# ******Disfellowshipped=Judas?

[ HOURGLASS2 OUTPOST ] [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ FAQ ]

Posted by Joseph Malik [JosephMalik] on November 27, 1999 at 06:18:36 {nwG7wj0NI.wtN58YgBC6kwPNhmZ1io}:

In Reply to: *****Disfellowshipped=Judas? posted by Alan on November 26, 1999 at 15:29:58:

They ate the passover then Judas left then they did the bread and wine of the covenant.

Matt 26, Mark 14:21; John 13:27-30

Alan,

Oh really? Where does it say that? According to the reference you gave above in Matt we have this:

25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said. 26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

Matthew does NOT have Judas leaving before the bread and wine was passed. In fact he was clearly present. There is no break in this continuity. Judas was also present according to Mark's account notice:

20 And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.
21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born. 22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

The twelve were still there, dipping in the bowl together when the emblems were seved up. How do such verses prove your point that he was gone?

Now look carefully at John's work:

26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Judas did leave earlier than the rest but after the bread and wine were passed not before. Do you see the bread and wine passed anywhere in John's gospel? Can you prove your chronology? No, then where is your proof? You do not have any for John covered events that took place after the bread and wine were passed. And this question as to who would betray Him came up three of four times during this meal and not just once. Our Lord was trying to reach Judas to prevent him from commiting this sin. He could have turned around and was not yet guilty of it. So what is the basis for excluding him? Did you know any of this? They even asked different questions of our Lord each time. They were really getting concerned and it bothered them all. In any event please explain how the references you used prove your point. You still did not answer the question. As to the next point.

>>I don't have to answer it. The bible does. Revelation says that 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

You cannot answer it is more like it. And I knew that you could not. Your reference to the Revelation does not answer it either. If it does then how? What difference does this verse make as to who took the bread and wine at the last passover? And just who were these twelve apostles of the Lamb. Not Matthias for our Lord did not choose him did he? Our Lord chose Paul, personally not Matthias. He became the 12th apostle of the Lamb and he was not even at that last passover. So being there or not being there makes no difference does it. You miss the point entirely just as the Watchtower does.
Joseph

- Beyond the Watchtower

Follow Ups:

Post a Followup

Name:
E-Mail:

Subject: *******Disfellowshipped=Judas?

Comments:

Optional Link URL:
Link Title:
Optional Image URL:

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ HOURGLASS2 OUTPOST ] [ FAQ ]