Posted by Julie [Julie] on November 07, 1999 at 09:57:52 {zExURjw8QAT.q0qzQJj2RyqclwWKXQ}:
In Reply to: **Especially For Rick posted by ProofPositive on November 06, 1999 at 17:53:50:
Hi ProofPositive,
Please know I have never been a JW, was Catholic all my life and pretty devout for the most part. Your comments are wonderfully helpful in helping me to re-understand why Christianity turns out to be not for me. Let's have a look.
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:You say, "Christian Arrogance"?
Yes and your subsequent comments confirm this.
:I am "arrogant" because I commend Rick for taking the proper course of "paying attention to the prophetic word," just as the Bible advises us at 2 Peter 1:19.
You are arrogant actually for presuming your view is right and none other could possibly be.
:I am "arrogant" because I rightfully defend Mr. Rick for his vigilance and determination to continue to look to God (and not YOU and your anti-religious, Bible hating, Bible criticizing constituents present on this board) for the real answers to the issues face by all Jehovah's Witnesses.
Actually Rick has avoided issues that were too ugly to address. Blatantly I might add so if he really is reform minded he needs to address this tendancy. Of course you may not be aware of this as you may not look at this board very often. As far as hating the bible is concerned, it's only a book, why would anyone hate it? I know I personally hate how people use it to justify bad behaviour and I think that if God wanted us to have an "instruction manual" he could have done much better. Why in the world would he utilize such an ambiguous and contradictory series of books?
:Man, all you guys did was JUMP SHIP...anybody can do that! That's the easy way out.
Could not the same be said then about all those who left the RCC back during the reformation? If not why not? If so then how do you justify yourself not belonging to the Original Church of Christ? (Bottom line question: Do you subscribe to the double standard logic or are you a heretic?)
:You don't get "brownie points" for that.
Good to know what you're really in it for.
:Moreover, is that what Jesus did? Did Jesus just said, "well the Pharisees are crooks, so let's get the H*ll out here!" :-)
:No. NO. Jesus set the example. Jesus was a "reformer" pure and simple. He did not abandon the ship like you guys. He did not abandon the Jewish nation, but he stayed and tried to help people, EVEN DIED TRYING TO HELP THEM. Just like Rick is doing now, with the H2O venture.
And he hung out with and ate with those who the "pious" wouldn't be seen with and he was criticized for his loving behaviour toward those "bad people" (read "apostates" in WT-speak). He set the example alright, too bad you don't follow it. As far as telling people to stay away from the Pharisees, isn't it in the bible somewhere to get away from the "unclean thing", and "stop touching it"? I don't recall seeing "stay in the unclean thing and clean it up as best you can". Correct me if I'm wrong.
:True, Jesus did not cause everyone to "repent." But that did not mean he was not successful from his Heavenly Father's viewpoint. You guys are not thinking at all! Really.
Actually considering the wake of confusion and hostility he left behind I should think he had some 'splainin' to do. Fortunately he also managed to get his message of love and forgiveness to a few humble, sane folk but to this day there are many who use his words to justify self-righteousness and arrogance.
:Compare Rick's example, the example of the "Reformers", to that of your own. Which would you say, is closer to the example that Jesus left --
(a) one who abandoned his people at the drop of a hat, after he sees corruption, (the way you and others have)
or,
(b) one who STAYED and tried to bring about REFORM IN THE FACE OF OBVIOUS CORRUPTION, like Jesus did for his spiritual brothers, and just like Rick and company are doing today. Now which example is closer to Jesus' example? Which?
:I think we know the answer to that question, don't we.
I suspect you think you know the answer to any and all questions but that is another post. To address the point you are trying to make, didn't Jesus basically say we could throw the old laws out the window and now there would be a "new covenant"? Sounds to me like he scrapped to old, corrupt religion in favor for a better one. His.
:Cygnus, instead of giving advice to people WITH REAL FAITH IN GOD, like many Jehovah's Witnesses on this forum, instead I think, given your present deplorable spiritual condition, you'd do better joining a forum for "agnostics," or one for "atheism", judging from the some of the words of wisdom that have come out of your mouth thus far on this forum. You'd be more at home there.
Actually, if JWs really had faith in God alone that would be one thing, however, for the most part it is the WT they have faith in. Even the baptismal vows require it so don't bother denying it.
:Well, now, how's that for a full display of "Christian Arrogance"?
Beautiful, thank you.
:ProofPositive
This is interestng to me, what is it that you think you have "proof positive" of? Heck, can you even convince me that The Creator is that egotistical God of the bible? Nevermind all the indefensible nonsense the WT puts out, since you claim to be strictly a follower of God, why don't you convince me of this? Can you?
Eagerly awaiting your enlightenment,
Julie