# To AF about GS

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Posted by JefferyMSchwehm [JefferyMSchwehm] on November 03, 1999 at 21:14:19 {eZOTANvCI67mGcjg8rgIMdud7girzQ}:

Hi Alan-

I read Greg's response to you and I must say that I was disappointed with his defense. He is very good at trying to avoid the issues. I have found that with this type of JW apologist one must be very careful about how you word questions otherwise this type of JW apologist will take you to task for the way you worded a question and use this to sidestep the big issues.

Greg answered you with the following:

"In answer to your new question, Alan, I see no reason to reject the Governing Body as a group of representatives from those substituting for Christ, who are guided by God in accordance with their correct interpretation of His Word, in dispensing healthful words of truth to mankind, and particularly to their Christian brothers and sisters, and thus they do
indeed have a position of spiritual oversight. They are “empowered” to the extent that they act in harmony with what God has revealed in His Word."

What Greg says above is what most Christians from other denominations will say about their Pastors or any other leader in their congregation. The proof as to whether they really believe this is demonstrated in what they do when their leader teaches something that is not Biblical.

Greg then adds: "When and if they [meaning the GB] should stray from this source, they are acting on their own power, not with God’s."

The question that I would like to see answered by Greg or any other JW is whether they have ever recognized a situation where the Governing Body has strayed from the Bible and acted according to their own power? If they have, what criteria did Greg or other JWs use to discover this and what steps can Greg or other JWs take to help correct the situation or are Greg and other JWs required to follow the Governing Body even when what they teach is not Biblical?

You see in most Protestant denominations there are steps that a congregation can take to rein in an out of control Pastor or leader. These steps are spelled out specifically in the church constitution. Usually the body of elders of the church along with the church council can discipline a Pastor who over steps his boundaries and they can even remove him from his position if he necessary. Can the JWs do this if the Governing Body over steps its boundaries and insists on teaching something that is not biblical? Or must they obey or face sanctions if they disobey?

I think Greg may have answered this question for us when he got that message from his P.O. and "decided" to stop posting here.

On another point, Greg constantly said that the JWs are an extension of the 1st century church and he seems to despise post-biblical creeds.

Post-biblical creeds are just an expression of the faith of those individuals who wrote them based on how they interpreted the Bible. When JWs and other groups say that they are not bound to creeds like some of the mainline Christian denominations (I think some baptist and pentecostal denominations also say that they are creedless and just believe what the Bible says), these claims mean nothing since all groups must interpret the Bible and if the "creedless" groups write any kind of Bible study aids they are doing essentially the same thing that the guys who wrote the creeds did. So, this whole argument is meaningless.

Secondly, if one reads the writings of the early church fathers it is clear that their beliefs are very different from those of the JWs. I am not aware of any of the early church fathers who lived during the time of the apostles or very near to the time of the apostles who believed in a two class system of salvation like the JWs.

Also, when one reads Eusebius' history of the church, many interesting things come to light. For example, the early church argued about which books of the new testament to include in the Bible canon. These books were not agreed upon until well after the apostles died. If what the JWs and other groups say is true, then the book that they now use to "prove" that they are the only "true" christians was compiled by a bunch of apostate clergyman of Christendom!

Therefore, the whole argument that some modern religious group is the only group that is the "true" or reorganized Church of Jesus Christ now because the true faith was lost after the time of the apostles is meaningless since the book they try to base this conclusion on did not even exist in anyway close to its current form until about 2 or 3 hundred years after all the apostles died. Of course, the Bible that the JWs use today did not exist in its current form until the protestant reformation when the reformers rejected many of the apocryphal(sp?) books.

These arguments and claims that Greg makes are pretty lame and are very common. The Mormons make similar claims about themselves. I was hoping for something more original. :(

Jeff S.

Jeff S.

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