# **Greg posted an "apologia"

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Posted by Rick [Rick] on November 09, 1999 at 00:39:36 {4Hfg918T5g7mY4XD8K2cFMFBt36Xyc}:

In Reply to: *Greg posted an "apologia" posted by Farkel on November 08, 1999 at 22:34:15:

> I was stopped COLD by the first part, and Will
comment on that.

I was stopped COLD by what you said (the middle part), but I'll then give you the benefit of doubt that, tired as you said you were and on your way to bed, you accidentally put your foot in your mouth when you proceeded to say:

> Dwight D. Eisenhower to Adolph Hitler: APOLOGIZE for killing 50,000,000 people.
>
> Adolph to Ike: I don't believe I did anything wrong, so what you say doesn't count.

Suppose Mr. Hitler had said instead, as you suggested in the latter part I'll quote next, suppose he had said the following:

"I'm sorry. I screwed up. I'm human. I'm arrogant."

Do I hear the word 'disingenous' as a possible descriptor? If Mr. Hitler had won the war, then issued a formal apology like this, even patting wet eyes with a hankerchief emblazoned with his trademark swastika emblem, would that have changed your view of the Monster? Would anything he could have said? Is that even a relevant analogy or rather so far off in left field that its ridiculous to even consider as an analogy?

> This analogy is off-the-wall of course,

Uh, no further comment.

> but it serves to illustrate that it doesn't matter SQUAT whether the person who is
under-the-gun BELIEVES what he did was wrong or not. The facts rule, and if that person's accusers present facts that that person did, indeed commit a wrong, then the accussed personal opinions are just that, and they don't matter in face
of the evidence.

True, but the Hitler analogy was pointless because there is no comparison between Greg Stafford and Adolph Hitler or even those on the GB for that matter! That's sick to even go there, and imply such a thing. It diminishes the terrible acts of mass murder committed by Hitler and his henchmen. You know what "hyperbole" means? Look it up, and then consider that using Hitler as hyperbole to get across a point is overkill to such a gross extent that it actually backfires on you, and hurts a perhaps valid point you're otherwise trying to make.

> Greg merely needs to say, "I'm sorry. I screwed up. I'm human. I'm arrogant." To do less would allow people to form less of an opinion of him that he would like us to have.

Greg just said he did very recently, and as I too have to get some sleep, I'll look for that post in the morning.

Pleasant dreams. Really you wouldn't be such a bad sounding guy if you would limit your hyperbole to something somewhat equivalent. Like, who in history has led lots of people to die for the cause of faith with the sincere belief they were leading people in the right direction? No, not even Jim Jones of Jonestown, for the man was obviously not only a fornicator who insiders said admitted to doing wrong, but someone who had forced at gunpoint the drinking of cyanide laced Cool Aid. (The GB have been proven to admit any personal motivation, and never forced anyone to avoid a transfusion even though one might argue many were "coerced," but that's not a comparison to Jim Jones.) So, to continue, who? David Koresh, perhaps? Even he was shown by insiders to be living a double-life, using women for the purpose of fornication, so again, not a valid comparison.

The fact is that the Watchtower Society is a new paradigm that defies comparison (whether or not history judges it as good or evil when all is said and done). It doesn't have good analogies, so analogies such as comparing it to Jonestown are pointless. It's something new, and unique, and if anything future organizations might get compared by way of analogy to the ancient Watchtower Society of the 20th century, a long time ago.

Why can't we just simply call a spade a spade, call them on their errors and applaud them on the good they do? Then and only then will true reform take place.

Then again, I've always recognized that H2O is not only a place for baptized JWs to express their thoughts openly and freely, but also a place where those who were deeply scarred by the organization, like you, can heal -- which is what qualifies you as one of the many "other interested ones" who are in the process of healing thanks to God's love. This site was intended to be many things to many people, and help bridge the gap between fear and the truth.

Rick

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- ***Greg posted an "apologia" Farkel 13:32:38 11/09/99 (0)

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