Posted by Bibleman [Bibleman] on November 03, 1999 at 03:08:48 {eZOTANvCI6MRXA6xmpscslyACFuF8c}:
In Reply to: ***Heavens were opened posted by Cygnus on November 02, 1999 at 14:06:52:
Hi Cy,
Obviously there are some variations on the "70 weeks" since the 20th of Artaxerxes causes a problem with the usual 483 solar years. But the most common concept I've found is a fulfillment of 483 solar years from the word to go forth to rebuild Jerusalem, whether it works out exactly and whether or not it is linked with the 20th of Artaxerxes or the 1st of Cyrus. The Catholic Duouay Bible tries to date it with the rebuilding of the walls in 455/445 BCE, and of course, you have several different takes on exactly when Jesus was born and/or baptized. So that was just a general comment and also a matter of record.
As far as his prehuman existence, most of Christendom thinks Jesus and God are the same person so that speaks strongly of a prehuman existence. Also a favorite scripture tha says "God gave his only begotton son to the world" and especially John 1:1 that says that the Word was with God in the beginning certainly establishes by any doubt that the apostles understood Jesus had a prehuman existence.
Plus several scriptures such as Philippians 2:7 which says "No, but he emptied himself and took a slave's form and came to be in the likeness of men. More than that when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient a fa as death, yes, death on a torture stake." Seem like Paul clearly understood about Jesus' prehuman existence here, and as a spirit angel at that.
JWs think Jesus pre-existed as Michael, the Archangel, all of Christendom in general thinks he preexisted as God. So that's the majority of Christendom. Thus I don't understand why this would even be a critical point. No one I know of seems to deny he had a prehuman existence of one form or another. ??? In fact, I think that point is fairly fundamental in the NT.
What about Jesus' prayer that he just wanted the position he had before he came to the earth?
So the NT definitely is pre-human existence oriented. I don't quite see how you can get around so many scriptures that directly imply, suggest to confirm that.
Anyway, my double-take 2 pennies...
Cheers,
Bibleman