But Fleiss never planned on it all becoming "a big mess," as she calls it. She ran her business from 1990 to 1993 and it is reported that the going rate for a night with one of her girls was $1,500. Fleiss�s cut was 40% of everything, including tips. On her best day she cleared $97,000, on her worst $7,000. After being arrested by undercover policemen and convicted of pandering, tax evasion, and money laundering, she went on to serve three years in prison starting in 1997.
Now she has decided to document that time in her life in a new book, "Pandering" � an artistic pop culture collage of journal entries, newspaper clippings, transcribed conversations, interviews with her working girls and pages torn from that famous little black book. Through it all, Fleiss's unrestrained honesty and often boastful personality remains intact. And with the book the reader gets a peek at just what makes this former Hollywood sex player tick, with private introspections and personal philosophies. While some parts of the book may prove controversial, that aspect is nothing new in Fleiss's life. The former Madame spoke candidly at length in a recent interview about her notorious past and latest career move into the publishing world.
WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO DO THE BOOK AT THIS TIME?
I was under house arrest, I was jogging a lot and reflecting on my life. I started working on this book and thinking about going on a lecture tour. Then it just evolved.
WHAT CAN READERS EXPECT FROM IT?
This book is really about the dynamics of human nature, about men and woman and issues we all address like age, beauty, expectations, betrayal, love and anger, regret, hope. It's got everything in there.
THAT WHOLE SCANDAL MADE YOU BOTH FAMOUS AND INFAMOUS.
Oh, it's only infamous! And nothing good comes with it, no free endorsements, no perks. And it'll last forever.
ARE YOU OK WITH THAT OR WOULD YOU RATHER JUST HAVE THE FAME?
Oh I loved just being Heidi, before I was arrested. I had the best job on earth! When I got arrested I was so pissed the next day. After I got bailed out I was just sitting by my pool overlooking the entire city and thinking: "How did I f*ck up the best job on earth?" I felt one inch tall and I was bummed.
DID YOU EVER WANT CELEBRITY?
Never. The only reason I became such a celebrity from this is because I did this business better than anyone. I cornered the market at such a young age. I understand the dynamics of people, of human nature and how people want to be treated. It's not like these guys who are all "bitch, bring me my money!" That's not how it goes. People are complex and sex is a personal thing and it's very private. To incorporate all that you gotta be crafty.
DID GROWING UP IN HOLLYWOOD AFFECT YOUR ASPIRATIONS?
I had a home filled with love and stability, that didn't matter if it was Hollywood, it could have been in Idaho. But I love this town, I hate going away. Thank God for smog and earthquakes, otherwise every idiot on earth would live here! I love the people, I love the phoniness, I love the palm trees, I love that it's so diverse. And what I love most is that every single person here wants to be famous, even the garbage man. And if they say they don't they're lying!
IN HOLLYWOOD, SEX SELLS. WHEN DID YOU DISCOVER THAT?
Sex sells everywhere! I just happened to run my business in California and everyone wants a California girl. That had a lot to do with it.
WHEN DID YOU YOURSELF DISCOVER SEX?
The first time I had the sexual desire was towards my 8th grade gym teacher.
WHEN DID YOU LOSE YOUR VIRGINITY?
When I was 18. I was a little slow on the sex side.
HOW DID YOU DISCOVER THE POWER OF MONEY?
I learned that money talks when I was in 7th grade when I would pay for my grades. I would copy someone and if they hemmed and hawed I would offer them a little money. So you learn that people will do anything for money.
DO YOU HAVE A NATURAL BUSINESS SENSE?
I learned business at a young age. I ran a baby-sitting business when I was 13.
DID YOU EVER THINK YOU WOULD MAKE A BUSINESS OUT OF SEX?
Never in my life! I don't view myself like that. If you look at someone like Pamela Anderson, that woman just exudes sexuality. I don't see myself like that. I'm just Heidi.
WHAT DID YOU WANT TO BE WHEN YOU GREW UP?
I don't know, because at one point I wanted to work for the LA County Museum and be an art curator.
The problem was I wasn't good academically in school.
IT�S BEEN SAID YOU WERE INSPIRED BY ANOTHER WOMAN FAMOUS FOR RUNNING PROSTITUTES, MADAME ALEX. HOW DID YOU MEET HER AND WHAT WAS SHE LIKE?
I met her through [filmmaker and former boyfriend] Ivan Nagy. She was a nut, but I loved her. If you picture a Madame you picture someone like Faye Dunaway, a hot, sexy women. Then you meet Madame Alex and she's five-foot-three, practically bald, only wears muumuus and bedridden. I was like "whoa!" But we got along, we talked on the phone for hours and hours.
DID YOU LEARN HER BUSINESS BY HANGING OUT WITH HER?
I revamped her business. The first month I met her, she got arrested. I saw she had the ugliest girls working for her. So I brought in new girls and I changed her whole thing around. Then we had a falling out and went our separate ways.
THERE WAS SPECULATION THAT YOU STOLE HER BLACK BOOK.
There�s no black book, there's no secret magic tricks. It doesn't work like that. With every Madame back through history they talk about the black book but there�s no such thing, it's just a title they've given it. Like I said, sex is personal and intimate. I never once called a client. You gotta let people decide when they want to do it, how they want to do it, where they want to do it and I let them call me.
HOW DID YOU FIND THE GIRLS?
They came to me in droves. From growing up, girls always hung out with me, beautiful girls. I don't know why. Maybe because when I was younger I was a tomboy and I hung out with all the cute guys. All the cute girls wanted to meet the cute guys, so they hung out with me. Once word got out what I did, I never solicited one girl. There were lines of them that wanted to do this. Where else do you hear about getting a million-dollar tip?
WAS IT ABOUT THE MONEY OR MEETING THE RICH AND FAMOUS MEN?
You can�t give a blanket answer because everyone thinks different. Who knows, maybe some just had a fantasy of doing it one night and maybe some had a fantasy that they would marry one of these guys and maybe some wanted the money. They all had different reasons.
WHAT WAS EXPECTED OF THEM?
Sex was not mandatory because a lot of times these guys didn't want to have sex. But if they want to have sex, they all knew why they were meeting me, it wasn�t just for conversation.
WHAT WAS YOUR CLIENTELE LIKE?
I dealt with some of the richest people on this earth.
SO HOW BIG WAS THE MONEY?
Oh I made tons of money, everyone knows it. I never had to worry about money, ever.
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT WERE SOME OF THE TOP PRICES PAID?
I have all that in my book, the biggest tips, everything.
WHO WERE THE MOST REQUESTED GIRLS?
No such thing. Everyone's got different tastes. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
WHAT WERE SOME OF THE MOST EXTREME THINGS YOU HEARD THE GIRLS DID?
It's in my book. I have nine Q&As with the girls. They're all pretty interesting.
YOU WROTE IN YOUR BOOK THAT "PROSTITUTION IS AN ACT OF CARING BECAUSE THE GUYS ARE PAYING FOR THE GIRLS TO HAVE NICE THINGS." DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT?
Look, how can John Doe be having sex with a girl and not helping her out? How in good conscience, can he let a girl he's fallen in love with and cares about, walk around with all that stress? That�s what I mean by that.
BUT DO YOU THINK THEY REALLY HAD THAT ON THEIR MIND?
Sometimes. Because some girls were set for life, from one guy. Some girls received income-producing properties or were given a sum of money where they'd never have to work again. Some girls were married. Some of my girls rose to the top and some sunk to the bottom.
DO YOU THINK THE MEN WHO CAME TO YOU WERE JUST LOOKING FOR SEX WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED?
Well, look how convenient it is. For example, say you have a businessman who is trying to sell a sports team. He has people in from out of town and he's gotta take them out to dinner. He doesn't want to go out, he probably just wants to go home and get in bed, read his business or talk to his wife. So what's he going to do with these guys, how's he going to entertain them? How easy it is to just call me up and know he going to get great girls and these guys are going to be sent to heaven!
DID YOU EVER FEEL GUILTY THAT SOME OF THESE MEN WERE MARRIED?
I tried not to get into the personal aspect of it. How I see it, it all matters how you�re treating that person at home. I don�t have a problem with these guys seeing call girls, but if he has a girlfriend at home, I hope he�s treating her right.
YOU�VE HAD SOME TROUBLES WITH DRUG ADDICTION. WHEN DID THAT START?
Every once in awhile I would get a limo and call a bunch of girlfriends and go out. One of them might have some coke but I hated coke. I tried it maybe three times in my life. Then later on I got into crystal meth and I loved it.
WERE YOU DRINKING TOO?
I don't drink. I'll have some sake with sushi once awhile, that's about it.
WERE YOU ABLE TO QUIT THE DRUGS?
I was in rehab.
HOW WAS THAT?
The first time I went to Impact [Drug and Alcohol Treatment Center], the hardcore one. I went from my [Beverly Hills mansion] to Impact House and it was like a death sentence. I dragged my feet all the way there. Then I had to go back again right before I went to prison.
DURING YOUR TRIAL YOU STARTED A FASHION LINE AND BOUTIQUE CALLED "HEIDI WEAR." WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THAT?
It's all online now [www.heidiwear.com]. I closed up the stores when I went to prison because it was too painful. I loved that store so much and I would call over there and hear about who was hanging out and who was dating who and who was wearing what. And I was sitting there with shitty food in this shitty place with no privacy where I have to wait in line for a shower, have someone trying to have sex with me or someone trying to shake me down. I had a lot of problems.
Y
OU WERE IN PRISON FOR THREE YEARS. HOW DID IT AFFECT YOU?
It was a horrible experience but in my head I tried to make it a good one by saying I came out a better person, I learned some qualities I may have been lacking, like how to be more compassionate. My priorities are different now.
HOW DID THE OTHER INMATES REACT TO YOU?
Oh, they were waiting for me!
DID YOU GET IN ANY FIGHTS?
Oh yeah, I got beat up pretty bad and I beat some people up pretty bad.
WHEN YOU CAME OUT OF PRISON, HOW DID YOU REACT TO BEING BACK IN THE REAL WORLD?
I had a really tough transition. In fact, I'm still balancing out. All that anxiety I went through for three years, I thought once I got out I wouldn't have to worry about hustlers and creeps. But it wasn't true, there are hustlers and creeps everywhere.
DID YOU FEEL LIKE PEOPLE WERE LOOKING AT YOU IN A BAD LIGHT BECAUSE THEY KNEW ABOUT WHAT YOU DID?
Oh, I don't care about that. I don't care if people think they know everything about me. Do you ever really know anyone?
DID YOU USE THE BOOK TO TRY TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE MISCONCEPTIONS?
No, it�s just a very honest, open book and I don't care what people say or think about me. Because if you worry about that, then you�re their prisoner.
A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW IF YOU WILL EVER REVEAL THE NAMES IN YOUR LITTLE BLACK BOOK?
Just because I sunk the ship doesn't mean I have to bring everyone down with me. To me that's not important. Who cares! Anyone you think might be sleeping with someone probably is. And they�re probably doing it much kinkier than you think. Those books don't do anyone any good, all they do is hurt people. There�s nothing positive in it. I like good energy, good vibes, I like to move forward.
ARE YOU STILL FRIENDS WITH THE GIRLS YOU WORKED WITH?
We've all moved on. It was a time of innocence and sex and fun. Who knew it would turn into a big giant mess.
WAS THAT TIME PERIOD THE PEAK OF YOUR LIFETIME?
Hey, we all go through chapters in our life. This was just one of the chapters. And there's many more to come.
WHAT'S NEXT?
I have my own publishing company. I'm publishing this book myself and I�m publishing three more books. Then I'll probably put out my prison journal one day. It's handwritten and very intimate and all the people are real. A good story never gets old.
I LIKE THE NAME OF THE PUBLISHING COMPANY "1 HOUR ENTERTAINMENT."
Yep, you gotta have a sense of humor, always!
Originally written for Tongue Magazine, Jan. 2003