# Final Post -- Maybe

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Posted by ros4GB [ros] on November 15, 1999 at 18:20:39 {AS5l1tybL6dmhhsMJ.h27/SY5I9NtE}:

Dear Readers,

This post was delayed until Ros had time to settle in from her trip to Spain and allow us to have several discussions before proceeding. Many of you may have incorrectly understood her post about my giving a 'farewell' message. Also, before I proceed, please note that this letter to you is also intended to disembarrass Ros from this entire event. Please stay with me as I walk you through this matter.

To help you understand my methods and how this venture developed I need you to ask yourself some questions and put yourself in my situation. What would you do if you were on the Governing Body and arrived at the realization that you no longer accepted the organization as Jehovah's channel of communication? Would you just stand up, be counted, and resign? Many of you expressed that, and I did consider this possibility among several other options. But what if you believed that you might have an opportunity to do a little more before you resigned or died? Maybe you could explore some level of reform? Perhaps you could expose matters that would get serious attention by all of the membership. Would it help to disseminate useful expository information to the average Witness? What would you do? I am not asking you to agree with my explanation or reasoning, rather just please keep these questions in mind, and try to understand as I continue.

In earlier posts I stated that I never intended to get into any public forum. I contacted Beacon for information and private discussion only. Ros was the one who responded, and she was gracious enough to accommodate me. The concept of making posts on H20 was developed after she and I communicated several times and resulted from her suggestion. While Ros remained skeptical about me, I did provide some level of information and indication regarding my credibility that allowed her to take a calculated risk. In no way should she have her good name or personal credibility affected because of this event.

My purpose in making posts on H20 was to try and communicate with active and former Jehovah's Witnesses who may have concerns they would like help with. I stated that I only wanted to be an equal among you. I never stated that I was any leader, savior, or bastion of hope. In fact, I specifically stated that I extricated myself from that concept. I did comment that I may be able to do some good, but I cautioned it with the fact that only one Governing Body member has a slim chance at best of promoting seriously needed reforms. If you are in doubt, please go back and carefully read my earlier postings.

While I did set up contact methods to secure and conceal my identity, I gave no thought to, nor felt any concern over, establishing my credibility. It was never my intention to go about flashing GB credentials as though I were some kind of five-star general. Recently, I revealed to Ros how I accomplished my contact with her so she could understand why and how I could take on this venture. Also, to help her understand how I am able to communicate without being detected at Bethel. After I proceeded to send out posts through Ros, the idea occurred to me that this could be a wonderful and powerful way to accomplish some good before I resign or finish my earthly course. This seemed like an opportunity that should be explored. Unless I did, I would never know if there were merit in the possibility.

Never did I expect the H20 environment to have such a variety of individuals with so many differing views, experiences, and attitudes. Some of you are very considerate, while others are not. Some are quite scholarly. Others seem to have difficulty understanding matters, such as the case where one person thought I worshiped Thomas Jefferson simply because I quoted his eloquent wording about tyranny over the mind. My mistake was to try and please everyone. Bill Cosby once said that he was not really sure what the Key to success was, but he knew well the Key to failure. He said that we always fail miserably if we try to please everyone. So, I humbly admit my mistake here and deservedly so.

Though I never intended to concretely establish my credibility, and that was agreed upon from the beginning with Ros, when the demands increased that I do, I consented to private questions through Ros. Once that was completed, she would have let you know the results. Then one of the H20 Moderators posted his concern about my permitting such results to be posted publicly. So, I wavered in my decision given the legitimate concerns he expressed. I then decided to only establish my credibility privately through Ros, though I did so with extreme caution.

If the invitation from Ray Franz to contact him had been extended to me privately through Ros, instead of openly via M733 on this public forum, I could have considered ways of how to respond to him within the constraints of my present situation. I would definitely have accepted questions anonymously from him, which I could then answer to establish my credibility with him. In fact, it was I who took the first step and gave the green light to Ros nearly two weeks prior, to go ahead and allow anonymous questions from anyone, including Ray.

We were already in the process of doing all this privately before M733 appeared. While I cannot judge the motives of M733, I do wonder if he/she wants to be seen as important or be given special recognition by trying to prove something here. While nice words were spoken about respect for confidentially and privacy regarding my credibility, in fact, the whole episode with M733 resulted in the opposite. I was very disappointed when this happened because now it would be much more difficult to follow up with any plan of covert communication with Ray that would still allow me to deny direct or indirect contact with him if the question should arise here. If M733 had allowed me to continue responding to questions in progress privately through Ros, I could and would have established my credibility anonymously with Ray.

The difficulty with some of the questions posed is that they can also serve to identify me. For example, if I am asked a question about some issue or document that the whole Governing Body is reported to have or know about, then the questioner may have selected the material or a particular issue in order to set a trap for a fake GB. Obviously, a real GB would know that an issue or document was not known by or dealt with by the whole Governing Body. So, not only would a real GB give the right answers about the issue, but would also note that the question was incorrect about all GB members knowing about it. That would provide double assurance that the GB person is genuine. Ostensibly, that makes a lot of sense, and I understand it all too well.

Now consider this from my perspective. A trap question can also expose my identity. If I give details about a specific report or issue and show that I am very familiar with it, then a problem can arise. If the issue or report asked about were actually not known by all the Governing Body, but only a select few, then by my being conversant and familiar with it, I have just given a serious clue to the questioner about my identity. The questioner could narrow down my identity among 2 or 3 GB members. Using other skillful questions, my exact identity could be easily revealed. The question I had to ask myself is: Why is this person, whom I do not know, asking a question that they know perfectly well will lead to identifying me? What could be their motive in this when I explicitly stated that my identity must remain secret? Now ask yourself this: Could there be Bethelites who act as 'troubleshooters' for the Society? Could they befriend former Witnesses to keep tabs as to what is going on, and then inform the Society? Just think about that possible complication.

Now lets look at what factually did happen. If I intend to maintain my identity a secret and try to certify my credibility, then I am walking a tight rope in that sort of environment. Many questions posed to me contained some of those traps. I answered correctly where I could. In one case I deliberately did not identify the trap to see what the person's motives were. Sure enough, the person seemed very pleased with himself over setting a trap. In that situation, I was then able to go back and give the right answers, and I challenged the person with additional information I have which they should know about. To my knowledge the person has not been able to respond to me.

When M733's posting appeared just before Ros went on vacation, we did not have time to really deal with this until she returned. I did feel ill at the whole affair, as it seemed to me to get out of hand. I took a risk in going public in this type of forum, but I did allow it to go too far, and so I decided to reconsider the venture before making another effort. Ros can confirm that I was in this process of leaving H20 prior to M733 making this public.

I can understand why Ray was puzzled about my comments and confused about my approach to this venture. He seemingly does not understand these Internet forums and neither did I until I got into the middle of this one. For example, in M733's posting, Ray took exception to my posting an Open Letter to the Governing Body, stating his confusion over how I could avoid questions from fellow Governing Body members about being on the Internet, but at the same time not want to admit contact with him. As I explained above, I have told Ros how I insulated myself from direct contact with the Internet, but I had not at the time of posting my Open Letter, thought of a way to insulate myself from Ray and still answer his questions. As stated, that method of insulation was finally suggested in late October. If Ray had contacted me through Ros I could have explained what I was doing and how it made sense from my perspective.

In his post through M733 he expects me to act without 'hesitation' to go contact and report to him because I am considering resigning, yet he did not try to first understand my methods before making a public statement. I am a different person than Ray. I think and feel differently about some matters. I do not agree that I should without 'hesitation' do things the way he thinks. He is no more my leader or mentor than I am his. And because my initial purpose did not include establishing my credibility, I saw no need to have him involved or try to communicate with him. I was reserving that for later. Again, as it turned out, it was I who took the first step through Ros to allow anonymous contact with him.

Let's examine some more facts: In addition to my previous invitations for anonymous private contact I sent along a message to Ray before Ros left on vacation. He has not responded to me. When Ros returned, I reminded her that I gave the signal to accept anonymous questions from Ray earlier in October. I continued that offer after she returned. The reason that we are not moving forward is not because of me. I have not heard anymore from Ray or M733. I have gone back and given the correct answers to Ros regarding such questions posed to me. She can verify that I have done this. I have avoided answers that could identify me personally. Also, one of the questions appeared to be of the type that Ray could have asked. It was generic, requiring that all the Governing Body know about it, and it was not a trap question, so would not lend itself to identifying me. I also answered that one correctly to Ros. She can verify this as well.

In this, am I then saying that I have established my credibility? To the extent that I have correctly responded to those question which steer clear of my identity, I believe that I have done so. Make no mistake, the gauntlet was cast before me, I accepted it, repeated my intent to continue, but the challengers became silent. It has now been about a week, and I have heard nothing from them. So there is nothing more I can do. I am sorry if any of you cannot understand my extreme caution and feel you must render a personal attack. That is your right. If you still consider me to be an impostor, that is also your right. However, please keep in mind why I used the illustration about Schindler's list, so that everyone would get the hint about how careful I need to be.

Early on I told Ros that I will not post again on H20. Since then I have modified my decision to some extent. I do plan to continue some kind of exploratory effort to study how I can communicate to the outside world, information that will be useful to them. I am not running away from any of this issue whatsoever. I am merely falling back and regrouping before charging ahead again. This episode was just the first battle. The war has just started. After regrouping, I shall return.

After this posting, Ros will not be acting as my transmitter anymore. We discussed this, and it seems she has many other things she needs to accomplish in her life besides being my personal post office. She has been most gracious, honest and kind to me. Also, it seems advisable that I start making direct postings so that I can more quickly respond to you. If I return to H20 in the future, I will first contact its administrators and determine how they best wish me to proceed. If I choose to continue with this forum or select another media to accomplish what I have in mind remains to be determined.

There is so much more I need and want to say here. I was hoping to address more of your questions and make some personal comments to several whom I have grown to appreciate. I decided at this juncture to shorten my posting rather than risk writing a book to you. Before concluding, however, I do invite all of you to review a post that hit the nail on the head as to my ultimate goal. Please go and read this one in particular: Posted by Dublover [LovesDubs] on November 04, 1999, titled: GB-I Want To Believe.

I do apologize to you for any disturbance or upset I may have caused to any of you. I apologize if any felt that I promised some level of hope that I could work with the Governing Body to effect policy changes that need to be made. I apologize for getting into this venture and letting go it as far as it did without considering the effect of my credibility, or lack thereof, may have had on you. I used poor judgment and indiscretion in this regard. I have been humbled, as I deserve to be. I ask your forgiveness for any trouble caused.

Finally, it was suggested by some that I must be a troubled person looking for attention. As stated above and in other posts, my goal was for private discussion and no public attention was considered. The venture changed course and developed to what we have now. Nonetheless, I am not looking for attention nor am I a mentally ill person. One of you suggested that I write too well for a person who is likely over 75 years of age. The thought expressed is that after age 75 a person's mental capacity diminishes and they lose the ability to be articulate. May I remind you that Ray is now in his later 70s, yet his post through M733 suggests to me that he has not lost his ability to write clearly, expressing complex thoughts, and with such exuberant language. Therefore, I may be old, but I am not senile yet. So you young folks should not underestimate me.

As for troubled personalities, I think that many of Jehovah's Witnesses and former Witnesses could say that they are in some way personally troubled to some extent. Many of you seem to be vying for some kind of attention. Many of you are carrying serious burdens as a result of your current or past association with Jehovah's Witnesses. Some of you are so embittered with the Society that your posts indicate an almost violent vengeful flavor. This troubles me because in a sense the Society that you so adamantly disavow still controls you, and you may not realize it. I am still troubled as I try and decide how to proceed given my situation and disaffection with the organization and the issues I need to work though and decide upon.

I hope that I have concluded this to your satisfaction. Realistically, I do not expect that to be the case given that it is impossible to please everyone all the time. If you are not pleased with this post, there is nothing more I can or will do at this time. The opportunity for the present is now lost to carry out more with this venture.

I give you my thanks for your time. I have learned a lot from you. This has been an enriching and growing experience for me and I hope that many, if not most, of you benefited positively as well.

Christian love,

Follow Ups:

- *Final Post -- Maybe Alan 14:47:51 11/16/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Michael 12:07:09 11/16/99 (2)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Petro 12:40:38 11/16/99 (1)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe Michael 09:33:23 11/17/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Cygnus 12:02:11 11/16/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe SEVEREINSULTGB! 12:01:20 11/16/99 (4)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Seeker 13:08:51 11/16/99 (0)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Cygnus 12:28:10 11/16/99 (2)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe Uninhibited 17:31:26 11/16/99 (1)
      - ****Final Post -- Maybe Cygnus 07:20:27 11/17/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Zeke 11:02:01 11/16/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Zeke 11:00:34 11/16/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Farkel 10:39:04 11/16/99 (1)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Julie 15:14:15 11/16/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Farkel 10:38:46 11/16/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe practicus 10:26:54 11/16/99 (1)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Tantalus 18:13:49 11/16/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Duncan 08:25:17 11/16/99 (1)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Amazing 09:44:29 11/16/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Undecided 07:38:42 11/16/99 (4)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Amazing 07:50:42 11/16/99 (3)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe OneGlove 12:07:23 11/16/99 (0)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe LostAgain 09:06:15 11/16/99 (0)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe Undecided 08:00:59 11/16/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe COMF 05:38:10 11/16/99 (1)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Amazing 07:55:58 11/16/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe staceyb 05:03:44 11/16/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe passingby 21:39:56 11/15/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Dublover 20:56:56 11/15/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Petro 20:40:48 11/15/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Questioner 20:33:52 11/15/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Rick 20:28:48 11/15/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe OneGlove 19:44:25 11/15/99 (29)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Amazing 10:28:01 11/16/99 (1)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe OneGlove 12:03:10 11/16/99 (0)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Antique 06:11:49 11/16/99 (2)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe OneGlove 06:25:39 11/16/99 (1)
      - ****Final Post -- Maybe Antique 13:59:42 11/16/99 (0)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe COMF 05:41:58 11/16/99 (2)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe OneGlove 05:57:06 11/16/99 (1)
      - ****Final Post -- Maybe COMF 16:58:34 11/16/99 (0)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Snowball 22:37:01 11/15/99 (1)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe OneGlove 05:41:20 11/16/99 (0)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe proplog2 21:19:57 11/15/99 (5)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe OneGlove 05:37:45 11/16/99 (4)
      - ****Final Post -- Maybe proplog2 06:27:23 11/16/99 (3)
        - *****Final Post -- Maybe OneGlove 06:34:41 11/16/99 (2)
          - ******Final Post -- Maybe proplog2 10:42:19 11/16/99 (1)
            - *******Final Post -- Maybe OneGlove 11:31:00 11/16/99 (0)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Rick 20:53:21 11/15/99 (3)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe OneGlove 21:08:08 11/15/99 (2)
      - ****Final Post -- Maybe Moddy105 22:18:18 11/15/99 (1)
        - *****Final Post -- Maybe OneGlove 05:26:32 11/16/99 (0)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe jimmyjames 20:43:31 11/15/99 (0)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Randall Watters 20:31:00 11/15/99 (4)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe OneGlove 21:01:03 11/15/99 (3)
      - ****Final Post -- Maybe JF 05:09:30 11/16/99 (2)
        - *****Final Post -- Maybe OneGlove 05:30:27 11/16/99 (1)
          - ******Final Post -- Maybe Amazing 10:35:25 11/16/99 (0)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Observer 20:16:34 11/15/99 (0)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Lobo 20:09:35 11/15/99 (0)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe d'art 20:09:12 11/15/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe To Ros 19:40:29 11/15/99 (1)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe ros 12:57:39 11/16/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Rugged Cowboy 19:26:07 11/15/99 (6)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Petro 07:18:05 11/16/99 (1)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe Rugged Cowboy 15:47:16 11/16/99 (0)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Antique 05:58:32 11/16/99 (2)
    - ***Final Post -- Maybe Rugged Cowboy 08:35:46 11/16/99 (1)
      - ****Final Post -- Maybe Petro 09:01:47 11/16/99 (0)
  - **Final Post -- Maybe Snowball 22:10:43 11/15/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe CrossRoads 19:24:23 11/15/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Enoch 19:10:12 11/15/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe d'art 19:02:20 11/15/99 (0)
- *Final Post -- Maybe Seeker 18:48:29 11/15/99 (0)

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