# *BIBLEMAN - IMPERFECT JESUS?

[ HOURGLASS2 OUTPOST ] [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ FAQ ]

Posted by Bibleman [Bibleman] on November 09, 1999 at 17:59:52 {4Hfg918T5gMSSTtTA17sslyACFuF8c}:

In Reply to: BIBLEMAN - IMPERFECT JESUS? posted by Amazing on November 09, 1999 at 15:59:52:

Hi Amazing...

Thanks for your reply. Here's response:

I understand your theory, but I have to disagree at this time. I can see the prodigal son parable, etc. equally applying to several possibilities:

Great. It doesn't matter how many scenarios you come up with as long as one of them support your own view. So my personal view is down pat for it applying to Jesus. Let's see what you've got.

1. A repentant Satan? Afterall, he would be an ideal one who squandered his inheritance to live a
debauched life of lies and making our lives miserable. What a statement that would make if Satan repented! (I personally would not make that application, but maybe some could.)

OH, CUTE! That works. Except the Bible says Satan is to be destroyed, so it doesn't work. So it's out. The premise works, a sinful son. But that doesn't apply to Satan who willfully disobeyed and has already been condemned. But I'll humor you since you've dismissed this idea yourself.

2. Repentant Israel, thus accounting for many of the restoration prophecies? (This possibility has more merit in my mind.)

Well that's interesting. Who is the older brother class? Problem.

3. Repentant Christians who come to know and have faith in Jesus and then leave him for a time, then return to following Jesus? (This is the position I currently hold to.)

That works! A whole class of sinful ones who repent and all given the "best robe" and a seal ring and a banquet which the older brother is not invited to. Interesting. I still like mine better, though. :> Mine isn't nullified just because you have a compatible alternative.

4. I cannot at this time accept any application to an imperfect Jesus. I understand now why you are making that application, but I find several problems with it.

That's okay. There are many other scriptures to consider. And even in the end if you are still undecided, at least you've gone through the process of looking at all the evidence. Nothing is lost.

A. If Jesus comes back again as an imperfect human, by that definition, must also become a sinner. Does he then require salvation?

No. The way it works is by (for lack of better word) ADOPTION. That is, Jesus simply adopts the (dead) body and identity of one of his imperfect followers to appear in the flesh. So he is separate from the fleshly body and person he adopts before this. That's how it works. And yes, that person whom he becomes requires salvation just as any imperfect one.

B. As an imperfect sinner, who pays for his sins?

This question is really not applicable per the above. But Jesus pays for the sins of the imperfect person whose body and personality he adopts. These are good questions.

C. Does he put faith in his own earlier perfect ransom and faith in himself in order to be saved from his sins upon his return?

In applicable but good question since you didn't fully understand the dynamics. Jesus simply adopts the body and identity of one of his "faithful" followers. It could have been any one of them. So Jesus just adopts the body of one of his followers who have proved faithful. It just happens to have been one who lived the life of the prodigal son. That's all.

D. What will be the benefit to his followers who now find themselves saddled with a sinful Jesus?

Jesus is NOT sinful himself, only the person whom he adopts the body and identity of AFTER that person repents. So this is not an issue. BUT, since you brought it up, while this person is in the sinful state, his followers in the eagle-class who see him in this dead state do "Beat themselves in lamnetation." So they do react to the pre-sinful Jesus. (This is going to get complex. :>)

Will it be assumed that a sinful Jesus somehow is more understanding of sinful nature?

YES! That is precisely it! Jesus himself did not experience the sinful flesh. But it is presumed that someone who actually experiences these things could be infinitely more empathetic Like a former cocaine addict will likely go that extra mile in helping a reforming drug addict because 1) They know how difficult it is and 2) They know it is possible to overcome it, finally. So that's exactly the implied reason. He comes first to experience perfect human life. But he can't himself know what it is like to be sinful, so he adopts the body and identity of one of his imperfect anointed ones. That way, he gains the KNOWLEDGE of imperfection that way. By adoption and "symbiosis"? Anyone can see the fundamental practicality of this.

Such understanding, while perhaps having emotional appeal, will not negate his followers from having to repent and put faith in Jesus and his earlier ransom. Nothing seems to be gained here.

Much is gained here. One, of course, is Jesus himself will have the imperfect experience. But then others will see the EXAMPLE of God's mercy for someone who repents. No one who has had a sinful past will shy away from reaching for God's mercy. And also, everybody will be able to relate to Jesus because he has experienced things just like them. They will KNOW he can understand what they've been through. I think it makes him more approachable and "down to earth" and would draw people who want God's repentence. In other words, if Jesus were an ex-drug addict, other drug addicts would say, "Hey, God is forgiving everything, I think I'll repent."

E. As stated in my earlier posts, all that is spoken of with respect to Jesus coming/returning has to do with Kingdom power, the final harvest, riding in Glory with the angels, engaging in final judgment, and shepherding the earth with an iron rod. Nothing in these scenes depicts Jesus as an imperfect sinner.

All that still works from a spiritual sense. You know the battle in heaven? It was invisible! All it was technically, though, was legal debate. Spirits weren't hurling laser blasters at each other. It was a court debate. So what is glorious in heaven is still glorious in heaven. And besides that, in the beginning Jesus does come as his glorious self since he was at God's right hand all this time before. So that didn't change his glorious coming or his glorious position as king. But that still doesn't stop him from taking up the imperfect body.

Or think of it this way. It's a temporary disguise to do his secret inspection! How could he inspect God's house if he was a glorious person walking around blinding everybody?

And then for the anointed ones, he is still glorious because they UNDERSTAND who he really is.
So it is still glorious. So what is "glorious" is heavenly and from a heavenly standpoint he is has a glorious and triumphant position. It is not the imperfect Jesus, however, who is referred to here, but the actual pre-fleshly Jesus. So there is no conflict. At any time this extremely glorious god and angel could take up a physical body, even an imperfect one. When he returns to the spirit world, he assumes his heavenly glory. So no problem. This is just TEMPORARY. To get a job done. He's got to do a dirty job so he has on his overalls to do it. When it is over, he resume his glorious heavenly state. No problem.

Perhaps if you could take some time to address my questions that would be helpful, and I will likewise take more time to review what you have written already. Thanks -- Simply Amazing

No problem, I am glad to answer them and I'm glad you asked. It is necessary to get everything understood properly to see how all the scriptures fit together. So I hope some misconceptions have been cleared up.

If I might step back to see the big picture again.
Jesus only had to be sacrificed once as a perfect man. In giving up his perfect human life and body for mankind, it may not have been technically possible or appropriate for him to materialize his own body again. But it was necessary for him to return in the FLESH to rule on the earth during the millennium. And why not? Certainly it makes more sense over 1000 years for him to be in person. After all, he came in person to his followers the first time. Why should the second time be anything less? But the logistics of doing that is problematic since he gave up his fleshly body. So how does he now return in the flesh? He simply borrows someone elses body. AND...while he's at it, why not someone who can add to his personality and identity with respect to emphathy toward mankind and in particular "sinners." Thus in this way, he gains something from his father he did not and could not have experienced before, and that was FORGIVENESS and MERCY. So in him now is all the FULLNESS by this means. So it kills to birds with the same stone. And its only TEMPORARY. And it's a great disguise and a great surprise!

And ultimately, no matter what. No matter if we can't understand it or if we would have done it differently if we were God... this was God's way to do it, and the Bible supports this position.

Cheers,
Bibleman

Follow Ups:

- **BIBLEMAN - IMPERFECT JESUS? Antique 04:44:01 11/10/99 (4)
  - ***BIBLEMAN - IMPERFECT JESUS? Bibleman 07:19:42 11/10/99 (3)
    - ****BIBLEMAN - IMPERFECT JESUS? Antique 13:55:30 11/10/99 (2)
      - *****BIBLEMAN - IMPERFECT JESUS? Bibleman 15:06:59 11/10/99 (1)
        - ******BIBLEMAN - IMPERFECT JESUS? Thanks/Antique 05:22:49 11/11/99 (0)
- **BIBLEMAN - IMPERFECT JESUS? Amazing 18:42:29 11/09/99 (1)
  - ***BIBLEMAN - IMPERFECT JESUS? Bibleman 19:47:08 11/09/99 (0)

Post a Followup

Name:
E-Mail:

Subject: **BIBLEMAN - IMPERFECT JESUS?

Comments:

Optional Link URL:
Link Title:
Optional Image URL:

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ HOURGLASS2 OUTPOST ] [ FAQ ]