Posted by Rational [trw] on November 01, 1999 at 18:08:33 {2gTL9dbN6kYgCUWv3.1cm0FN8UzOHE}:
In Reply to: **********Discussion summaries posted by Friend on November 01, 1999 at 15:46:18:
Friend,
Now you are resorting to dishonesty. You said:
I mention that all this is an aside because you commented that Armageddon is beyond that for which we need a sign so then it must be beyond "the conclusion of the system" for which Jesus gave a sign.No, that is NOT what I said. Here is what I said (see the actual context for corroboration of what the "it" was):
For its fulfillment to be part of "the sign" it [=the separating] could not come at the very end of the "conclusion of the system of things" (i.e., at or after Armageddon), since by then the "sign" would have fulfilled its purpose--to be a prelude and precursor to the end!You still have not rebutted that point, nor this one:
Your mistake is in equating the expression "the time in which we are living" with the expression "the conclusion of the system of things." They are not equivalent. The writer did not use them equivalently; he used the expression "the time in which we are living" as a subset of the "conclusion of the system of things," a fact proven by the addendum "and it is fast running out". The time period in question would not still be "running out" when the separating of sheep and goats takes place, now would it? It would have already run out, a point which I have made repeatedly and which you have repeatedly ignored.Rather than deal with those arguments, you have merely introduced a new confusion: now you are also equating the separating with the judgment meted out following the separating:
the Society’s teachings today do not put off the fulfillment of the sheep/goat/judgment any later than it did in 1984. In both cases judgment was meted out at Armageddon.We were not talking about "the judgment" at Armageddon. The referent of the this whole thread was not the timing of the "judgment" meted out--it was the timing of the "separation" of the sheep and goats, which obviously must precede the meting out of judgment. That the judgment meted out to the sheep and goats would take place at Armageddon has never been in question here; the issue has only been the timing of the "separating" of sheep and goats prior to that judgment. You seem to be attempting the same kind of "sleight of hand" the Society itself engages in. You are quickly losing credibility with me, Friend.
Enough evidence has been presented for any interested party to decide whether the Society's 1995 change in doctrine amounted to the very same "serious mistake" it had warned of in 1984. I will not be spending any more time trying to clarify for you what should (and no doubt IS) obvious to you by now.
Rational