# *****PASSOVER FOR BIBLEMAN

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Posted by Little polish#2 [Bibleman] on November 03, 1999 at 10:54:08 {eZOTANvCI6MRXA6xmpscslyACFuF8c}:

In Reply to: ****PASSOVER FOR BIBLEMAN posted by DaJahVeu on November 03, 1999 at 03:15:38:

Hi Da,

I think you're beginning to see things from my standpoint.

Plain and simple, if Passover is eaten on the sabbath day of the first day of unfermented cakes then Jesus was arrested on Nisan 15th. And if so, there is no way he could have died that day, so Nisan 20th is the next day of preparation, thus he must have died that day. That's the whole logical argument.

But I agree, the way the gospels are written, it seems you can compress everything into one day. But here is some "polish" to help you see that there are many hints this is not the same day.

John 19:14 says the trial was a the "sixth hour" which is Noon. Mark 15:25 says Jesus was impaled at the "third hour" which is 9 o'clock.

Hello?

How could Jesus be impaled allegedly at 9 o'clock a.m. and then get down off the torture stake and get back on trial at Noon? It doesn't work.

Then we know it got dark at Noon until 3:00 p.m.
So how is it that Jesus was supposed to be on the torture stake at Noon when John says his trial was still going on at Noon? It doesn't work.

Now that should have been a hint that more than one day is involved. That's why the concept that the events seem to unfold all in one day according to the gospels is not accurate when you actually look at the critical details. That discrepancy cannot be fixed in the one-day scenario.

But that should have been a HINT that more than one day is involved.

Then think about the logical, reasonable timing of events. You have got two magistrates involved who definitely don't want Jesus to be condemned. And there are FOUR DIFFERENT TRIALS!

None of them begin before daybreak!

Yet he is impaled by 9:00 a.m., the "third hour."

So let's see what has to happen in just about 3 hours.

First, Jesus has to be taken to the Sanhedrin right after sunrise where people accuse him. They have to get their stories straight before condemning him officially before taking him before Pilate. How long would that take?

Then Jesus goes to Pilate. They accuse him there. Pilate questions Jesus. And there is some downtime because the guards decide to dress him up with a robe and humliate him at which time Pilate shows him with the crown and robe on to the crowd.
They get upset and in the process of claiming he has caused trouble throughout the land beginning in Galilee, Pilate discovers he is from Galilee and so sends him to Herod, who happens to be in town. Now how long do you think that took?

Now he is before Herod, who happens to be in town, who examines him with "many words". But Herod wasn't expecting him. Was he holding open court between 6 and 9:00 a.m.? How long do you think the trial with Herod took on such short notice? And still, the ever fun-loving guards found time to dress Jesus up again and tease him. But Herod found Jesus innocent and then sent him back to Pilate. And on this day, both Pilate and Herod became good friends. How long were they talking about this situation together before Pilate finally began Jesus' fourth and last trial? Now remember, it is still not 9:00 a.m. yet.

So finally after Pilate and Herod become friends, the trial starts at NOON! (See it doesn't work!)..according to John 19:14. But let's just ignore the Noon reference for now. His fourth trial starts. He's condemned after trying to get him off. And after that the guards dress Jesus up again. Apparently two other people are condemned. Barabbas is released. Then Jesus is taken out to Calvary, needing assistance by Simon of Syrene at which time he is impaled by 9 o'clock a.m.

Now. Is it more reasonable to think these events could have taken place over several days, or just in three hours, with a huge conflict in the time of the last trial said to be a Noon compared to his being impaled at 9 o'clock a.m.?

So the actual account doesn't work for one day, even though the gospels are very brief about the details. The Noon time trial versus the 9 o'clock impalement should have told us these were two different days at least.

So there is plenty of events and times that don't work for a one-day scenario, which all work out PERFECTLY when Jesus dies on Nisan 20th.

And basically and simply that is that Jesus was arrested on Nisan 15th, after sunrise he was taken to the Sanhedrin and accused formally. At "de-early" which means before-early, that is, just before the "early" evening watch which began at Noon, is when Pilate first saw Jesus. It wasn't in the morning. Pilate always dealt with the people around midday, not in the wee hours of the morning. So that right there shows a critical conflict once you know about the specific use of these timing terms.

So Jesus was likely first tried from Noon until into the afternoon after which time Pilate discovered he was from Galilee and sent him to Herod.

Herod likely wasn't expecting him and set up another trial the next day or even later. Jesus was eligible to possibly be released even if condemned on a certain day that week in honor of the festival, and if that was to take place a day before the sabbath of Nisan 21st, then Herod had a couple of days. It is assumed that Herod tried Jesus during this period from the time Jesus was sent over to him until Wednesday morning.

That is the morning that Herod and Pilate got to be "friends" and did the magistrate gossip thing about how Jesus was being framed by those jealous of him, etc. They both agreed Jesus was innocent and they saw through the schemes. They were not in a hurry to condemn Jesus. So they took a long time trying him.

So here we are at "de-preparation for passover, the hour was the sixth." That is, preparation began a new day so "de-preparation" meant the afternoon just before "preparation for passover." Thus this last trial was that afternoon at Noon, on Wednesday, Nisan 19th, the day they scheduled to release a condemned prisoner that week.

So after the trial, likely in the evening, when the workers were leaving the fields, since it was harvest time, one of them, Simon of Syrene, was employed to help Jesus take his torture stake to Calvary. Thus when Mark says Jesus was impaled at the "ninth hour" it was the ninth hour of NIGHT, at 9:00 p.m.

Thus the accused were to hang on the torture stakes basically for at least one day or close to it. Preparation began that evening after sundown (technically at nightfall). So it was on this preparation day for passover that he was imapled at 9:00 p.m.

Note that "preparation" usually is a Friday which is the day before a sabbath. But since they also called their special holidays, such as the seventh day of unfermented cakes "sabbaths" days as well, they had to stipulate that this was a special "preparation for passover". That is, Passover had two sabbath days and the 21st was one of them. So this was preparation before the 21st. These special sabbath days are also called "HIGH" sabbaths. So that is also recorded in scripture that this was not the normal Saturday sabbath, but a "high" sabbath, that is a special holiday sabbath. In this case, Nisan 21st.

So Jesus was on the torture stake from 9 p.m. until that following day at Noon when it got dark, after which three hours later he died at 3:00 p.m.

So you see, NO CONFLICT! Trial at Noon on Wednesday, Nisan 19th, impalement that night at the third hour at 9:00 p.m. And the following day at Noon, which is now Thursday, it got dark from Noon until three when he died.

Then he was in the grave for those following three nights; Thursday night, Friday night, and Saturday night. He rose Saturday night before 3:00 a.m.

Then he appeared for 40 days.

Note this does not conflict with Pentecost. Because if he rose on the 16th, there would have been ten days from his ascension until Pentecost.
But if he actually was rose a week later, then there were just three days from his ascension until Pentecost. And that makes more sense!

That's because the disciples left the Mount of Olives where Jesus ascended and immediately went to the upper room.

Of course, sinse Pentecost is only one special sabbath day, a Sunday, this meant the Jews needed to be in Jerusalem only for a long weekend, not a ten-day vacation. They certainly would have been stretching it if they were in that upper room for ten days. But it is more reasonable if it were just for the long weekend, over three days, immediately following Jesus' ascension.

So even Pentecost, of course, makes more sense.

JESUS FULFILLS PASSOVER LAMB:
And as far as Jesus being the Passover Lamb. He still is that. Since it is all symbolic. Likely that is why Passover was made a full week's celebration so Jesus could actually eat the Passover with his disciples on Nisan 15th, and then symbolically die at the "ninth" hour later that week.

Now you're quite bright on this. I noted that you understand that Jesus is supposed to fulfill the wave offering of Nisan 16th. This also was symbolic.

So I understand the crystal clear symbolism of having Jesus die on Nisan 14th to fulfill when the lambs were sacrificed. But it simply didn't happen that way. Instead, what that original ritual represented was fulfilled symbolically later that week. In no way does Jesus dying on Nisan 20th disqualify him from being the Paschal Lamb fulfillment. He's still the Paschal Lamb and every other sacrifice that he symbolized in some way. He didn't have to die precisely on that day to fulfill that since it was symbolic.

If Jesus was supposed to DIRECTLY AND LITERALLY fulfill Passover, they would have killed him at 3:00 p.m., took him off the torture stake, roasted him and ate his flesh and drunk his blood. That would have been the literal fulfillment.

But since that didn't happen and the wine and bread were symbolic, we know Jesus was still the Passover Lamb, no matter what date he actually died.

But of note, it must have been significant that the lambs had to be sacrificed "between the two evenings" which is around 3:00 p.m. per the orthodox Jews. And that was specifically fulfilled by Jesus when he died at that time as well.

And that is another huge hint that the lambs were sacrificed specifically at 3:00 p.m. as Josephus indicates they were. IF Jesus had to fulfill that specific timing, then that would require the lambs to be sacrificed at 3:00 p.m. on Nisan 14th; and that means, as well, that after sundown, it became Nisan 15th, the first day of unfermented cakes.

Now can you see, all considered, how Nisan 20th just rings true, true, true? And how wrong Nisan 14th actually is, since you have to ignore so much and twist so much?

Any comments now?

I know it's PAINFUL! It is. And there is even more. But once everything is considered, there seems to be no other alternative and Nisan 20th wins out over Nisan 14th.

Cheers,
Bibleman

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