# KH Loans Redux

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Posted by Farkel [Keflar] on November 12, 1999 at 12:17:30 {CkRQXOxAaIjc7.1TE24IvhKqcjatLo}:

In the "KH Question" thread I asked a number of question about Kingdom Hall financing, ownership and disposition. The responses bring up even more questions, and it would be important to dig even deeper in this matter, IMHO.

Friend said:

"There are such cases where the Society has in essence said, Okay, here is the money you need, pay it back as best you can and when you can. In some areas of the world there is little doubt about ability to repay, so much so that in some cases it is not even inquired about. Instead needed funds are just donated, as they are available. Usually those circumstances involve very underdeveloped areas and buildings are not of the sort that people, let say in England, would be accustomed to. But, for the area and society the structure is usually a step ahead. Larger branches like the United States and Canada regularly send funds for such projects."

In a nutshell Friend is stating that the society donates funds in poor areas of the world. I'm not doubting what he says at all, and he stated he is going to be away from the board for at least several days. That being the case, I cannot challenge him to be more specific until he able to respond.

On the otherhand, all other responses indicated that at the very least, the society is selective about who gets donated money for Kingdom Halls, and who doesn't; who gets a measure of debt relief, and who doesn't. If this is true, then we must ask "why is it selective, and what is its criteria for being selective?"

Sonny said:

"The 9/99 OKM insert "True worship is Expanding in Eastern Europe" p.3 par.3

"....a portion of the Society Kingdom Hall Fund is now being used to provide loans to congregations in lands where a very urgent need exists for more Kingdom Halls but where there are limited resources and severe economic problems."

This indicates that the society is very interested in expansion in Eastern Europe. Eastern Europe has great potential to expand economically if the political situation could maintain stability for an expanded period.

"1" said (while he was serving his sentence at Bethel):

"i was sitting at his table one day and asked him where he worked, said KH loans- so i asked what would the society do if the bro can't pay the loan

"he said and i quote: "Put a forsale sign in the front"

Assuming that this incident involved a loan in the very stable USA, one has to wonder who makes these decisions? Does the society's loan policy fluctuate as a result of the society's financial situation at any given point? If the answer is "yes," then it seems to reason that the society is not as cash-heavy as some believe, or there are factors at work not involving the society's cash position. Or is there another reason that in one situation the society would force a repayment of a loan in a place like the USA, and give money away in (for example) Eastern Europe for Hall construction? We all know that Eastern Europe currently has a high growth rate in JWs, but is that the reason? Further down this thread is a statement from the WT that seems to contradict this assumption.

Amazing said:

"The Society no longer charges 3% interest, it is now much higher, about 6% or more."

Someone had earlier claimed that the society charges 3% interest on loans (I think it was Friend, but could be wrong) to "offset inflation." Since the USA has had a very low inflation for nearly 20 years, being something less than 3% annually, why would the society charge 6% or higher interest in the USA and other countries with low inflation if the reason for doing so was to "offset inflation?" If the society is indeed doing this (and even if they only charge 3%), is not that a direct violation of the Biblical injunction not to charge interest to brothers on loaned money. The Bible did NOT say, "however, you may add interest to offset loss in value of the money due to inflation," did it?

Jim Penton notes on page 230 (paperback) of "Apocalypse Delayed" that, "In later years, the Watchtower Society has become more bold in asking for contributions than it was in the past, and it has increased the price of its literature somewhat faster than the general rate of inflation in North America." Hmmmmmmmm.

Brad said:

"The congrgation could no longer afford the payments to the Society. A letter was written to the Society to ask for an extention or work out somekind of restructuring of the loan.

"I'll never forget the letter that came back. It simply said that if you can't afford the payments then sell the hall and find something to rent that you can afford. It was cold hard and unfeeling."

Once again, we have an example where a congregation was merely asking for temporary debt relief on money that was ALREADY LOANED in the very affluent USA, and the society took a stance totally different from what Friend has stated.

Here's the kicker, though. Notice how the society puts a favorable spin on a very sad situation:

--------------------

*** w92 8/15 24-5 Preaching in Maputo-Mozambique's Intriguing Capital! ***

Today, there are more than 50 congregations in and around Maputo city. However, there is not a single Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses to be found. Why is that so? Because of poor economic conditions, the congregations have not been able to build even though some have owned land for a number of years.

Yet, such obstacles do not hinder progress. At present there are well over 5,000 home Bible studies being conducted in the southern part of Mozambique. So great is the demand for studies that certain priorities must be set. If someone requests a study, it is usually taken for granted that he will attend all the congregation meetings.

One congregation located in a squatter area recently had 189 at the Sunday meetings even though there are only 71 publishers of the good news. This large group meets in the open air in the courtyard of a home. The area is screened off from public view by a corrugated iron and reed fence. Before each meeting, the area is swept clean, and a large proportion of the audience, including many adults, sit on reed mats on the ground. What rapt attention they pay to the program! Since many new ones do not have a copy of The Watchtower with which to follow the study, they learn to pay close attention during the reading of the paragraphs, and most hands are up in response to the questions that the conductor asks.

Another congregation of 59 publishers regularly has more than 140 in attendance. They normally meet on an open terrace. But during rainy weather, the congregation squeezes into the two rooms of a small apartment. The overflow from the audience spills into the hallway, the kitchen, and the balcony. Once again, one cannot help but notice the appreciation and attentiveness as everyone, including many youths, follow the program intently.

Nowhere is the potential for future growth in Mozambique more apparent than at assemblies. Recently a circuit assembly was held at the old bullfight arena in the city center. Can you imagine the surprise on the part of the approximately 3,000 publishers when more than 10,000 attended the sessions?

---------------------

Maputu is a town that has over 50 congregations, with at least one of them having nearly three times the attendance over the number of publishers. And notice this statement: "Nowhere is the potential for future growth in Mozambique more apparent than at assemblies."

It seems pretty obvious to anyone reading this that Maputu is a "high growth" area and certainly one that would be deserving of the society's money to provide at least ONE meeting place for over fifty congregations!

Could it be that the society feels that Maputu, Mozambique is just not a good "investment" for its real estate dollars? If this is the case, then it is indeed "all about money," and not about charity towards poorer areas who need help the most. It also indicates they must have very little confidence that Jehovah will protect them financially if they donate money to needy JWs who have little or no prospect of returning some or all of that money.

Why has the society showed far more concern for the financial needs of the Eastern Europoean brothers than the African brothers?

Penton also states on page 230 "Apocalypse Delayed," "The sale of literature is only one sourse of Watch Tower income. The society receives numberous direct contributions, money left in wills, and regular contributions from circuit, district, and other conventions. In the case of the latter, seldom to conventions in North America and other industrialized Western nations fail to send a certain amount of money to the society after the assemblies themselves have been paid for...Finally, the society has REGULARLY INVESTED MONEY IN STOCKS FOR SOME YEARS...Yet because most ordinary Witnesses still regard the stock markets as part of this 'doomed old world,' the society is very careful not to let the faithful know much about such financial activities."

Farkel, who still echos "Deep Throad", "If you want answers then follow the money"

Follow Ups:

- *KH Loans Redux madonna 17:57:00 11/26/99 (0)
- *KH Loans Redux Edwin 20:08:31 11/12/99 (1)
  - **KH Loans Redux Farkel 20:20:29 11/12/99 (0)
- *KH Loans Redux FRED HALL 13:10:29 11/12/99 (5)
  - **KH Loans Redux Julie 13:46:16 11/12/99 (4)
    - ***KH Loans Redux FRED HALL 14:00:16 11/12/99 (3)
      - ****KH Loans Redux Shamrock 20:37:59 11/12/99 (1)
        - *****KH Loans Redux 5GJW 10:20:01 11/13/99 (0)
      - ****KH Loans Redux spin 18:27:54 11/12/99 (0)

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