# ******AP and AF

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Posted by Friend [Friend] on November 18, 1999 at 09:30:06 {KEdmzBXaT6rRIg7iiOekOgnjR4Br/g}:

In Reply to: *****AP and AF posted by AF on November 18, 1999 at 07:52:42:

AF

I believe the first portion of your response can be reduced to the following exchange:

> : I do not buy your conclusions about what happened regarding those dates mentioned. Pure and simple it was a matter of forcing history to a modern day conviction.

> That is called lying.

I will explain why “forcing history” is not necessarily a lie. Lying represents deception. In this case of forcing history the writers admitted that secular history does not agree with them. They are in essence telling readers that we are forcing history away from what historians say to what we believe really happened. Regardless of whether all the arguments of historians are presented the picture is plain enough, that secular history has been ignored (at least somewhat) and contradicted. At that point there is an onus upon the reader to decide whether that stated is worthy of acceptance, further investigation or ignoring.

Whether that above represents intellectual self-deception is another question entirely and one I don’t have time to hash out right now. I will just say that I do not agree with what was done.

> What do you think about people like Greg Stafford, who come into the JW religion late in the game and try to pretend that what you and I know doesn’t exist? And when they claim that when you and I tell the truth, we’re lying?

I do not think Greg has represented that our claimed (actually real) impressions and/or experiences about 1975 represent a lie. Otherwise I consider his view of 1975 inexperienced. He will grow and learn just like everyone else though. I think he is genuine in his efforts.

> I don’t know why, but yeah, it matters to me.

I am glad you said that. I planted my questions intentionally to draw out your feelings in that regard. I feel the same towards you. It matters to me what you think, about other issues and me. I can only explain that as friendship.

Our best friends are those that can and do speak with dead bang honesty toward us and our actions. (Proverbs 18:24; 27:6) If I did not hold you in high regard and a friend I would not waste time sharing my views on your actions with you. On this issue of TravisJ45-II have shared my honest impressions as a friend.

I do not consider you a deliberate liar nor were my impressions intending to indicate that strength of concern. My comments were drawn more from the strength and validity of your claims more so than ill intentions. I just found your explanations hard to conclude, that is all. Does that make you a deliberate liar? I don’t think so. Does that make you a deliberate liar in my mind? No. Such a conclusion would be horribly presumptuous. That does not mean that actions, though perhaps misunderstood, do not deserve an apology. If our actions sufficiently disturb other people’s sensibilities then we apologize. The extent that we consider other people’s sensibilities is the extent that we respect other peoples’ views.

Your
Friend

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