# *****Oneglove Guess what???

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Posted by AF [AF] on November 25, 1999 at 00:00:56 {yaNwUlwC5c1EwaxRomAMdaOt1gg/Zk}:

In Reply to: ****Oneglove Guess what??? posted by DaJahVeu on November 24, 1999 at 13:41:56:

: The fact that you exist proves God's existance. That was easy.

You give yourself far too much credit. If the God of the Bible exists, then explain why he created the incredible suffering by prey animals that has gone on for hundreds of millions of years. Explain the existence of "arms races" between predators and prey that have occurred many times.

: Now, if you evolved surely there is one instance of a species changing form to become your species.

Species by definition don't change form very much. When a population of animals that can interbreed changes enough that it does not or can no longer interbreed with another population, it has by definition become a new species.

An example of such speciation in a relatively new population is the classic group of "Darwin's finches" of the Galapagos Islands. They're all still finches, but clearly derived from a single ancestral stock. The many groups no longer interbreed, they look different, they act different and they fill different ecological niches.

An example of an older group are various species of insects in the Hawaiian Islands. Some groups are clearly derived from an old ancestral stock, but today cannot interbreed even if they wanted to. They certainly have gone further along the path of speciation than "Darwin's finches".

An example of the complex but factual nature of speciation over a long period of time is seen in human evolution. Various fossils show that by four million years ago there existed several apish species that habitually walked on two legs. These "apes" had brains about twice the size of chimps and half the size of modern humans. By about two million years ago there existed Homo erectus which had a body amazingly similar to but noticeably more robust than that of modern humans. An 11-12 year old boy of this species was discovered in Africa in 1984, with the skull and some 40% of the skeleton intact. The brain was about 3/4 the size of that of modern humans and the shape of the skull was completely out of bounds for a modern human. The fossil record contains plenty of examples of human skulls and skeletons gradually evolving in fits and starts towards the modern condition.

What more could anyone ask from a fossil record that is extremely spotty? Nothing in it contradicts the basic notions of evolution, but plenty in it contradicts traditional notions of creation.

: Think now please, this had to have happen not once but millions of times for you to have evolved into what you are.

And?

: I am telling you, and I can prove it, it is impossible for one species to change forms.

By all means, present your proof.

AF

Follow Ups:

- ******Oneglove Guess what??? DaJahVeu 07:37:21 11/25/99 (1)
  - *******Oneglove Guess what??? Cygnus 08:09:14 11/25/99 (0)
- ******Oneglove Guess what??? truthseeker 03:32:36 11/25/99 (1)
  - *******Oneglove Guess what??? Cygnus 08:04:31 11/25/99 (0)

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