# *Evolution Phase II

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Posted by barJonah [barJonah] on November 25, 1999 at 15:20:46 {yaNwUlwC5cciGsuY5KW2s3Or3XCK4s}:

In Reply to: Evolution Phase II posted by Amazing on November 25, 1999 at 14:09:58:

> Wait a minute! Some said that history cannot be observed or repeated. Someone else said that mathematics cannot be applied to the spontaneous development of life. Let's make some clarifications here.

No, you wait a minute! AF actually said "history never repeats", and I can't find anyone saying "history cannot be observed" (or imagine anyone saying anything so nosensical). Really, if you cannot be bothered to quote someone correctly, then why should we take the rest of your post seriously?

> History does repeat itself ...

Er... no it doesn't. Got an example?

> We do have means today to record data and events for furute analysis. We can study theories and hypothesis based on evidence collected to date and postulate forward. Future generations can study the results and compare these to the theories and postulations to arrive at conclusions. Also, new instrumentation and technological development may allow for greatly improved collection of historical evidence. This may allow humanity to arrive at a better understanding of our past and where we are headed. Whether the theory of evolution as we understand it today will hold up to the test of time reamins to be seen.

You have it backwards. We only know what to observe in the future when we have a theory to test (by making predictions). Suppose man had already been observing the way light passing the sun is bent by its gravity before Einstein came along. Then that would simply have been data used to help form his theory - it couldn't have been used as a test. We actually have to invent new ways of disproving theories (i.e. new observations).

> As to applied mathematics, it is important to remember that the theory of evolution does not state that suddenly some little ameoba awakened one day to a rock song and jumped out of the primordial soup to announce 'here I am World! I want to grow up to be a human!'

Well done. But stating the obvious will not buy you some extra credibility.

> Evolution requires that the very first building blocks of life develope before the next progressive step in the long chain of events can take place.

Marvellous. Could we be getting somewhere?

> These building blocks are mostly chemical in nature, such as ammino acids and various simple proteins. These can be currently observed and measured. Chemical changes can be mathematically predicted to occur at certain repeatable intervals. Given enough repetitions in certain chemical reactions, steady changes will take place. Microbiologists and chemists can determine the mathematical probabilities that over a given time that certain changes will become permanent.

There are several competing theories as to what conditions prevailed 4 billion years ago. You certainly can't 'predict' something that happened in the past. The best you can do is make an informed guess.

> We do this all the time with more complex chemicals. We can, at sea level, using distilled water, measuring the water volume, and apply a certain steady level of heat for a certain amount of time predict when the water will change from a static cool liquid to a dynamic boiling state. We can equally use the same mathematical process to study the change to a gaseous state, called steam.

Er... I think you just said the same thing twice. And what volume has to do with boiing point is a mystery to me.

> The question is not so much whether evolutionary events can take place, given enough time and the right chemical conditions; but the question that need to be asked first is whether enough time has elapsed from singularity to the present to allow for the current theory of evolutionary processes to have taken place. Presently, given the relatively young life of our universe, known required basic chemical changes suggests that evolution has just not had enough time to accomplish what we see today.

What is the universe's 'youth' relative to? Do you know of anything else besides a mythical being which is billions of years old? Evolution clearly has had enough time, because a) we are here, and b) the overwhelming evidence is that we evolved.

> Other types of theories or evolutionary processes then need to be developed to explain how we arrived here so rapidly. One of those legitimate theories is that an intelligent designer commenced the process that spawned our existence. Some call this creation by God. This is the theory I presently suscribe to.

Why is this theory 'legitimate'. It's certainly not scientific, since it cannot be disproved. And supposing it is 'true', you have only pushed back the question further. Who created the 'intelligent designer'? If you want to subscribe to that theory, then fine, that's up to you. But don't try to peddle it as truth with some vague references to some vague chemical processes you appear to know nothing about.

> Simply Amazing

What's simply amazing to me is why people go to the bother of posting this tripe...

bJ

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Follow Ups:

- **Evolution Phase II Milky 17:50:03 11/25/99 (0)
- **Evolution Phase II Amazing 16:57:24 11/25/99 (6)
  - ***Evolution Phase II J.H. 23:52:24 11/25/99 (5)
    - ****Evolution Phase II Amazing 00:58:21 11/26/99 (4)
      - *****Evolution Phase II J.H. 07:03:36 11/26/99 (3)
        - ******Evolution Phase II Amazing 10:51:28 11/26/99 (2)
          - *******Evolution Phase II J.H. 03:33:47 11/27/99 (0)
          - *******Evolution Phase II Amazing 11:02:00 11/26/99 (0)

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