Posted by Bibleman [Bibleman] on November 10, 1999 at 00:46:32 {AAJB0ph6mYMRXA6xmpscslyACFuF8c}:
In Reply to: To Flee or not to Flee posted by Shelby on November 09, 1999 at 18:36:40:
Hi Shelby,
I read Friend's reply.
But you must consider what the Bible actually says to understand the true meaning of the "great tribulation."
The first point you should realize is that this great tribulation is a ONE-TIME EVENT! It only happens once. Matthew 24:21 "for there will be a great tribulation such as HAS NOT OCCURRED SINCE THE WORLD'S BEGINNING until now, no, nor will occur again."
Now that is specific. This is a one-time event. And it fulfills Daniels prophecy as well. But as Friend mentioned, this is focussed on "Judea." The original prophecy was about "that nation" and the Jews are the ones called the holy ones.
Note again how this event was to be unlike any other and would only happen once: Daniel 12:1 "And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time YOUR PEOPLE will escape, every one written in the book."
This prophecy, the one-time event can only happen at the time of Christ's Second Coming. All the signs given in Matthew and Mark occur during the "last generation" including this "great tribulation."
The second most important point to realize about this "great tribulation" is besides being focused on "Judea" it is OVER before the Messiah ever arrives and the sign of the son of man appears in heaven. This is KEY and is missed by most.
Matthew 24:29 clearly states: "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light...Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven."
So you see, the great tribulation is not Armageddon. It is a tribulation against "Judea" that is over and done with before the Messiah even arrives.
So the JWs don't understand this. But you can. What is the "great tribulation"? Who is "Judea"?
Judea is simply a reference to the "holy ones", that is the area where the exile natural Jews would be. In modern times the greatest concentration of Jews setteled in Warsaw, Poland. And the "great tribulation" was the HOLOCAUST.
So when it talks about running, it literally meant the Jews having to flee to the mountains and out of the cities from the Nazis. It was literally difficult for a woman with a child to flee, obviously since her child would be a burden to her fleeing and might give away her hiding place. And this one-time event was to be so bad that if the "days [of WWII] were not cut short, no FLESH would be saved." That simply means if Hitler won the war he would have exterminated all the Jews on the planet. They would have ceased to exist as a nation.
At the same time, though, it implies that less would be saved than killed. And that is precisely the case. 2/3rds of the Jews vanished during the HOLOCAUST. So that is what this is talking about.
And, of course, after it was over, the Jews actually got reinstated in Palestine. In Daniel, after the "trampling of the holy ones" during the HOLOCAUST was over, there was to be a period of 45 years from the time the Jews returned to Palestine until the Messiah arrived. The trampling would end a period o 1290 days and the Messiah would arrive after 1335 days, that is 45 years after 1947. And that's when the "sign of the Son of man" was supposed to appear in the clouds to announce the Messiah's Second Coming.
This 45-year period is the period of "darkness of the sun and moon" that is mentioned. And it represents spiritual darkness of the Messiah (who comes in the flesh) and the moon (the anointed remnant of JWs) who would not be expecting him in the flesh.
So you see how it works. First the great tribulation (the HOLOCAUST) and then after that, a period of darkness for 45 years from 1947 to 1992.
Then the Messiah arrives.
But you can't have this understanding unless you have the correct chronology. We now have direct evidence that the correct date for the fall of Jerusalem was 529BCE. How so?
Well forget about the astronomical text data. Jesus was supposed to appear 483 years after the beginning of rebuilding of Jerusalem. So Jerusalem began to be rebuilt when? In the 1st of Cyrus. Thus if you follow the Bible, it shows that the 1st of Cyrus, based upon Jesus coming in 29CE, had to have occurred in 455BCE. The fall of Jerusalem was 74 years earlier, which was 529BCE (455+74=529BCE). The "7 times" indicate the gentile times would be a period of 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem. Therefore, using the corrected date, what date do you get? You're right. 1992!
And that's how it works.
Now as a word of caution, the Bible does mention another "great tribulation" associated with the great crowd in Revelation. This is a different "great tribulation" which occurs after the Messiah arrives. Sometimes these are confused.
At any rate, don't listen to anybody telling you anything about 70CE since that was not an event that shocked the world as the Bible indicates it must! And this event must happen during the last days. And that event is totally OVER long before the Messiah comes on the scene in kingdom power. That event was to happen to "Judea" and it involved actual fleeing! That is, actual fleeing of the Jews to the mountains away from Warsaw, Poland which became atypical modern-day "Judea."
Part of this "great tribulation" also occurred with spritual Israel as well, that is, JWs, since they were specifically singled out to wear the "purple triangle."
And that's your answer.
Again, please note. Do NOT listen to anyone who claims this is an event that happens again and again. Do NOT listen to anyone who says it is Armageddon since it is not, it is OVER before the Messiah comes. And don't listen to anybody who claims Jerusalem fell in 607BCE or 587BCE because they don't have the proof of that now. Besides that, the Bible requires Jerusalem to fall in 529BCE as do proven astronomical texts.
READ YOUR BIBLE! Pay attention to the details! Don't listen to rhetoric. People who don't have the correct chronology can't get this right and they can only give you rhetoric and vague application.
The "great tribulation" was the HOLOCAUST. It was over before the Messiah arrived in 1992, before the end of that generation from 1914 which ended in 1994.
The "great tribulation" is a one-time-only event that never happened before. The HOLOCAUST is called the "worst event in human history."
The Bible is true, absolutely. But you must accept what it says.
The "great tribulation" was the HOLOCAUST. And that's the correct fulfillment.
Know this.
Cheers,
Bibleman