Timeless And Just In Time
BY Michael Fremer
(The following interview with Chris Isaak was conducted in August of 1987. It appeared the next year in a slightly different form in an audiophile magazine called The Absolute Sound. I now write for another audiophile magazine called Stereophile, and I edit a music review magazine called The Tracking Angle which covers both CDs and especially vinyl-and which tries to be as ahead of the scene as this story and interview were then.)
There are hints of Orbison, Presley, and other rockabilly singers in the voice, the songs and even in Chris Isaak's look, but alas, not in the sound of his first two albums, which, while not bad by today's low standards, lacks the natural spaciousness, and frequency extension of those old "primitive" recordings Isaak obviously used as role models. The bass is ill defined while the top end is spitty and compressed.
What if I could get to Isaak and talk about sound and perhaps influence the sonics of his next record? How about a Chris Isaak album recorded by Bill Porter (Elvis and Roy Orbison's engineer on many of their recordings)? Also, I thought it would just be interesting to see what the guy was like, do I contacted Les Schwartz, the director of publicity at Warner Brothers in Burbank, and arranged for an interview.
Chris had sold out The Bottom Line (a New York nightclub) in May and again in July while in town opening for The Thompson Twins at a much larger venue. The demand for another Bottom Line show was so great, Chris was literally forced to appear again in August.
I spoke with him at Warner Brothers' Rockefeller Center headquarters the afternoon of that Bottom Line show, which I was fortunate enough to attend. The interview and show made clear that Isaak poses, but he is not a poseur. He has drawn from the masters, but he hasn't suck their musical blood.
Issak is not a musical vampire. On the other hand, he can sometimes be so glib and offhanded both on stage and in the interviewee's hot seat that he takes on a David Letterman-like quality, where you aren't really sure whether he's being serious or doing a well orchestrated parody.
Other times you think you're just experiencing a well restored customized version of an old product- like a mint '57 Chevy that's been turbocharged. You get the sense that as an adolescent, Isaak sat in his Stockton California home listening to early rock and roll on the radio when it was fresh and new, telling himself, "I can do that, and when I grow up, I will". And he's still stuck in that musical realm, proving his childhood fantasy.
On stage with his band, Isaak is clearly the group leader. There's no partnership ala Jagger/Richard between him and guitarist James Calvin Wilsey. There's no haberdashery democracy as with the dress-alike early Beatles. Instead, the stage picture consists of Bassist Rowland Salley stage- right, Wilsey stage left and drummer Kenny Dale Johnson behind on a riser, all dressed in cool grey suits. But Isaak, stage center, wears an electric blue lame suit.
He could be Conrad Birdie in a summer stock production of "Bye Bye Birdie". Or he could come across as even more pathetic. But he doesn't. And that is part of the fascination. It takes guts to get on stage looking like a parody. It would be so much easier for Isaak to dress in something unique and contemporary. But you get the idea that Isaak feels he must earn his way to the top by retracing the great steps of rock and roll carrying the white man's musical burden.
Not that Isaak is on some sort of serious historical quest. His stage persona suggests quite the opposite. He is, the most skilled musician- monologist I've seen on stage since Springsteen and a hell of lot funnier, exhibiting an incisor-like sense of humor, dripping with nasty sarcasm. Isaak isn't against being the butt of his humor, but he really shovels it out at the individual band members.
Not because of their playing, certainly. Bassist Salley plays fast, clean, muscular, and very deep. Drummer Johnson looks pained throughout the set but delivers hard, though unsophisticated support ala Ringo Starr, while Wilsey's guitar rings and shimmers and fills in the sound with grace and taste.
Hearing Chris Isaak and band live only emphasized the technical inadequacies of his recordings. Will our chat influence his next record? Judge for yourself. But just to be sure, at the end of the interview, I gave Isaak a 90 minute cassette of Presley, Orbison and Everly Brothers originals dubbed off my Oracle turntable onto a Nakamichi BX-300. I began things by giving him a few minutes to look through a copy of The Absolute Sound. While he was looking at it, I was looking at him. I sized him up as a wise guy (the interview took place before the show), and prepared for a battle of wits. I got one, but in print you'll have to sometimes read between the lines to see it.
-MFCI: The Absolute Sound? What's this about?
MF: Its an audiophile magazine. Are you familiar with it?
CI: No. That's what this interview is for?
MF: Yes. I'm the popular music editor.
CI: Popular music? What does that have to do with me?
MF: I'm also the unpopular music editor.
CI: ( After being shown the Bill Porter interview) The RCA stuff that Elvis did. I think its some of the best sounding...the quality of the sound for the time it was. People always say "well nowadays we got the compact disk, we got this and that" and they say "that stuff doesn't stand up". Well, crank that stuff up in your car and crank up anything else you want to play and it stands up fine! ...Its always interesting, half the time you talk to these guys (older heroes, whether musicians or engineers) and they say "yea, I got that sound, but I don't want to do that anymore, now we've got digital recording...". A lot of times you go back to your hero and you go "what a great sound you had on those old Gretsches." And he goes "Gretsch? Peavey man! Tube amp? Forget the tube amps, we got this new one" and you kind of just go oh God!
MF: How conscious are you of sound quality?
CI: Very.
MF: I think you have created a musical and visual image that blends fifties and eighties sensibilities into something new, but your recordings tend to produce a sonic clash of values to my ears.
CI: I try to get the eighties sound. I think that to go back and say I want this to sound like a fifties recording...there are some aspects of our sound that are old fashioned or classic, or whatever you want to call it- the vocal being way on top of the mix- trying to leave a lot of space for the guitar, using echoes that are big and clear. My idea of a good echo is a big room sound. I always heard about the RCA building where they used a staircase or the church next door or something. And Buddy Holly recording in a big ballroom, I think. They use actual big space. I like that kind of feeling. But there are certain things they do now on some stuff. For example the punch of the electronic drums. That real heavy beautiful sound. The clarity of different tracks. I like that. People who don't have trained ears, or who aren't listening carefully say, "Oh you don't use synthesizers and drum machines", well they're wrong. I've used drum machines, synthesizers, I've used multitrack and double track and slave tracked, cross cut- anyway I can, to get what I want.
MF: Do you think a live album of your performances would be effective?
CI: Could be. Certain songs would be good live because I have a swinging band and they could cut it live.
MF: Have you thought about cutting a studio album "live"?
CI: I've thought about it because I work with Lee Herschberg as an engineer and he's worked with just about everybody I think is good, and he's got so much experience. Its like question and answer period with him. I mean I don't even know enough to ask him intelligent questions half the time. You describe to him what you want, and you get it. But I'd like to make a one microphone recording with him. One mic in a room and everybody sings... I've always liked recordings where people played live together. If you listen to the old Stones records you can kind of hear where the people in the room were standing almost.
MF: Even in mono.
CI: It sounds like they're in a room playing. And now it doesn't sound like that. It sounds like the singer sings through that little speaker, the guitar player comes throught that little speaker but they don't sound like they're placed in a room because there's not an echo thats all blending into one microphone anywhere. I like the idea of going for a one take recording and doing twenty five takes, you know?...I bet you could take about 99 percent of the people out there singing today- big stars- and you put them in a one track recording and they'd be out of the business. They cannot sing! I think I can sing. There's a lot of things I don't have going for me, but I think I can sing.
MF: LIke what?
CI: LIke musically I don't know how good a songwriter I'm going to be. And as a singer I think I have a pretty good voice, but I don't know about my style. I'm still trying to find my own strong style. In songwriting when you compare yourself to someone like John Lennon, you feel like shooting yourself.
MF: Everybody does.
CI: I met Roy Orbison. I wish I could have written one of the songs he's done. I mean he's got fifteen songs that I haven't touched that height.
MF: Well you're on your way. There is a lot of real emotion in your songs compared to some of the wallpaper that's out there. ...You write a lot in minor keys.
CI: I like that. I'll probably continue to write a lot of stuff in minor key. I really like that sound. Its up to me to expand. I'm trying to write a little bit on piano. I don't know how to play piano, but I bought one. A real one.
MF: And you're going into the studio in a few weeks?
CI: Yup! I hope to record three songs at a time.
MF: It seems like there are few young performers who are willing to accept the responsibility and stick their neck out and be the front man and go for stardom.
CI: Yes I know, because I kind of see it in the old position of...it used to be a bunch of musicians would go out and play and there was one guy who was the team ham and he's elected to go out- if somebody breaks a string, or loses a drum stick in the middle of a solo, this guy is the guy on the spot. He covers for everybody else. That's what you do when you're on stage. You keep the entertainment going. Some people now get really slick. Really Vegas. I mean I have certain things I say in every show that are almost rehearsed, but it changes and you should be able to deal with things as they come up and bullshit and ad lib. And some of these people on stage are just by the numbers. Smile turn, tell a little joke, laugh. Now its this side of the audience's turn. Now this. "I love being here in Cleveland. Are you ready to rock and roll?" If there's the kind of person who wants to stand up and take flak, it happens.
MF: That's the fun of it isn't it?
CI: Yea, it is part of the fun. Its also really scary. Sometimes I wish to Christ I could just play my guitar and sing and there was this guy talking in between and I could just go what's the next song and what notes do I have to hit?
MF: Well that's leadership right? Not wanting to fade into oblivion?
CI: Well I've never felt a band was like a democracy. None of the bands I've ever liked were. Democracy is a great concept but not for rock and roll. I always thought rock and roll was gangs. Every gang's got a leader. You stand up front, you take the worst. And you get the best.
MF: What you're doing is what has traditionally been identified as mainstream rock and roll and yet you can't seem to get on the radio. What's going on?
CI: I'm not sure that my stuff will ever be popular on the radio.
MF: Well why? I mean, that's what I can't figure out.
CI: To be popular on the radio, its like...I don't know what that takes! If I knew exactly, I'd be...
MF: Would you do just what it would take? You wouldn't would you?
CI: No. If I didn't like it. I don't know, maybe if I knew exactly...you know, "Chris, now here it is written out for you. If you do this, you'll have a huge hit." I don't know, maybe I would do that. But the reality is you never know and if you don't like something and you don't know that its going to be a hit, why do it? My feeling is, if I do the stuff that I like, consistently, I can keep making more fans, and keep the ones I've got. If I keep making good records that I like, people will say "I like Chris Isaak, I heard his music I keep buying the records, he doesn't let me down". I mean I can make a living off of that. If I have one big hit and the album is lousy and every song is different because I keep searching for this week's trend, maybe I'll make some money one year, and three years later I'll be out of business.
MF: What has it been like being a minor selling act on a major label?
CI: Its been pretty good because I've only been around here (Warner Brothers) for two albums, but now they've signed me for another one. Lenny Waronker, the President of this outfit came to me before the first album was even out of the gate and he said "Look, if it takes four or five albums, don't change your style trying to find a hit. Do your stuff and we'll stick with you." To hear that from the President of the company was strange because you're supposed to hear "Come on get something the kids want", you know? But that's a cartoon. People at record companies are like anyplace else. You find some jerks and you find some cool people. Luckily at Warner Brothers I've met a lot of people who aren't at all interested in screwing with my style and who like what I do. I have a lot of fans at my own company.
MF: How many days are you spending on the road?
CI: I've been out since April. Somebody else is picking up my mail, you know? We've played in Europe at outdoor festivals of fifty thousand people- not all there to see me of course.
MF: How's the reception in Europe?
CI: Really good. Particularly in France where they think somehow I'm related to Jerry Lewis or something. We had 1500 people show up at this gig. We got done and packed up our stuff and I stood around and talked with some friends and record people who were inside, for an hour and we went out front. It was a busy street and I thought it was a bus stop. Everbody's crowded out there in front of the building and I walk out with my guitar and I get in the middle of the street and somebody screams and all these people were out there waiting around to see us! That doesn't happen here. We did great in Canada too and Holland.
MF: Are you too "White" for America today?
CI: Maybe I am. I'll tell you this. I'm very very White. Very middle class. There are people that everybody always makes fun of like Pat Boone. I love Pat Boone! I think Pat Boone sang on "Sugar Moon"- he hits these big notes. Really rich, and he's got this swinging band behind him. I wish to God I'd done the work he's done. He's a classic. Maybe that shows where I'm from. He was made for these white suburb type people and that's where I'm from.
MF: But wait, you're coming on a little rougher edged- a lot rougher edged than that!
CI: Well I like a lot of other things too. I like Country. The charts today are very influenced by Soul and Funk and Rhythm and Blues. Its a Black influence and that's all right. I mean Bo Diddley. I'll vote for him for God, but a lot of the music I like is a combination of that and Country and Western, you know, The Everly Brothers. The Beatles had kind of a Carl Perkins feel and Elvis had Country music. And you listen to the pop charts today, and where's the country influence?
MF: Its almost segregated now.
CI: Pop is kind of like Funk, Rhythm and Blues or somebody White doing it with a techno or White sounding voice, but with those grooves.
MF: How have the Thompson Twins gigs gone?
CI: They went good.
MF: How were the audiences?
CL: Well behaved. Thompson Twins audiences are always well behaved. We played like forty one dates with them. Its been good. The audiences are pretty young. They're dressed nice and they're willing to listen. And the Thompson Twins have been really nice to us. People say "why are you with them, their music is so different." But I'll tell you, they've been.. they gave us a full sound on the board. You know a lot of bands when they find out you're opening for them they'll take 20 percent of your sound down. They've been really straight with us.
MF: Well I guess they have less to fear since your sound is so different from theirs.
CI: (sarcastically) Well we do :"Doctor Doctor" (a Thompson Twins hit)- a totally different way....
MF: How did you get on The Johnny Carson Show? From everything I've ever heard, he hates Rock and Roll.
CL: Well you'll notice he didn't talk to me afterwards, and while we were playing, I looked over and he was flipping me the bird. He and Ed McMahon. And that's scary.
MF: Is that (being on Carson) like Elvis Presley on The Tommy Dorsey or Milton Berle Show?
CI: I thought that was kind of strange myself. I think they had some people in the office who really liked my record and they kept hounding the talent people and we got on there.
MF: You mean it was really as clean cut as that? It wasn't like someone knew somebody and maneuvered you on?
CI: No they contacted me. It was a really strange show, because just before I went on, I lost a filling and later on I kept thinking about Buddy Holly on The Ed Sullivan Show- he got in a fight and lost a tooth. So I lost a filling. The day before, every time I'd breath deep to sing it was like a pain on the nerve and just before I went on I was chewing this gum and I felt this metal and its all this silver and then it really hurt like hell. So being cheap and all, I tried to save the silver. So as I'm putting it into my bag I reach in and slice my finger on a razor blade and its not a big cut but its bleeding like crazy. So I go out to play and there's blood all over me. And after I play, a stage hand comes up to me and says "That was great! The think with the blood was great!" Like its part of my act!
MF: Was it hard going out and doing two songs cold?
CI: Its a little scary and very easy. Its spooky because one mistake, and you don't have any time to come back. Its not like a basketball game. Its like a fifty thousand dollar free throw. You do it or you don't. When its done you're ready to go out to dinner. No shower is needed.
MF: Did you have a feeling doing the show, that being exposed to so many people in a mainstream audience in one night- that those two numbers would change your career overnight?
CI: No. I figured that basically it would help me get in touch with a lot of my high school friends who I havn't seen in a long time. I was right about that. People called and said "I saw you". It gives a big kick to your parents and your relatives. And the fans you already have think "Well now ticket prices are going to go up", or something. But it doesn't really change things that much.
MF: Did you think you could "break out" from that show like Elvis or Buddy Holly did after appearing on Sullivan?
CI: No. I don't know what it takes to break out into the mainstream, but I know what it takes to stay employed so that's what I set my goal on, and that's been basically that I make good albums.
MF: Your songs are filled with sadness and angst. Yet your bio characterizes you as a pretty happy guy with a stable relationship. Where does that stuff come from?
CI: From me. I see things in two parts. One is entertaining. I don't take that part too seriously. Interviews, publicity, having your picture taken, doing T.V. shows. That's entertainment. Its part of the business. Its fun, sometimes its work, but I can't take it seriously. The music I take seriously. It will be around long after the T.V. shows and the other stuff are gone. They're not meant to make a big statement. So I try to say what is really on my mind. I write pretty late at night and you're pretty much all alone...I talked to Roy Orbison and I asked him what time he wrote his stuff. He said 2 or 3 in the morning.
MF: So your songs relate to the feelings you get, but they don't necessarily relate to your personal life.
CI: Well actually it does. My personal life has been in some ways pretty rough. Like "This Love Will Last", a lot of people have that feeling about somebody. "Back On Your Side" from the first album, I thought thats a real standard feeling for people to have. You break up with somebody and then the minute someone begins to talk about you, its like "Oh yea, its a good thing you broke up with her she was no good". "Shut up"! You know you try to help your friend out and you get hit because there's so much love still there. That was one I hoped I could get to Ricky Nelson to do.
MF: Where would you like your career to be in two years?
CI: If I kept my band together and did three more albums of good work- that would be something I'd be really proud of.
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