# **RE: Stafford Issues

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Posted by Gedanken [Gedanken] on November 04, 1999 at 07:51:10 {yxewwqp4aAHdgEG/iekYGxDfYXLgH2}:

In Reply to: *RE: Stafford Issues posted by AF on November 03, 1999 at 23:45:58:

AF,

I second your comments. The issue is not about Greg Stafford per se but about a person who has come to be thought of as the primary JW scholar. His book is a palliative and an excuse for many un- or under-educated JWs in the sense that they can seek false comfort in the thought that "someone has answered the charges of the apostates." Given Stafford's new edition, which contains a chapter on blood, it could be argued that the issue of Stafford's credibility involves lives.

I agree very much with Friend that the issues in Stafford's book can, and should, be debated apart from discussions about Stafford's personality. However, few JWs can see the intellectual dishonesty, perhaps naivety, in Stafford's book. It is almost impossible to explain to them that it is real and that his book is a total snow job. In the fantasy world of JWs, in which even words lose their meaning, there are few who can step up to the plate and debate someone like Stafford. Thus, when the author reveals his true colors it is important that this not be covered up. This is one thing that can cause a genuinely honest JW to be at least willing to examine the issues. It provides not the coup de grace for Stafford's arguments but only a possible entree into their examination.

Actually, I had finally concluded that Stafford was either a total charlatan or a complete idiot yesterday, even before his ridiculous "TravisJ45" posts. This was when he admitted (re: 1975) that "certain things said from the podium disturbed him." Not enough, apparently, as to be worth inclusion in his book. Can you imagine any historian with an iota of respect for the facts or truth behaving like that? Only a JW could argue (as Stafford did in his "last post") that they were defending the truth after having just told a pack of lies.

Stafford's arguments in Chapter 9 of his book would not merit a passing grade in English 101. Unfortunately, negative statements about his book are seen as being a form of "persecution" by many JWs. I suppose his deceitful lying and his vainglorious chest beating about his imaginary victory is yet another form of theocratic warfare. Out of the heart's abundance so does the mouth speak.

Basically, this episode disgusts me. The only responsible thing to do is either to restore the posts or for H2O to include in its archives a copy of Stafford's posts (if anyone has them) which are "certified" as being accurate by those of us who saw them. Nothing else will do.

What may now happen to Greg is unfortunate, although in the long run it might turn out to be good for him. But much more is at stake than the "responsibilities" of a single dishonest JW "scholar." His writings actively contribute to lives being lost or wrecked. I would hope that other reformers here besides Friend would see that. Rank & file JWs are entitled to know the type of person who is playing the role of defender of the faith, really of the Society, for them.

Gedanken

Follow Ups:

- ***RE: Stafford Issues AF 09:00:27 11/04/99 (1)
  - ****RE: Stafford Issues re: EdmundGruss 09:24:30 11/04/99 (0)

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