# *Oneglove Guess what???

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Posted by Tom [Zachary] on November 25, 1999 at 00:20:51 {yaNwUlwC5cp97koDwT8kPaEpA0ijdc}:

In Reply to: Oneglove Guess what??? posted by DaJahVeu on November 24, 1999 at 09:56:10:

DaJahVeu

I understand your viewpoint, but I’ve found that the harder you try to hold on to the concept of distinct Genesis “kinds” with correspondingly sharp distinctions between individual species the more slippery and elusive it becomes.

Take whales for example. There are roughly 32 species of dolphin that are obviously very closely related, some to the degree that the average person can’t tell the difference. (e.g. bottle nosed dolphin Tursiops truncatus and common dolphin Delphinus delphis ) We would have no trouble at all calling most of these the same “kind” even though they are different species.

However the term "kind" starts to stretch when we look at some of the other related species. The beluga whale and porpoise are obviously related to the dolphin, but not as closely related as members of the family Delphinidae are to each other. Are all three the same kind? If not, why not? If yes, then to be consistent we would also have to acknowledge the relationship of other more closely related lesser toothed whales such as the pilot whale and the killer whale. But if we acknowledge that the lesser toothed whales are all related to each other in various degrees, why stop there? Why not acknowledge that the lesser toothed whales are related to larger toothed whales like the pygmy and dwarf sperm whale and cachalot?

So then, are all toothed whales the same “kind?” If yes, then again, why stop there? DNA analysis of the sperm whale shows that it is just as closely related to baleen whales at it is to other toothed whales. If not, what boundary can we draw that would not be arbitrary and indefensible? Do we say that all dolphins are the same kind and everything else must be one or the other of some other kinds? Remember that the killer whale and pilot whale are technically dolphins while the beluga whale and porpoise which resemble the common dolphin much more closely are not.

The problem with whales (and birds and fish and a great many other orders of creatures) is that on one hand, it is impossible to draw any kind of dividing line separating the species into one “kind” or another “kind” that makes any sense, because no matter how we draw the line there will be species that are right on the border. On the other hand though, if we acknowledge that an entire group of animals like whales, are the same kind then the term looses a lot of its meaning because we would be saying in effect that creatures as dissimilar in size, appearance, design, diet and behavior as the 100 foot long blue whale and the 4 foot long porpoise represent variation within a “kind.” It would be similar to saying that all birds, from the humming bird on up to the ostrich are the same "kind," or that all fish from the common guppy on up to the great white shark are the same "kind." We would be admitting that they could have had a common ancestor which is not so very different an idea than that of evolution itself.

Tom

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- **Oneglove Guess what??? Cygnus 08:18:04 11/25/99 (0)

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