# **RE: Stafford Issues

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Posted by Bethel dejavu [2bithonky] on November 04, 1999 at 08:27:42 {yxewwqp4aAdhQe9/FouQQNyTO0grzY}:

In Reply to: *RE: Stafford Issues posted by AF on November 03, 1999 at 23:45:58:

I agree with AF on the issue of honesty and Greg. Total deja vu back to 1979-1980 when Lyman Swingle pulled a cowardly act by letting Franz and Dunlap take the heat, while he himself was of the same views regarding 1914, the f&ds, etc. I would sit at the head of the table every morning during this time and have to listen to each GB member (Schroeder, Barry, Poetzinger, Kline, and Barber) week by week use names like "spiritual fornicators," "mentally diseased," "liars," and "worms" in reference to those who were leaving. Yet these same ones had their own damning doubts. Swingle tucked tale and lashed out at the "apostates." I went to the secret Bethel elders meetings during this time and wrote down everything I could, which statements I later printed in my 1981 tract, "What Happened At The World Headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses in the Spring of 1980?" long before Ray wrote his book or any other JW told his story publicly. We have all gone our own way in terms of association, interpretation, etc. but you can see how people like AF, Franz, myself, Tom Cabeen, and many others still do not allow our own personal beliefs to color the facts just because we want to preserve our arses.
Take note that when you have people you look up to as mature men in the "body of Christ" and they fall to the pressure of other leaders to be loyal followers of men, the right decision is to stick to what you know the Word of God is saying and what your heart is telling you regarding truth and falsehood; the path you take is, to me, a measure of the man.
Compare the style of reasoning and argumentation in Ray Franz' book with that of Greg Stafford and Firpo Carr and others who are the self-styled Watchtower apologists. Style also reveals the character of a man in the end. Truth and honesty stand out as simple and uncomplicated in comparison to the flip-flop nature of circular apologetics. A person who loves the truth is willing to go wherever that truth leads him, even though it will cost him in terms of friends, position, authority and respectability. Doing so has cost me plenty in terms of the same since 1980, but I could not live with myself if I was a respecter of persons. If you lie to yourself, the mechanics of it will sooner or later be obvious to others, assuming they are not equally desirous of lying to themselves. If they are as well, you now have a following, and the more converts you get, the more it seems to bolster the "reality" of your facade. - RW

- What Happened at Bethel-1980

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- ***RE: Stafford Issues Randy Watters 09:02:44 11/04/99 (0)

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