thing of one thing that can be described as a "crash to desktop" - the RA2 internal error.
If this is the one, then maybe my system specs might show it happens on non-AMD systems as well :
Tyan S1854 Trinity 400 Motherboard
400 Celeron
128 MB SDRAM
NVidia Geforce 256
20 GB WD Hard drive. (about 4 GB left)
As for background tasks, this is what I have running :
DISABLED Norton Antivirus 2000
DNS Client
PAUSED task scheduler
Volume Control (the usual speaker icon)
Ofcourse, Windows has a whole bunch of rubbish it runs itself in the background, but those do not show up in the task manager unless u dig deep.
Are we talking about th internal error here?
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juulepuul
Member
posted 04-18-2001 12:19 PM
No, desktop crash is :
Back to desktop , no error at all.
Just RA2 gone , desktop back.
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-18-2001 12:25 PM
Yuri Wantz Tanya:
No, that's not the same one.. Internal Errors show a dialog saying an internal error has occurred-- the "crash-to-desktop" bug doesn't generate an internal error, it doesn't show any dialog saying an error occurred, it just crashes to the desktop. Here's an example of what happens--
1) You're playing a game (we'll use a Skirmish for this example), building structures, moving troops, in general playing the game for any length of time.
2) The screen shows the desktop.
3) If you use a different video mode than the one RA2 uses, the video mode will switch back to whatever you previously had it at. (For example: You use 1024x768 at 32bpp, RA2 uses 1024x768 at 16bpp-- after the desktop is shown the video mode is switched back to 1024x768 at 32bpp.)
No error file is generated, no dialog is shown, no indication that an error has taken place is shown except for the fact that the game is suddenly no longer running. It no longer appears in the Windows 2000 Task Manager as well. (Windows '9x/SE/ME users can hit Ctrl+Alt+Del to see some of the currently running tasks to verify this as well.)
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wayii
Member
posted 04-18-2001 12:28 PM
hello i just thought i would offically bump this topic. i think it needs the attention.
wayii
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Yuri Wantz Tanya
Member
posted 04-18-2001 12:43 PM
Ok. I gathered it might be something like that.
I haven't experienced it, but then I haven't been able to get the game to run on Windows 2000 - it refuses to start and god knows it performs any number of illegal operations when I try to start it on Win 98 - it's usually on the 2nd or third try that the game runs. All I can say is something does need to be fixed. But I'm out of topic.
So I'll leave you guys. Hope something good comes out of all this.
All the best.
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-18-2001 12:56 PM
Well as you can conclude from these "responses" from Westwood. This problem wont be able to be patched seeing they dont know what the hell is goin on... You guys really should look for a new game or go back to Tiberian Sun. We keep respnding to this thread and there is no action being taken. Its becoming just one big joke. So until westwood gets thier heads outta thier asses... Get a new game!
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-18-2001 12:58 PM
Hey, I just decided to like the desktop crash. If I am crashing:
- I can take a Coke and start an new game.
- I think I am playing to much RA2
- The other player has to wait 120 Sec. I can start RA2 new and play in 70 Seconds
-
After the responses from TIM, I know that WW will never solve the problem. The only one who cares a little bit is TIM himself.
Now look, if you are in war in 1945 and you had not much luck and lost a leg, what are you going to do: whining all your Life? Perhaps some years. But then life has to go on.
Thats what I think with this crash. They cant change it anymore. It just happened and WW is not able to change it anymore.
Years will pass and we will forget this problem. There will be a new C&C, some of us will buy some of us will die.
Because of the c2d I am making more other things in my life, going out in a bar or disco, I am reading books again, and I feel much better since then. Its a psycological experiment: Something is not running but we can live without it!
Bye
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-18-2001 01:50 PM
Superpatch:
Heh, that's usually the way I look at it when it happens. ;) Just a chance to start a fresh game. Of course, it bites when it happens and I'm winning (or planning to win, anyways-- eg: stockpiling units and forming groups and [wham!] it dies).
Yer right though, over time this problem will either a) be fixed or b) be forgotten for another game altogether.
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Scalphunter
Member
posted 04-18-2001 02:08 PM
Any of you coneheads try running Dr Watson before you start your game?
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Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-18-2001 02:31 PM
Scalphunter:
AFAIK: Dr. Watson is only useful if Windows catches an exception/error that the application propogates out of it's exception handlers. RA2 doesn't do this, it apperently sees that an exception has occurred and closes the program before letting any external debuggers hook in. Now, it might be different if I used Delphi or CBuilder to attach to RA2 as it's running, then let it run normally and see if anything out of the ordinary happens.. And since Westwood apperently is bent on not recognizing this as a bug, I may just do that. I'll see what I can come up with when I get home. =)
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toxic mule
Member
posted 04-18-2001 02:37 PM
right...its a small problem. Ok i know 5 people who have the game. Not a one had a problem before patch b4 v1.004; after V1.004 2 had a problem(one of those is being me)both have amds. In fact my friend just got a new amd system from gateway(also soundblaster)and, i told him it was a great game(this was is dec). Now we both have a problem.
TIM why dont u respond to the ezreports ive sent. If its not a bug then, look at my report, tell me what i need to correct on my system. U haven't even responded; i thought u were able to fix everyones problem and would give a prize to one that stumped u. Whats the turnaround time on those.
If u have been working on the problem for 3 months and cant even recreate it, then i guess its time for u to give up; that's what its sounds like ur saying. At least we know its over. I've bought every Madden, NBA live, and Triple Play game that has been released since 1995 on the consoles or for my comp. I will not buy EA products again. I cant believe u guys have trashed ur own game.
THERE IS A MAGIC BULLET is called all previous versions. Tim think about this...ok no problems b4 then problems. Do u think everyones ram or hard drive got screwed at the same time. U and freelance(rofl at his posts)make it sound like we are a group of idiot who pour pancake syurp in our towers. I say the common varible was the patch. And my friend with a new comp- RA2 was the 2nd piece of software he placed on it,(after dsl)he now gets kicked to the desktop-he has win ME, i have 98se.
If its not a bug and there is something wrong with my system, plz use my ezreport as a guide to tell me what to fix.
Basically i think it is a bug and an oversight on WW's part. I mean its not hard to imagine-just look at ur software. ~Internet code has lag-b/w 2 people with fast comp and low ping the game will still not move as fast as if ur playing the comp. In games like Q3 and UT, it moves at the same speed on or off line.
~difficulty in getting a good 4 player game going, many people never make it the start when their game usually has no problem
~the ladder often doesnt record and is down(hardware issue maybe)
~often cant get on a sever and get kicked off for no reason(harware too maybe-not sure)
~map hack cheat always returns
These are just some examples of contined problems with the game. The crash bug is just a continuum of poor results and inablitlies of WW's part. I sure u can post some technical reasons to explain away some of the above, but the other games i have played online dont have these problems. See computers are not my job and i dont claim to have as much knowledge as u; thats why i come here for help, 'cause ur the expert. I can deal with all the problems i mentioned before, but the lockups take all the fun out. Maybe u need someone with more knowledge than u to come in and help, that is if u think there is such a person.
[This message has been edited by toxic mule (edited 04-18-2001).]
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Namrac_KG
Member
posted 04-18-2001 03:22 PM
This bug is all about the way the game holds the connection in multiplayer. I am convinced what ever they changed in the latset ver for connection is the problem. So westwood get to work this bug is ****ing me off.
Namrac
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-18-2001 03:25 PM
Namrac_KG:
It's not connection-oriented, I've had the crash occur during Skirmish games with no internet connection active.
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Tim-WS
Administrator
posted 04-18-2001 04:03 PM
Ok gang,
Guess I'll just stop posting for a while. Some of you want to do nothing but flame and I don't have the time to moderate the boards from your tone/language. I'm trying to do something that will let the few of you play your game. None of you have proved anything except that your particular system doesn't work. Never mind all of the other people's games that work, and even better with version 1.004. There is not going to be a rollback. Too many people are happy with the upgrades we did. And by my count there are about 30 of you that can't play. I'll keep trying though...
See ya around...
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-18-2001 04:17 PM
Umm Tim... You tell me what you or westwood are doing about this problem? Please tell me becuase I would like to know...
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-18-2001 04:23 PM
Tim-WS:
Y'know, people don't flame just to make themselves happy, they flame because they see a problem and no response. (In fact, the response they DO see is that there supposedly ISN'T a problem and we're all delusional.)
Since you seem bent on being a jerk about this, I think I'm just going to QUIT playing RA2 and return my copy to Babbages-- since they won't take it back (open box) I'll drop it on the counter and do a charge-back with my bank stating the product is defective and that the box info was "misleading" (it says it works on a Pentium 233 or better, it doesn't).
I'll buy it again when I see Westwood grows up, quits trying to shove problems under the rug, and pretend they're minimal when they're obviously NOT.
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poppasp1ce
Member
posted 04-18-2001 04:23 PM
lol, Tim is such a baby.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-18-2001 04:23 PM
Tim-ws, I've seen more than 30 users post of this problem. How many users have this problem that don't even come to these forums.
I guess we'll just "get lost" like you want.
Westwood rocks!
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MU357
Member
posted 04-18-2001 04:44 PM
Tim, we are all just getting a little frustrated. I don't know all about computers, but I do know that a lot of us have been having a lot of problems with this desktop crash since 1.004. I know that I have had no problems at all until I downloaded the 1.004 patch and have had nothing but crashes since. And these occur in multiplayer, skirmish, and the missions.
BTW where does one get EZ report?
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-18-2001 04:47 PM
MU357:
Look on your RA2 CD (either one), there's an application (.exe) in the root directory that creates these EZ reports. I forget the filename, but there's only a few .exe files in the main directory, so it should be easy to find. =)
FYI: If you're running Windows NT/2000, the app won't work completely (it won't detect all of your hardware and configuration settings). But if you run Windows 9x/SE/ME you should be fine.
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MU357
Member
posted 04-18-2001 04:53 PM
Cool. I'll save this spot...there!
[This message has been edited by MU357 (edited 04-18-2001).]
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Core36
Member
posted 04-18-2001 04:59 PM
It's obvious there's a problem with patch 1004, but Westwood's ego won't allow them to backout patch 1004.
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-18-2001).]
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-18-2001 05:11 PM
Core36:
I don't know much about Tim-- but I really doubt it's his decision to "back out" the 1.004 patch. Besides, backing it out is only a temporary fix, I'd like it if the problem was found and a new patch was released.. or if a new patch that made it generate errors while quitting under all circumstances was released so we could send in error logs of the crash. As it is, no error log means (apperently) nobody at Westwood believes us.
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Dragon97
Member
posted 04-18-2001 05:39 PM
Tim you say that we dont do nothing but say are particular computer dosent work. I have tried everything WW has said yet its still crashes. I have turned everything off, power management is off, I have everything updated but yet I still crash. What are we suppose to do to fix this problem are self because I literally have no knowledge in the computer field except the stuff you just said to use. Most of us has said we did what you all have said to do so what else can we try to get RA2 working proberly again?
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eluca
Member
posted 04-18-2001 05:46 PM
finally guys with the same problem. My AMD 900 crashes before and after the last patch. I reboot the cp before playing and make sure I stop the appl on the background. Still crashing.....So WS?
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therude00
Member
posted 04-18-2001 05:51 PM
My comp was crashing regularly, but then it stopped. wierd
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flaktropperreporting
Member
posted 04-18-2001 06:20 PM
TIM---
theres more than a few people with this problem!!!!
i havent posted because too many others are
posting already.
ive sent in my ez report and no response!!
im convinced it is a sound generated crash
thats sends to desktop.i dont get it but a comp in my houshold gets it on lan games and
on skirmish.
i dont play online due to this,cheats,and recon errors.
also ----maybe a memory prob due too many mod maps.i have none(dont care for them),and my brother has a bunch.....just a thought.
dont let this end like this.all i
do is watch the message board and hope for a cure.
lotsa luck---see ya on rakis
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Core36
Member
posted 04-18-2001 06:22 PM
Fyi... Intel sales down 82%, AMD up 9%
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toxic mule
Member
posted 04-18-2001 06:24 PM
riiigggghhhhtttttt
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spyclip
Member
posted 04-18-2001 06:49 PM
Tim, I just have one little question i hope you can look into. Go to the "testing labs" you claim to have. Look at all those "50 AMD test machines" you claim to have...
Are they all the same machine? I bet you they are!
Thats why you havent encountered the problem. Also, did you talk to Halcyon? Didnto you say a while back it happened to him? Good luck, and hurry for us!
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WaveCable
Member
posted 04-18-2001 06:56 PM
Tim-
"The needs of the few do not outweigh the needs of the many."
Did you get this line from an old star trek movie? I think Spock said it to Kirk.
Anyway, nice way to tell people that ver4 patch broke their $50.00 game, and they might as well just go away.
I don’t crash to the desktop, but my friend does. Maybe the next game that I buy from you guys will have a problem like the c2d and I will be the one unable to play.
I think you underestimate how many people have this bug.
I think I'll just sit back and see how this post develops before I buy another EA game.
Total cash spent on EA games to date: $180.00
Future cash spent on EA games:?????
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WaveCable
Member
posted 04-18-2001 06:59 PM
Tim-
"The needs of the few do not outweigh the needs of the many."
Did you get this line from an old star trek movie? I think Spock said it to Kirk.
Anyway, nice way to tell people that ver4 patch broke their $50.00 game, and they might as well just go away.
I don’t crash to the desktop, but my friend does. Maybe the next game that I buy from you guys will have a problem like the c2d and I will be the one unable to play.
I think you underestimate how many people have this bug.
I think I'll just sit back and see how this post develops before I buy another EA game.
Total cash spent on EA games to date: $180.00
Future cash spent on EA games:?????
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WaveCable
Member
posted 04-18-2001 07:01 PM
oh! so that's how double posts happen...
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Angrybeaver911
Member
posted 04-18-2001 07:12 PM
Wow talk about giving up easy... Looks to me like an excuse to not being able to fix the problem. And you call that flaming???? Jeez I don't know where you are from but that's nothing. Those people have every right to be mad and can let you know by posting on this board. Don't give me that crap about people being too "rude" to you and "flaming" you. O MY GOD!! I think we made him cry... boo f-ing hoo!
At least I know that you must not be trying to hard to fix this problem because you're letting up so easy.
How bout gettin some big guys on here. At least so we can get some info from some "intelligent" folks
DESKTOP CRASH!!!!!!
This will never end.
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-18-2001 07:15 PM
The Desktop IS an exception error (I think):
IF you RUN RA2 in a WINDOW... you may get this error:
"This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. Something caused a something in GAME.EXE"
Sorry for the something somethings but if you run RA2 in a WINDOW the monitor will freeze but the computer will still work. This is my guess as to what that dialog says.
For some reason if RA2 is run in full screen mode than you do not get this error message. How about everyone run their RA2 in a window?
[This message has been edited by YSLMuffins (edited 04-18-2001).]
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Core36
Member
posted 04-18-2001 08:13 PM
Tim-ws says "The problem is, there is no common thread between all of you. This is why there is no magic bullet. Each of you is having your own special problem"
There is one main problem here that we all are having, since patch 1004 the "game crashes to desktop" in the middle of a game, plain and simple.
Tim defies logic. Its hard to believe what we read from him, like he doesn't read what we type.
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-18-2001 08:22 PM
may as well throw the game in the bin now
icant play 1 game without getting kicked to desktop
and we aint the only ones there must be 1000s
i am going to phone up ea and complain about this ****
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kgb1982
Member
posted 04-18-2001 08:31 PM
My next system will be an AMD based system (Intel's become complacent), and if WW doesn't resolve this, I doubt I'll buy another one of their products.
Tim sounds a little like Homer...
"If I don't see it, it's not illegal!"
Heh...
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-18-2001 08:54 PM
You know.. I dont blame tim for leaving this topic. There is nothing but flames and hate towards him and ALL he is trying to do is fix your problem. Congrats kids you just scared off your last chance on getting this problem fixed! Hope your happy.. maybe you should ask Locke_Cole to fix it with hit "15 years" computer experiance!
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-18-2001 09:03 PM
-FreeLaNce-:
You're an idiot. Nobody's flaming ANYONE, but you and Tim-WS believe that anything that doesn't AGREE with you is a FLAME. Nice try, but I've dealt with people long enough in newsgroups and message boards to know when someone is trying to make me look bad-- it doesn't work. Tim-WS just made himself look childish, and you come off as an ass-kisser.
As for me fixing it, how would I? I don't have the code to RA2, all I could possibly do is disassemble it and try to trace the error down to a handful of instructions; that's IF I want to run it under a debugger. Then that solves nothing, because I'd need someone at Westwood to look it over in their code..
You and Tim need to go take mutual seminars on growing up and learning how to deal with people-- it's not my fault your mother didn't raise you properly, and the world shouldn't have to deal with people like you that run and hide when criticized.
WESTWOOD, PLEASE GROW UP AND REALIZE THIS IS A LEGITIMATE PROBLEM. WE DIDN'T PAY $50+ FOR THIS BUGGY GAME, AND IT'S **WORTH** YOUR TIME TO GET SOMEONE WHO'S NOT ASS-BACKWARDS TO LOOK AT IT.
God you're a dip****.
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Core36
Member
posted 04-18-2001 09:17 PM
I just got off the phone with my buddy, I was explaining Westwoods position on the desktop crash and he told me his computer crashes to desktop once in a while(he has intel p3 800)...he says it doesn't crash to desktop offen enough to make a big deal out of it.
So it does happen to probably alot of other users, who just live with it.
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-18-2001).]
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Superpatch
Member
posted 04-19-2001 12:28 AM
hey Tim, I have a great idea:
because you (or WW) are not able to recognize the c2d on your computers I give you my system. But then I get one of those where the crash not accures. So both of us are lucky: You can see the crash (perhaps every second game) and I have no chrashes anymore.
I have an AMD Athlon 900 MHZ, 128 MB, 30 GB HD. Give me something equal.
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wildwezl
Member
posted 04-19-2001 12:57 AM
post your name in my topic TIM_WS we are legion if u crash. Tim says there are only 30 of us. Prove him wrong.
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wildwezl
Member
posted 04-19-2001 12:58 AM
post your name in my topic TIM_WS we are legion if u crash. Tim says there are only 30 of us. Prove him wrong.
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Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
juulepuul
Member
posted 04-19-2001 01:14 AM
In fact,
everybody I know with an AMD with > 700 Mhz crashes to desktop.
If only 30 people on this BB would have this problem. (And there are many more on just this BB).
Just extrapolate this to the whole C&C community.
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teslaaaa
Member
posted 04-19-2001 06:47 AM
i sent you my system info file from the ez thing on the cd, but heres what wierd, its says i got directx 7.0a, so i upgraded to 8.0a and now it says i got directx 7.0
also after i sent you that file i also sent the except file that i found, and then i upgraded my drivers for video and sound and the directx8.0a, then i played and had the same problems except now it crashes more often.
i dont know what to do now, so if could respond with some advice tim i would appriciate it.
if you dont belive me go look up xcainx on the leader board, i already am 5-2 with 2 losses from the bug and thats missing 1 more loss from the bug, i think the other guy musta left too and the game didnt count.
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shadow461
Member
posted 04-19-2001 07:10 AM
Some you people...mainly MODERATORS have reached what I call a breaking point.
Delphi, Tim, and to an extent Halcyon, have turned from being helpful (at least a little bit) to totally bloeing everyone off.
Don't you people know THE FIRST THING about customer service?
Oh, and only 30 people have this problem...the other night I played a game with wldangl74 and budman101 when budman and I BOTH got kicked SIMULTANEOUSLY. Darn, speak of the devil, budman just walked in the room!
They don't post here that often...budman doesn't post at all I don't think.
Those are the only three people I know with this game AND THEY ALL CRASH.
Anyhow, I am dissapointed with the half baked response that all four of the mods have posted about this crash.
Mobius posted the "official" response...close all apps then try again... despite the fact he was told that this HAD ALREADY BEEN DONE.
Delphi had teamed up with him and then just quit discussing the problem here at all. Then in the chat logs Delphi had to get cocky about having info on the x pack and future patches. Lose the attitude when in public, Delphi, and get back to the killer tech support solutions you had here for other problems.
Halcyon...my main problem with you is in the Tournaments and Contests board where at first you were adamant about getting cheaters off the ladder when the new tournament rules came out. Now I can surf dozens of posts and find all sorts of complaints about people not getting punished with NO response from you. Maybe you took more on than you can handle when you got into that board...many GOOD PEOPLE take on more work than they can handle while not realizing they have made outstanding contributions to their emplyer already. That RUINS GOOD PEOPLE.
Tim...oh my. You seem to not know that THE WORST THINGs you can do here.
You are dealing with customers.
You have told us what our problems is, DESPITE the fact that Core DID NOT post about AMD in the subject, and you have BEEN TOLD many times that this IS NOT an AMD thread. You just will not listen to us.
YOU DO NOT CALL YOUR CUSTOMERS NAMES. You are the authority figure here, therefore you must set the example. IF YOU FLAME US, SOME WILL GET THE IDEA THAT FLAMING IS COOL HERE.
YOU ALSO DO NOT TURN YOUR BACK ON A CUSTOMER. I learned this the hard way at CompUSA. When budman bought a new sound card, there was a mismarked price on the SB Live! platinum. I clearly saw the correct price, but another customer saw the wrong price and asked to speak to a manager. I was simply there with budman helping him to decide what card to get.
A manager appeared and pointed out the correct price, but the other customer didn't agree...the mismarked price was in plain view.
An argument ensued and the manager walked away from his customers...JUST LIKE YOU ARE.
Guess what? When the customer decided he would call the regional office, that manager got really nice. It cost him $100 in profit. Not only did he discount that person's SB, he ALSO had to give budman that same discount.
You be very careful, Tim, because you may wind up like that manager did where your mistakes backfire not once, but twice.
In fact, that's a good idea. How bout the folks on this thread having this problem simply contact the highest ranked person we can find at EA? Let's place YOUR JOB on the line.
Bottom line...you disgust me, Tim, calling us names (trolls) and just walking away from us.
I don't give a crap about my $50...I am being told my game is fine and it is not. It's just as easy to toss the game into a CD case and play something else...and that does NO GOOD for me buying the expansion pack. Why spend more money on games I don't play?
I have never bought an EA product save for the Sims, FF8, and RA2. SQUARESOFT gives a darn about it's customers, so they aren't a problem with me. I'll buy anything with their name on it. Any other EA games will need stellar ratings before I touch it, and anything Westwood will stay on the shelf.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again...I am not buying Emperor, I am not buying any more C and C...not renegade, not Tiberian whatever-is-next...NOTHING. I was gonna buy NOX, but thanks to this, I changed my mind.
Freelance...you are simply proving to a lot of people how naive you are. I suggest you shut your nouth before you lose the last little bit of respect you have.
Oh, I was just told by someone who has never seen RA2 that I should say "It sucks *** and I will never play it again."
RA2 sucks *** and I will never play it again.
There.
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wtlee
Member
posted 04-19-2001 08:17 AM
I am minority according to WW. Mine is abit KT7-Raid w/Duron 600 and crash to desktop almost every game. Even a fresh-install Windows with all latest release (not beta) drivers doesn't help.
Please tell WW how many "minority" are there.
A news from here http://www.amdmb.com/files.php#kt7
talk about the VIA chipset problem on large data transfer and there is some beta BIOS for correction. Those who willing to try please let me know if it is related to the desktop crash.
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Lord_BecKhaM
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:06 AM
Hello to all, I have an Athlon 700 Gigabyte GA-7VM (KX-133) 256MB RAM "RA2 = Crash to desktop" all time!! sorry by my english
only speak spanish
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Mobius
Moderator
posted 04-19-2001 09:31 AM
shadow461 I can see you feel very strongly about this. You did say about moderators, as I am one I feel I should comment. I don't work for technical support, be it a bit of a disclaimer but there is no way I can comment on this. I did show Tim Hempel the topic as he does work in tech support. He wants this solved more than the next man.
Most people with this problem who have phoned up or emailed ra2help with exact system details have had it fixed though I must add. Thank you
- Mobius
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toxic mule
Member
posted 04-19-2001 10:20 AM
thats easy to say mobius, but he has yet to repsond to my ezreports-humm...
U r losing business over this, i throw much money into games every year(too much actually). But since only 30 people have the problem, i guess its not that big of a loss.
I buy at least $200 worth of EA products every year(lets see this year-Need for Speed Porche,Superbike, RA2, NBA live,& Madden). The deep furustration over this whole "bug" thing has caused me to reevaluate buying any more EA games 'cause of WW. It will be hard to live without madden, but thank goodness sega is producing great sport games again. It would have been different if the game had a bug out of the box, i could have returned to eb for a refund. Yet it worked fine until V1.004. To add insult to injury, the mods seem out of touch. 30 people...come on statements like this add to the perception that WW doesnt care or just isn't able to grasp whats going on. The patch was released in Jan, and just recently tech support appeared on this board.
Its easy to say many problems have been fixed, but i know of 2 people who have amds personally(including me) and ours havent.
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NachoMan
Member
posted 04-19-2001 10:21 AM
Hey, I also had (or maybe still have) the "crash to desktop BUG" It would typically crash every 5-6 games, and usually at critical times too, such as when I'm just about to win. When I'm losing the game was usually fine, lol!
Games lasting over an hour and a half typically crashed to the desktop too.
I haven't played RA2 for ages because quite simply, I cant!
I've recently reformatted, so maybe RA2 might decide to behave itself now
One little tip for people. If you have the AMD driver pack, containing the AGP miniport driver, try removing it. My PC was crashing all the time with that **** thing on, as soon as I removed the driver everything works fine
Just a shame it took me a new video card, new RAM, umpteen sets of drivers, and a re-format to fix it
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NachoMan
Member
posted 04-19-2001 10:25 AM
Hey, I also had (or maybe still have) the "crash to desktop BUG" It would typically crash every 5-6 games, and usually at critical times too, such as when I'm just about to win. When I'm losing the game was usually fine, lol!
Games lasting over an hour and a half typically crashed to the desktop too.
I haven't played RA2 for ages because quite simply, I cant!
I've recently reformatted, so maybe RA2 might decide to behave itself now
One little tip for people. If you have the AMD driver pack, containing the AGP miniport driver, try removing it. My PC was crashing all the time with that **** thing on, as soon as I removed the driver everything works fine
Just a shame it took me a new video card, new RAM, umpteen sets of drivers, and a re-format to fix it
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 10:26 AM
Mobius:
So, if tech support recognizes the problem, why not have the developers fix it instead of cobbling peoples PC's?
I guess I just don't recognize the sense in telling everyone to only run the "right" applications, when it's clear that whatever causes RA2 to go nuts and crash can be fixed by Westwood (clearly every OTHER company manages to get by without the same problems Westwood has had).
What gives?
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Namrac_KG
Member
posted 04-19-2001 10:43 AM
I forgot to mention I have a Althlon 800 and I chrash all the time to my favorite screen THE DESKTOP. I also want it clear that I have written 5 times and always get the same canned Ctrl Alt Del answer. Come on it's a bug just admit it and fix it PLEASE.
Namrac
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transnote
Member
posted 04-19-2001 10:49 AM
JUST FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE (AND I'M NOT SAYING THIS WILL FIX THE PROBLEM CAN SOMEONE PLEASE..................
Try delete all sound drivers from device manager, shutting down, physically remove the sound card and then reboot, and attempt to have the system crash to desktop.
I know it would suck playing without sound, but lets please try it someone who is having the issue?
regards.
TransNote
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Koen [TibEd]
Member
posted 04-19-2001 11:06 AM
Well, Tim's is right on one thing - it's a big flamewar in this thread.
Still, I believe the desktop crash bug exists - because between RA2 1.003 and 1.004 I changed none of my settings (I only have Win98 on my PC for RA2, I don't use it for anything else, I have NT for that).
I'm going to try and turn my PC inside out with new drivers and stuff, but I know only too well it's not going to help.
Oh well. If I stop playing RA2, I'm not buying Yuri's Revenge - and don't expect that TibEd will support it if I don't have it.
BTW, I bought Nox, and it's quite cool, very stable (haven't crashed even once yet). Then again, I haven't played it online yet.
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Alslayer
Member
posted 04-19-2001 11:33 AM
Tim -
I sent you the ez report, hope you like it. Please get back to me on it.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 12:12 PM
"WESTWOOD, PLEASE GROW UP AND REALIZE THIS IS A LEGITIMATE PROBLEM. WE DIDN'T PAY $50+ FOR THIS BUGGY GAME, AND IT'S **WORTH** YOUR TIME TO GET SOMEONE WHO'S NOT ASS-BACKWARDS TO LOOK AT IT.
God you're a dip****."
Yea real mature locke.. I hardly belive your a day over 15!
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 12:19 PM
Koen [TibEd]:
I've looked everywhere for this "flamewar" you and Tim have referred to, and I'm not seeing it.. what I am seeing is a lot of people disagreeing with Tim on his views of the problem. Clearly disagreeing with anyone is automatically a "flame" to you folks though.
Let's go over it again--
Tim suggests that we all pretend we're running DOS again, and shut everything down. Nevermind that this doesn't work for everyone, we should do it anyways, and if it does work, well then that was our fault all along for thinking we bought a MULTI-TASKING operating system. Tim further states that it's not a bug, he can't re-create it (even though elsewhere (not in this thread) I've seen moderators/Westwood staffers state they CAN re-create the bug, but only while running certain apps or "not shutting everything down like you're supposed to"), and so it basically isn't being looked at even though it affects a good portion of message board posters.
Can you see where the frustration stems from? Or is what I said above also a flame in your mind? Bleh.
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 12:22 PM
-FreeLaNce-:
I'm 25 actually, and if I'm doing anything immature, it's only stooping to yours and Tim's level.
Of course, you ignored the rest of my post, proving my point for me.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 12:36 PM
I didnt get to read your entire post.. some of us have work to do
ALSO Westwood NEVER denied it being a bug! There is honestly no way for them to determine it as a bug (that doesnt mean they wont do anything). Only a very SMALL % of people have this problem!! Yes there was changes between 1.003 and 1.004, if it worked on 1.003 but doesnt work on 1.004 that DOES NOT MEAN ITS A BUG! If everyone that had this game crashed to the desktop then there would be no way to prove it to not be a bug. But only some people do crash to the desktop therefor its more of an incompatibility. IN Other words your system is incompatible with 1.004.
LIKE I SAID BEFORE.. I'm Sure westwood is trying their best and will have it fixed soon!! So far they have done nothing but help you people. Right now if they wanted to the could stop working on this issue and just leave it at 'Some AMD Systems are incomptiable with RA2' and forget about you. Westwood is being very helpfull considering no more the 700 people out of 1 million world wide are only having this problem.
Also Locke you continue to flame me henice you are either A)a Hipicratie or B) Childish 12 year old.
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ShockOps
Member
posted 04-19-2001 12:51 PM
Ive seen alot of flaming on Tim-WS by people that are upset with their problem. Flaming is not the way to get some one to help you fix your problem! You guys need (The users) work together to fix each others problem, not just count on one person to fix every ones problem at once.. I had the problem and decided to test fixes until I got it fixed, know what? Ive played 20 games in a row and havent had in crash yet! The proves that it is a computer hard ware or background problem on each persons computer!
If it was a bug, I would have never been able to fix it and every one in the WOL community (I think there are about 60,000 tourney players now) would have been affected by the by it if it was a bug.. Ive only seen about 50 (give or take a few) that have had the problem, thats all ive seen on WOL and the board together!
My problem on my computer turned out to be my sound card drivers and norton crash guard, if you change that alround it "MAY" work for some people. Also you can try and re-installing DirectX. Ive also have heard people have fixed their problem after formating their computer and re-installing windows and updating their drivers..
Now I know some of you are going to yell at me saying "we have already tried that!!!" but im just trying to get some tips out that I know have worked. And no body wants to help people that flame him or her!
Shockops
[This message has been edited by ShockOps (edited 04-19-2001).]
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transnote
Member
posted 04-19-2001 12:59 PM
Again....could someone experiencing this problem please remove all sound drivers from device manager and add/remove programs, shutdown the machine, and physically remove the soundcard and then try to recreate the
problem without a soundcard installed?
Please?
And then let us know, either way if it happens????????????????
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 01:01 PM
Also.. If you guys wanna talk about bad companys lets talk about the little liers that make your CPU.
First of when the athlon was first realsed AMD pushed it as a 233Mhz FSB, which was extremley bougus. They quickley changed the specs to a 200Mhz FSB, which is still technically imposible because the highest memory speed you could get (at the time the athlon came out) was 133Mhz therefor making the AMD Athlon the same, if not worse then intel P3 chips.
Oh but wait theres more!
Ever heard of AMDs first "Gaming Freindly" K6-2?? Well gaming friendly my a$$!! I had one it was a complete waste of money, half the games(All of them pretty much new) I had would run extremly slow on the K6-2 and some wouldnt run at all!
AMD has a big history of lieing so dont start saying WW is BS.
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 01:05 PM
-FreeLaNce-:
Tim-WS said it wasn't a bug, or rather, he couldn't classify it as one. I think that's basically telling us "it's not a bug." unless you read into that a little differently than I do..
As for their help, no, they're not being helpful-- we're being told to use our computers the way THEY want us to, not the way we want to and the way every other software manufacturer has us use it (by shutting everything down). Why is it NO OTHER GAME has this problem but RA2? I think that pretty well places the problem with RA2, not with my system configuration (which is perfect anyways).
And if you think the percentage of users having this problem is really 700 out of 1,000,000, you're living in a dream land-- I really doubt those 1 million people are still playing, and I REALLY doubt only 700 out of them are having this problem. During the first few weeks 1.004 was released this board was filled with posts complaining about this bug.. those folks gave up because (ding ding!) Westwood isn't going to fix it!
And I'm no hypocrite, I'm disagreeing with what Tim-WS and others have said; that's not a flame, that's an opinion. When you resort to calling responses "flames" to get support for your position, you're no better than Tim is by quitting.
Finally-- I've offered to help, but so far I've received no responses of support from Westwood, and I can't submit an "EZ Report" because their system info app doesn't work with NT/2000. I have, however, started to play RA2 under Delphi 5's debugger every time I play in hopes of catching any exceptions that may be thrown that might lead up to the crash happening. If that happens, I'll try to post the address of the exception and maybe THEN Tim-WS will classify it as a "bug"...
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Core36
Member
posted 04-19-2001 01:39 PM
Like Westwood says "it may be a bug".
But my feeling is unless Westwood gets enough complaints they aren't going to spend the time trying to fix this problem. Simple as that. They have other games to create. As Westwood sees it a couple hundred complaints verses 3 million copies sold does not warrant the time and resourses to investigate this throughly.
[This message has been edited by Core36 (edited 04-19-2001).]
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-19-2001 01:41 PM
Freelance...Shut your **** mouth you stupid fool! Your very annoying and all your posts are completely pointless.. If your game works...Go the hell away and play it... Ours dont therefore we are at this forum. Your game works. Go play it and leave us alone!
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-19-2001 01:44 PM
I seriously say all of us start calling supervisors!!!
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teslaaaa
Member
posted 04-19-2001 01:54 PM
hey dumbazz freelance
remember when you said the box says Intel pII or equivalent. and you said amd isn’t.
well if you use the ez program on the red alert2 cd it tells you whats on your computer so you can send it to ww. well if you go to the check list on it it says pII or equivalent. and guess what? my amd has a check, meaning that it passed the pII or equivalent test. so your wrong, stupid
AMD's are not defective, i dont know what specs you look at but most that i have seen show amd as faster or very close to Intel. and cheaper. Its obvius your biased to Intel. but if your not trying to fix this bug or figure out whats causeing it, well then just get lost.
This tred is to figure out the problem and its not AMD chips. 1.01,1.02,1.03 worked fine. if theres a instruction code in 1.04 which crashes just amd's, then rather then blame amd, lets change that code.
the fact is thers faults and defects of every kind of chip including intel, its the job of the software designers to find a way around them.
TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED TED
I have sent my easy report and the except file in, also i have updated everything on my computer, but every time i update directx to 8.0a it only shows up as 7.0 in the ez report. I am awaiting your response for further instructions.
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maximushq
Member
posted 04-19-2001 01:59 PM
I have the desktop crash on my PIII 750 with 384mb ram and my PII 350 with 192mb ram. I get the crash to desktop with no warning just goes directly to the desktop as well as internal errors. Also my friend has experienced the crash on his AMD 750 duron with 128mb ram and another friend with a Celeron 400 has crashes. That's four totally different computers and they all experience desktop crashes or other errors. We are all members on westwood online and it is really annoying when it happens. I hope Westwood realizes that there are more people getting crashes than are posting here about it. Anyway I think it would be a mistake for WW to just sweep this under the carpet and assume that it is only happening to a very small percentage of people.
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teslaaaa
Member
posted 04-19-2001 02:03 PM
you know thats amazing maximushq. you mean 5 people have the crash that you know of and i personally know 5 poeple having the crash so together we know 10 of the suposed 30 people in the hole world that are having this crash. thats dang amazing dont ya think?
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PureNuke
Member
posted 04-19-2001 02:05 PM
I have 2 PCS, PIII 500MHZ 128 SDRAM 32MB NVIDIA TNT2 Graphics with over 10GB free hard drive space and 1000MHZ AMD ATHLON 256 SDRAM 32MB NVIDIA TNT2 Graphics with over 30GB free hard drive space.
I have both computers installed with RA2 and the problem with "crash to desktop" happens weekly evn though i follow the instructions the MODS have said before.
I have a well maintained PC and feel WW are not taking the WOL comunity seriously enough. I am not saying that they are not trying but there must be a simple solution to the problem which could be addressed in the 1.005 patch.
I know many friends who have this problem including some friends who are hardware and software engineers for PCs who have very well maintained PC's compared to the average person.
Other than that i would like to congratulate WW for the game and the map packs.
PURENUKE
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teslaaaa
Member
posted 04-19-2001 02:14 PM
so PureNuke are you saying you know about 5 more people with this bug?
wow up to 15 people in just 3 posts
if you take into consideration that my 4 friends and purenukes 4 friends dont ever post about this bug, that means only about 1 in 5 people ever reply to this problem. so take 5 times however many responses you get and thats truly how many people this bug is affecting. probly even more then that if you consider how many people quit playing totaly.
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ShockOps
Member
posted 04-19-2001 02:29 PM
Now I have to agree with Tim-WS and the other mods, this topic has just turned in to one BIG flame fest. If we try to help you brush it off and start flaming again! I believe that SOME of you will never be happy no matter what! If its fixed you will find some thing else to flame about. We are trying to help you fix your problem but alot of you continue to flame and make the situation even wrose. If you want to keep flaming us and not have our help in fixing your problem, then I believe you (The flamers) are your own problem....
- ShockOps
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transnote
Member
posted 04-19-2001 02:36 PM
Again, could someone please take the time to remove their sound drivers, shutdown, remove their soundcard and try to recreate the crash to desktop issue with no sound?
It's not a hard request.
It may be beneficial.
If it's not, then I'll start a thread to flame myself.
please?
Someone?
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Core36
Member
posted 04-19-2001 02:40 PM
ShockOps, I don't see MOD under your name. Also, if you and the mods want to focus on a couple flames and use that argument to ignore us, fine. BUT, if you look real closely, you will see ALOT of good, smart users with the EXACT same problem since patch 1004. And there will be more and more users coming to this board once they find it.
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robbydog9
Member
posted 04-19-2001 02:51 PM
ra2 cannot be played with no sound card it wont let you i am another crash to desktopeee
every game.cannot finish one game
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ShockOps
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:00 PM
Core36:
No im not a mod, but I do work for Delphi and I am on the same valunteer team as Mobius & Zeus-WS.
Thank you
- ShockOps
[This message has been edited by ShockOps (edited 04-19-2001).]
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Author
Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
toxic mule
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:05 PM
shockops, i dont think anyone here cares what u have say. Are u not the one that many players, on this board, complain about being a poor sport and saying u will get people banned when u lose. Ur a joke. U and ur buddies can say all u want about help, i tend to look at the results. There were none b4 we flammed and so there will be none after...whats changed.
There is no use here, other actions are needed by us the trolls of the world. Its time to write letters to EA. let them know how much money i've poured into their company and how WW and people like u and Tim have lost potential business for the mother company.
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ShockOps
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:14 PM
"shockops, i dont think anyone here cares what u have say. Are u not the one that many players, on this board, complain about being a poor sport and saying u will get people banned when u lose. Ur a joke."
That is just the flames we are talking about.. And as for that persons clam that I banned his serial number that is not true as I cannot ban serial numbers.... And quote I "many players" only 2 and they are just people that have it out for you, you get that alot when you monitor the channels EVERY night...
"i dont think anyone here cares what u have say." I believe I am very respected in the WOL community....
"Ur a joke." Cheap insults dont work on me...
- ShockOps
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:18 PM
ShockOps:
Differing opinions != Flames
Please stop calling it a flame when someone doesn't agree with you or someone elses ideas. Flames are when someone says something that's not true, and so far everyone's said atleast SOMETHING that's true..
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ShockOps
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:23 PM
"shockops, i dont think anyone here cares what u have say. Are u not the one that many players, on this board, complain about being a poor sport and saying u will get people banned when u lose. Ur a joke."
That is false and untrue, so its a flame.
Thanks
- ShockOps
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TeagueLRC
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:24 PM
I reinstalled Starcraft last night. What a joy it was to play a multiplayer RTS game all the way through without having to constantly worry about it crashing to the desktop.
It seems like this thread has run aground. Too bad, because it seemed like we had potential to go somewhere. Perhaps, that's what happens when Customer Support can hide behind the anonymity of the written word.
I have uninstalled RA2 and will wait with hope until the day this situation is fixed. It's just not worth stressing over. I'll get my RTS fix from Blizzard, thanks.
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:27 PM
ShockOps:
Hi. One post isn't a flamewar. Thanks, please drive thru.
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ShockOps
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:30 PM
"flamewar" I never said it was a "flamewar" I said it was a flame post, but YOU sure are trying to start a "flamewar".
Thanks
- ShockOps
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toxic mule
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:30 PM
its not a flame(i was gentle-ur too sensitive)...I know u dont have the power to ban alone, and its not the first time people have complained about u. ROFL...maybe those are just some people who unjustly accused u-i'll give u that, i can see ur point.
Shock u just flame the fire. Like I said lets look at the results. I guess u expect people to never get upset, esp after almost 3 months. When people are upset they dont need a lecture, they need someone to relate and understand. We have lost faith...
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ShockOps
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:34 PM
A few weeks ago I made a post with tips about ways to fix the problem.. I got flamed for it because people said "We already did that!!!" so then I stoped giving tips out. I'll be glad to give out what info I know about this to try and help some one..
Thanks
- ShockOps
[This message has been edited by ShockOps (edited 04-19-2001).]
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teslaaaa
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:42 PM
its a flame when you mods posted that theres only about 30 people who are having this problem with the bug, thats a straiit up flame to us gamers. i know for a fact its much,much more than 30 people who are affected.
i can see it now, sombody there at ww is telling there boss that its only affecting 30 people, that way they can put this thing off.its just an excuse that ww is using.
no offense to any mods, but when you tell us that its not a bug or its just somthing simple like having things open in the background, then you are flaming me and many others who have tried this already and nothing has changed.
i still havnt heard a word from tim latly saying what i should be trying to do to get my ra2 to work. can i get a response?????
btw i am not flaming when i state the facts, like i have done in this post as well as every other post of mine.
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sgtmay
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:47 PM
Tim-Ws.(please read this post thouroughly)
I am going to post this just to bring this to your attention.....
Here's what you said.
Tim-WS
Administrator posted 04-16-2001 06:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(exerpt)
AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, DUE TO THE FACT THAT I STILL HAVE NOT VERIFIED THIS, THIS IS NOT BEING CLASSIFIED AS A BUG.
This doesn't mean I'm not working on it. But it doesn't sound like a duck, it doesn't walk like a duck, it doesn't look like a duck - so it isn't a duck!
I am sorry guys, but I am still not seeing a defined bug anywhere. Each of you are providing different information and in many cases, different types of errors.
Still working on it...
Tim-WS
___________________________________________
Now that i have this to start with....
With the 1.004 patch this game crashes to desktop offline too(have talked to manny people who have this problem too)
Let me tell you about a little experiment i did.
I had no problems with this game when i first bought it....played a few games online(back in december 2000)...no crashes.
Didnt play online again till Feb.2001....had to update to the 1.004 patch....got online...played a few games...then***poof*** There's my desktop.
At first i thought it was just a problem with my computer.....updated....reinstalled the os.....updated everything on my pc except the bios.....un installed RA2...re-installed RA2(this was before i even knew what a mod or an edited map was)
I looked at every aspect of this problem and finaly came to one conclusion....It's in the program itself....or the update.
So....I then began to scrutinize the program itself.
I un installed again and re-installed RA2...copyed the entire RA2 folder to another folder....Then proceeded to run the game and get on the internet......Watched the update window verry closely while it updated the files and wrote down the ones i could see it updating...and had to sort through the ones i couldnt see(13 files updated in 1.004)
Now....I had the list of what was updated....I Un-installed again and re-installed.
played for one day with the original game config(15 games).....no crash
updated to the 1.002 patch...played for a day(15 games)....no crash
updated to the 1.003 patch...played for a day(20 games)....no crash
updated to the 1.004 patch...played for 1 hour...crash...played two more games...crash...played another...crash...played another...crash...etc..etc..
_______________________________________
config #times played #crashes
_______________________________________
original 15 0
1.002 15 0
1.003 20 0
1.004 20 8
_______________________________________
crashes per game played
_______________________________________
original 0%
1.002 0%
1.003 0%
1.004 40%
_______________________________________
prognosis
_______________________________________
something in the 1.004 patch is glitchy
_______________________________________
Then i went to file swapping
language.mix....RA2.mix.....etc...etc...
tested each file for two hours each.
The only one that had any affect on the crash was The RA2.mix.....swapped it with the original(out of the box) RA2.mix......no crash...Swapped it back....crash
This leads me to this conclusion
original RA2.mix=good...stable...no problems
v1.004 of RA2.mix=crash...unstable...problems
I looked to see if there were any updates to the RA2.mix between the original release and 1.004....didnt see any difference in the file sizes.....but this was before i had the tools to tear the mix down and examine them.
When i get the time....I will start scrutinizing the RA2.mix and give you all the info on it i can(file sizes...changes in the .ini files....and files added to the mix between patches)
I KNOW beyond a reasonable doubt that THIS IS A BUG IN THE RA2.MIX
If i'm wrong....I'll be the first to admit it In big bold letters on this buletin board....but i have a strong feeling that i'm not wrong.
Just humor me.....take a look at the history of the RA2.mix over the course of the time since it's been released and start comparing the files....I'll give you all the input i can on this starting at the beginning of next month(I'll be 10 days away from the release of my next mod)
I want this problem solved just as bad as you do...if not even worse...since i play online and love this kind of game.
Sincerely.
Eric.(sgtmay)
[This message has been edited by sgtmay (edited 04-19-2001).]
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:49 PM
ShockOps:
The only one flaming here is YOU. You post these FLAMES saying to do this and this or this to fix the problem-- GUESS WHAT, IT'S A BUG IN WESTWOOD'S CODE, NOTHING WE CHANGE WILL FIX IT FOR SURE, OR FOR GOOD. Westwood needs to DEAL with this problem and release a patch for it, all of the app shutdowns, driver updates and re-formats won't help if the problem is IN THE GAME.
I'm not starting a flame war, I'm just mad that Westwood's only rep that even seemed to care can't handle criticism, and can't deal with the fact that this is REALLY a problem with their software. It's like pointing to a hole in the canvas of a beautiful painting, telling the artist that he made a mistake, and the artist telling us that the hole is SUPPOSED to be there and we just need to look at it differently.
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ShockOps
Member
posted 04-19-2001 03:59 PM
"The only one flaming here is YOU. You post these FLAMES saying to do this and this or this to fix the problem-- GUESS WHAT, IT'S A BUG IN WESTWOOD'S CODE, NOTHING WE CHANGE WILL FIX IT FOR SURE, OR FOR GOOD. Westwood needs to DEAL with this problem and release a patch for it, all of the app shutdowns, driver updates and re-formats won't help if the problem is IN THE GAME."
"The only one flaming here is YOU. You post these FLAMES saying to do this and this or this to fix the problem"
Thats right! Im giving out ideas on how to fix your problem!! You got a problem with that than your screwed up. I'm trying to help people fix the problem and there isn't any thing wrong with that, its alot better than you flaming me for helping out!
"Westwood needs to DEAL with this problem" We are trying to deal with the problem, but when we try to help you and tell you what to do you flame us for giving you ideas of what to do. The fact of the matter Locke_Cole is that you dont want to do any thing to fix your problem and you want some one else to do every thing for you. This is not a flame im just correcting some thing here.
- ShockOps
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sgtmay
Member
posted 04-19-2001 04:07 PM
Shockops...locke-cole
PLEASE stop fighting....It is counter productive to the whole object...which is to get this problem fixed.
We all need to put our differences aside and make the best of this oppertuinity to put our input in on this subject.
I'm just trying to sort through all the stuff here and get some clues as to what everybody has as far as their os and processors.
Even if it means swallowing our pride sometimes and just getting along.
Please dont fight.
Eric(sgtmay)
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 04:07 PM
ShockOps:
I'm just letting you know how it feels, being told you're flaming when you're not (just as I wasn't flaming, yet you're sitting there accusing me). Your help is appreciated, but USELESS considering the problem is WITHIN THE GAME. No other software product or game exhibits this problem, EXCEPT RA2.
About the crap you spewed saying I don't want to fix the problem, I want someone else too-- YOU'RE RIGHT, ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! I paid GOOD MONEY for this BROKEN GAME. I expect the person I paid (that's Westwood) to fix the problem, not dance around and tell me it's some problem with my system (that has no problem running other games, strangely enough this is lost on Westwood's ears). I'm sorry to break the holy rule that thou shalt speak no evil of Westwood, but any REASONABLE person can recognize when they're being spoon-fed the answer-of-the-week..
FYI: I'VE TRIED EVERY TIP/SUGGESTION/IDEA, THEY DO NOT WORK. IT STILL CRASHES.
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ShockOps
Member
posted 04-19-2001 04:11 PM
sgtmay:
I agree with you 100%!!
- ShockOps
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sgtmay
Member
posted 04-19-2001 04:35 PM
Locke.
Read my post about 5 posts up if you want to know what the problem is.
This problem WILL be solved even if i have to do it myself.
I have the tools to do it and i WILL do it.
I'm starting on it ASAP....the earliest date i can start on it is May 1st.
And...Remember this...Who cares what people think.....If we all cared what people thouught we wouldnt have electricity....the automobile...computers....lots of things
Take what people say on here at face value....you cant see their faces so what does it matter what they say.
They arent you and you are not them.
Eric.
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therude00
Member
posted 04-19-2001 04:39 PM
this topic is WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY to long
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 05:03 PM
sgtmay:
Thanks for the heads up, and the good info-- this looks like the most promising lead I've seen regarding this bug. =) I hope it pans out!
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louisbs
Member
posted 04-19-2001 05:31 PM
Dunno if this is relevent but.. i have tested ra2 with Win98 and WinMe and with both os's it crashes to desktop. no warning and i find myself back to winblows.
Now I am running Win2k i get internal errors and they seem more frequent when i install each map pack. My hardware config hasnt changed. I was unable to fully install 1.004 patch .. **** ra2.mix .. but i got a patched one off my friend.
System stats :
AMD k7 Athlon 650 (old one)
MSI K7pro Motherboard (Not VIA)
256Mb Pc100 Ram
SoundBlaster Live
and all the other stuff.
All my drivers are up to date. DirectX 8 is installed.
Just to rule out the possibilty of it being an incompatibilty with ra2 and AMD with a soundblaster live. I am borrowing a cheap 16 bit soundcard from my brother. Will let you know if it makes any difference.
I hope this problem can be sorted soon.
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SHADY-CNCU
Member
posted 04-19-2001 05:52 PM
shock....locke shut up...start your own thread if you want to argue over this... leave the argueing in the other threads.... if you can play online at all you are lucky from my vantage point... ive had 5 game online in the last 2 months... i cant get a game to load up worht a crap.. sgt may knows.. i do every thing that people have said shutt every thing down in the background... then start RA2 start my dsl linkup and go into the game... get to WOL join a game and accept... we start loading then it all stops for me... everyone else joins i dont i am still stitting ther 15 mins later..stuck... no you have nothin to gripe about...
and as now it seems that you have drivin away the one person who has spent more tha 10 minutes answering questions... for what?? so you can say that im right and you are wrong... does any one trying to get help really care?? nnnoooo they dont...they, like me just wanna play!!! thats it you can argue on your own thread or get icq or somthin and do it there...
Shady
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 05:58 PM
SHADY-CNCU:
I'll make this easy--
If I could play this game for any length of time reliably AND enjoy it, do you think I'd be posting here?
Thanks for your vote that RA2 is officially broken though, atleast the in-flux of posts shows that it's a bit more than a "minimal" problem.
[This message has been edited by Locke_Cole (edited 04-19-2001).]
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SHADY-CNCU
Member
posted 04-19-2001 06:01 PM
we get the point you are not happy..neither am i.. ive done every thing i could try to fix it.. wait and see.. maybe it will be in the next patch...
ive got thread on my problem flame me there..its up twards the top.. if you must..not here..
shady
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SHADY-CNCU
Member
posted 04-19-2001 06:32 PM
its not broken i can still go throught the missions.... and kill 7 brutal AI's w/ no probs
shady
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General Kirov
Member
posted 04-19-2001 06:36 PM
this has to be the longest post i have ever seen that deals with something that every1 is having trouble with
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 07:06 PM
Alright the first thing that caugth my eye is this..
"As for their help, no, they're not being helpful-- we're being told to use our computers the way THEY want us to, not the way we want to and the way every other software manufacturer has us use it (by shutting everything down). Why is it NO OTHER GAME has this problem but RA2? I think that pretty well places the problem with RA2, not with my system configuration (which is perfect anyways)."
For having "15 years technical experiance". you sure dont know a lot. If you truely knew as much as you say you do then you would know that answers to your questions. I think you are just starting to learn the smallest side of computers (windows 9X) and yet your immature boasting personality makes you think you know it all. Also I just noticed as I was typing this post, you said your 25 years old right?? So let me guess you started learning computers when you where 10? I bet I could post some simple questions that you would get wrong.. I cant belive I didnt notice the plain lie about your age and experiance, I feel almost as dumb as you for not noticing it(Ok well make not AS dumb as you)!
More to come l8ter.. Hope you guys enjoy your non-helpfull flame thread! You guys turned it into it by flaming Tim. Tim never said "This is not a bug" he has posted many times (in caps) "we still DONT KNOW IF THIS IS A BUG"
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 07:10 PM
Shady,
Your problem seems pretty simple..
"shock....locke shut up...start your own thread if you want to argue over this... leave the argueing in the other threads.... if you can play online at all you are lucky from my vantage point... ive had 5 game online in the last 2 months... i cant get a game to load up worht a crap.. sgt may knows.. i do every thing that people have said shutt every thing down in the background... then start RA2 start my dsl linkup and go into the game... get to WOL join a game and accept... we start loading then it all stops for me... everyone else joins i dont i am still stitting ther 15 mins later..stuck... no you have nothin to gripe about..."
It looks like there is a firewall setup (Maybe not at your house, maybe on your ISP's side some DSL companys do this so the end user does not have to worry about it). Contact me at [email protected] and i'll see what I can do to help you. Or you can post your information here (including what DSL modem you use).
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rgranjr
Member
posted 04-19-2001 07:34 PM
To Tim @ West wood and the RA Community last night I spotted this thread and read through and may have a answer for all !!
I Think "all" are right here which is leading to all the anger and frustration .
While 1.004 may have some problems with the way it uses resources, I'll leave that alone for now.
The Problem as I see it is the way the different versions of Windows and the way different systems handle Shutting down - running programs.
I have seen for my self on a win 2000 mach that a program that was shut down STILL had Hooks to the resources.
I mention win 2000 because the mach I saw this happen on had a screen under system tools that Win 95 and 98 did not have.
The person I need to talk to will not be around for a few more days but I will get the right Terminology from them on what displays this info.
There was a game a few years ago I played with my son that handled this problem very well , it created a Boot Disk to start the Computer up with so these Programs never get started. It was Rebel Assault by Lucas Arts The problem for us may be that this was a Dos game , I'm not sure But a boot disk should work for us , but it will require us to learn about our system and how to edit our start up files Autoexec.bat and config.sys , That's even if we are using them !
Tim is right there is a lot of sloppy Coding going on in some programs so shutting down these running programs may not really free up what we are looking for. This in turn may be leading to faulty reports that are being sent to westwood , we are shutting down the progs but there not going away and the report is showing that.
Hope this helps I'll post after I talk with that IT Person.
Rick
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 07:35 PM
OK stgma or what ever your name is..
"something in the 1.004 patch is glitchy"
I see where westwood is coming from. Technically, seing as how only (just saying this as reference) 'AMD CPUS Crash'. It isnt a problem with 1.004 because this mainly happens on AMD computers (Yes a VERY FEW people with Intel crash to desktop but it could be anything, maybe they have a memory issue who knows. IM NOT SAYING they do its just a posibility) it is not a bug in the patch rarther a posible confict with AMD cpus. Therfor Westwood IS NOT soley responable, AMD is also responceable for not making sure their CPU is %100 compatible with all apps and codeing. Locke and others if you have even taken logic 101 or have had more then 3 years of experiance in the computer feild(AS A JOB, Not sitting on your lazy asses playing around with stuff). I can tell you this, dont go for a job in the computer feild. It just wont work out, keep it as a hobby but dont try to make it a job (no one will hire you!).
Look people, you saved $50 - $100 on your AMD cpu mainly because they are less standerd hence more posibilitys for problems. I'm not saying its all AMD's fault, but its not all westwoods fault either the system requirements on the box is what most people see when they go to buy it. If you didnt see the P2 266Mhz its not westwoods fault (IM NOT SAYING THAT RA2 WILL NOT WORK WITH RA2 I'M SAYING THAT THE BOX INDACATES THAT IT WILL NOT). You should be thankfull westwood is trying to fix your problem and not ignoring.. because they can if they want to, and after this topic I woulnt be supprised if they did.
'If RA2 doesnt run on a Mac do you blame westwood?'
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wildwezl
Member
posted 04-19-2001 07:59 PM
FREELANCE **** off with that crap. I bought an amd from falcon nw because it was rated the best gaming computer around by several gaming mags at the time. It was and is a good machine. There was nothing "cheap" about it. It has run mre than 100 games just fine. RA2 is the only 1 that crahes like this so give it a rest willya. And ya I would blame it on WW if the mac version wouldnt run on a mac. So blow.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 08:07 PM
Shall I remind you that Falcon has recently stoped making PCs with athlons and is now using P4s and P3s because athlon had to many issues.
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WaveCable
Member
posted 04-19-2001 08:10 PM
FreeLaNce
Man...You must work for westwood and have huge shares in Intel.
Is it just me or is everyone else getting tired of this AMD issue? I think most people would agree with me that any game they buy SHOULD be able to play on an AMD system.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 08:22 PM
Not if the box says it requires an Intel P2 266mhz.. No I do not work for westwood or have anyshares in any stock. GO blame AMD for their comptibility issues.
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 08:39 PM
-FreeLaNce-:
Nice flamebait moron.
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EliteMastaa
Member
posted 04-19-2001 08:52 PM
Hey, I have a problem and maybe you guys can help me out since ww takes 3 months to respond to one question. Here it is...
I can re-install ra2, i uninstalled because it was runing really slow, now when I try to re-install it, a little white box appears in the middle of my screen and my computer freezes. Please hepl me out guys! i would really appechiate it. I have had this probelm for about 3 weeks. I have to play red alert!!
-Thanks
--Matt
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Author
Topic: Desktop Crash - response from Westwood
wildwezl
Member
posted 04-19-2001 08:55 PM
Hey Freelance here is current recommended falcon sytem for multiplayer games off their website
SURE LOOKS LIKE IT SAYS AMD !!!!!
Key features:. We have included the AMD Thunderbird processor along with DDR memory and a Hercules 3D Prophet/GeForce II Ultra for liquid smooth framerates on the most graphically intense games. The Andrea Headset included allows you to converse with your teammates. This is crucial for instantaneous communication without interruptions for typing. Feel free to contact [email protected] if you have any questions.
Motherboard
Asus A7M266 AMD 760 chipset, Socket A motherboard, 1 AGP, 5 PCI, 0 ISA, 2 USB, AGP 4X, ATA100
AMD CPU
AMD Thunderbird 1200MHz / 266fsb, 3D Now!, 256Kcache
CPU Cooler
CPU cooler/heatsink for Thunderbird CPUs
256MB DDR SDRAM
256 Megabyte DDR SDRAM, PC2100
ATX Midtower
3- 5¼" & 5- 3½" (2 open) bays, 300 Watt PS, 2 extra fans
Hard Drive
IBM Deskstar, 30gig, 7200 RPM, Ultra-DMA ATA 100 hard drive
Floppy Drive
TEAC 1.44mb 3½" Drive
Video Card
Hercules 3D Prophet/GeForce II ULTRA, 64meg, AGP
Keyboard
Keytronics 104 Key
Mouse
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer - USB
CD-ROM
Sony 52X Speed, Internal, Caddyless, 90ms, UDMA/2
Sound Card
Creative Labs Live! EAX support, quad speaker support
Speakers
Klipsch Pro Media 4.1 speakers, 4 satellites @ 60w and subwoofer @ 160w
Int. Modem
3Com Hardware Modem, PCI, ITU v.90
Headset
Andrea ANC-65 Stereo Headset
Windows ME
Windows Millennium on CD, full version
Network Hub
D-Link DE-805TP/C 5 Port Networking Hub, 10 Base-T
Network Card
D-Link DFE-530TX 10/100 Base-T Ethernet, PCI
Current price: $2,731
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-19-2001 08:56 PM
SHUT-UP ALL OF YOU! DON'T you see the END is NEAR GET with it!
transnote I tried your humble suggestion but RA2 will not let you play without a sound card indeed and I almost messed up my DirectX
IMHO during the patching it MIGHT have somehow corupted the RA2.MIX, since it is a very large file (its 260 MB for pete's sake! Tiberian Sun file was ONLY 76 MB or so! That's a big difference!)
If you switch the RA2.mix with the original RA2.mix you cannot play online...and that is something I cannot do If you extract the rules.ini from the new RA2.mix and put it in your RA2 directory then you can perhaps override it.
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-19-2001 08:58 PM
Oh, and ShockOps, you are flaming too, by your definition. Be the bigger man and just ignore it. ok?
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 08:59 PM
At least I dont have to lie about my age and technical skill locke. You disgust me, your nothing but a technical wannabe. You proally dont even know what CCNA stands for. Hah you even think and AS Degree is a Cert!
Also for the guy with the white box problem. I remeber this problem but I forgot the fix (sorry ). Did delete your RA2 folder before you reinstalled?? I got more solutions to try but I wanna get this one out of the way first. Also does anyone remeber what to do eactly?
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:00 PM
-FreeLaNce-:
About your delusions of me saying I was in the computer biz for fifteen years, here's the quote where I say how many years I've been working with computers--
"I don't respect people who have CCNA, MCSE or other "fancy paper certificates that say you're smart". I'm self-taught, and been in the software development business for almost a decade, playing games even longer, and doing low level assembly programming that you'd probably choke if you even looked at. PLEASE, quit trying to put folks down by playing the "I'm smarter" game-- there's always someone smarter than you reading here, just remember that."
----
Oh, and that last part? It still stands.
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poppasp1ce
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:01 PM
Everyone here seems to attribute the desktop crash to AMD chips, but honestly I think it has more to do with non-Intel chipsets (VIA, ALi, etc.). Unfortunately if you have an AMD chip then its inherent that you also have a VIA, ALi, etc. chipset (duh). The reason I say this is because I have two Pentium III's, one with an Intel 815 chipset and one with a VIA chipset, the VIA board crashes to desktop everytime. The 815 has never crashed. That probably doesn't help anyone, but I thought I'd let you know.
While I probably shouldn't I just can't resist: "And by my count there are about 30 of you that can't play." -- Tim-WS
If your saying that everyone in the world that is experiencing the 'crash to desktop' is posting in this forum, then by that same logic one can conclude that there is only about 2 people in the world that _can_ play without crashing to the desktop (since I've only seen maybe 2 posts stating that an individual is _not_ experiencing this problem).
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:03 PM
About the falcon system.. This news is new and I doubt they have updated the web site (or even made the changes to the systems yet)nor do I expect them to update it right away. Just like I dont expect westwood to stay at work all week long night and day to fix this problem. You guys expect to much from westwood and are not very greatfull for what they do give you!
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:05 PM
-FreeLaNce-:
CCNA = Cisco Certified Network Associate
Like I said, a paper intelligence quotient. Whee, you know how to setup Cisco equipment, congratulations.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:09 PM
Hum.. Lets look at your math. You said your 25 and you have 15 years of self taught experiance. SO what you started building and fixing PC's when you where 10?
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poppasp1ce
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:13 PM
"...been in the software development business for almost a decade."
Umm, a decade is 10 years, not 15. And he said "almost" a decade so that would make it even less.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:15 PM
OK.. Lets start of with the simple questions that you SHOULD know.
What port does Sendmail use by default?
Name 3 ways to view your IP address in WINNT 4.0 Service Pack 6?
Name 2 Linux C++ Compilers?
If a computer comes up with a blank screen when you turn it on what is most likely the problem?
What Does DNS stand for?
These are some very simple questions, if you get these all ask you some questions that are not in the Computers for dummys books.
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:16 PM
-FreeLaNce-:
YOU ARE A FREAKING MORON--
Did you miss the part above where it says I've been working on PC's for "about a decade"? I said I was self taught, that's right. I've been working on PC's ever since my dad was in school working on 8086 systems (before the 286 was released) in the mid/late 80's.
You can't read, so I doubt you're 17, or else you wouldn't be wasting my (and the rest of this boards) time with your rants about me supposedly LIEING about my age and skills. I'm 25. I've been working with PC's for "about a decade" (for you, that's "about 10 years", since you apperently think a decade is 15 years). My math says that means at the MOST I've been working with PC's since I was 15 (bzzt, but I said "almost" so it's more likely I was 16 or 17).
Looks like someones practicing a bit of that "fuzzy math" here..
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:18 PM
Answer the above questions that will finsh this all.
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:20 PM
SHUT UP ALL OF YOU! DON'T YOU SEE THE END IS NEAR GET WITH IT! I for one would like to escape...
Recently I have been very lucky and I have not experienced desktop crashes because I went to Start > Run and typed in MSCONFIG. In the DIALOG BOX that pops up uncheck LOAD ALL STARTUP PROGRAMS. Restart your computer. Load your JUST (NOTHING ELSE) your internet connection and play RA2 online. Test out the results.
Do it. NOW! It may not completely stop desktop crashes but it will help.
The only reason people flame is because of egotism. If one insults you most would have the uncontrollable and spontaneous urge to insult back. This may be ok in person and in real life but online it really would not make much of a difference. You can just simply ignore it.
[This message has been edited by YSLMuffins (edited 04-19-2001).]
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ShockOps
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:20 PM
YSLMuffins:
I didnt make the "definition" they other guy did. :P hehehe.. Anyway!
- ShockOps
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:22 PM
1) What port does Sendmail use by default?
SMTP defaults to port 25.
2) Name 3 ways to view your IP address in WINNT 4.0 Service Pack 6?
You need three ways? I usually just run ipconfig and trust the results.
3) Name 2 Linux C++ Compilers?
G++ is one, hell if I know of any others, althrough Borland is releasing a version of C++Builder for Linux in the near future; part of their Kylix project.
4) If a computer comes up with a blank screen when you turn it on what is most likely the problem?
Try plugging the power in.
5) What Does DNS stand for?
Domain Name System.
----
And you're right. They're easy.
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ShockOps
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:25 PM
"The only reason people flame is because of ego. If one insults you most would have the uncontrollable and spontaneous urge to insult back. This may be ok in person and in real life but online it really would not make much of a difference. You can just simply ignore it."
You are 100% correct! I tell alot of people on WOL when they are arguing and want to me to fix every thing, I say just ignore the person and let him dig his own pit..
Thanks
- ShockOps
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YSLMuffins
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:29 PM
You are welcome
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:36 PM
Thats why you got 3 wrong.. just as I thought your just getting into computers. You have some linux knowlage but not to much.
You got 2,3 and 4 wrong..
2. IPconfig is in windows9x not NT common newbie mistake.
3. You needed ONE MORE (Can you not read?? The irony is killing me!)
4. First thing is to check video cable duh!
[This message has been edited by -FreeLaNce- (edited 04-19-2001).]
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:43 PM
1. Where is the resolv.conf and what dir is it stored in under linux
2. What is administrive distance?
3. If a computer cant see other computers on a microsoft network what should you try first?
4. How do you capture a printer port in windows NT?
5. Whats the command to compile a simple C+ program under a linux terminal?
6. How do you get into single user mode in linux?
If your a programer you should know the answers to these questions quickly.
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:45 PM
7. What does VI stand for (You better know this one!)
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Locke_Cole
Member
posted 04-19-2001 09:56 PM
-FreeLaNce-:
Actually I didn't get any of your questions wrong. IPCONFIG is an NT command, you're confusing it with WINIPCFG.EXE. I don't need one more though, do you really need more than one? Finally, if you check the video cable you've accomplished nothing if the power cord isn't plugged in.
Moron.
As for the rest of your questions-- I'm not here for pop quiz day, anyone can memorize the bible and read it word for word (you're a CCNA, you know all about memorization.. go memorize); very few people can come up with the software solutions my co-workers and I come up with. But then, you don't know a **** thing about me or my work.
I said I was done with you before, well I think I've proved my point, and now I'm done with you for good.
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-19-2001 10:13 PM
-FreeLaNce-
SHUT THE **** UP! You are soo annoying dude. You must be a loser as well seeing your game works fine and your sitting here at the forums playing freakin alex trabek. Get the hell outta here you lil non pubescent pimpled face butt cheeze! And go play RA2! BTW.. Crashes happen on my p3 and my AMD...So quiet down and go back to Beakman's World!
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ViZioN X
Member
posted 04-19-2001 10:14 PM
-FreeLaNce-
SHUT THE **** UP! You are soo annoying dude. You must be a loser as well seeing your game works fine and your sitting here at the forums playing freakin alex trabek. Get the hell outta here you lil non pubescent pimpled face butt cheeze! And go play RA2! BTW.. Crashes happen on my p3 and my AMD...So quiet down and go back to Beakman's World!
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 10:59 PM
Yes your right about the IPconfig thing sorry my bad.
But the power cord should be pluged in.. I should have said blank screen.
The other one.. I did ask for 3 therefor you didnt answer my question.
Also you have not answered the second level of questions (Which you should know if your a programer). Like I said before, dont give up yet keep that computers for dummys near by!
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-FreeLaNce-
Member
posted 04-19-2001 11:04 PM
Gee, I'm so glad to hear you read all most post vir.. I guess you misunderstood me. I KNOW the problem happens on a very few intel chips (most likly indcating that somthing else is wrong in the intels IE lack of memory or confict. BUT it could go either way making it so difficult to pinpoint it to a bug you should know this locke.)
BTW I dont play RA2, the servers are to slow and are always full. But do you hear my complaining nooo because i'm sure it will get fixed.
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spyclip
Member
posted 04-19-2001 11:50 PM
Whenever youre done hosing the floor with your egos, maybe we can get back to the point and try to solve this problem. So in the meantime, STFU all of you! Maybe Tim will come back and at least keep us updated on WW progress! ****!
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Freelance_IS_Braindead
Member
posted 04-20-2001 12:35 AM
ok, If someone could copy this whole topic to another side where WW isnt able to delete it. I think it wont take long and the whole topic will be deleted again. WW behaves like "Big Brother" in "1984".
We could print the whole topic and put it in a letter an send it to WW. I think than someone will care about this thing. We should all pick up the phone and call customer support or something. I am really angree because I had a game that worked fine until 1.004. But what I dont like is: Oh no, our game is fine, but your computer is not ok. Thats not true, because
T H I S G A M E I S N O T W O R K I N G !!!!!
on nearly no Computer
Thats the truth. An I won my money back. WW give me my money back, please.
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