Posted by Another Text [Bibleman] on November 09, 1999 at 17:11:11 {4Hfg918T5gMSSTtTA17sslyACFuF8c}:
Hello FaithfulJW,
Here is a borderline text consideration for you to consider as to whether or not Jesus will return in the flesh. It can be interpreted more than one way but at the same time narrows the possibilities.
The references are the following text in 1 John:
2:28 "So now, little children, remain in union with him, that when he is made manifest we may have freeness of speech and not be ashamed away from him at his presence. 3:2 Beloved ones, now we are children of God, but as yet it has not been made manifest what we shall be. We do know that whenever he is made manifest we shall be like him, because we shall see him just as he is."
Okay, what do these passages tell us? It depends.
If one thinks Jesus will come in spirit form and then raise his anointed ones at his "manifestation" during his presence, then it could be interpreted that they will be in spirit form and thus will see Jesus just as he is because they will be in spirit form as well just as he is.
But what about the idea that Jesus comes in the imperfect flesh at the Second Coming in order to fulfill the prophetic parable of the prodigal son?
Well this scripture works as well in this instance since it would confirm Jesus would be visible in the flesh and in the same form as his anointed ones and thus they would see him just as he would would be, in the imperfect flesh the same as they would be.
Now here's the catch. This verse works for Jesus coming either in the spirit or the flesh and his disciples being either in the spirit or the flesh, but the timing of his manifestation is a key point since this is to occur during this "presence."
Here's this scripture fits in with the Imperfect Second Coming Theory:
The first resurrection is in the flesh. It must be since Jesus is to rule with the Bride Class ON THE EARTH for the 1000 years and then later during Judgment Day before they actually go to Heaven.
We know this because they all get their incorruptible bodies at the same time. 1 Thessalonians 4:15 says:
"For this is what we tell you by Jehovah's word, tha we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord."
So this merely explains that when Jesus is manifest at his presence, he will resurrect the anointed ones who have died just before the millennium. But they are raised in the flesh first. Thus they will join those already alive at the time the Messiah appears. So there will be a period when they will all be together in the flesh, as they must be in order to "rule as princes in the earth". Then, AFTERWARD.... after the 1000 years are over and after Judgment Day which follows, then they will all, "together be changed."
But if this is the correct understanding, then at the time of the Messiah's manifestation during his presence, all the anointed ones will be in the flesh. And in the imperfect flesh at that since the resurrection is first in the imperfect flesh. That is, those resurrected are resurrected within the bodies of already living anointed ones, one per body, as 1 Corinthians 15:38 says: "but God gives it a body, just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds, its own body....It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption... It is sown in a physical body, it is raised up in a spiritual body... Nervertheless, the FIRST is, not which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual."
So these resurrected ones are to be sown in a phyical body and a corrupt physical body at that. And this is why all will be "changed together" since all will be in the imperfect flesh for a while first before getting their incorruptible spiritual bodies after the millennium and Judgment Day.
If this is the correct understanding, then the texts in 1 John reflect that at the time of Christ's manifestation during his presence just before the millennium, they all will be in the imperfect flesh, one way or the other, and Jesus himself will be just like them, in the imperfect flesh, and thus they will see him just as he is.
Now while some might interpret this individual scripture out of context to mean the anointed ones will be in the same form as Jesus when he appears since he will resurrect them in spirit form, when you consider other scriptures which require that Jesus and the 144,000 first be resurrected in the flesh to serve on the earth for 1000 years first, then this scripture proves that Jesus must come in the imperfect flesh in order to be in the same form as those who see him when he manifests himself at his presence.
So now, the only way one can deny that Jesus isn't coming in the imperfect flesh is to also prove scripturally that the first resurrection is not first in the imperfect flesh and that Jesus will not rule in the flesh during the millennium. Of course, that can't be done because we know that those who are part of the first resurrection will have to serve as "princes in the earth."
At any rate, this would be a perfectly compatible scripture to show not only the first resurrection is in the impefect flesh, but since Jesus will also be in the same form as his anointed at the time of his presence and they will "see him as he actually is" since they will be in the same form, he must be in the imperfect flesh. Which is perfectly compatible with Jesus coming and fulfilling the prophetic parable of being the PRODIGAL SON.
So it all works out PERFECTLY. Lots of hurdles to jump over for those who think Jesus doesn't rule on th earth.
We need TALK!
Cheers,
Bibleman
Anyone, please comment and ask questions if you don't understand the basics of the Second Coming.