Posted by Wrong facts [Bibleman] on November 03, 1999 at 16:45:21 {eZOTANvCI6MRXA6xmpscslyACFuF8c}:
In Reply to: ******PASSOVER FOR BIBLEMAN posted by DaJahVeu on November 03, 1999 at 11:38:06:
Hi Da,
Here are your misrepresented facts and my comments.
THE FACTS:
>>1) The Days of unleavened bread arrived. Luke 22:7
Correct, only you didn't finish this fact. This is the day the lambs were sacrificed at 3:00 p.m., the time called "between the two evenings" by the orthodox Jews which Jesus was and the time that Josephus historically dates the lambs were sacrificed at the temple which was required by everyone in Jerusalem. Those sacrifices were from the "ninth to the eleventh" hours. That harmonizes with Jesus' death at that hour. Are you saying that Josephus was just making this up and a liar? This is the CONFIRMED customary time and date for the lambs to be sacrificed.
So please finish this time off. The festival of unfermented cakes arrived, the day the lambs were to be sacrificed and so this is NISAN 14TH, and it is morning when Jesus now sends his disciples out to prepare for a meal that would be eaten that evening. Okay, go on..
>>2) Jesus told his disciples to prepare the Passover for them, v8.
Correct. This was IN THE MORNING of Nisan 14th, the day the lambs are customarily sacrificed beginning at 3:00 p.m. at the temple. Go on.
>>3) They ate the Passover together that evening beginning the 14th, v14.
Sorry, this verse says NOTHING about the DATE being the 14th. It just says, "the hour came" and they ate. We know from other references in the gospels that it was now after sundown on the first day of unfermented cakes and it was now the sabbath Nisan 15th by some reckoning. The mandate for no leaven was on and thus the Passover meal was now eaten with unfermented cakes. Thus the text does NOT give the date, whether Nisan 14th or Nisan 15th. Of course, if you are changing the date at sunset, this is now Nisan 15th, the day AFTER the lambs were sacrificed. Okay, I'm with you. Please continue.
>>4)They went to the garden where Jesus was later arrested and taken before the High Priest.v54
Yes, this was after Midnight on Nisan 15th, a sabbath day. Go on. I'm following you.
5)Jesus went before Pilate, 23:1.
Yes, according to John it was just before Noon, that is "de-early" which means just before the "early" watch, in this case the early evening watch. John 18:28 says: "Then they led Jesus from Caiphas to the governor's palace. IT WAS EARLY BUT-EARLY." So John is giving us the specific time of his presentation to Pilate on Saturday, Nisan 15th which is just before Noon (Noon began the "early evening" watch). Okay, I'm with you go on. It's Saturday just before Noon.
6) Pilate sent him to Herod, v7.
Correct. Probably later that Saturday afternoon, which was still a sabbath day.
7)Herod sent him back to Pilate, v11.
Yes, he did. But not until Wednesday, Nisan 19th in time for his trial at Noon. That is, at the sixth hour on "but-preparation for passover" (i.e. the afternoon immediately before preparation for Passover which day began at "sunset.")
NOTE: NO DAYS ELAPSED HERE, ONLY A MATTER OF HOURS.
Sorry but at least FIVE DAYS ELAPSED here. Just because the Bible doesn't tell you every single detail of every single minute of what happened over these five days doesn't mean these days didn't elapse.
You must realize at this point that John 19:14 is really, for the sake of clarity giving us the specific DATE and TIME of the trial. The trial was at Noon, the "sixth hour."
And it was the afternoon just before "preparation for passover." That term simply means the next day which was in a few hours beginning at nightfall was "preparation for passover" which was the day before a sabbath day for passover. Since Passover is held on the sabbath day of Nisan 15th, and there are only two sabbaths days of passover, Nisan 15th and Nisan 21st, this must be the afternoon before preparation day of Nisan 20th in preparation for the sabbath of the 21st. We know this because Jesus had to be in the grave for three nights before he rose on Saturday night and therefore, he has to die on a Thursday afternoon. Nisan 20th is a Thursday in 33CE.
Plain and simple. So the Bible doesn't really have to fill in every day with idle details if it doesn't want to if it gives you the SPECIFIC DATE AND TIME of a certain event to make it clear when it happened. John 19:14's reference to the sixth hour on "de-preparation for passover" could only be Wednesday at Noon, Nisan 19th, since it was already Nisan 15th when Jesus got arrested.
"Preparation for passover" refers to either Nisan 14th or Nisan 20th. The only choice here is Nisan 20th.
Sorry.
Cheers,
Bibleman