Posted by More Flight [proplog2] on November 10, 1999 at 01:29:08 {AAJB0ph6mY/CPYT8orz2lJ4aSwVkqg}:
In Reply to: To Flee or not to Flee posted by Shelby on November 09, 1999 at 18:36:40:
There are two things that have to be identified in the
prophesy at Matt: 24:15. (1.) What is the "disgusting
thing"? (2.) What is the Holy Place where the
"disgusting thing" stands as a signal for Christians to
take flight?
The parallel gospel accounts make it easy to identify the
first century fulfillment. According to Luke the
"disgusting thing" was a military structure ie. the Roman
army with its power to utterly destroy fortified cities.
Luke also identifies Jerusalem as the "holy place". Luke
21:20,21.
The problem is for readers of that prophecy today to
exercise "discernment" as admonished by Jesus so they can
react appropriately to the command to flee. The
Watchtower has consistently claimed that the "disgusting
thing" is the United Nations and that the "holy place" is
the realm of false religion and in particular the most
reprehensible part which they label "Christendom".
It is not enough to have an intuition about some current
event and then declare it a fulfillment of prophecy. An
event consists of "actors" and their "actions". Therefore
a qualifying event needs to meet two criteria. (1.) The
players have to be "significant". This means that if we
have several candidates that could fill the role
described by prophecy, then we ought to pick the one that
is most "noteworthy" to the average person living at the
time. This can be accomplished by asking the question -
Could the average person upon seeing the description of
the entity see the connection? (2.) The other criteria is
that the actions of the "actors" must mirror the type and
sequence of actions described in the prophecies that are
applicable. It is only when these two criteria are met
that we can proceed to the speculative part which is to
ascertain the manner in which the unfulfilled actions on
the part of the actors will play out.
If, upon examining an interpretation, we find that the
suggested "actor" doesn't fit the pattern in the prophesy
it is safe to conclude that the interpretation is
erroneous. So, then let's look at the Watchtower
interpretation and see if it meets the criteria mentioned
above.
First of all they identify the League/United Nations as
the actor/entity that matches the role of "disgusting
thing that causes desolation." Now I am going to show
why the League/United Nations doesn't fit that role. The
Watchtower has mentioned many times that the
League/United Nations was the creation of the United
States which is the King of the South in the final part
of Daniel the 11th chapter. In complete contradiction to
the Watchtower claim is the Bible's statement at Daniel
11:31. "And THEY (King of the North) will certainly put
in place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation"
The cross reference in the NWT indicates this is the
event Jesus was referring to at Luke 21:20.
I can't think of a more contradictory situation. Let me
repeat it so that it sinks in.
This is basically what the Watchtower writers have said -
Your Will Be Done (1958) Page 205
" the Anglo-American dual world power promoted the
establishment of a modern world idol, the League of
Nations. The British war premier, Lloyd George, had had
thoughts of such an international alliance of nations;
and the American war president, T. Woodrow Wilson,
included it in his Fourteen Points which he submitted for
a peace settlement. Although acting president, he
emboldened himself to attend the Paris Peace Conference
in order to push through his Points, including the
international pact, the League of Nations."
On the one hand the Watchtower says correctly that the League/United
Nations was formed primarily with the encouragement of the United
States. But that fact automatically disqualifies the United Nations from
being the "disgusting thing". Why? Because as Daniel 11:31 indicates it
is the King of the North that puts in place the disgusting thing.
If you look at Daniel 11:31 again you will see that this "disgusting thing" is
put in place by an Army of the King of the North. "And there will be arms
that will stand up, proceeding from WHO? proceeding from the "King of
the North" and they (Army sponsored by King of North) will put in place the
disgusting thing that causes desolation.
It is clear that the Watchtower has missed the mark on this. They have
failed to identify the right "actor" because they failed to match the
appropriate action. Do you see this? The League of Nations can't be the
Disgusting thing because it was not set up by means of the Army of the
King of the North. In fact the Soviet Union was so far from the process of
setting up the League of Nations that it didn't join until Sept 17 1934 which
was about 20 years after it was founded.
Now, then since it is impossible for the League/United Nations to be the
"disgusting thing" it is necessary to adjust any and all of the other
applications in Revelation where the Watchtower makes the claim that the
United Nations is significant. Is this hard to do? Not at all.
They make the claim that the Wild Beast that was, is not yet still exists is
the League/United Nations. But the Soviet Union WAS. The Soviet Union
IS NOT. And judging from the way things are going it is going to return
SOON. This is easier to understand when you realize that the Beast at
Revelation 13 goes through the exact transformation. One of the heads is
slaughtered but then it is healed. The Watchtower claims this was Britain
in World War I. Here is where the criteria of significance comes into play.
Ask any school boy in Great Britain when there country was destroyed?
They will look at you like you're crazy. Ask the same question of any
school boy in Moscow and they will readily tell you that the Soviet Union
ceased to exist in December 1991.
There is much more to this. I refer you to the Web-Page below if you want
more information on this.
So then what is the Holy Place where the Military Force of the USSR/King
Of the North enters? Revelation says that the Wild Beast gets tired of the
Harlot and attacks her along with a confederacy of Ten Kings that haven't
received a Kingdom but yet gain power by surrendering their power to the
Wild Beast. These 10 kings can't picture ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THE
EARTH as the Watchtower claims. Why? Because if ALL THE
KINGDOMS OF THE EARTH is what was meant by 10 Kings this would
include Kings who HAD received kingship at some point in their history.
Greece, Rome, Egypt definitely had received kingship and are still distinct
political entities. More than likely there remains some political
maneuvering where Russia could become a confederacy of regions. It is
interesting to watch Yugoslavia requesting membership in the existing
union of Russia and Belarus. Perhaps Russia may break down further into
10 super regions (this has been proposed by certain politicians in Russia).
The last struggle in Daniel is the struggle between the King of the North
and the King of the South. The last struggle in Revelation is between the
Beast and Babylon the Great. The Watchtower has repeatedly made the
claim that Babylon the Great is some World Empire of False Religion.
Please read Revelation 18 and you will see that it is described as a
wealthy hegemon that has rulership over all other rulers. There is no
doubt that there is one Super Power on the Earth today and that is the
United States. Read Revelation 18 and you will see that it is the Richest
entity on the Earth. So rich that ALL those having ships at sea are rich
due to her shameless luxury.
How could the United States be considered a Holy Place? It certainly is
a place where the armies of the Soviet Union ought not to stand. The
United States was founded as a City On A Hill. It was to be the exemplar
to all nations. It's constitution has been copied by many other countries in
the world. It's people are the most Religious in the Christian World. It is
also home to over 1,000,000 of God's People. It is the land that has been
the launching pad for the world wide work of JW's. It is not hard to see why
if this land were destroyed that it would affect the "continual burnt offering"
of Jehovah's People. Just as God's people in Jerusalem had to flee so will
God's people flee the United States when her destruction looks imminent.
While most people in the United States will have to dig in for the battle,
Jehovah's Witnesses by virtue of their World Wide Brotherhood could
easily be accommodated by their brothers in Central and South America.
Do you think it is just a coincidence that there are now more JW's in
Central and South America than there are in the US and Canada.
There is much more to be said on this subject. For now I think this should
be sufficient.