# ********Question for 1

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Posted by Zadok [Zadok] on November 29, 1999 at 11:05:20 {DGglKT6Uj2drpa5PWFPAsmfOGWFvn6}:

In Reply to: *******Question for 1 posted by COMF on November 29, 1999 at 09:08:01:

> You are being incredibly dense. I'd like to think it is by choice, but as this conversation continues the evidence is beginning to shift in the other direction.

After reading your insult above, and your (lack of) evidence below, it's becoming clear to me that your ability to reason is severely inhibited by emotion (perhaps anger?). I have tried to be polite; please extend the same courtesy to me.

> Here it is for you, as simply as I can put it:

> 1. The WBTS claims that they are God's only channel of communication in modern times.

> 2. The only basis for this claim is their contention that, in 1919, Jesus as the returned "master" examined all religions ("slaves") and then chose the WBTS to be "appointed over all his belongings."

Please provide quotes from the Watchtower to establish exactly what claims you are referring to.

> 3. They claim that this choosing was due to their teaching pure truth, in contrast with the teachings of other religions in the year 1919, when Jesus supposedly made his choice.

Not at all. Up until 1919, the Bible Students had shown their desire to break free from false worship, or "Babylonian captivity," by exposing false teachings such as hellfire torment, purgatory, Trinity, and immortality of the human soul. It was this desire, which was noticeably absent from other religions, that was favorable in Jehovah's eyes. Not only did they not claim to be entirely free of Babylonish teachings by 1919, but, as recorded in the May 15, 1951 Watchtower, "from 1919 on they came to a realization of their spiritual condition. They appealed for some divine restorative remedy. Their appeal was well worded by Jeremiah who foretold the captivity of spiritual Israel: 'Heal me, O Jehovah, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise. Behold, they say unto me, Where is the word of Jehovah? let it come now. As for me, I have not hastened from being a shepherd after thee.' (Jer. 17:14-16, AS)"

> 4. The facts show that they were not "free of Babylonish false teachings"

Yes, and in the quotes I provided, they themselves admit this.

> although they have often claimed in their literature that they were, at that time, in 1919, free of false teachings.

I am not aware of any such claims. The quotes I've provided here, and in my previous posts, bely your claim, and you haven't produced any evidence to suggest otherwise.

> 5. The extent of their adherence to what are now considered "false teachings" shows that they were every bit as tainted as any of the other religions of that time. There is no discernable basis for anyone to conclude that Jesus chose them "because they alone were teaching the truth about him."

See response to point 3.

> 6. Therefore, they are not what they claim to be: God's sole channel of communication in modern times.

> They are, instead, liars and slanderers of God, making a mockery of him with their hundreds of failed prophecies and scandalizing him by blaming him for the deaths of their deluded victims.

Where have they lied? Where have they slandered God? Where are these "hundreds of failed prophecies?" And where have they blamed God "for the deaths of their deluded victims?" Please provide specific evidence of this. I will hold you to every one of these claims.

> > This is nothing more than your opinion. While you are entitled to your opinion, why do you dogmatically state it as fact?

> This is nothing more than your opinion. While you are entitled to your opinion, why do you dogmatically state it as fact?

Touché.

> It's the entire argument. They are not God's spokesmen. Their own tale of how it happened is wrong. They acknowledge that? Great. We can dissolve the organization, liquidate the assets, and begin distributing them to the victims and survivors of their unholy reign.

Who says that "their own tale of how it happended is wrong" and who says that "they acknowledge that?"

> By the way, that stuff in 1997 Watchtower is just damage control after the fact. It was put there because the truth began to be told on the internet and they had to do something to cover themselves. That's why they're ordering folks like you to stay off the internet.

Ah, Internet "damage control." Of course, the same explanations have been available for decades prior to the Internet's existence.

Zadok

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