Posted by AF [AF] on November 07, 1999 at 05:17:54 {zExURjw8QA1EwaxRomAMdaOt1gg/Zk}:
In Reply to: **TravisJ45 Post II? posted by GregStafford on November 06, 1999 at 19:18:46:
Ah, I see that you've finally managed to show your face. Good for you! I'm glad that "Adam", whoever he may be, got through to you.
:: ... but I consider it extremely foolish to have boasted so magnificently about himself.
: So magnificently? Get real...
Sure, "so magnificently". You also pulled out the stops with "theocratic warfare". Of course, lying with a good purpose is not really lying, is it?
Let's take a look at your inflated boasts and use of "theocratic warfare" in your unfortunately deleted post:
::: I spent all day yesterday and most of the night reading through Greg Stafford's responses to AF.
Was this really true? Did "you" really spend the previous 24 hours re-reading all that boring stuff?
::: I am currently a member of a JW congregation
Whoa! Likely a grain of truth pops to the top.
::: but over the years I have had doubts about some things. I still do.
I'm sure you've had "doubts about some things". Haven't we all.
::: But as far as this debate between Greg and AF goes Greg wins.
Inflated boast number 1.
::: To me AF's arguments are not that strong
Inflated boast number 2.
::: and he comes across a bit arrogant.
As if you don't? Would you like to put it to the board to see who comes across in our discussions as most arrogant? As if any of that had anything to do with the meat of our discussion.
::: I am not sure if I am more impressed with Greg's patience
Inflated boast number 3.
::: or his ability to argue.
Inflated boast number 4.
::: I honestly cannot see the point in continuing this debate.
Inflated boast number 5. You've unilaterally declared victory.
::: I recommend AF step out of the debate circle and let someone like COJ debate Greg about something like the gentile times chronology.
Inflated boast number 6. You declared your opponent unworthy of continued debate because of your superiority.
::: Or maybe we can hear more about the blood issue.
Yes, let's. Your exposition in your book was pitiful. It needs to be examined by the light of truth.
::: I for one do not plan on reading through nearly 100 pages of this debate again!
Then I guess our debate will not continue. So which is it? Do you want to continue or not?
In the above I count six inflated boasts. I certainly claim that putting six inflated boasts in a single paragraph is boasting magnificently. Do you not agree? I would have a hard time doing it.
Back to the present post:
: The problem you are having, Alan, and which is going to come back and bite you real hard, is that, according to you:
:: As far as I'm aware, Greg made one and only one post under the name "TravisJ45".
Note the qualifier: "As far as I'm aware." If you look at your post under that deceptive name, you won't find links to anything for "GregStafford" or "TravisJ45". Nor have I found links or even comments about any 2nd post under the name TravisJ45. That does not mean that they never existed. It means, as I said, that I am not aware that they ever existed. I assume you can understand this detailed exposition.
So Greg, are you claiming that there was another top level post that was deleted but that hardly anyone saw? Perhaps the rogue administrator removed them to trip you up. Perhaps the CIA is in on this.
:: GREG:
:: You are in error.
Really. How can I be in error when I qualified my statement by "as far as I'm aware"? You made the same sort of logical mistake numerous times in your latest reply to me. But we'll deal with that in due time.
:: I made TWO Travis posts and the second one CLEARLY explained what I PURPOSEFULLY DID in the second. You have no excuse for not following up on this, for I explained this very thing to you in my email, which was sent to SEVERAL people, including yourself.
If you did this, then fine. Produce the proof. If you do, great. But as I explained to Adam, I only saved the top level posts, and since I read some 200 posts a day on H2O, I can hardly be expected to remember each one, any more than you can.
If you made a 2nd post under the name TravisJ45, then surely you can reproduce the gist of it here. I'm sure that at least a few people might have seen it and can corroborate your claims. But since as I explained, my daytime activities on H2O are limited by my need to put my job first (I assume you understand this) it is entirely possible that you put up a 2nd post under TravisJ45, which was then deleted by the rogue administrator before I had a chance to see it.
For your information, on that day I remember seeing your 3 posts early in the afternoon (EST), at which time I saved the 3 that I mentioned. After that I was online minimally the rest of the working day. When I got home, we went out to supper and to a movie, and then Jim Penton and I decided to look over the day's activities on H2O, specifically so that Jim could have a good laugh too. I looked for your TravisJ45 post and it was nowhere to be found. Later I found that some people were complaining about the removal. The next day I looked at the board and concluded that I needed to repost your silly post, which the rogue administrator had so stupidly removed. I also complained bitterly to H2O administration about the removal, which you can see for yourself by looking at the appropriate threads. Of course, they're protecting their own now.
: I don't know who or why BOTH posts were deleted,
Complain to H2O administration. So far they've remained silent about their rogue administrator. Nor will they explain why they have failed to discipline this administrator who so clearly violated express language in the FPP, which permitted you to post under a 2nd screen name. I'm sure you'll get no more response than most people do when questioning the Society about stupid things it has done.
: but when the second one shows up, and I hope it does,
According to ForumDirector1, it was deleted from the system immediately, so unless someone had the luck to see it and save it in the right time window before it disappeared, you're out of luck.
: then you will have some explaining to do, as if your replies to me, to date, were not enough.
I've explained everything I can. If your posts were deleted and you didn't save them, then according to H2O's administrators - tough luck. I'm not your Mommy and can't be expected to save all your work. The stuff I did save was purely by luck. I'm not sure whether you or I should be happy or sad that I saved it and reposted it. I could have remained silent and let you sweat even worse. Now you turn it around accuse me of dishonesty because you were too stupid to save your own posts. Pretty sad.
: Then there is the matter of your "two witnesses." Well, see my Enter Reality post for the problems with which you are there faced.
I would rather title that "Fantasy Revisited". My sources have requested that I not reveal them, since to do so would be detrimental to their health. Therefore I will not reveal anything that could lead you to the individuals involved. I simply wanted to discuss with you on the phone, since in this kind of situation one can accomplish far more in a short time than by email, what these sources said. I don't feel that it is appropriate to broadcast this information on H2O; that is why I requested the private discussion.
Apparently you're quite paranoid about contacting me by phone. I assure you that I cannot travel over phone lines via caller ID to haunt you; I don't even have caller ID. I don't care enough about who calls me to have it. Nor do I generally record any phone conversations. The only one I ever did was when I had to deal with elders who wanted to DF me. I don't consider our conversations worthy of recording, so you have nothing to worry about. Once again, you can call me at 914-627-2672 anytime. If I'm in bed, then allow me a few seconds to wake up.
: You people actually believe I only posted ONE Travis post and deliberately tried to deceive ALL of you! No wonder you are so out of your minds with misinformation.
Maybe you did and maybe you didn't. You can thank the rogue H2O administrator for your frustration. I am similarly frustrated. In the meantime you can post the gist of your supposed 2nd Travis post so people can get some idea of whether you're telling the truth or just blowing wind.
: H2O amdinistration, can you PLEASE bring back the second Travis post, or at least acknowledge that TWO Travis posts were removed?
Didn't you read what I said to poor Adam? They stupidly deleted it off the system and there is no way to recover it.
I would think this would teach you a bit of a lesson. You have here an overzealous administrator who tried to "protect" you and his perceived JW interests by performing extreme censorship. Not a single H2O administrator could back him up, and in fact whatever ones commented agreed that his actions were stupid. But has he been called to account? No. Has he apologized? No. This is not much different from the Society censoring your activities on the Internet. I hope that one of these days you'll learn. I think that day is not far off.
AF