# ***Especially For Rick

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Posted by Cygnus [Cygnus] on November 07, 1999 at 01:46:52 {zExURjw8QAqVy0fc8XLcL4bdfUTIaI}:

In Reply to: **Especially For Rick posted by ProofPositive on November 06, 1999 at 17:53:50:

PP

: I am "arrogant" because I rightfully defend Mr. Rick for his vigilance and determination to continue to look to God

Who determines that your defense of Rick is "rightful"? I think Rick is an okay guy (if not somewhat paranoid and credulous). I think it is arrogant of you to even consider that Rick needs you to "defend" him in any way.

: (and not YOU and your anti-religious,

I am not anti-religious. I am anti- certain religionists, however.

: Bible hating,

I do not hate the Bible! Where do you get that idea?

: Bible criticizing constituents present on this board) for the real answers to the issues face by all Jehovah's Witnesses.

The real answer is simple: Watchtower leaders do not speak for God any more than I do. And, they can't be trusted. What someone is to do with those facts are their own personal decision and responsibility.

: Man, all you guys did was JUMP SHIP...anybody can do that! That's the easy way out.

You're quite mistaken. I was a "reformer" for several months.

: You don't get "brownie points" for that.

Uninterested in such.

: Moreover, is that what Jesus did?

Nope. But, I believe it is important to note that Jesus' alleged affairs are no more special to take note of an use as an example than others faced with similar circumstances as 1st century Judaism and 20th century JWism.

: Jesus was a "reformer" pure and simple. He did not abandon the ship like you guys. He did not abandon the Jewish nation, but he stayed and tried to help people, EVEN DIED TRYING TO HELP THEM.

Jesus (assuming his existence) was a failure, sorry. I honestly believe it was Paul (or someone who taught Paul) who invented the entire "ransom" concept. Jesus had political aspirations that fell quite short. In fact, he probably got lucky when John the Baptizer was removed from the scene. But even Acts indicates that Jesus' "ministry" garnered very few followers (120 to be exact at Pentecost).

: But that did not mean he was not successful from his Heavenly Father's viewpoint. You guys are not thinking at all! Really.

Really. So you have first hand knowledge that although Jesus pretty much failed (and didn't fulfill any specific and nontrivial OT prophecies of the Messiah), somehow he still gained favor with an invisible deity who doesn't speak to anyone any more?

Who's really not thinking here?

: Which would you say, is closer to the example that Jesus left

Since I have no personal affinity for Jesus or the Bible, this is irrelevant to me and merely serves as an emotional crutch for you to lean upon so as to trick yourself into wrongly classifying me and my activity on H2O.

: (a) one who abandoned his people at the drop of a hat, after he sees corruption, (the way you and others have)

This is what I mean. No JW who learns the truth about "the truth" does this. None that I know of anyway. I certainly didn't.

: one who STAYED and tried to bring about REFORM IN THE FACE OF OBVIOUS CORRUPTION, like Jesus did for his spiritual brothers, and just like Rick and company are doing today. Now which example is closer to Jesus' example? Which?

You aren't Jesus. Neither is Friend, or Greg Stafford, or anyone else who'd like to see reforms in the WTS. The only way the WTS will reform is when the conservatives in the GB die.

: Cygnus, instead of giving advice to people WITH REAL FAITH IN GOD, like many Jehovah's Witnesses on this forum, instead I think, given your present deplorable spiritual condition, you'd do better joining a forum for "agnostics," or one for "atheism", judging from the some of the words of wisdom that have come out of your mouth thus far on this forum. You'd be more at home there.

Ad hominems worthy of a Christian jerk.

: Well, now, how's that for a full display of "Christian Arrogance"?

Totally characteristic of a Christian Arrogant. Thanks for the superb display.

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