Posted by Antique [Antique] on November 07, 1999 at 17:07:09 {zExURjw8QA6ii1RkHmng.lGYl4oc5Y}:
You said:
"Hi,
Let me interject here to give you some perspective on this. Let's forget about any claims right now of anyone. Let's just do a hypothetical.
When the Messiah comes, he comes and is "born" via the "eagle-winged" woman who remains in the wilderness. She is a secret, underground organization who has
known who the Messiah is even before he knew.
So HIS sheep are basically already gathered. Thus if he exposes himself it is likely to fulfill those who would reject him, so they can't say later they didn't reject the
Messiah when he came to them. So it like technically seals their death sentence. There is no appeal to for followers here.
But there is a doctrinal point that has to be accepted and that is basically 1) That the Messiah does come in the flesh as the Prodigal Son.
So that's the issue. If holy spirit and Bible knowledge can get you past old ideas into understanding that is the way the Messiah is to appear at the Second Coming.
Then, if you accept that, you might be led to the JIOR.
But if you reject the BIBLE, then it will prove you are not worthy of the kingdom. So this is really basically not to get someone to believe in any Messiah but to
prove that these persons are deserving of death because they don't believe the Bible.
So I don't think they realize that. They are simply sealing their fate and making sure Jehovah is not legally liable for not warning them ahead of time. In other words,
this is part of the "separation" process and they are proving just who they are, weeds or wheat.
The anointed JIOR who know they Messiah are already in attendance and don't need to be convinced of anything. These little technicalities have to be done to fulfill
the scriptures.
So in a way, sort of, this is working out their sentencing. It wasn't meant for them to be able to believe this, only to be condemned by their own disposition.
So really, the end of the world is here and this is just some loose ends to show how people might actually despise truth when it is presented to them. It's sort of like you know somebody is a crook and they're dealing drugs or bribing somebody, but you don't have proof of that. So you wire a witness and get them to talk about it on tape. Then you can use that tape in court.
That's sort of how it is. God knows their hearts and knows what is going on. But they may think in their own minds they are of a different sort. So they get exposed to the direct truth and reject it, and thus there is a record and actual act of rejection and therefore there is no debate when they're sentence is handed out.
That's how the sheep are separated from the goats.
The sheep accept the impossible from God's word, but the goats don't. They are too "logical" and they reject it. But that proves that they are goats.
So they are publicly sealing their own fates and they don't realize it. They are going to be saying: "I knew you when." And the Messiah is going to be saying: "I knew you not. Get away from me you workers of lawlessness!"
Sorry, but that has to be fulfilled too.
So don' worry about the nasayers. All you worry about is being sure you understand how the kingdom works. How the Millenniium works. Understand the Messiah must come in the flesh. Look at the parable of the Prodigal Son and understand that is about the Messiah. Then consider related scriptures. You're on a different path.
Remember, it's all about BIBLICAL! Not logic. No mere words.
Know this.
Cheers,
Bibleman"
Bibleman,
You say that it is not about logic, that it's Biblical, but if you have the right understanding then it is logical. My mind is very open to things, anything, including what most people say is "impossible" so maybe what you say doesn't apply to me. I can not disagree with you about the prodigal son. I think it fits. How can Jesus rule with justice if he doesn't know what it is like to be one of us in an imperfect state? So to me when I first read this it made sense to me and answered that question which no one could before.
You say that the JIOR know the Messiah and don't need to be convinced of anything. But that is because they already have been convinced. As you said they "know." Why can't I and others know? We have been seriously damaged by the Society and gave our faith over to Jehovah through their guidance and they hurt and injured us and now they are disfellowshiped from Jehovah and the Christ. Yet you now say we must do these things and accept these things that you are saying. And with less actually being there for us to see. No Hall, no GB, and not even you face to face. Nothing solid. Can you see why it might be hard to do without some real sign or something? You had a sign you said, and you saw many things over time. So of course you can be convinced as others like you that are aware of what they saw and now know.
With logic and proof through research, I found out that the WTS was false. It took time. Someone didn't just say I had to believe that the JW's were wrong. Since I had to be convinced that what I lived many years for was not true it seems sensible that I do not just believe you or anyone else with out logic and reason. Yet you say we need to just accept with no logic. I have no problem with accepting what the Bible says if it can be proved. The Bereans were told to make sure. I do not think any of us should do less than what the Bible teaches. That takes time and logic. It has to mean something, it has to be true and that means it is logical.
I personally believe that all the miracles that Christ preformed were of logic and knowledge of the universe and Jehovah, we just don't know what and how. But I know there is a logical explanation but we may not yet as a people be aware of the technique. If we took our knowledge of things today back 200 years or even less, we could perform all kinds of "magical" feats and "miracles." But technically they really wouldn't be. Not to us. But we could never make them understand so we would not explain in detail. But we could use them to convince ones of our power and our reliability or even go the other way and do evil deeds instead. Christ used them for righteousness. To help people accept him and Jehovah.
So there are different ways of looking at things but they do have to make sense and to do so they need to be logical, reasonable.
When you say I am on a different path, could you clarify that? I can take that a couple of ways.
Thanks .
As Always,
Antique