# ****AP and AF

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Posted by Friend [Friend] on November 17, 1999 at 21:38:39 {xx2d.1sWpQhxaL3hj3H2OgnjR4Br/g}:

In Reply to: ***AP and AF posted by AF on November 17, 1999 at 20:36:25:

AF

> But I also am certain that the Society has engaged in deliberate deception.

No one here has argued that that certainty on your part is without strong merit. That is unless you count FRED and ABK, which I doubt.

> Do you really think that these men were completely incompetent on this one point? I agree that they were incompetent, but they then compounded that into a deliberate lie by failing to clear up what they had done and why they had done it.

Yes, they were completely incompetent on that one point and some others. They were do blinded by the convictions regarding the chronological significance of 1914 to the point that they felt forcing history was the answer. I kid you not, that is exactly what was going on. I believe your personal discussions with Bethel insiders has born that same image to you. You know good and well that to this day there are people at Bethel holding that the forced beginning chronology leading to 1914 will one day be justified. Some honestly hold that opinion. However foolish is sounds to you, you know that to be true.

As for their 607/6 versus 608/7 dating, they will hold that one or the other was a mistake.

I do not buy your conclusions about what happened regarding those dates mentioned. Pure and simple it was a matter of forcing history to a modern day conviction.

I do not wish to comment too much about Fred Franz. He could talk a squirrel down from his tree, but he really believed what he said. You are correct about the 1975 business. That was his doing all the way. In the beginning it was not intended to use that date as a motivational tool. Problem was, Fred was so excited about it that his enthusiasm spread as if contagious. Before anyone realized how out of hand it was, things had gone too far, way too far.

> Are you saying that you think I'm lying when I said I couldn't remember the 2nd post?

What I am saying is that what I think does not matter one iota to what is important, that of discussing issues. Does it really matter to you whether I think you are honest or not? Does it really matter? Well, I do not think you were completely on the level with your representations regarding TravisJ45-II. So what? As for reasons, I have already given them.

> You don't even have a shred of evidence except that you seem to think I'm too smart to forget stuff.

No, I do not contend that you are too smart to forget "stuff." I think you are too smart to forget one of only two posts made by your most recent rival at H2O. I think you are too smart to forget the second of two posts considering the innuendo therein. Your continued discounting of the initial and unmistakable value of that second post only enhances my view. Now let me ask you a question, should any of that opinion of mine matter one bit to you? Does anyone really care if I believe you were completely on the level all along regarding that post? I don’t think so. I don’t even take the view that serious myself. I only have expressed it because I felt it honorable considering that I likewise freely expressed my impressions of your counterpart’s actions.

> Having been accused of lying by GS and now you, on no more evidence than that you don't think I could forget something that I explained why I thought it was trivial, I don't owe anyone any apologies.

Hey, if that is your standard then live by it. And don’t expect more from anyone else. Considering the disrespect you have for other people’s views on quite subjective issues, I’d say that your selfish standard here fits. Sometimes we apologize out of concern for other people’s sensitivities just to move on with living. But that is just what some of us do. Its how we live our lives.

I am tired. I do not want to continue this. If I have offended you I apologize. That was not my intention. You asked for my view and you got it. Friends should be able to ask and receive, give and take. My intent is to spur people on toward discussion of issues and away from personalities. I consider you my friend and I make allowance for perceived faults.

I think I have already addressed those citations with my words above.

Friend

Follow Ups:

- *****AP and AF AF 07:52:42 11/18/99 (1)
  - ******AP and AF Friend 09:30:06 11/18/99 (0)

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