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Posted by CPiolo [CPiolo] on November 22, 1999 at 15:45:50 {k/.KBikg62HljYPCrMsQfhe3reEu4M}:

Friend:

Friend:

I am sorry you feel I haven’t, in your opinion, formed my thoughts well enough. While this may sometimes be true for I am only human, it seems a poor excuse to end our conversation. Conversation is an opportunity for all participants to learn and grow. Show me where I’ve erred and, if I feel your right, I’ll let you know. You’ll have done me a favor. Conversing with me may, at the very least, help me to learn to form my thoughts more coherently. You have the opportunity to help me in that way as well.

It saddens me also because, up to this point, you were the first Jehovah Witness who would discuss these things with me and I found it encouraging. Unfortunately, our conversation ended on a sour note. It is unfortunate as well because this has been the norm with me in trying sincerely to understand and discuss matters with JWs without emotions running high or someone losing their temper. I realize that when discussing one’s personal beliefs, it is very difficult not to become engaged emotionally. For that very reason, I cannot discuss any of these things with my wife. I saw my conversation with you as an opportunity.

I will answer your short reply in the hope that our communication will continue. If you feel, for some reason, that you are unable to continue, I hold you no ill will and wish you all the best.

F
:The issue of abortion is as simple as this: If the majority did not like it they would do something about it. That it remains tells us something about the majority. That is societal acceptance/tolerance.

We may have a difference of opinion here as to what acceptance and tolerance. It may be a matter of semantics. Here are Webster’s definitions:

ac·cept

Pronunciation: ik-'sept, ak- also ek-
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French accepter, from Latin acceptare, frequentative of accipere to receive, from
ad- + capere to take -- more at HEAVE
Date: 14th century
transitive senses
1 a : to receive willingly <accept a gift> b : to be able or designed to take or hold (something applied or added) <a surface that will not accept ink>
2 : to give admittance or approval to <accept her as one of the group>
3 a : to endure without protest or reaction <accept poor living conditions> b : to regard as proper, normal, or inevitable <the idea is widely accepted> c : to recognize as true : BELIEVE <refused to accept the explanation>
4 a : to make a favorable response to <accept an offer> b : to agree to undertake (a responsibility) <accept a job>
5 : to assume an obligation to pay; also : to take in payment <we don't accept personal checks>
6 : to receive (a legislative report) officially
intransitive senses : to receive favorably something offered -- usually used with of

tol·er·ate

Pronunciation: 'tä-l&-"rAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -at·ed; -at·ing
Etymology: Latin toleratus, pp. of tolerare to endure, put up with; akin to Old English tholian to bear,
Latin tollere to lift up, latus carried (suppletive past participle of ferre), Greek tlEnai to bear
Date: 1531
1 : to exhibit physiological tolerance for (as a drug)
2 a : to suffer to be or to be done without prohibition, hindrance, or contradiction b : to put up with synonym see BEAR

When I spoke of acceptance, I meant it as in 2 : to give admittance or approval to, whereas I feel you meant acceptance as in 3 a : to endure without protest or reaction. As I said semantics. In such case, we were both correct because as in the case of abortion many endure its existence without giving their approval to the practice.

As for tolerance it could be a synonym for your use of acceptance and hence you write acceptance/tolerance.

So I will rephrase my statement about JWs. Many outside the JW community put up with or bear with the existence of JW and/or many of their practices without giving their approval to such existence and/or practices. You are a JW who puts up with the blood issue without giving it your approval. You said you don’t teach or promote the idea and you may even be trying to change the organization’s policy but your continued association with the organization demonstrates that you put up with it.

CP
:They may admit that individuals may hold divergent views, but from their own literature (quoted below), they do not accept or tolerate even the formation of such views:

Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock

, 1991 Edition
Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates.

(Friend’s emphasis)

F
:Your own citation(s) disputes your statement.

:At this point I see no need in continuing. When you better formulate your views then I will be more than willing to continue.

Here you abruptly ended our communication. Again I feel you are in error. The above statement, only one of many, doesn’t fully support my statement, but it doesn’t dispute it.

So I will try another line of reasoning. How does one formulate a view or opinion? First you must be exposed to argument and/or evidence. This must come from at least two distinct points of view and/or the evidence be both that supporting and that refuting the issue about which you are trying to formulate your view or opinion. After exposure to the evidence and/or points of view, etc., what does one do? They must weigh what they have discovered. How do they weigh what they have discovered? They think about it and using their best abilities and judgement come to their own independent conclusion – as right or wrong as it may be. If they fail to weigh or think about the issue and accept one point of view or only the evidence supporting or refuting the issue, they haven’t formulated an opinion. They have merely chosen someone else’s as their own.

Avoid Independent Thinking
(Watchtower, January 15, 1983, page 22)

Here the Watchtower tells us to avoid independent thinking. If we do so, we cannot weigh anything we have been presented in order to formulate an opinion or view. If you know of another way to formulate an opinion or view, I would be glad to hear about it.

In peace,

CPiolo

Follow Ups:

- *For Friend mntzion 22:07:12 11/22/99 (0)
- *For Friend Friend 19:22:02 11/22/99 (7)
  - **For Friend Lobo 20:56:47 11/22/99 (6)
    - ***For Friend Friend 21:17:08 11/22/99 (5)
      - ****For Friend WorldlyWitness 18:47:06 11/23/99 (0)
      - ****For Friend disko 06:12:05 11/23/99 (0)
      - ****For Friend Yea right 03:30:43 11/23/99 (0)
      - ****For Friend Yea right 03:25:03 11/23/99 (0)
      - ****For Friend good point 03:12:17 11/23/99 (0)

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